Beck On Family’s Home Burning Down As Firefighters Watched:

[Joanne98]

As ThinkProgress reported yesterday, last week South Fulton Fire Department firefighters from Obion, Tennessee, stood by and watched as the Cranick family’s home burned down — which also lead to the death of their three dogs and a cat — because their services were available by subscription only, and the family had not paid the $75 fee. Immediately, right-wing writers at the conservative movement’s bulkhead magazine, The National Review, defended the county and argued that firefighting should not be a public service available to all, regardless of ability to pay.

Now, yet another major conservative has joined the defense. On his radio show this afternoon, leading right-wing talker Glenn Beck and his producer Pat Gray openly mocked the Cranick family. After playing a news clip explaining the situation, Gray adopted a southern drawl and began to mock Gene Cranick’s explanation of how the county’s firefighters refused to help his family.

Beck then went on to complain that “those who are just on raw feeling are not going to understand” that the county’s actions in refusing to assist the Cranicks were justified. He explained that America will be having the “argument” about the case of the Cranicks and that it will go “nowhere if you go onto ‘compassion, compassion, compassion, compassion’ or well, ‘they should’ve put it out, what is the fire department for?’” Beck then went on to say that the Cranicks would be “spongeing off their neighbors” if the fire department had helped them put out their fire. The radio host concluded his rant by saying “this is the kind of stuff that’s going to have to happen, we are going to have to have these kinds of things”:

GRAY: (mocking Cranick’s accent) Even tho’ I hadn’t paid mah seventy five dollahs I thought dey’d put it out. <...> I wanted ‘em to put it out, but dey didn’t put it out.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/10/05/beck-producer-mock-firefighters/

[SargeUNN]

1. now who said this? BECK?

dang seems I have heard this stuff somewhere else. Let me see where did I see or read similar stuff. Dang my memory.

[Occulus]

24. Yup.

Like I said in a post yesterday, our tent has become far too large, and the DLCers and conserva"dems" are shitting all over its base.

We should have told those schmucks they weren't welcome in the first place, and if they didn't like being disillusioned with the crazy the GOP has become and didn't like not being welcome among us they could start their own "pragmatic" "moderate" "centrist" party.

We didn't do that. We suicidally welcomed them with open arms. This is the result.

[TexasObserver]

61. Yes, Glenn Beck. Do you wonder if he posts here?

[Junkdrawer]

2. Beck's comments were mirrored by many here.....

How about that.

[rpannier]

4. You remember that thread as well

That was extremely sad.

[Cirque du So-What]

13. It wasn't just a single thread

Every time a new thread was started, people couldn't wait to gleefully pile on. Bloody disgusting. The comparison to Beck's misguided followers is apt.

[SargeUNN]

15. Yes it was sad

I protested heavily and never have I been so disappointed in DU as I was. It certainly has me wondering what was said here during Katrina since I was in Katrina and too busy trying to save lives I didn't have the time to check out what was going on on boards. However, I am now grateful that I wasn't able to because after last night I can imagine what was being said about us.

[TexasObserver]

28. It's the season.

It brings out old and new ... people of questionable commitment to progressive ideals.

[Hannah Bell]

40. no, they're not. for starters, beck has the basic facts wrong. as do the spinners at DU.

to wit:

“those who are just on raw feeling are not going to understand” that the county’s actions in refusing to assist the Cranicks were justified."

the county didn't refuse to assist the cranicks. the county simply voted not to fund any residential fire service whatsoever & leave it up to individuals to contract, or not, with cities for fire service.

the city refused to respond to a call outside their service area, from a non-subscriber who'd already had one previous free fire call.

beck also fails to mention that the city of 2500 people is smaller & poorer than the unincorporated county of 15,000 people.

[dionysus]

75. +1

[Sentath]

72. Yes, mirrored

Flipped around and argued from the other side.

This is an awful example of the hateful paradise that the privatizers want.

This is exactly why we can't let this system spread.

[mkultra]

73. It is with much disgust that his position is close to mine

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

5. Disgusting, vile, completely lacking compassion...

Ugh... just like some others we know.

[maxsolomon]

6. if only this was too far for the teabaggers

but they'll rationalize it away - they worship the condescending asshole.

point of clarification: wasn't this the Kentucky town of Fulton refusing to help a person in a Tennessee county, Obion (where South Fulton is located), that won't pay for it's own fire service?

[A wise Man]

59. MMMMMMMMMM...Let's see here

the county fire department won't put out a fire for lack of a $75 fee. Would they refuse put out a brush fire in California and let the whole State burn up for the lack of $75??????? Some Duer's here are as pathetic as the rethug's and teabaggers. Shame on all of you for lack of common sense.

[maxsolomon]

65. i was asking a question

i wanted to understand the jurisdicional issues, as i think they contributed to the conflagration, & because i actually don't know, and you insulted me.

your moniker appears inaccurate.

[dionysus]

76. you're correct. the point many ignore is, the "city" of 2500 people has to foot the bill for

servicing an entire county of 15000.

documents show 75% of the city's fire calls are for people outside of the city; people who, by choice, do not have a fire department because they did not want to pay taxes for one.

while i'm not saying they should have let they guy's house burn down, i can't believe that people think it's okay for those greedy bastards to expect a small, poorer city to foot the bill for their public services.

eventually it could lead to no fire service for anyone, if they bankrupt the city's fire department

[hayu_lol]

95. Max, many of us including myself was reading the early threads and news...

releases and they all called the small city Fulton, which is in Kentucky. A bit of confusion. The small city(2500 people)is South Fulton, just inside the Obion county line.

This volunteer fire dept. has for years put out fires in the unincorporated Obion area without charge. The residents of S Fulton wanted a fire dept. and taxed themselves to pay for it. It is their rigs, their equipment, their firemen etc that go on these rural calls. They have not been reimbursed for any of their expenses.

The head commissioner of Obion County has said that if you live outside the city(S Fulton)and pay the subscription fee for fire coverage you will get it. If you do not subscribe, you will not get fire service.

This victim declined repeated attempts to get him to sign up. The county of Obion does not provide any kind of fire service. The commissioners struggled with this problem for two years. They finally chose two kinds of service: A fee on the light bill or subscriber service at the option of the individual property owner. A vote of 19/1 was against any sort of tax/fee increase. There is more but the complete history is out there and documented by me and Hannah Bell on this board.

[maxsolomon]

97. thanks for the clarification

i had been thinking that Fulton, KY was sending it's firefighters across state lines to unincorporated Obion Co., TN.

that's it's South Fulton, TN doesn't change much, but i suspected that a large portion of the blame lay with the Obion County Commissioners.

bet they change their mind over this, and embrace "socialism" real quick.

[OnlinePoker]

7. Does any county money go to supporting the fire department?

If so, I would think that anyone who doesn't pay the fee should also not be required to pay property taxes for a service they aren't "allowed" to access. Have the States sunk so low now that something as essential as firefighting is now user pay? What a fucking joke your country has become.

[molly77]

53. Tenn. has a very corrupt election system

This is what happens when the bottom line decides who wins elections.If you read bradblog, you will notice states that have a lot of racism , corruption or both have the most corrupt election systems. Ohio with the mafia and Fl. ..what can I say...Arizona..Alaska would not allow the democrats to see election results from '04.

[dionysus]

80. you have to understand it is that way in that county because the people voted for it to be that way.

the city is a whole different jurisdiction. they can't be expected to service these clowns who willingly are too cheap to pay

[K8-EEE]

8. Wait is this the self-professed "restorer of honor?"

YEAH RIGHT! Douchebag.

[KingFlorez]

9. Taxes are the service fee

Anyone paying taxes that is charged for a public service is being ripped off. I do not believe this was a private fire department, so they had no business charging feels.

Beck needs to do what his Mother did. That's a terrible thing to say, but he'd really be better off and so would the rest of the world.

[Hannah Bell]

47. It is a city fire department, & county residents don't pay city taxes.

They don't pay county taxes for fire service either, as the county has repeatedly declined to tax itself to pay for its own fire protection.

The city has 2500 people.

The unincorporated county has 15,000 people. It has a higher median income than the city.

The only payment the city receives from the county *is* the individual service fees.

Which the county voted for, instead of voting to tax itself for universal fire protection. Because they didn't want to "force" anyone to pay; this is a quote from one of their county commissioners.

you do the math. the people getting ripped off live in the city.

[dionysus]

94. except what people are missing is, these people ARE NOT IN THE CITY. they don't pay taxes to them.

they purposely don't have a FD because they didn't want to pay taxes for it.

they're using the fire department of a completely different jurisdiction for free. the $75 deal was offered to people outside of the city, people who don't pay taxes to fund a FD, and many of them still refused the service.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. Our country is disintegrating,

[Junkdrawer]

11. Yep. The Commons is under attack....

It's too expensive and the Rich are balking....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9260920

[Hannah Bell]

48. it;s not too expensive. the rich simply want more of the pie, and have the power to take it.

[Rex]

12. People here agree with Glenns feelings on the fire.

Well, not a lot. Thankfully only a small minority.

[Skittles]

25. but lord do they SUCK

they really stunk this place up :thumbsdown:

[Rex]

27. Glad I wasn't around for the storm here last night.

Sounds like it was gruesome to watch. :(

[Skittles]

31. strangest thing was

when I read the story, I just didn't comprehend - WTF, what is this fee thing? I can't imagine the kind of scenario that would allow for LETTING A HOUSE BURN DOWN. That shit needs to stop. This policy needs to be TRASHED and the money collected via taxes.

[Hannah Bell]

49. tell it to the county, because it's their policy. the city taxes its residents for fire service.

the county prefers to let its residents contract individually with the smaller, poorer city & provide no fire service whatsoever.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. There used to be volunteer fire departments. There ought to be

volunteer fire departments.

[Obamanaut]

46. Volunteer fire departments still exist, but they are staffed by volunteers.

If there are no volunteers, how does one staff a volunteer dept., or even 'have' one?

What "ought to be" and what "is" are not always the same.

[Hannah Bell]

51. The majority of city firefighters *are* volunteers. The county, on the other hand,

has repeatedly voted down proposals to fund its own volunteer fire department.

It prefers to let the city subsidize fire service for the larger, richer county.

A volunteer fire service isn't free. The proposal before the county would have cost around $400K/year.

[Cirque du So-What]

16. Where are all those who cried 'let the MF burn' now?

You were so cocksure of yourselves, but now - after Clown Blecch and other talking-head conservatroids are flaunting their lack of compassion - you're nowhere to be found. Which is stronger: your desire to appear tough & uncaring (the new machismo, apparently) or your desire NOT to be associated with right-wing assholes? Sorry, you'll always be associated with the latter in my book.

[eleny]

17. They're probably wishing they'd waited for more information on the situation

I wonder what pearl of venomous wisdom will drop from Beck's lips next? Maybe deriding this family because they "choose" to be homeless. :eyes:

[Parker CA]

18. Well said. Just the titles of some threads here made my jaw drop, and some of the comments, wow. nt

[Cirque du So-What]

20. I expect a precipitous drop in that sort of post from here on

Now that their callousness has come to be associated with Head Wreck Beck, they'll sacrifice their 'principles' (such as they are) for the sake of avoiding ridicule. Weak. Really, really weak.

[TonyMontana]

21. In the gun forum, probably

[Hannah Bell]

54. I'm still right here, & Beck's position has nothing to do with mine.

Beck loooves a pay to play system like the county opted for. And he hates publicly-funded systems such as the city has, where residents are taxed universally to fund universal services.

And he, like you, obscures the jurisdiction issue.

I don't.

I think the county should tax itself & pay for universal fire service.

Not make it a matter of individual choice, then expect the city to subsidize county residents who can't, or won't, pay the fee.

even though the city taxes its own residents for universal service inside the city & is smaller & poorer than the libertarian county who won't tax its own residents, but tells them if they want fire service they can contract with the city & if they don't, they don't have to.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pithlet]

78. What? I'm still here. My position hasn't changed.

THe city isn't obligated to bankrupt themselves just because the assclowns in the next county don't want to pay their taxes. I haven't changed my mind one iota. And my position has never been the same as Beck's. In fact, no one here at DU has that I've seen. That's just spin.

[spanone]

19. Feck

[pnorman]

22. Beck: “those who are just on raw feeling are not going to understand”

I won't bother to make any "beyond irony" observation at this point.

[TexasObserver]

23. Thank God. If one is on the same side as Beck, one has to know they're wrong.

This concludes the debate at DU about which point of view is the proper one.

Clearly, agreeing with Glenn Beck on this issue is a sign one has lost their way.

[Junkdrawer]

26. And some say Beck is good for nothing.... n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

30. lol

[Hannah Bell]

56. bullshit. no one defending the city is on the same side as beck.

in fact, those on the same side as beck are those who ignore the fact that the county has the wherewithal to tax its residents to fund universal fire protection -- & has repeatedly refused to do so.

beck loves fee for service. he hates publicly funded universal service, & would love to see it bankrupted.

[TexasObserver]

60. Your position on this topic is exactly the same as Glenn Beck's.

His quotes on this topic look like they were lifted from your posts.

Your quotes and his both reek of Ayn Rand's influence.

I suggest you study Glenn Beck's comments and see if you haven't made very similiar comments in your many posts on this topic.

[Hannah Bell]

66. because *you* say so? i repeat, glenn beck *loves* fee for service.

[oldlib]

68. Drop it Hannah.

I have read and respect your posts in the past. The fire should have been put out, following Democratic principals.

[Hannah Bell]

69. The fire department responds to calls outside its service area where human life is threatened.

It doesn't respond to calls for property & kitties.

Taxing a small city to fund fire service for a larger, richer county which refuses to pay isn't a democratic principle. It's a libertarian principle.

drop it yourself.

[Pithlet]

77. Really? What Democratic principles says we should allow taxphobes in neighboring counties

to bleed our services dry into bankruptcy? I want to know which ones those are?

[dionysus]

83. she's right. i think they should have put it out, but a small city can't service a large county for

free just because the county residents refuse to pay to have their own fire department.

in the end it'll bankrupt or reduce that city's FD, and the ppl ofthe city who pay taxes to have their FD will be screwed.

[Pithlet]

86. I would be on the "they should have put it out" team if this had been their first tactic.

But they'd been responding to fires even though people hadn't paid the fees, with promises people would pay. This was a last resort. They're failing financially. Basically, they said "We can't do this anymore. We only show up if you pay from now on. It's all we can afford". And I'm sorry, but I support that. It's not even their fire department. It's in another state!

[dionysus]

88. i agree with you. peopel are truly missign the larger point. it's not about a mean ol FD. it's about

a whole country of jackasses who want free public services (that are paid by a much smaller, poorer group of people through taxes).

[Pithlet]

89. Do people really think this is just some unusual band of evil firefighters?

Is that even likely? Or logical? Yes, these were just a band of psychopaths just waiting for this opportunity. They really didn't want to fight fires... :crazy: II wonder if people are even really thinking it through much. Maybe they're just seeing House Was Allowed To Burn!!! and reacting? Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[dionysus]

90. i don't know, but it's a visceral reaction. you'd think they were roasting s'mores over the rubble..

[Pithlet]

91. And thus their true plan to just watch a house burn down was complete!

The whole Fire Company thing was just a cover.

[TexasObserver]

79. No, because your statements and his are virtually identical.

Randian and Reaganesque.

[Pithlet]

84. Like hell they are.

I don't think Beck thinks much about paying taxes.

[life_long_dem]

29. If someone paid the $75 fee, and there was an accounting error

showing that the fee hadn't been paid, the FD would let the house burn, even though that house was covered. That would be very unfortunate.

[Skittles]

32. the idea they are checking for fees before responding

no, not acceptable in any scenario

[dionysus]

93. ok skittles, this particular fire aside, what should be done? is a "city" of 2500 supposed to

provide free fire service to a county of 15,000, just because the people in that county have, for DECADES, refused to pay taxes to have a FD of their own?

a DUer posted a document that shows that for this "city", 75% of their fire calls were to people outside of their jurisdiction. how can that be sustainable?

[Pisces]

33. There were quite a few that saw eye to eye with Beck yesterday.

How interesting.

[Amonester]

36. Not just yesterday, sadly.

I saw a few up to this last couple of hours, until that becky endorsment of their wicked justifications was posted.

Since then, crickets...

[mzmolly]

34. “BY THEIR FRUITS YOU WILL KNOW THEM”

~ MATTHEW 7:15

Beck's fruit smells like dung.

[applegrove]

35. If they privatize even fire departments and public schools people will end

up not wanting to pay taxes. Just as the rich GOP base wants.

[Fumesucker]

37. Umm... The firefighters were from South Fulton Kentucky..

Obion county Tennessee doesn't have a fire department, by explicit choice of the voters in that county.

Fail for getting basic facts 180 degrees wrong..

[dionysus]

82. DING DING DING why peopleare ignoringt his part i can't understand....

[MadHound]

38. Compassion, it's the new communist threat. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

39. South Fulton = 2500 people. Unincorporated Obion County = 15,000 people.

Obion County has no residential fire service, & has voted down a volunteer fire department twice.

Instead, it voted 19-1 to let residents contract individually -- or not, as each individual saw fit -- with city fire departments funded by city residents to fight fires in the cities.

I call these "cities" but the smallest is 360 people, and all except one have less than 2600 people.

The media spin coming from both "left" & "right" is all in the same direction, & designed to obscure the basic facts of the situation.

I wonder why that is?

[quaker bill]

41. The point of government is

that we all from time to time "sponge off our neighbors" (a fascinating concept turned a few different ways).

When my house was on fire 20 years ago, the fire department came and put it out, for "free" (in that they did not bill me). My guess is that they spent more putting the fire out than I paid in taxes to support the fire department that year.

As a civil servant working a complaint department, I get calls regularly from folks who inform me that they are "taxpayers" and demand service. What they don't get is that everyone who calls me is a "taxpayer", so this is not a distinction. The other bit they are missing is that the average "taxpayer" sends in roughly $32.00 a year to support the agency I work for (roughly the cost of a plumber making a house call, before he or she gets the tools out). They will have long spent all that money by the time I get off the phone, do a bit of basic research to locate them, and assign a staff member to deal with their concern. The rest of the work actually fixing the problem is funded by other taxpayers, those who aren't calling.

[Hannah Bell]

44. you were, however, paying taxes for fire protection.

the people in the county are not paying taxes for fire protection.

not to the county, & not to the city.

the fee is the only payment, & that's voluntary.

the county has repeatedly chosen not to tax itself for a volunteer fire department, or to contract as a body with the cities for fire protection.

it's been going on for decades.

when the city finally got sick of it, this is the solution the county came up with -- fee for service, individual choice.

[quaker bill]

92. Yes I was paying taxes

and I chose my place to live because I actually wanted to pay more taxes and have better services. So when Hurricane Charley came through and took down 4 very large oak trees in my yard along the right of way, the city came in, cut them up and removed them for "free", even though one of them fell into my yard. In the county, it was self service, but they did provide a large place you could haul them to.

People can chose how they want to live. Given this freedom, some will make poor choices.

[Canuckistanian]

42. Almost entirely predictable...

Beck didn't make his money by taking sensible and compassionate positions on issues.

Funny, Beck takes the EXACT same position as some DUers, right down to mocking and ridiculing the victims.

[chillspike]

43. So I guess no one at the fire dept..

was interested in saving the lives of the animals regardless of whether or not a fee was paid? So basically we've monetized personal compassion? In other words, I may personally feel animals need to be helped but not if I'm not paid for it? Nice.

Fucktards.

[Hannah Bell]

57. the fucktards live in the county. the ones who refuse to fund a fire department and prefer to

leech off a town 1/10 their population that taxes itself to fund fire service.

[Dash87]

45. Beck is a world class nut.

♥

[Jamastiene]

50. Sounds like many here on DU these last couple of days...

sadly.

[KharmaTrain]

52. One Day...

...and I'm not sure it'll happen in my lifetime, these shitstains will look back and honestly not believe the shit they're saying. The GOTB, if it survives, is laying landminds for years and generations ahead with their verbose rhetoric and over-the-top reactions to anything and everything.

C'mon this is Libertarian Nirvana...the ultimate "Pay Go"...how "capitalism" should be. It demonstrates in full what a country under right wing domination would look like. The only thing for free will be whatever the religious poobahs throw in your direction. Of course, you have to sumbit to their doctrines. Your neighbor's house burns down and he couldn't pay the FD? Well, that'll teach him...he needs to work harder so he can afford the protection. It's earned. Yep, a true paradise on earth isn't it.

Dreck is beyond punchdrunk...his actions and reactions are extremely predictable these days and does more harm to his "causes" than good. If Democrats are able to stave off big loses and hold onto the House and Senate in November, he will be the one we thank for bringing Democrats together. There's a sleeping giant out there and it's not listening to Dreck.

[piratefish08]

55. his view is well supported by WAY too many people on this forum.

[Hannah Bell]

58. the only people supporting beck on this forum are the spinners in this thread.

[Cal33]

62. I wonder if Beck really believes what he is saying, or is he saying

this only because he is being paid to say it, or both? In any case, he is one sick
weirdo I'd prefer to have nothing to do with -- ever. And I'm glad I don't.

[Jokinomx]

63. The answer is so simple....They should have put the fire out and then

charged the family for their services. In fact, I think many of our services should be based on use. In this case, since the owners didn't pay the $75.00 they should have been taken care of and then given a bill for the entire cost to the fire department. Which would be a heck of a lot more than $75.00.

My humble opinion.

[Sentath]

71. Sigh

They tried that with the same family a couple years ago. The bill remains unpaid.

[dionysus]

85. they tried that before. they were charging $500 to respond, but had no legal athority to collect.

that's how the $75 fee came about. they were putting these fires out and >50% of the ppl still wouldn't pay.

[irislake]

64. America the land of milk and honey?

This is gonna shock the rest of the world. My mind is still boggling. Encroyable!

[txaslftist]

70. What kind of a jerk fireman lets a house burn?

Really.

What kind of a jerk fireman lets a house burn down in front of him.

Forget following orders, forget the fee dispute, forget the rest of that crap.

Who could sit there and watch a house burn?

hell, if I'd been there I would have tried to put it out myself, and I am not a fireman. I would have at least tried to save the animals.

I don't think much of anyone who wouldn't do that.

These firemen didn't start the fire, they aren't to blame. Still, they are bags of excrement for standing there and doing nothing.

[KittyWampus]

74. What part of the fact that Beck is one of the government hating idiots don't DU'ers get?

[lumberjack_jeff]

81. A stopped clock is right twice daily. n/t

[nolabear]

87. Christ on a crutch. Just tell me where to send the seventy five dollars.

People are so afraid of being taken advantage of these days that they can't imagine that it does THEM good to be generous and trusting. Instead, they let mean, petty little beggars like Beck feed off of their souls like vampires while their wallets stay nice and fat. It's disgusting.

[Lucian]

96. Hmmm...a lot of people here and Beck agree on this topic.

I find this highly disturbing.