Who gloats over those struck by disaster, however ignorant or irresponsible?

[jpgray]

Since when did smug schadenfreude become our scene? Society ought to provide certain protections against catastrophe, and the most essential of these should not be in the business of judging who among the victims is deserving. Whether it's fire, a hurricane, or a heart attack, certain essential services should protect everyone as far as is practicable and settle any breach of conduct afterward. Everyone--from abominable Grand Wizards to adorable Tiny Tims.

Disagree? I'd like to know why.

[Fumesucker]

1. You're right, society should...

If you're referring to the fire in TN though, that county voted 19-1 against such protection in the case of fire..

It's not shadenfreude to point out that people get the government they vote for.

[Posteritatis]

4. And you know the voting habits of the guy who lost his home? (nt)

[divideandconquer]

7. It is more of a moral hazard to put out the fire than to let it burn

The city would be bankrupted by county moochers. I wonder how many people would support their tax dollars being used for elective medical care for illegal immigrants?

[Posteritatis]

10. Christ, how common are house fires in your neighborhood? (nt)

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

28. In My neighborhood? Not common at all.

Not a lot of fires in Heaven. :)

[Fumesucker]

29. I have a station right down the road, close enough I can hear the sirens..

They get called out several times a day on average..

[Posteritatis]

33. Several fire calls to your immediate neighborhood a day on average?

And your neighborhood's as sparsely built up as a typical rural area?

Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

[Fumesucker]

35. Where did I say my area was rural?

Half my county is nearly urban, the other half almost rural, I live in the urbanized portion..

[Posteritatis]

38. Then your experience has no relevance to a rural environment. (nt)

[Fumesucker]

39. When I moved here twenty years ago it was rural..

One of the fastest developing counties in the country for quite a few years..

[DURHAM D]

8. He is probably a Republican and bitches about taxes all the time.

He actually reminds me of one of my uncles who hated "The Government".

[Posteritatis]

13. Leaving aside the whole "it's okay if something bad happens to The Enemy," evidence? (nt)

[divideandconquer]

25. Libertarian thought is the enemy of civilization and this proves it very well

Libertarianism is the opposite of humanitarianism. It's a shame this poor towns fire department got a bad name because of Libertarian parasites forcing them into a no win scenario. Do you think this hasn't happened before and the fire department didn't get paid?

[Posteritatis]

31. I'm still seeing lots of assumptions here

People decided that this guy's situation means he's their ideological enemy to the point of rejecting his own explanation because of course the lying liar would lie about it, yadda yadda yadda. This whole subthread is based on the assumption that anyone living in a town that's getting jerked around by Randroids must be one themselves, which is a claim of staggering hypocrisy coming from residents of many American states (and no shortage of Canadian provinces, for that).

Basically I'm not seeing humanitarianism at all in the discussions about this guy, just a whole lot of mind-reading and defenses of privatized emergency services because they finally hosed someone we decided we aren't supposed to like - as though our liking him or not is the least bit relevant.

[divideandconquer]

43. The county voted for this libertarian philosophy

The county is even more responsible than the homeowner.

[Fumesucker]

9. What does that have to do with the county getting the government it voted for?

19-1 against gives pretty good odds that this guy didn't want to pay the taxes for fire protection..

Indeed, he didn't pay a nominal fee either, more evidence.

[Posteritatis]

11. You're suggesting he got what was coming because he voted for that

I see no evidence about what he voted for one way or another, and "odds" aren't good enough to declare facts there.

Plus, he claims he simply forgot about the fee, but I assume you'll decide he's lying because it supports your narrative.

[Fumesucker]

14. Right, hes going to go on national TV and declare that he deliberately didn't pay..

He's shopping for sympathy, I feel for the guy that he lost his home, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

But the fact remains that you have to draw the line somewhere, should the city provide fire protection for the entire county gratis?

[Posteritatis]

17. Your mind-reading skills are fascinating. (nt)

[Swede]

30. He was reminded twice.

South Fulton city manager Jeff Vowell said people always think they will never be in a situation where they will need rural fire protection, but he said City of South Fulton personnel actually go above and beyond in trying to offer the service. He said the city mails out notices to customers in the specified rural coverage area, with coverage running from July 1 of one year to July 1 the next year.
At the end of the enrollment month of July, the city goes a step further and makes phone calls to rural residents who have not responded to the mail-out.
“These folks were called and notified,” Vowell said. “I want to make sure everybody has the opportunity to get it and be aware it’s available. It’s been there for 20 years, but it’s very important to follow up.”
Mayor Crocker added, “It’s my understanding with talking with the firefighters that these folks had received their bill and they had also contacted them by phone.”
http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=46801

[tblue37]

49. We know his nonpaying habits. nt

[roguevalley]

54. he was interviewed by keith and said he forgot. i believe him. I

loathe fires. I feel for all of them, even the dummies.

[jpgray]

26. At a certain level of harm, it's necessary to protect people from the fruits of their ignorance

You would agree with me there, I imagine. Or is it an absolute thing for you?

[TorchTheWitch]

50. and when the choice is to vote for the shithead or the other shithead?

If the parties would put forth candidates to vote for who actually give a shit about the people you might have a point.

[Throd]

2. Wait until the next wildfire in Orange County, CA

You'll get your answer.

[divideandconquer]

3. Because this incident proves libertarianism is an unworkable crock of crap

Already thousands have actually died because of Libertarian policies, some guy loses one of his properties isn't the same as someone being denied healthcare or unemployment benefits.

[Posteritatis]

5. And, weirdly enough, it shows how popular that sort of thing is among DUers. (nt)

[Fumesucker]

12. Not at all...

It shows how many of us are surrounded by these people and know all too well how they think.

Provide them with fire protection they don't have to pay for in taxes or fees and they'll laugh at the city that provides it when it goes bankrupt and call them stupid liberals.

[divideandconquer]

18. I see it all the time in Georgia, teabagging scum laugh at city finances as they mooch

Libertarian mullah Neal Boortz wanted Katrina victims to prostitute themselves rather than take government help.

[Fumesucker]

22. Boortz is not a libertarian..

Oh, he used to be a long time ago but he went full metal wingnut when he got syndicated and the really big bucks started to roll in.

[divideandconquer]

46. Boortz uses the Libertarian paradise as way of poisoning practical political discourse

I wish he would put his money where his mouth is and build a Libertarian paradise in one these poor rural southern counties. Won't ever happen because Libertarianism is totally impractical and this accidental Libertarian incident shows how impractical and immoral it is.

[Fumesucker]

51. I used to listen to him long ago when he was at WRNG..

He's always been a first class asshole but he used to be a hilariously funny asshole, now he's not funny any more, he's just an asshole and a dishonest one at that.

His shtick changed a lot when the big money started rolling in, I got the impression a long time ago that he mostly believed what he said, now it's all an act designed to keep the money flowing in, I don't think he believes a word of it.

[DURHAM D]

20. Did you hear the guy say his son had had a fire up at his house also.

Why were they burning near the house? Was the wind blowing? What were they burning? Why was a child allowed to do this? Well, I don't know if it was a child but he did say it was his grandson. Did the grandson start the other fire as well?

These people seem like a danger to themselves and their neighbors.

[JVS]

21. Libertarian policy isn't popular. The failure of libertarian policy is being relished though.

[DURHAM D]

23. Your name should be Pious. nt

[EFerrari]

15. How do you know what it means to that family?

[HEyHEY]

6. I agree. Except for hipsters, they should not ever be given assistance.

[JVS]

24. quoth the hipster.

[HEyHEY]

27. Me?! HELL NO!

[WeekendWarrior]

16. Um, assholes? nt

[MadMaddie]

19. Who? People who have lost their own humanity.

Selfishness seems to have replaced empathy.

In this case they could have billed him. Pathetic excuses for human beings and a disgrace to firefighters everywhere.

[gratuitous]

32. Who's gloating?

The Cranicks had a horrible thing happen to them - their house burned down. The fire department showed up, made sure everyone was safe, put out the fire that had spread to house that had paid its assessment, and they were done.

Yes, society should provide certain protections. But for the last 30 years, millions of people have heard and fallen for the "something for nothing" siren song of the low tax/less government libertarian right. When people refuse to pay the taxes that support basic services, what other possible outcome could there be? It's not "gloating" to note the absolutely predictable and necessary consequence of such a short-sighted political philosophy that hurts the most vulnerable of our society. Indeed, it could not be otherwise.

[1620rock]

34. Yeah, and I guess a doctor should let a patient die if he has no HI and can't pay up front.

[gratuitous]

36. I've seen that parallel drawn a couple of times

But I fail to see how it applies in any way. But if it makes sense in your mind, more power to you. I guess.

[BlueCheese]

44. Why doesn't it apply?

You (not you in particular) could have bought health insurance when you were healthy. It wouldn't have cost that much--you're young and healthy. But you didn't. How many 25-year olds get that sick, anyway?

But then you feel a lump. It turns out to be cancer. Thank goodness they caught it early. Your survival odds are excellent. All you have to do is pay $100,000 for the treatment.

You can't afford that! And now nobody will treat you because you can't pay. And of course nobody will insure you because you need $100,000 in medical services immediately. And society shouldn't have to shoulder the cost--if you got free treatment, we'd have to treat everyone who got cancer. Why should I have to pay for your negligence? You gambled, you lost.

Maybe next time you'll choose differently.

[Fumesucker]

37. It happens every day in America, dozens if not hundreds of times..

People die for lack of medical care by the thousands here.

[BlueCheese]

40. Other scenarios...

What if the fire had been started by a neighbot's lawn mower? Would this elderly couple still have deserved their fate?

What if it was arson by a couple of bored kids? Then what?

I agree with the OP--obviously the family should have paid the fee. The system is rotten, and should never have existed. But the idea that anyone deserved to have his or her house destroyed, along with everything of sentimental value to them, and forced to pick up the pieces in their retirement--well, that's way too stiff a penalty for such a mistake.

[Pisces]

41. The gloaters have infiltrated DU under the libertarian guise. You

You have to wear thigh high bullshit repellent boots to enter here. This is one of the worst things I've seen on DU. Karma is a bitch for those superior beings on this board who don't give a shit about
your fellow man regardless of their political affiliation.

[divideandconquer]

45. No one knows his political affiliation but we know the county voted for a libertarian solution

[TorchTheWitch]

52. I agree - one of the worst

Although I shouldn't be amazed anymore. I'm still reeling over the applauding of the fascist health insurance law.

[Swamp Rat]

42. I wish I was there to help the guy save his animals and belongings

Shame on the firemen who just watched this happen, for whatever stupid reason.

[TexasObserver]

47. No one who has compassion.

The key word in this dialog is EMERGENCY.

If there's an emergency, we react first and worry about payment later. That should be true for police assistance, fire assistance, and medical emergencies. When the accident happens just outside the city limits, the police should not refuse to respond upon learning the accident is outside the jurisdiction. They should respond until the county sheriff's personnel can take over. If it's a fire, the city department should respond, particularly where it does respond to those who have subscribed to city service by paying a fee. If the home didn't pay the fee, they can still be charged for the city fire department making a run to put out a fire.

We put out home fires because failing to do so threatens more homes, and it fouls the air badly.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

48. Rotten people, that's who. And yes, it IS gloating.

Disguised with the old "them law is them law" vomit-inducing attitude.

Rotten. Rotten, one and all.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

53. Thank you.