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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 05:01 PM
Original message
On Voting for Bad Democrats: the Perriello Predicament
What if you told your local congress critter you'd oppose them if they funded more war, and they funded more war, but their opponent is even worse and a Republican?

Tom Perriello, first-term Democratic congress member from Virginia's Fifth district, is widely expected to lose his reelection bid, in part because he voted for a healthcare bill. Right wingers in the district hated the bill for doing anything at all. Others of us who want to eliminate the health insurance corporations, as other wealthy countries have done, thought it was a terrible bill and quite possibly worse than nothing, as it empowers and entrenches the problem even while imposing some reforms.

So, why did Perriello vote yes? Doing so pleased a lot of Democratic voters, pleased the Democratic Party, and conceivably Perriello himself thought it was a good bill; he said he did. But, having promised during the campaign to support abortion rights, he voted for the Stupak-Pitts anti-choice amendment to the healthcare bill. While there are women and those who care about women in Perriello's district, you wouldn't know it from the reaction. The anti-healthcare crowd, on the other hand, proposed to burn him in effigy.

On Perriello's votes for war funding, he hasn't said what he himself thinks. He has voted for the largest military budgets ever, which have included massive funding of illegal wars. He has also voted for supplemental bills funding just the wars.

In 2009, Perriello voted for war funding. Then the Senate added to the bill an IMF bailout for Eastern European bankers. At that point, all the Republicans and right-wingers turned against the bill despite its funding of mass-murder, whereas others of us just thought the bill had two great reasons to vote against it now instead of one. The vote was very close and followed a lot of pressure from the White House and the Democratic Party on its members. Perriello voted yes. Why?

We don't know, but we know that it didn't please a lot of Democratic voters and did put him on the wrong side with the right-wingers. Rather than pleasing any block of voters, Perriello pleased the Democratic Party, which -- and I'm sure this was all coincidence -- quickly bought him radio ads and shipped Steny Hoyer and Van Jones down to do press events in Perriello's district.

Come 2010, there was another war supplemental vote, this one to escalate the war in Afghanistan. Perriello could have voted no and allowed the bill to safely pass. The Republicans were backing this one. In the end 12 Republicans and 103 Democrats opposed it, but Perriello voted yes. He didn't have to do that to please his party or his funders, and it displeased those Democratic leaning voters who heard anything about it. There was never a single news story printed in any Fifth District newspaper to tell anyone the vote had happened at all. Perriello either voted yes to please right-wing voters or because he actually thought the war should be escalated. But he never made a public case for that escalation, and when a small group of us met with him prior to the vote he refused to say what -- if anything -- he thought.

Perriello is now receiving the backing of the National Rifle Association. When you look through his record on all types of issues, it's among the very worst for a Democrat. ProgressivePunch.org scores him as the 232nd most progressive member of Congress and puts him in the category of "leaning Republican." Some supposedly progressive organizations continue to back Perriello as a stand-out progressive. At least some who support that counter-factual position argue that Virginia's Fifth District is so backward, that Perriello is relatively more progressive than are the very best members of Congress who have it easy in their super-enlightened districts.

But, taking the national perspective, one has to ask what good it does the nation or the world to focus on electing bad congress members even if they are better than their districts. I'd much rather support the very most progressive members who are in any danger, and run more-progressive challengers in primaries if not general elections against those who are falling behind strong majority positions in their safe districts. The Democrats have a big majority in the House. If your goal is to keep the Democrats in charge, why not do so by protecting the best or even the mediocre Democrats? Why put energy into keeping the worst Democrats around?

Some well-meaning souls tell me that Perriello is with us in his heart and would vote the right way if he thought he could. Supposedly, he does vote the right way when bills fly under the radar and won't be a big deal to his constituents. The evidence for that is underwhelming. The approach to democracy that it establishes is disturbing. If Perriello believes his district is lagging behind, he ought to use the platform he has to educate people, not make enlightened votes when, and only when, nobody's watching.

When I look for the very best members of Congress, I notice that some of them are in similar situations to Perriello. Congressman Alan Grayson is a first-term Democrat from a traditionally Republican district in Florida. He, like Perriello, came in through a narrow victory in a year in which a presidential race turned out lots of new and excited voters. Grayson quickly became a leader in the progressive caucus and went beyond what most of its members would do. He took an out-spoken position in support of peace, justice, and the social good on a wide range of issues. He didn't just vote against more war. He publicly organized people around the country to lobby other congress members to vote No. That kind of leadership is almost unheard of. It almost makes it look as if the congressman actually wants to end the wars. People have responded by flooding Grayson's reelection campaign with support and funding. Perriello, too, has raised lots of money, so much that the Democratic Party has an excuse for not giving him more, despite his loyalty.

But here's the difference: people are excited and energized to back Grayson. His blunt outspokenness for progressive positions generates endless controversy and free media attention. He aggravates people who would never have voted for him anyway. And he excites people who would otherwise likely stay home to get out and vote and bring all their neighbors. I tell people to help Grayson, and I live in Perriello's district. Here, the arguments for Perriello are mumbled more than shouted. They focus on his supposed goodness at heart, his voting record notwithstanding, and the horror of his opponent.

Perriello's Republican opponent, Robert Hurt, would likely be as bad or worse than him on every issue. He opposes any sort of controls on carbon emissions. His father is an investor in uranium mining, which Hurt pushed a state bill to create a study of in Virginia. Hurt would openly and unapologetically back a corporate agenda across the board.

Perriello's other opponent, Jeffrey Clark, ended up on the ballot because the Virginia Independent Green Party collected signatures after having assumed, without any investigation, that Perriello was a progressive, and assumed that putting a Tea Partier on the ballot would help Perriello by hurting Hurt. Clark says he would vote against war funding. But I don't think even he knows with much confidence how he would vote on most issues, and I certainly disagree with him on many.

Only Hurt and Perriello, of course, are predicted to have a chance. Voting for Clark might be a way to make an anti-war statement. So might staying home. It's hard to see how voting for Perriello or Hurt could do anything immediate for peace or for shifting our financial investment from the military to schools or jobs or green energy. Hurt seems likely to back wars the Republican Party backs, which is just about all of them. Perriello defers to the president on all such matters, at least when the president is a Democrat.

In July, Perriello voted for an amendment that would have requested that the President come up with an exit plan, any exit plan, for Afghanistan. There was no date attached, and no enforcement. It was just rhetoric, but Perriello backed it, just as he did the so-called "Responsible Plan to End the War in Iraq" that dozens of Democrats campaigned on in 2008. That plan committed Perriello to banning presidential signing statements, and he hasn't lifted a finger as the new president has produced them. It required smaller military budgets, and Perriello has voted for larger ones. The plan supported the Geneva Conventions and habeas corpus, while opposing warrantless spying and rendition and calling for the creation of a war crimes commission. We have yet to hear word one out of Perriello the congressman on any of it. As far as withdrawing from Iraq, the plan was weaker than the treaty Bush signed, so counting on Perriello to fight for compliance with the Status of Force Agreement is unwise.

And yet, Hurt doesn't even drop rhetorical teases that one might hope to later hold him to. He's a sane Republican by today's standards. This is a contest between a non-lunatic Republican and one of the worst Democrats, but there's still nothing good that can be said about Hurt, even in comparison to Perriello, except for the fact that he isn't Perriello.

I told Perriello I would oppose him if he voted for the war money. If I follow through, even by voting for Clark, it helps Hurt. But if I don't follow through, I can't tell some later post-Hurt representative what I want and expect to be taken seriously at all. Or at least I like to imagine that there is that kind of institutional memory. I even like to think that the Democratic Party will notice if its progressive leaders, like Grayson do well while its "leaning Republican" members like Perriello fail.

One way to make such a message resonate, I think, and to allow those of us unsure what to do in our district to take some kind of action rather than trying to articulate the reasons for our sitting still, would be this: organize progressives in Virginia's Fifth District to make contributions of money and of time making phone calls to Alan Grayson for Congress.
http://www.graysonforcongress.com
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I will always maintain that voters want left politics from democratic politicians.
Edited on Sat Sep-25-10 05:14 PM by xchrom
It's the difference they're looking for in any election.

If they want a republican - they'll vote for one.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm not voting for any more bad Democrats.
I will support good Democrats whenever and where ever I can.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. My feelings exactly. No
more automatic votes because some is a D.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. +1
I won't perpetuate bad policies by voting for those who support them. I'll vote for progressive Democrats.
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David D1 Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. You Should Vote for Perriello. It's a Big Mistake Not too
The fact Perriello voted for war funding is not surprising. President Obama and many other Dems did as well. It is a big mistake to vote against Perriello because he voted for what the President and many other Dems wanted. The Reps will be far worse than Perriello. No true "liberal" or "progressive" Dem will win Perriello's conservative-leaning district for many years.

If you do not vote for Perriello, you are essentially voting for a Republican Congress, and that will be much, much worse than blue dog Dems.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Welcome to DU.
In this election, let DINO's twist in the wind.

In the next election, put forth someone who can articulate a "professional left" message and then win.

Hartmann has been pointing out when progressives run, they win.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. We did have primaries this summer.
If you couldn't put forth someone who could articulate a "professional left" message and win this time around, then why do you think it will happen next time?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. In the situation of the lesser of two evils: Vote for whomever you want to march against.
The march might be shorter and less violent with a Democrat. This only works when it's followed up with MARCHING.

And I am only saying march because general strikes seems to get very little support.
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. How is this even a Predicament? You vote for the best of the viable candidates on the ballot.
Edited on Sat Sep-25-10 07:19 PM by BzaDem
That is the point of the election. Do you think the Republican is better than the Democrat? If so, then vote for the Republican. If not, then vote for the Democrat.

There is only so much political pain you can inflict upon yourself (by voting Republican) before your survival instinct focuses your mind. You will eventually hit your breaking point. Perhaps it will happen if the Republican you enable votes for doubling the military budget from what it is today, to prepare for war with Iran. Maybe it will happen when the Republican you enable supports trillions of tax cuts for the rich even beyond the Bush tax cuts. Maybe it will happen when the Republican you enable votes to privatize Social Security and voucherize Medicare.

But rest assured -- it will happen eventually. Why not just skip all of that, and vote for the Democrat?
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I disagree, BzaDem. I have consistently voted for a Dem Congressman because
he is far better than a Republican. However, when he voted for the Telecom Immunity and for extending the Iraq War and for the TARP funding after I had written to him and told him how important those issues are to me, I decided that he was only interested in being a centrist Democrat. So I will no longer vote for him. Not for the Republican and not for him even though he will be on the ballot. If there were another party fielding a progressive candidate I would vote for that party's candidate.

I liken this situation to how you teach a child basic manners. You explain to the child what is and what is not expected and acceptable. When the child does the right thing he/she gets positive rewards. When he/she does the wrong thing he gets negative reinforcement. I've tried the method of ignoring inappropriate behavior and it did not work. With the Democratic party, the inappropriate behavior is continuing despite my demands that it stop. If I continue to give the party positive reinforcement for doing the opposite of what I want it to do (or want its representative(s) to do) the party will always assume that it will get my vote regardless of whether it looks out for my interests. Big Fail.

That's exactly where many of us Democrats are now. We are seeing our nation being given away to the corporate overlords by both political parties. The Republicans are trying to snatch America away and hand it to the Corporatists while the Democrats are giving it to them piece by piece. Either way, we lose our democracy.

Sometimes it takes big failures and lack of support to make a political party change. The leadership of the Democratic party is heading in the wrong direction. Until they change course, I will only support and vote for those Dems who are progressives and VOTE for progressive legislation.

Right now I'm being bled to death by the Democrats--the death by a thousand cuts; whereas, the Republicans want to slice my jugular. Either way I will be dead.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. I have tried to be civil with you before, but it has never worked, BzaDem
Calling someone a child because you don't agree with them is despicable.

I have been a loyal Democrat for over forty years and have voted for DLC types while holding my nose in hopes that "ANY Democrat is better than a Republican". So now we have the likes of Ben Nelson and Blanche Lincoln to represent the Paleolithic Wing of the Democratic party. Since the DLC will not support any progressive candidates I will not support the DLC sychophants. Now that I see I cannot engage in an honest discussion with you without you name-calling I will desist from further attempts to enlighten you.



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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. "Since the DLC will not support any progressive candidates I will not support the DLC sychophants"
Yeah. You'll just aide and enable Republicans instead. Sounds like a plan.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. I understand and respect the delimma being faced all over
the country...we faced it here with Brown. The voters here are pretty savvy.

As a prosecutor, Coakly was a DLC darling who would fall into lockstep. I held my nose and voted for her even though I felt nothing for her and she completely flubbed the election by going on vacation at a critical moment.

That said, with little or no ammunition, I could not convince mostly elderly voters, angry already about the COLA debacle and the mumblings and rumors from the O camp about putting SS in jeopardy.

I could not convince others she was the best of two evils and was not even sure of that myself; That important most of the elderly contingent (a very large segment of the voting public) to do the same. The backlash Came-eth, so to speak. Brown looked so harmless and was such a beefcake and nobody really knew anything about him. Those unfortunately, are the things that will make or break an election.

SS for the elderly, O's stances on all things fascist and corporatist, Marijuana an issue for the young. Health care, far too transparent for the savvy.

All things not boding well for Democrats, can be laid at the doorstep of bluedogs, DLCers and Dino's.

DLCers and pugs are cut from the same cloth; So most of those I encountered thought all Dems were all just like the crooked Pugs; All alike;

And that was what constantly spat back at me when trying to convince. "nuthin but a bunch of crooked politicians, "they are all the same."

And that is the danger of codling bluedogs, Dino's and DLCers. The Democratic party loses its distinction of fighting for the people and society at large. Bad "Democrats" give us all a bad name and are destroying the Democratic party.

I have had enough...I will write in Grayson in the 2012 primaries, as a protest if he is not on the ballot.
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-25-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. +1
... for your last sentence.
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DFLforever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. The only way Democrats will control Congress is if enough
blue dogs win their re-elections this fall . They are the ones who provide the margin for Dem control and allow us to bring up the legislation the rest of want even if they won't or can't support it.

None of that will be possible with a Republican congress. Although you can be certain they'll continue to fund any and every war, legal or not. Everyone who now complains about the Clinton presidency should remember its most unpalatable legislation was the direct result of the Republican Congressional takeover of 1994.

I think one has to consider more than self-interest or self-expression when voting. I believe one also has to consider the greater good, the general welfare of the country. Certainly at this time, that does not include a Republican majority in either house of Congress.



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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. The bigger picture is; And the bigger question is;
Edited on Sun Sep-26-10 12:13 PM by ooglymoogly
Will the democrats survive as a party of the people down the line if they are perceived as just a bunch of crooked politicians in the pockets of corporations, not any different from the pugs?

A short term gain of a few Senate and House privileges that ultimately end in meaningless legislation, written by bluedogs and their lobbyists does not seem to me very wise; And just as an aside; As Maddow pointed out, blue dogs do not always vote the wishes of their constituencies; Particularly in low population states and districts that are easy to manipulate by election tricks, a corporate press, out and out lies and pug machinations;

Bluedogs do however, always vote corporate interests, hugely supporting them, over peoples and constituents interests and then depend on corporate money and a corporate press to get out the lies they need tell their constituents to keep their seats.

Down the road, these things spell disaster for Democrats, who honestly hold the interests of the people over those of corporations; This damage lasting into perpetuity as history records these actions by "democrats" as we lose respect from the people as nothing but more of the same old corruption, with a charge of spineless to boot;

Filibusters and threats of filibusters by pugs and bluedogs have crippled, watered down, killed or stopped in its tracks, any good legislation coming before this congress.

All this by the actions of these duplicitous bluedogs who are destroying us and then lying their way out of it with the help of this administration who never blame them, but instead appoint them to head powerful commissions to form legislation that is ostensibly written by corp. lobbyists.

It is just a ruse that Democrats (meaning true Democrats who hold the peoples interests over those of corporations) control congress.

The Bluedogs, Dlcers, Dino's and pugs ("Democrats" and pugs, who support corporate interests over those of the people) control congress. This truth lies in a close examination of what has happened to all legislation coming before this 111th congress and the good cop, bad cop, kabuki theater surrounding it.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Hear, hear! Drop the "blue dogs" like the trash they are
Let those seats fall to the R'thugs.

Let's put some serious money into races where a true Democrat might win. And blast the psycho teapublicans out of the water in every other seat we can manage.

Having a "D" next to your name but voting consistently with the R'thugs doesn't help anyone, anywhere. It's pure stupidity and I was shocked that Pres. Clinton put so much effort into campaigning for that moron Blanche Lincoln after she has been a thorn in the Democrats' side for the past 2 years. Dump that Blanche! (paraphrasing Tom Leykis, of course, not that I follow his every word - I just like the phrase).
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Some thoughts;
I posted this in the wrong place but too late to change, so, again.

Will the democrats survive as a party of the people down the line if they are perceived as just a bunch of crooked politicians in the pockets of corporations, not any different from the pugs?

A short term gain of a few Senate and House privileges that ultimately end in meaningless legislation, written by bluedogs and their lobbyists does not seem to me very wise;

And just as an aside; As Maddow pointed out, blue dogs do not always and often do not, vote the wishes of their constituencies; Particularly in low population states and districts that are easy to manipulate by election tricks, a corporate press, out and out lies and pug machinations;

Bluedogs do however, always vote corporate interests who are hugely supporting them, over peoples and constituents interests and then depend on corporate money and a corporate press to get out the lies they need tell their constituents to keep their seats.

Down the road, these things spell disaster for Democrats, who honestly hold the interests of the people over those of corporations; This damage lasting into perpetuity as history records these actions by "democrats" as we lose respect from the people as nothing but more of the same old corruption, with a charge of spineless to boot;

Filibusters and threats of filibusters by pugs and bluedogs have crippled, watered down, killed or stopped in its tracks, any good legislation coming before this congress.

All this by the actions of these duplicitous bluedogs who are destroying us and then lying their way out of it with the help of this administration who never blame them, but instead appoint them to head powerful commissions to form legislation that is ostensibly written by corp. lobbyists.

It is just a ruse that Democrats (meaning true Democrats who hold the peoples interests over those of corporations) control congress.

The Bluedogs, Dlcers, Dino's and pugs ("Democrats" and pugs, who support corporate interests over those of the people) control congress. This truth lies in a close examination of what has happened to all legislation coming before this 111th congress and the good cop, bad cop, kabuki theater surrounding it.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
16. This is what Obama's strategy COULD have been...
But here's the difference: people are excited and energized to back Grayson. His blunt outspokenness for progressive positions generates endless controversy and free media attention. He aggravates people who would never have voted for him anyway. And he excites people who would otherwise likely stay home to get out and vote and bring all their neighbors.

Rahm and the DLC decided to go the other route and veer right to try and appease and placate. It hasn't worked. The wingnuts just move even further to the right and continue to scream "socialists!".

I was waiting to see Obama truely piss people off on the right. I wanted to see Beck blubber and melt on screen...FOR REAL. Instead all they have to do is fake outrage for the most part because the "evil" progressive agenda has not even poked up for a peek. Its like Beck and the rest of the con clowns, just keep walking through more and more extremist fear mongering doors, and when they look behind them, sure enough, Obama and rest of the Dems are carefully following them along at a distance.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-26-10 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. agreed...well said
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