"Thai women are a lot like women in America were" before they became "strong headed and opinionated"

[Liberal_in_LA]

A Thai Region Where Husbands Are Imported

September 24, 2010


Today, at the age of 30, she lives with her husband, Joseph Davis of Fresno, California, in an air-conditioned, three-bedroom house with a driveway and basketball hoop, surrounded by flower beds and a well-kept lawn.

“My family keeps saying, ‘You got it. You got your dream now,”’ she said.

But unlike many other foreign husbands, Mr. Davis, 54, did not take his wife home with him, choosing instead to settle down in northeastern Thailand, a region known as Isaan.

He is part of an expanding population of nearly 11,000 foreign husbands in the region, drawn by the low cost of living, slow pace of life and the exotic reputation of Thai women — something like a brand name for Western men seeking Asian partners. “Thai women are a lot like women in America were 50 years ago,” said Mr. Davis, before they discovered their rights and became “strong-headed and opinionated.”

“The women now know they are equal,” said Mr. Davis, a retired Naval officer who has been divorced twice, “so the situation is not as relaxed and peaceful as it is between an American and a Thai lady.”

-----------------------

A clash of expectations strains many marriages, and more than half end in divorce, said Prayoon Thavon, manager of international services at Panyavejinter Hospital in Udon Thani.

While the men — many of them retired and living on pensions, many disappointed in their lives and marriages at home — may be seeking an emotional connection, the women are generally motivated by economics, said Mr. Prayoon, who provides counseling for mixed couples.

“For some ladies it is just money, money, money,” he said. “Getting married has become a business more than love. People want to improve their social status. Sometimes these ladies spend the husband’s money, use it all, then he’s cut out. There are many cases like that.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/25/world/asia/25iht-thai.html?_r=1

[Lyric]

1. “The women now know they are equal,”

*JAWDROP*

Yep, that one stunned me. My god--am I the only person here whose FIRST gut reaction to reading that was a deep desire to dash over there, find his wife, and rescue her?

:crazy:

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. Don't worry. She's gonna separate him from his money then rescue herself

[Lyric]

4. I hope so. I have no idea how Thai marriage laws treat women.

This really, truly makes me want to vomit. Those poor women. :(

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. The laws must be pretty relaxed because the article says many of the thai women, spend his $$, then

split

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. more from article

“For some ladies it is just money, money, money,” he said. “Getting married has become a business more than love. People want to improve their social status. Sometimes these ladies spend the husband’s money, use it all, then he’s cut out. There are many cases like that.”

[Confusious]

56. Those poor women?

Sounds like they know what they are getting into and how to work it. Not that I have much sympathy for the men in the group either.

One wants money, the other wants pliable. In the end, they both get screwed.

[mvccd1000]

70. "Those poor women..."

...will just about stab each other in the eye for a chance like that.

While I found the Thai culture in general to be incredibly friendly, respectful, and laid back, I also saw a lot of cutthroat, jealous competition among some women for the attentions of a western male, regardless of age or appearance.

There may be some advantage being taken, but it's certainly a two-way street, and I don't think the women will be coming out on the short end of things.

I can't wait to travel there again, but I won't be going alone. I think it will be much more fun with an "enlightened" American woman, even if she's aware that she has her own rights. :)

[girl gone mad]

19. I saw one of these mail-order bride couples at the supermarket several years ago.

The greybeard husband was pointedly scolding his very young looking Asian wife, who didn't seem to understand English very well, over her vegetable selections. She looked deeply unhappy. It was really creepy. I hope she wised up and got the hell out of that situation.

They have a reputation for being docile and eager to please, but I think these women tend to be a lot smarter and more self-interested than their American companions believe them to be.

[geek tragedy]

3. Yikes. It seems that the one thing everyone agrees upon there

is that marriage isn't a relationship of love and respect between two equal adults.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

14. Please explain how you got that from the two posts before yours. -nt

[geek tragedy]

69. I meant that the only thing everyone in the article

agrees on.

[Deep13]

7. Well, that's a vomit-inducing prospect. nt

[hlthe2b]

8. Pathetic...

RE: "For some ladies it is just money, money, money,” he said. “Getting married has become a business more than love. People want to improve their social status. Sometimes these ladies spend the husband’s money, use it all, then he’s cut out. There are many cases like that.”"

.... Cry me a river... :eyes:

[Sonicmedusa]

9. I'll bet these Asian women wished monied American men

were like they were 50 years ago, too- before all the erectile dysfunction drugs.

What pathetic little men.

[seabeyond]

10. The women now know they are equal,”. i dont know. just doesnt hurt my feelers.nt

[left coaster]

11. Ah, yes, Mr. Davis clearly pines for the good old days..

..when men were men, and women were appliances..

So, according to the article, men like Davis, are looking for an emotional connection? Uh huh.

[uncommon]

12. I'll take my freedom and knowing my worth over being owned any day, no matter how painful.

This guy, and those like him, can fuck off.

[Mad_Dem_X]

71. +1. I like being opinionated

And I like that my spouse recognizes me as a human being with thoughts and ideas of my own.

[Politicalboi]

13. I knew a man who did this in the early 90's

He was probably close to 60 and the woman in her 20's. They seemed happy, he worked for Warner Brothers for years, and had a lot of money. They moved to Thailand, built his fortress, with guards. I asked him "How do you trust the guards?" He didn't seeme to care. I don't know how it worked out for him. I do know from what they told me, that the Thai family gives towels as wedding gifts. Perhaps it's an inside joke for cry towels. LOL!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pinboy3niner]

16. Davis is a total jerk

He reminds me of other misogynistic American men to whom the freedom and independence of women is threatening. Some bride-shop abroad--in Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe, Latin America, or anywhere where they think they can find a 'submissive' woman.

After shopping, they'll choose a bride, marry, and bring the spouse to the U.S., where many will isolate their wives from the community to prevent their being 'Americanized' and liberated. These are abusive relationships, whether or not physical abuse ever occurs. This new trend of not bringing the brides home to the U.S. seems like just another way of limiting the possibility of liberation and assuring the wife will remain submissive.

These are economic transactions, and while some view these brides as golddiggers, my impression is that they usually are--quite understandably--seeking to improve the lot of their families, who usually are in economically limited circumstances or at some level of actual poverty.

I met one of these bride-shoppers some years ago. His social skills were somehat limited (which partially explains why he had trouble developing a romantic relationship here). He might not have become a bride-shopper, except that he met some people in the local Vietnamese community, and some Vietnamese friends of mine ended up helping him to communicate with a woman in Vietnam and to travel there to meet her. In that case, the plan fell apart (luckily for all) because continued communication involved repeated pleas for financial help for the prospective bride's family, and the guy really didn't have the economic wherewithal to be able to deliver.

I also know a married couple--An American man and a Vietnamese woman he met in Vietnam--who have a loving, happy marriage, and her being submissive was never a requirement of their relationship. There is an age difference, but not an extreme one.

He's a Vietnam vet who was a member of a 'one-hit wonder' band in the '50s (Danny and the Juniors, "At the Hop"). He decided to enlist in the Army, and signed away all his rights in the group's recordings for something like $15,000 and a brand-new Chevy. He did his training, including Special Forces, and President Kennedy personally presented him with his green beret (which, a couple decades later, he left at his brother's panel on the Vietnam Veterans' Memorial in D.C.).

My friend wasn't a bride-shopper. He met his wife on a tour to Vietnam with other VN vets, and he was enchanted. He pursued her and eventually married her and brought her home to our community. They've also built a home in Dalat, Vietnam, where they spend half their time, because it's important to his wife to be able to see her family.

This was intended originally to respond to a post in the deleted subthread from someone who said she'd never want her son to marry an Asian woman. The post was objectionable and was rightly deleted, but I'll post this anyway, for whatever it may be worth...

Love & Peace,
pinboy3niner

[ShamelessHussy]

31. thanks for sharing

i hope my son finds a woman who simply loves him, and he her... no matter her race, and considering how i have raised him, i would not be surprised if he did find that special woman outside his race.

:hi:

[flamingdem]

17. Different but similar: Western women are going to Jamaica, Belize, Cuba, to marry younger men

and getting the same approximate results. Some have 20-25 year age difference, the MEN are younger, and the MO is usually the same but more subtle. Some women settle in those countries with varying results. Seems like the closer the age and educational background the better the chances.

[seabeyond]

18. ah hahaha... true outsourcing of marriages, lol. what a hoot

what happens when we becoming totally connected to the world

and why not.

i will take jamaica ove thailand any time

[flamingdem]

20. The men who wait for the planeloads from mostly Canada are called Rent-a-Rastas

and they sound pretty ironic on the topic, aware of supply and demand! Outsourcing he he.

[pinboy3niner]

22. seabeyond looking for a new boy toy? I doubt it, but LOL!

Thanks for that! :rofl:

[seabeyond]

26. nah... my boytoy just keeps runnin and runnin. made in the u.s.a

the best.

wink

[pinboy3niner]

29. Buy American!

...as we American boys like to say...

wink

[Withywindle]

33. I disagree with you on the 'jamaica over thailand' thing.

I've been to Thailand; the culture there is very ancient and sophisticated (and it was the only country in SE Asia never colonized by a European power). There have been dynasties vying with each other for thousands of years, just like in Europe.

There are amazing libraries; there are monasteries with art as old as that of the European Middle Ages but much better kept up--Thailand never had a Dark Ages when most of the population was illiterate like Europe did. The traiditional music is actually kind of hard to track down on CD, but SO well worth the effort.

I hate hot weather and wouldn't go to either for the climate. Not into sitting around on the beach while I get sunburned (which happens quickly). But Thailand wins over Jamaica hands down for historical interest.

[seabeyond]

35. bugs and humidity... just say no. and i agree, not into the heat so both would be a no anyway

but bugs and humidity....

cant/wont do.

jamaica may have that, but directly on beach and weighing it, guessin less in jamaica. that is all. lol

i am beyond sittin on the beach getting toasted. but i do love sittin under shade, looking out at beach, or brisk walking in teh sand for exercise.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. Not me

I was lucky enough to find an Italian man living in America, doing business in America, creating (he's an artist too), in America but still has his Italian citizenship. And he's Calabrian to boot! So he's not a mamoni (Mama's boy) - i.e. he cooks like crazy, works hard, etc. etc. Calabrians (being around this community of Residents in Central NJ) are sweet heart 'helper' men. :-)

My friends kid me (I only run in liberal circles) that "You are so lucky you found a guy with state health insurance!" :rofl:

Okay okah - so I'm mad crazy in love with the guy but he DOES have property and citizenship in Italy and I DO have ankylosing spondylitis so who could hold it against me if his Health Insurance makes him extra hot and attractive! :rofl:

[Hello_Kitty]

21. Oh good god. eom

[Manifestor_of_Light]

23. Program on now on NatGeo about Russian mail order brides.

Man: "These Eastern European women aren't spoiled by feminism. They don't know about equality. They want to be treated like women and ladies."

I guess they want a woman who is a full time housekeeper/waitress and doormat that you get to have sex with as a benefit.

They also pointed out that many of these mail order bride marriages are abusive and cited one man that killed his Russian mail order bride.


They said that with 2000 women clients, one particular Russian agency, only about EIGHT of the women get engaged per year. Hmmmm.....

Sometimes the women rip off the men for money and then don't come to America, too.

[Lorien]

44. I have a good friend who married a Russian mail order bride

My friend is an inker for several major comic book distributors, he's a short hispanic guy, really nice, bright, but a bit of a geek. He tried for years on Match.com and other sites to find someone, but once they found out about his job, height, and love of collecting comics and related items they wanted nothing to do with him. His wife came from a very grim Russian city. Her whole family lived in a two room apartment, it was cold and gray most of the year. When my buddy went to meet her in her hometown he was shocked and appalled by the way the Russian men treated the women there. It outraged him (he's very liberal). She loved him, her family loved him, so they married about a year later and now live in Florida. She loves it here. They have two kids, both happy and well adjusted. Their marriage is very equal (actually, she calls the shots more often than not). I actually met my friend on a blind date 15 or 16 years ago and there was no chemistry there, but we hit it off as friends. I'm so glad to see him so happy now. They always have me over for Thanksgiving dinner and one year he joked to me "Hey, we need to get you a Russian husband!" His wife looked at him open mouthed for a minute then said loudly "No! They're horrible! Why do you think that we all want to come here? They're so mean, and they're drunks!!" He apologized and said he was only joking. I'm sure that many "Mail order bride" situations go badly, but that one has worked out really well for them both.

[Hello_Kitty]

52. Nerdy and non "hot" women are SOL when it comes to dating.

Men, regardless of how they look, are entitled to the sexual and romantic attentions of conventionally attractive women. Entire industries have been created to cater to that sense of entitlement.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

72. you hit a sore spot for me

This truism -- and even more so, the cultural currency it enjoys-- pisses me off righteously.

I've been hot, and due to childhood disease, I've been *ahem* "not", and I can declare from experience, that it is not pleasant to be a plain or unattractive girl (especially if you're timid, which I was).

hmmm now that I think about it, the fear/timidity seems to be an especially tempting lure for bullies, regardless of appearance....

[Blue_Tires]

67. Someone I know actually did the opposite a few months back

Granted, he's a younger guy in his mid-20s, but he was from Cleveland and dirt poor with no job prospects...He met an eastern European girl and went with her back home (either Romania or Bulgaria iirc) and married her without knowing a single thing about the language or culture...He's also african-american, so I was especially shocked at the prospect of him going over there on a whim to stay...

But so far I hear he and his wife are happy, her family has welcomed him, and he's trying to work through the language/culture issues so he can get employed...

[BlancheSplanchnik]

73. I love this story!

:D Made me smile!

[KakistocracyHater]

24. he must have missed WW2, when all those smart & strong American women

helped us win the war..........dumbass.

[Odin2005]

25. This is creepy and disgusting.

[HEyHEY]

62. Yeah, you meet these creepos all over Asia

It's a pain in the ass if you happen to have an Asian girlfriend cause you automatically get lumped in with them.

[Odin2005]

63. I have a friend with a Chinese fiance with the same problem.

He works in China doing English-to-Chinese translation for Western companies.

[HEyHEY]

64. I was in Vietnam with my GF last summer

And we were on a weekend cruise kinda deal in Halong bay. My GF is very affectionate and always has her hands all over me, like rubbing my back or something, it's just how she is. However, it makes me look like some kinda creep that specifically went to China to find a woman who caters to my ego. And that ain't the case, she's certainly not one of these women who smiles and nods all the time, believe me I know!

But some of the looks I was getting from westerners on the boat were not cool.

[RandomThoughts]

27. Guess it is best to have unlimited money and not thinking in money concepts then.

[Jack_DeLeon]

28. I dont see a problem with it...

marriage really isnt all that, however if you are going to tie yourself down with another person for the rest of your life why not do that with the kind of person you want to.

These men obviously want a certain type of women so why fault them for going for what they want. Women do the same.

[DeltaLitProf]

30. There's another message board for you elsewhere.

I expect that in that message board no one will have a problem with viewing women as things to be picked out like shoes or barbecue grills. Take it from me, life is better if you realize that women are changing, living beings with whom (if she agrees) you can partner to share your burdens, your joys and your routines.

They're not accessories. They're not materials. They're not items on menus.

[Democat]

32. Did you happen to read the entire article?

Many of the women also see the men as objects to be exploited. Read the entire thing.

[seabeyond]

36. that is generally, alomsot always how it works. use and be used. karmacly, it cant

happen any other way

[seabeyond]

37. *sigh*

a man can say it... and then he can say it and a woman can know that he truly gets it.

thanks for this post

[cleanhippie]

39. and yet you JUST referred to your partner as a "boytoy."

Pot and kettle reference, I think.

[seabeyond]

40. yes i did. and it was all as serious as.... nothing. it was an absurd post to say the least

again

some say, and then some say....

it is pretty obvious. but hey, go for it, lol. i am pretty comfortable in my respect of men, at the top of the list, the men/boys in my life. not really worried about the black pot of kettle

[cleanhippie]

41. And I do not doubt your sincerity.

But you have been very quick to jump on others for making innocuous comments like that as misogynists, being disrespectful, etc.

I knew what you meant, just as I think you know what others mean when they make comments similar to yours, yet quite frequently, you hammer them for it.

Thats the point I was trying to make.

[seabeyond]

42. oh, bullshit.... but, because of you i got a cute little conversation with hubby if he is ok

with being a boytoy and if bothered i would delete cause god knows, i wouldnt want any hypocrisy.

oh his cheeks flamed and did some struttin....

[cleanhippie]

43. You seem to be missing the point.

I have no problem with your usage of "boytoy", especially in the context you used it in.


My point was....oh fuck it, you're smart enough to know what I am saying. I think I have been very clear.

See you in the next thread.

[seabeyond]

45. lol, yes i am smart enough to not miss your point, just think it is an incorrect point

i have never been opposed to tease, obvious joking. i am opposed to misogynism. there is a difference. a tease on sex, or mate, or whatever is fine. but we all know, though some like to pretend otherwise, when it goes to disrespect. as much as people would like to color me prude, i am far from it. sorry YOU dont get the difference.

[cleanhippie]

46. Fair enough.

I just hope that the next time you jump on someone else for doing the same thing, even after they say they were just teasing, you will remember this conversation.

[seabeyond]

47. again, i will say

i am confident everyone knows the line. and no, i do not believe i am closed minded and dont listen to a person. many a times, when people have come back and clarified, on many issues.... i have said thanks, appreciate clarification and got on with life. i wont own something i am not. i work hard at being fair. something important to me.

[cleanhippie]

51. Sounds good.

:toast:

[HEyHEY]

61. While I agree, are the men not also being used here?

I'll stop short of saying they deserve each other, cause most of these women are just going after a better life, and if you grew up there you would too. However, there does seem to be an arrangement of mutual exploitation here.

[JCMach1]

34. We call these ATM marriages in Dubai

i.e the husband is the ATM...

[seabeyond]

38. and the woman is the__________? nt

[JCMach1]

48. cha ching...

[seabeyond]

49. ya. nt

[queenjane]

53. I know 2 guys who got "screwed" (pardon the pun) by their mail order brides

The 1st was an IT guy in his 50s, bald, no personal hygiene to speak of, who'd been married several times. He said American women were "too materialistic" and "only wanted men for their money" (remember this for later). He selected 5 women out of a catalog (this was in the late 80s, before the convenience of the Internets). All were from the Phillipines. After corresponding with them for about 6 months, he narrowed it to 2, flew over to meet them, made his selection, and then promptly got fleeced by the woman lucky enough to be his Numero Uno. He gave her $10,000 to help her uncle start a business there, then flew back to the U.S. to wait for her Visa to come through. She never showed--but did keep the money. An optimistic fellow, he then proposed to the runner-up selection, who consented to marry him. I met her right after she arrived here; she was VERY young, poor English. I lost track of them after I left the company, but I was disgusted by the whole thing. Using these poor, young women to serve your fantasies of entitlement, yuck.

The 2nd was the son of a friend of mine. The son had a degenerative muscle disease, and was confined to a wheelchair. The mail order bride was his father's idea; that way, they'd have a "wife/nurse" to take care of him. (Note: when the father--who was divorced from my friend--flew to the Phillipines to pick up their selection, he found a mail order bride for himself, as well.) Anyway, turns out the bride was looking for a way to get to the States, and about 3 months after she married my friend's son, she took off to the Midwest to live with her aunt. The family immediately tried to get the marriage annulled so they could go pick up ANOTHER woman from the Phillipines. The second selection actually was a good "wife" to my friend's son as he died a slow and truly horrific death; later, she fell in love with another man in the community, had a child, and, I hear, is quite happy. So I guess it worked out for her.

[flamingdem]

59. Yes. Some end happily at some end unexpectedly well

Judge not lest thee be judged!

[Fleshdancer]

54. I met an American in Thailand who has two Thai wives.

The wives are probably less than half his age and he provides financial support for them and their parents. It's beyond gross to me, but they're all consenting adults.

Marrying for money must feel awful.

[Jack_DeLeon]

55. Most everybody sells their body in one way or another....

[seabeyond]

57. no. nt

[Prometheus Bound]

58. I notice the writer left out the happy 14-year marriage at the end of the video.

At 3:50 they interview the German farmer and his Thai businesswoman wife. But it's all positive and happy, so it doesn't fit the writer's negative conclusion and he leaves it out of the article.

[HEyHEY]

60. Ugh, I see these dudes all the time, mostly on trips to Hong Kong

They're so creepy.

[Prometheus Bound]

65. I would really like to know what some people find disgusting about this.

1. OK you have a twice-divorced retired sailor with some antiquated ideas about relationships. He's pathetic.

2. The girls are quite assertive and aggressive in pursuing foreign men, according to the writer.

3. About half of the marriages end in divorce. (Is it so much worse than in the US?)

4. Many of the men are retired, living on pensions, divorced and looking for an emotional connection.

5. The men are expected to help support their wife's family.

6. There is not much concern about differences in age.

7. Some women are just interested in money. They spend their husband's money and dump them.

8. The retired teacher watches TV, cooks his own hamburgers, helps raise his stepdaughter and son and tries to help out with his wife's family. His wife thinks he is a good man.

9. The writer leaves out the happy 14-year marriage between the German farmer and his businesswoman wife, including the sweet picture of their evening together in the barn.

So there is the story and video in a nutshell. Aside from #1, what is it that some people find so vile?

[seabeyond]

66. i think number one did it for about everyone. nt

[Prometheus Bound]

74. I guess. But it was just one man out of 11,000 such marriages in the area.

Some of the comments really sound intolerant.

[seabeyond]

75. like anyone gives a shit what people are doing in their personal life and in

some other country.

hubby and i got a good giggle from the boytoy comment above, and that is about all it is worth.

[Prometheus Bound]

76. agree

[uncommon]

68. My issue was with the "silly women were happy when they were property" bullshit.