Just had the pleasure of telling a car dealer, they didn't get the sale because of FAUX News

[mod mom]

Last night we purchased our second Prius. The first one was purchased from a Toyota Dealer based on availability (in '06 you had to wait for a Prius). When I have had my car serviced at this dealer, they have FOX News on their TV in the customer waiting room. I have complained to a desk clerk and the set was changed to CNN. First time it happened, shortly after the change a manager came by and asked "why was the station changed?" She were told it was because a customer complained. I smiled at the angered manager. The next and final time I went to have my car serviced their I found FOX on again.

This time we shopped around based on models with options. Two dealers about the same distance from us had the model available. The dealer we purchased our 1st Prius from came in close to $100 cheaper than another dealer, when they heard we were negotiating with a competitor. We went with the slightly more expensive car because of the airing of FOX News. I just received great pleasure in informing the salesman who just called from the FOX airing dealership that we purchased our car from his competitor and that although it was slightly more expensive, it was their airing of FOX News that lost them the deal. I asked him to please pass this information on to his management. I told him we were insulted that they would air a station which such disregard for the truth. I told him I was passing this on to my Prius loving friends (many of our friends drive Priuses).

:)

[hlthe2b]

1. Good on you... We're proud of you.

That's putting your $$ where your mouth is.



BTW, since you are in Ohio, I assume you do some snow driving in your Prius? I know that they need better tires than stock in order to make it in the winter time, but have you had problem with battery stalling out due to cold or having it get snow-banked? How's it do?

[mod mom]

8. I live in Columbus and have never had problems driving in the snow.

Previously from near the WI/IL border so I'm used to dealing with snow. We had the original tires on the '06 until just recently when we changed them at 59,000 miles. We love our 1st Prius and got the second because living w 1 car was becoming increasingly impossible w hubbie's job. We drove only Saab turbos before the Prius and thought we would miss the acceleration & traction. The only thing I miss is the heated seats (which Prius now offers but only w leather seats which I hate).

I get around 49-51 around town, so this was the major factor in choosing a car for us.

[greenman3610]

35. my Prius runs thru snow like a champ

I drove it through the worst blizzard in Michigan memory shortly after buying it.
(standard off the shelf tires)
The freeway was closed, plows were pulled off the road.
We blasted thru grill high drifts and made a 180 mile round trip.
I'm a big prius booster.

[hlthe2b]

110. Wow...

I know there are some in Colorado who commute distances along the I-70 mountain corridor in a Prius, so obviously they are getting through. What year is your Prius?

[Romulox]

182. No offense, but when was this alleged "worst blizzard in Michigan memory"?

:eyes:

[happygoluckytoyou]

223. ran like a champ? the champ was the worst car ever

[paulkienitz]

208. They should know better than to try to sell Prii with republicanism

I mean, who but a dirty pinko hippie would even want to buy one of those?


...well actually, my Republican boss has one. He doesn't even believe in global warming, but he liked it enough as a car to buy it. (Used.)

[peace frog]

256. Well done, BUT one suggestion:

Call the manager yourself and tell him/her why you went with their competitor. Don't assume the salesperson will pass this information up, just because you requested it. Make certain management knows why they lost the sale. And good job!

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Nice job. Hit them squarely in the wallet.

Maybe they'll understand that language.

:thumbsup:

[madmax]

3. You rock!

I respect and admire you to the moon and back.

In these time 100 bucks is 100 bucks and you proved that you will stick to your principles - even if your wallet took a hit. :applause: :woohoo:

:hug:

[stuntcat]

4. damn right!

:headbang:

[Dappleganger]

5. Good for you!

It's a shame how all that could be avoided just by only showing the FOOD network channel. y'know?

[Maru Kitteh]

6. That must have felt really, really GOOD. n/t

[Brickbat]

7. But...you bought a Prius.

:rofl:

[Mudoria]

91. I second that

:rofl:

[frogmarch]

9. Great work!

I read your post aloud to Mr. froggie, and he too likes your way of doing business. :thumbsup:

[City Lights]

10. Nice job!

:fistbump: :yourock:

Kudos to you for sticking to your principles and for speaking out!

[seabeyond]

11. wow, cool. and good for you. nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

12. I need to contact my YMCA

Night after night I'm on the treadmill and one of the damned TV's is tuned to Fox News. Granted, I set my audio for one of the other channels, but I still have to look at O'Reilly's face and there's still closed-captioning of his bullshit that I really can't avoid.

Last night...

Ta Da!

I got to work out to Keith and Rachel. Fox News was still on another TV, but at least I had ab intelligent option for once.

I need to call them and thank them for giving an alternative to Fox News, because I know the Republican Asshats in my neighborhood will call to complain.

[mod mom]

13. One more kick...the dealership owner lives around the corner from me

and although we don't usually leave the dealer name plate on the license plate, I am going to this time. The asshole, who lives in a huge gated house, had a frickin McCain/Palin sign in his lawn during the '08. Seems he only cares about taxes.

[madmax]

14. Fabuloso!!

:rofl:

K&R You made my day.

[RKP5637]

15. That's Great!!! Well done!!! n/t

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[thereismore]

16. Awesome! Thank you. nt

[OZark Dem]

17. Too bad you couldn't get a Ford instead.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Why?

Does Ford make a car that gets the same mileage as the Prius? I did a lot of research for months before buying my Prius and I couldn't find any other car that gets 50 mpg.

[Barack_America]

257. There's these things called jobs.

And a lot of Americans are looking for them. A lot of Americans who used to work in the manufacturing sector.

I can understand wanting to get a car with the best possible gas mileage, but to incredulously ask "why?" a poster would state they wished someone would support American manufacturing is insulting. You know why.

[Spider Jerusalem]

301. That's a two way street.

If American manufacturing doesn't supply the needs of American consumers...then people will look elsewhere. I have no doubt that a lot of people wished American manufacturers actually built things they'd want to buy, too. If Ford or GM or Chrysler had more fuel efficient hybrid and turbo-diesel vehicles, more people would be buying them instead of Priuses; they don't, so people won't. That simple really.

[Romulox]

306. Right, but that applies to YOU, too!

Whatever you do, I bet it could be done much cheaper by somebody elsewhere. Outsourcing will not have gone too far when it claims your job.

You're just like the poster, downthread, who said that she didn't like American cars because they were "too inefficient". She didn't get it when I pointed out that she, herself was quite inefficient, as compared to an Indian or Chinese worker. She didn't get why I would bring that point up. Do you? :hi:

[Spider Jerusalem]

319. I don't live in the US.

Also, I happen to be unemployed. And probably unemployable. I am autistic, with many associated issues which make regular employment in a routine job difficult at best and impossible at worst. Thanks for making assumptions though. And, American companies could make more efficient cars! They can't make cheaper workers, because of the standard of living mismatch, but that's something else again. The GM and Ford products sold in Europe get much better average fuel economy than those sold in the US. So you have a faulty analogy anyway.

[doc03]

22. I'll second that n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. Good for you

I bought a Prius on Labor Day. Love it.

[sufrommich]

19. Oh, the irony. You bypassed buying a union made car on

labor day.

[uncommon]

23. For what it's worth, a lot of "foreign" cars are assembled in the US and Canada.

My old Honda was made in Canada, not Japan.

[sufrommich]

26. Most are assembled using non union labor and they all

love the southern "right to work" states.

[Mimosa]

158. Southern 'right to work states' Like Indiana?

A lot of Subarus are made in Indiana.

[OZark Dem]

159. And the profit goes to Japan.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. My Toyota was made in Oregon

And Fords are made in Mexico. Go figure.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

251. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

260. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[doc03]

37. The Prius is assembled in Japan with 100% Japanese

materials. I have considered buying a hybrid but to me the premium you pay for the hybrid surpasses the extra cost for fuel by far as long as the gas stays under $4.00. Of course if your principal reason is to help the environment it may be worth it to you. I am not even sure you help the environment when you consider the extra carbon fuel consumed to produce the batteries and what about the disposal of those batteries?

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. The paperwork on my car says Oregon

According to the dealer Toyota began assembling the Prius in Oregon less than a year ago.

[sufrommich]

42. Your paperwork probably says that it's point of arrival

from Japan was Oregon. There are no Prius made in the US.

[doc03]

45. Google "where the Prius is made". On June 10, 2008 Toyota

announced it would start assembling the Prius in a plant in Blue Stone, Miss in 2010. On December 16, 2008 Toyota scraped the plan to build them here because of the decline in auto sales. Oregon is probably the port of entry Toyota has no plants in that state..

[tammywammy]

66. Does your VIN start with a J? Then it was made in Japan.

US made vehicles start with a 1, 4 or 5. (2 - Canada, 3 - Mexico)

Oregon was the port of entry.

[LiberalAndProud]

127. I didn't know this.

I'm looking at a list of VINs right now. Hyundai (5)- apparently union made, Nissan (3) - fended off the UAW, as far as I can tell.

Where was a vehicle with a VIN beginning with W manufactured? Just curious.

[tammywammy]

140. W is Germany n/t

[SheilaT]

233. Thank you for that information on VIN numbers.`

I now know that my Honda was made in the Cananda

[quiller4]

196. There are no Toyota assembly facilities in Oregon

However, Toyota Logistics moved into new headquarters at the Port of Portland which is a $40 million import processing facility. Your stickers just mean your car traveled from Japan to the US and entered this country through the import processing facility in Portland.

[diane in sf]

172. the batteries are recyclable

[abelenkpe]

197. What?

My Jetta had a higher monthly payment than the prius and only got 21 mpg.

[tammywammy]

226. Yeah, but it's a way better car

tammywammy - Volkswagen lover :)

[abelenkpe]

317. Yeah I used to think that too

:) Loved my jetta. But the new Prius is sweet. And smart.

Enjoy your ride :)

[revolution breeze]

48. There were plans to open a plant in Blue Springs, MS

but when sales did not meet expectations, that idea was scrapped.

[Codeine]

170. No, your Prius was not made in Oregon.

They're made in Japan for all markets except the domestic Chinese market, where they have a second facility.

Busted.

[Bluenorthwest]

264. Um, they don't make Toyotas in Oregon

We wish they did, they don't.

[olegramps]

275. Where in Oregon? Bull.

[Kalyke]

116. But the profits go back to Japan.

It doesn't help this country one wit.

Even if you pay American workers, they turn around and purchase more Japanese and Chinese shit and that profit goes overseas, as well.

We need American options.

[opiate69]

210. "t doesn't help this country one wit."

Bullshit.. Toyota's Portland operation saved 200 - mostly union - jobs in Portland. Not nearly as ideal as returning our manufacturing base to it's former glory, but it certainly helped those Americans.

[tammywammy]

227. It does

It helps the salespeople, the service techs, the cashiers, etc all those people that work at a dealership. There's more to cars than just the factories. When you purchase a vehicle you're directly helping the salesperson, finance, etc that you dealt with, and following if you take your vehicle to the dealer for service.

[Frisbee]

245. There is one... Fusion Hybrid is an EXCELLENT Option. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. I spent 6 months making this decision and am quite comfortable with it

Sadly there are no union made vehicles that come close to the gas mileage of the Prius. Toss in the oil spill in the Gulf and a new job that is a longer commute and I found my best choice was the Prius. It was made in the USA which was the final decision maker for me. When the union makes a car that gets 50 mpg I'll consider trading in my Prius. In the meantime I'm enjoying the ride.

[Romulox]

33. UNION: Whatever! (And the Prius is not made in the USA--you're flat wrong.)

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. So the paperwork IN the car AND the dealer were lying?

Wow. I think I'll go back to the dealer and tell them an anonymous person on the Internet is calling them a liar.

[Romulox]

47. Picture of the tag on the door or you're flat fabricating.

Assembly Tsutsumi, Japan (Toyota City)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. It says Manufactured by Toyota - in July 2010

Nice try but I'm not posting my VIN number on the Internet. LOL

[Romulox]

58. What's the first letter of the VIN? You should know enough to be embarrassed by now, btw.

:hi:

[Romulox]

61. BTW, the first letter of the VIN is "J". nt

[tammywammy]

78. The Moroney wasn't lying

You're not understanding that Oregon was the port of entry. Your VIN starts with a J, it was made in Japan.

edited: I found a 2010 Moroney

[Obamanaut]

202. Or open your screen door and let your barking dog intimidate them. nt

[olegramps]

279. Your inability to accept the fact that it was made in Oregon explains your choice.

[olegramps]

280. Your inability to accept the fact that it was made in Oregon explains your choice.

[doc03]

40. You're right I have never seen a Prius that was made in the USA

the ones I have seen say they are assembled in Japan with 100% Japanese content. Maybe they have started building them here lately but I don't think so.

[ingac70]

194. The content isn't 100% Japanese.

Some of that is made with child labor in Myanmar (Burma)

http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3796/

[Kalyke]

118. Bullshit.

For about the same mileage (and the difference is so small that your personal driving habits could change it), you could have had an American-profit-rendering Ford Focus that, btw, is MUCH MUCH MUCH nicer to look at than that ugly POS that looks like something Glenda the Good Witch would travel in (hint: bubbles).

[grace0418]

142. You're confusing your opinion with actual facts.

I think the Focus is the best looking Ford, but that's because I think most other Fords look pretty ugly and dated. I vastly prefer the looks of the Prius, and I prefer the Honda Fit over that. But that's just personal opinion, not fact.

[kath]

193. Perhaps they've improved recently, but our 2004 Focus gets a VERY shitty 23-24 mpg

- this is a mixture of highway and city driving. Such crap mileage for such a small car. VERY disappointing.

[GoCubsGo]

326. The 2011 model gets 24/35 MPG

The previous two or three years have had comparable rates. Those could probably be improved, depending on one's driving habits. I get a full 5 MPG more on my 14 year-old Ford than what the sticker said because of that.

[Name removed]

324. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sailor65]

183. Hilarious

Maybe we should likewise hire more non-union teachers because we can save some money with them.

You're just plain busted.

:rofl:

[msanthrope]

218. Then why don't you show the same respect you demand to parents who choose non-union schools?

Perhaps they've made six-month calculations. Perhaps they've considered all the options...

[Bluenorthwest]

271. Your car was not made in the US. I too drive Toyota.

But you are wrong. Deal with it.

[msanthrope]

41. So it's "Union for me, not for Thee?"

if the irony of buying a non-union car on Labor Day escapes you, then how about this--

You constantly and consistently post on this forum regarding your precious teacher's union--and how parents' and politicians' support of charters is undermining unions...

You seem to hold yourself exempt from supporting unions when your livelihood is not at stake--apparently your consumer purchases get a pass, but parents, who are entrusted with getting their kids a good education should bow down and entrust what is most dear to them--their children--to union members.

If you cannot trust a union product, then how can you expect parents to do so?

[sufrommich]

43. I see that a lot here. nt

[Brickbat]

98. Yup.

Solidarity goes only so far for some people.

[Codeine]

169. Hooray for union-busting.

Jesus christ, is this really DU?

[Romulox]

178. Lame that you didn't admit your error after all of that.

It's a sign of low integrity. :hi:

[NoGOPZone]

269. Said the "Deep South right to work" poster

:rofl:

[Romulox]

283. I stand by that statement though

The vast majority of "made in USA" Toyotas are made in Deep South right to work states.

[NoGOPZone]

289. I'm not so sure even your revised statement is correct

Texas makes the Tacoma and the Tundra. Mississippi is going to get the Corolla. The Highlander, Sienna, Sequoia, Camry, and Avalon are assembled in Kentucky and Indiana. Viewing some old sales figures, those models sell fairly well. Of course it depends how you're defining 'vast majority'. Perhaps you can specify if I'm able to come up with more recent figures. ;-)


http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/16/207453.html

[Romulox]

292. Without offering any data to the contrary, your unsuredness is of no interest.

:hi:

[NoGOPZone]

294. Try reading the post!

:rofl:

P.S.

I believe that one is know as 'demanding negative proof'

[Romulox]

297. I read the post; it didn't contain data supporting your assertion.

"I believe that one is know as 'demanding negative proof'"

No. When you make an assertion, and then someone asks you for data to support it, the absence of such data is not called "demanding negative proof" (who taught you how to use quotation marks, by the way?). It just means that you can't back up your argument with any data.

At any rate, you're a cheap-labor bore at this point. Come up with something interesting to say, or risk loosing my interest entirely. :shrug:

[NoGOPZone]

299. I think the question is

who taught you how to spell 'losing'. Are the quotes correct there? :rofl:

Now as

[NoGOPZone]

303. As for the rest of your post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

demanding negative proof - attempting to avoid the burden of proof for some claim by demanding proof of the contrary from whoever questions that claim

An example. Someone offers the revised argument that the "vast majority" (quotes used to indicate directly copied material) of Toyotas made in the US are built in the Deep South. Someone questions that assertion and the first person chides the respondent for not offering any data to the contrary.

Although I can understand how being corrected so often would cause you to lose interest.

[Romulox]

307. Keep it to one post, please. This is your third concurrent post on the subject.

You're no logician. You don't even have a firm grasp of the terms. At any rate, it's not interesting to me. Bring it back on topic or I am checking out.

[NoGOPZone]

310. What topic is that?

the use of quotation marks? :rofl:

Your attempt at definition without sources?

Your initial incorrect statement about Toyota plants and Deep South right to work states?

Your current unproven one about the vast majority of Toyotas built in the US being made there?

Your pick. You're failing at each one.

[Romulox]

314. I am not interested in characterization arguments about whether Indiana is "Deep South" or not.

It's tangental to any point of substance here on this thread.

"Your pick. You're failing at each one."

[NoGOPZone]

315. So now you think this thread is about whether or not Indiana is a Deep South state?

:crazy:

[Divine Discontent]

221. you're not being obnoxious about buying a non-Union made vehicle are you? I'd hope not, that's

quite nasty if you are. There's nothing wrong with buying whatever car you want, but if you're mockingly saying you bought it on Labor Day, it seems childish. Apologies if that's not what you're doing...

[donheld]

229. I guess you've learned to get your purchases DU approved from now on.

I guess we have to get permission on what we buy and where we buy it from now on.
I wasn't aware we needed anonymous fools approval of what we buy but I guess we do. :eyes:

[msanthrope]

276. The poster in question is pro_her union, as any education

thread will show you. And you should read what she has to say about nonunion teachers and the parents that use them.

[grace0418]

282. And the ONLY thing that matters is if it's union made.

And I'm sure all the members of the "Buy Union Made American Cars or Else" club exclusively purchase organic, locally grown produce and fair-trade coffee because they wouldn't want slave-wage laborers picking their food. And all of their clothing and household items are American made by union workers, because they wouldn't dare support a sweat shop in China. And naturally they never step foot in stores that won't allow their workers to unionize.

I mean, they'd have to be squeaky clean in this regard to vehemently throw stones at those who let a variety of factors inform their major purchases.

[olegramps]

274. Talk about being your own worst enemy.

[sufrommich]

20. Next you should explain to union members why you

refused to buy one of their cars.

[mod mom]

24. we certainly would have purchased an American car had a model equalled the gas mileage.

No car comes close to the Prius in fuel efficiency, not even the Honda which is built locally.

[grace0418]

30. What makes me so angry is that Honda is rolling out the Fit in hybrid, everywhere but the US.

They claim they have the Insight in the US and that's good enough. SOOOO not the same thing at all. I've wanted a Fit for years, but my 1999 Civic is just too darn reliable and isn't going to wear out any time soon. However, if we have a kid I will sell my 2 door Civic and get a car better suited to a baby seat. The Fit would be great, but would be PERFECT if it were hybrid. Grrrrr...

[sufrommich]

31. You could have bought the Ford Fusion Hybrid that compares

favorably to the Prius.

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Ford_Fusion-Hybrid/

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. 41 mpg

Prius is 50 mpg

[sufrommich]

73. Because an extra 9 miles a gallon is worth union busting

consumption, right?

[mod mom]

63. Add 10 more mpg for city driving and we'd have considered.

I get 51 around town which is by far the majority of my driving:

MPG: 41 City / 36 Hwy
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/Affordable-Midsize-Cars/

I get 51/49

[doc03]

72. Why didn't you buy a scooter? I get 65 MPG. Oh by the way

you want to buy a scooter?

[mod mom]

108. because I have 2 kids & 2 dogs to haul around and Ohio winters are cold.

As for hubbie, he went through a major spinal chord injury (c3-c6) that lead him to spend almost the entire summer of '09 in the hospital/spinal rehab facility, and 3 major surgeries as a result from a fall off a kids razor scooter so scooters are banned from our household.

That said, I love vespas.

[MattBaggins]

137. Now that was funny

[Kalyke]

119. The Ford Fusion Hybrid does and looks nicer, too.

Don't give me that malarkey.

Fusion


Nice and sleek.

Prius


God, it's even UGLIER in 2010!! It looks like a dead cartoon rabbit without ears.

[Hepburn]

130. Sorry....

...but the Ford looks dated ~~ like from the 1980s.

[grace0418]

135. We recently had a Fusion as a rental. It was brand new, only 900 miles.

Was not impressed at all with the construction or the handling. Felt cheap and poorly made. As far as looks go, that is completely subjective so that's a weird argument.

[mod mom]

154. Fusion 41/36 VS Prius 51/48 (and that's what I get w my '06)

as far a your photo, that's a Prius concept not the real car. Even if you don't like the looks (I like quirky-I drove a saab before this), I chose my car for 2 reasons: 1. fuel efficiency & 2. reliability. 10 + miles per gallon matters to me.

[boppers]

236. Ford was racist, Nazi supporting, scum.

Hence, I will never buy a Ford.

[Romulox]

265. LOL. But I bet you just luuurve your New Beetle, huh?

:rofl:

[GoCubsGo]

327. Oh, good god.

Henry Ford has been dead for more than sixty years. The company has nothing to do with him now. Oh, and BTW, Ford was was first automaker (and the only?) to afford benefits to gay and lesbian partners.

[NoGOPZone]

278. Appearance is subjective

However, it's pretty hard to argue with a 0.25 coefficient of drag. Another reason to hate GM for killing the EV-1. Let's hope the Volt doesn't suffer a similar fate.

[grace0418]

27. That's easy: "Sorry, but I need a car that has superior gas mileage and reliability."

Even with Toyota's recent troubles, their reliability still can only be matched by Honda. And when you're talking about a purchase that's thousands and thousands of dollars, I'm not going to settle for a car that's going to give me years of trouble. Every Ford my family had was nothing but trouble. Every Honda I've had (well, only two because they last forever) has been the most reliable vehicle I could have ever wanted.

[sufrommich]

34. Really? It's that easy? That's sad. nt

[grace0418]

46. It is sad. It's sad that I'm expected to throw thousands of dollars and thousands of dollars out

the window in maintenance and replacement costs, not to mention how many additional gallons of gas every week in order to be considered worthy by American car advocates (not that I spend a lot of time worrying about that).

In an ideal world, all purchases I make will be American made, fair-trade, eco-friendly, pro-labor and superior quality–or as many of those criteria as possible. And I'm happy to pay more for those criteria, even if I have to save up or cut back to do so. I don't believe in the Walmart shopper's philosophy of low price over all else.

I will pay more for organic, fair-trade food because not only does it support the labor growing/producing it, it supports the environment and it's superior in quality.

I will spend more money at local shops that make their own products because it cuts down on the environmental impact, keeps money in the community, and pays the producer a fair wage.

Heck, I'll even spend more on American made, organic cotton clothing that isn't necessarily superior in quality because I know the people producing it are being paid a fair wage and it's good for the environment. It doesn't cost that much more so if it shrinks into a weird shape after 5 or 6 washings I won't be too upset. I can make rags out of it after that.

But I draw the line at purchasing something that is not eco-friendly, not superior quality, will not last as long, and will cost me thousands more over the lifetime of the product just because it meets the one criteria of being made by union labor.

[Romulox]

50. "rationalization". (Same logic applies to you and your worth, btw.)

You're a LOT less eco-friendly than a worker in India or China, for example.

[grace0418]

75. Uh, what? I call it priorities, but whatevs.

Not sure when I ever compared myself to a worker in India or China, nor do I see the relevance. I'm an American and so are you. We can only do the best we can as Americans. Ideally we should probably be living off the grid and riding bikes everywhere and this discussion would be moot. All we can do is make choices based on a number of priorities we consider important. I can't meet every priority in my life with every purchase. I try to meet as many of them as possible. So when something that costs over $15,000 only meets one priority, that's just not good enough for me.

If that's good enough for you then so be it.

[sufrommich]

54. Ford Fusion Hybrid wins 2010 Car of the Year

http://www.grist.org/article/2010-01-11-ford-fusion-hybrid-wins-2010-car-of-the-year-no-green-spin/

But hey, you just keep telling those union workers that it's still not good enough.

[grace0418]

71. I can only go with my family's experience at having to replace an engine after 3 years

on one Ford (that was carefully maintained), having another Ford that died after 4 years and would have cost more to fix it than it was worth, and having a third Ford (my dad never learned) that was in the shop easily once a month. Contrast that with my husband's family's 1981 Civic that ran perfectly until it was totaled in 2003 by a newly emigrated relative who was learning how to drive. Or our 91 Accord that we sold to a family member and still runs great. Or our 1999 Civic that runs perfectly even in the dead of winter and costs us very little to maintain.

The Subaru we own won all kinds of awards too, but I'm personally not impressed with it and won't be buying another one. Besides, an award for a 2010 model doesn't impress me much. I want to know how a car performs 5 or 10 years down the line. My experience with Fords in that regard has been terrible.

[lutefisk]

123. Do American union workers build the Fusion in Hermosillo, Mexico for under $10 an hour?

That sounds like a bad precedent.

The Fusion is a foreign car. Here's a window sticker:
http://www.inventory.fordvehicles.com/services/inventory/WindowSticker.pdf?vin=3FADP0L30BR104239">Made in Mexico

[grace0418]

144. Stop it with your inconvenient facts.

Just stop it right now.

[lutefisk]

145. And you stop being so reasonable.

It's getting annoying.

[ingac70]

195. Fusions are made in Mexico.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Fusion_Hybrid

[Kalyke]

122. Hmmm... my American car has never been in the shop.

My husband's foreign car has been in 17 times in three years.

Your experience is anecdotal and so 1982. This, dear, is 2010. American-made cars are less expensive and superior in maintenance to their foreign ug-puppets (I happen to think most Japanese cars were hiding in the closet when the pretty stick passed by).

[grace0418]

136. The point is that a car built in 1981 that would still be running today if it weren't for the

accident. I go for track record. And accolades in 2010 aren't enough to make up for my experiences over the years. I'm also not an advocate for all foreign cars over all American cars. I'm not especially impressed with our Subaru and won't be buying another one. I've known and read about too many problems with VWs to ever want to own one. I'm sticking with Honda and Toyota from here on until something changes.

[Tace]

56. That Has Not Been My Experience With Fords

I'm driving a Ford pickup truck, and I wish I had bought Fords all along. All I have to do is change the oil and buy tires every few years.

BTW, I lived in Detroit for 10 years and worked in a car factory, so I'm pro U.S. cars (Had a henna BMW 320 sport model once. It was sweet.)

It just occurred to me that maybe it's because I get the car serviced at Ted Green Ford, in Stockbridge, Vt., the oldest Ford dealership in the country, where they are very honest and friendly.

[kurtzapril4]

187. Same here.

My last car was a 1997 Ford Taurus, which I bought used in 1999 with over 80K miles on it. I sold it at 225K miles, and that person put another 50K on it before she sold it to someone else. It is still running strong. The only major expense I had with that Taurus was that I had to replace the original transmission @ 190K miles.

My "new" car is a 1999 Taurus SHO I bought 3 years ago with 167K on it. I love it. It has 180K on it and runs like a (very fast) champ.

[doc03]

64. The Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan have fewer problems than

the Camry and Accord. The Lincoln MKZ has fewer problems then it's rivals from Lexus and Acura.

[grace0418]

81. Not been my experience with my Hondas versus the Fords my family owned.

Two good cars and three bad cars in my life. I'm going with what works for me.

[uncommon]

68. This is the unfortunate truth. The best cars I have driven have been Toyotas and Hondas. I had a

Ford and a Chevy and they were both nothing but trouble.

[Hepburn]

132. Ditto....

...I have a Honda CRV with 60K miles on it...and I still have sufficient lining on the brakes. I have never found a car superior to Honda and I have owned a ton of different cars.

[grace0418]

143. Yep. But apparently your experiences are wrong.

And you should buy a Ford or Chevy anyway because otherwise you're pure evil.

[uncommon]

153. I would love it if a unionized American car manufacturer would make a car that was comparable to a

Honda.

[tammywammy]

83. Ford has comparable reliability to a Toyota.

Check the ratings.

[grace0418]

88. My numbers are my own experiences.

This is from my post upthread: I can only go with my family's experience at having to replace an engine after 3 years on one Ford (that was carefully maintained), having another Ford that died after 4 years and would have cost more to fix it than it was worth, and having a third Ford (my dad never learned) that was in the shop easily once a month. Contrast that with my husband's family's 1981 Civic that ran perfectly until it was totaled in 2003 by a newly emigrated relative who was learning how to drive. Or our 91 Accord that we sold to a family member and still runs great. Or our 1999 Civic that runs perfectly even in the dead of winter and costs us very little to maintain.

[tammywammy]

95. I'd just say you're losing out on a lot of great vehicles n/t

[grace0418]

104. Not been my experience. The only way I could be happier with my Civic is if it were

hybrid. But I bought it before Civics came as hybrids.

[quiller4]

198. Having had both Fords and Toyotas you couldn't give me another Toyota

My spouse worked for 9 years at a Ford Toyota dealership. We have a 1995 Ford F150 in our carport that we bought new. It is the most reliable, least expensive vehicle to maintain we have ever owned.

My (Canadian built) 1993 Tempo (5 speed V6) had over 300,000 miles when a drunk plowed into it last year. I drove it until 2002 and then passed it to a nephew. Isaac gifted an elderly friend with it when he deployed. I consistently got better mileage than my sister did in her Accord. She borrrowed it once when her own car was in the shop and decided her next car would be a Ford. Now she drives a hybrid Escape and gets better mileage than her daughter does in her 2006 Prius. I will admit that my 58 year old sister probably drives with mileage in mind more than her 29 year old daughter.

[grace0418]

214. Great, if you ever win a Toyota I'll gladly take it.

I'd take a free Ford if someone wanted to give it to me. But I'd probably sell it and buy a Honda Fit.

[Brickbat]

100. Funny, Ford models meet those quite well.

If you don't give a shit about buying union-made in the USA, just say so.

[grace0418]

107. Not in my experience. And believe it or not, buying an American car isn't the only

way to support union-made American products. Just apparently the only one you care about.

[Greyhound]

99. When are the union members going to force their leadership to start playing hardball

with the parasites? The republik abomination that is Taft-Hartley is still, 53 years later, the law of the land and ensured that unions will always be subservient to the parasites, period. All that they accomplish or try to accomplish is doomed until this is eliminated.

I can't recall the last time I heard a union leader even talk about this, let alone push for eliminating it.

This strategy of brow-beating consumers into supporting our oppressors won't work. Never has, never will.

[Name removed]

179. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

199. Excuse me but Taft-Hartley makes scabs possible. n/t

[grace0418]

25. That's just bad business practice. The demographic that purchases eco-friendly

cars, I'm guessing, is going to skew left. I guess I don't know that for sure but it sure seems like that in Chicago. Of course, Chicago skews left anyway.

Anyway good for you. Enjoy your new car!

[Romulox]

36. Actually, Toyotas are the favorites of union-busters everywhere. Fox is their demographic.

:hi:

[grace0418]

51. Got any statistics that prove that?

I admitted that my evidence was anecdotal because EVERYONE I know who has a Prius is lefty. And nearly every Prius I see in Chicago (and in California, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Washington when I visit my family and friends) has bumper stickers making it very clear that they are lefty.

Maybe you're right but I don't see it.

[Romulox]

53. The fact that every Toyota plant in the USA in a deep South "right to work" state

is my first piece of evidence.

[NoGOPZone]

69. Toyota has manufacturing plants in Indiana and West Virigina

two states that are neither Deep South nor right to slave.

You're just making shit up. :rofl:

[Kalyke]

124. Uhh... Indiana and WV may not be deep South, but they

are both very conservative states, these days.

You keep making shit up...

[NoGOPZone]

147. 'The fact that every Toyota plant in the USA in a deep South "right to work" state '

Claim disproved by counter example. Twice. On two different elements of the claim.

[Wednesdays]

156. Uhh...

[mcollins]

288. Indiana does have more KKK members than most 'deep south' states.

Or at least it seemed like it when I lived there. Confederate flags everywhere.

[grace0418]

79. That's not a statistic about drivers is it?

You're talking about plants.

[Romulox]

82. It's a telling data point, if not conclusive evidence.

I'm not aware of any data that specifically plumbs this issue, so we'll have to make some inferences when discussing it.

[grace0418]

84. I don't see how it's relevant when I said that, anecdotally, all the people I know who

have purchased the Prius would be put off if they went into a dealership and Fox News was on.

[Romulox]

89. People who believe in union busting prefer cars made in union busting states.

Quite frankly, I don't think this is a proposition that need be defended. On the contrary, I think to suggest that most politically aware people have a "it doesn't matter where, or under what labor practices a car is made" attitude is the stretch. :shrug:

[grace0418]

94. I think your logic is quite a stretch so let's agree to disagree.

Going to stop here. I'm not buying a Ford just because you say so. Sorry.

[PVnRT]

247. Funny

All the good ol' boy union busters I know drive union-made Fords and Chevrolets.

Weird.

[Romulox]

268. Then who in god's name is the market for the Toyota Tundra full sized pickup truck,

or the Toyota FJ Hummer-like vehicle, or the Toyota 4Runner full sized SUV, or the Toyota LandRunner full sized SUV, or the Toyota Tacoma pickup truck?

All those vehicles being sold to liberal environmentalist labor organizers? It's a ridiculous proposition that you put forward.

[SheilaT]

234. Every single state is a right to work state.

Unfortunately.

[Romulox]

262. Um, no.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law

[quakerboy]

239. My Toyota was Union made in California

Granted, it has a Pontiac badge. But the GM dealer I took it to doesn't even regularly stock the right weight oil to put in it, which tells me its a Toyota. As did the GM recall note where they essentially disclaimed their part in the car, and blamed any issues on Toyota.

[Romulox]

263. NUMMI is closed or closing. No more union made Toyotas.

:hi:

[quakerboy]

321. I heard

That really sucks.

[PVnRT]

246. LOL - Kentucky and Indiana are the "deep south" now

Tell someone from Georgia or Mississippi that. Tell me how long they laugh at you.

[NoGOPZone]

266. Good catch on Kentucky. I also learned yesterday Toyota still makes parts in Long Beach

Altogether, I'm aware of seven plants in the US, four of which are in states that are neither Deep South nor right to slave. However, I guess fifty seven percent isn't too far off from zero.

[Romulox]

285. Any serious analysis will have to deal with the VOLUME of vehicles produced at specific plants

"However, I guess fifty seven percent isn't too far off from zero."

The plants you mentioned don't produce 57% of the Toyotas sold in the US, though. You need to think this through more carefully.

[NoGOPZone]

287. Got it. Imposing conditions after making the statement

"every Toyota plant in the USA in a deep South "right to work" state". One of us surely does need to think things through more carefully.

[Romulox]

291. It's called a "conversation". Cf. a diatribe. nt

[NoGOPZone]

295. I believe it's called 'raising the bar' nt

[Romulox]

296. Actually, you mean "moving the goalposts", and you mean to use full quotation marks

(though quotation marks aren't required at all in your post.) "Raising the bar" means "performing above what is expected". "Moving the goalposts" (means "changing the argument after the fact". You also don't mean "moving the chains" (also a good thing!). :hi:

[NoGOPZone]

298. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

[Romulox]

302. "raise the bar" unambiguously means "set a higher standard".

I don't know if English is a second language for you (no snark), but the two phrases should not be used interchangeably--they have distinct meanings.

At any rate, ESL or no, I'm not your tutor. You've officially bored me. :boring:

[NoGOPZone]

305. You're familiar with wikipedia

Go ahead and change it. Why tutor just me when you can teach the world! :rofl:

[Romulox]

308. Yes. Wikipedia is not an authoritative source on any subject.

It (and you) are simply wrong on this point. At any rate, I am not interested in this line of discussion.

[Brickbat]

92. Union-busting lefties, but lefties.

I see 'em all the time.

[grace0418]

101. Sometimes choices are made based on the least number of negatives and the greatest number

of positives. Few choices in life are a perfect storm of all the ideals I hold dear. I go with the ones that have the greater number of positive ideals with the fewest negatives. If that's not good enough for you, I'd like to hear about how you've managed to make sure all your purchases are fair-trade, union-made, organic, local, eco-friendly, and superior quality.

And, by the way, the automotive unions aren't the only unions in the country. I can still support unions with my dollars and my votes even if I don't purchase American cars.

[Brickbat]

106. You keep talking about "superior quality" and "eco-friendly" like you've researched your new cars.

Your conclusions show that you haven't.

[grace0418]

109. Sorry, but I have. An award for best 2010 hybrid doesn't mean much 10 years

down the road. That's when it matters to me. My husband and I extensively research every major purchase before we buy.

And I've yet to hear any of you list how you've managed to make all of your purchases in life completely free of any negatives. Never shop at Walmart or Target (union busters)? Never buy non-organic, non-local produce (think of the people who pick that produce, think of the environmental impact of the pesticides and all that shipping)? All products you purchase are made in the USA? Please, do tell.

[Bitwit1234]

44. What you should have said is, if they are so set on AIRING

A STATION that does not tell the truth, you think you wouldn't be able to trust them when it came to buying your car there. After all if this is their regard for the truth you won't buy there AND YOU WILL TELL YOUR FRIENDS NOT TO TRUST THEM.

[tomm2thumbs]

49. doing it was brilliant - letting them know was icing on the cake! kudos

[yesphan]

52. On the other hand

I personally thanked the owner/manager of a local restaurant
for having MSNBC (Rachel was on at the time)on the big screen.

It's very rare around where I live to see this.

Thanks for standing up for your principals.

[harun]

55. Good.

[NYC_SKP]

60. OT Question? Have they improved the unbearable cheap and uncomfortable seats on the new Prius?

I got mine in 2007, every option on a Touring Package, bigger wheels, navigation, bluetooth, leather, everything.

But the seats are like something out of a 1972 Corolla.

Did they improve these, I hope?

PS, I got used to my seats after a few months of driving, but seriously, they might at least have had an option for better seats.

No other complaints.

[mod mom]

65. I don't like leather but my 2010 has the same seats as '06. Never minded the comfort

but missed the heat (although now Prius offers heated seats but only w leather.)

[doc03]

67. Question, what about battery replacement , How long do they

last and what do they cost if you do need to replace them?

[mod mom]

86. My '06 is funning fine (just about 60,000). Many of my friends own

Priuses ans I have never heard of anyone needing to replace the battery. Cost..I think it several thousand $, not sure.

[NYC_SKP]

157. IIRC, my 2007 has a 10 year warrantee on batteries.

Google is telling me 10 years/150,000 miles.

Not sure about cost, $5000?

Anyway, I'm at 80,000 miles now, so halfway there but not terribly concerned.

In some other vehicle it could be the motor or tranny or CV joints, any of which could cost thousands.

[proud patriot]

62. excellent

[Uncle Joe]

70. It's ludicrous to be airing anti-environmental propaganda at your place of business, particularly if

if the appeal of your product is relative environmental friendliness.

Thanks for sharing mod mom.:thumbsup:

[grace0418]

90. Shhhh...don't say that. You're about to get some "statistic" thrown at you that

"proves" that Prius owners are part of Fox's demographic. For reals.

[Romulox]

102. You're personalizing this too much. That Toyota dealer sells Tundras, and 4Runners, and Highlanders

and Camries, etc. as well.

[Uncle Joe]

113. It's more than just the anti-environmental propaganda being telecast, whether you like FOX "News" or

not, they're a lightning rod and if your goal is to market your product to as broad a swath of the population as possible, then automatically antagonizing anywhere from 40 - 60% of the people would seem to be counterproductive to your business interests.

[mod mom]

105. It's a Toyota dealership so not only Priuses, but I agree why air a station

that alienates any of your customer base. I wouldn't have complained about CNN.

[malaise]

74. That's how it's done

:yourock:

[jayfish]

76. I'm Not Worthy.

[AC_Mem]

77. You are awesome!

We can make a difference, one person at a time.

You are my hero today!

[w4rma]

80. Awesome. (nt)

[cags]

85. I wonder how it would affect the economy if Americans bought only American cars? I dont do foreign.

I read once that 3 Americans are out of work for every foreign car bought in this country.

I've had too many friends have their jobs shipped overseas to purchase a foreign car and feel good about it.

[Brickbat]

96. Agreed.

The pride people take in it drives me fucking crazy.

[Name removed]

323. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NeedleCast]

87. Logic Fail

If the dealership changed the news to CNN for you on request, don't you think they'd do the same thing if the TV was on CNN and someone requested they change it to Fox?

[tammywammy]

93. shush!

When I worked at a dealer it was mostly on ESPN.

[NeedleCast]

103. Sorry, just hate this sort of illogical self-congratulatory cheerleading

Because right now, there's some dipshit on Free Republic making a post that says "Yesterday I had the pleasure of telling a car dealership that I didn't buy from them because they had their waiting room TV set to that librul CNN news."

Except, you know, with more misspelled words and shit.

I spent years working in a large bar and grill type restaurant that (at the time) had 20ish TVs and, unless the University of Texas was playing (the restaurant was in Austin), I couldn't tell you what was on the TVs 99% of the time...but I know WHY those TVs were on the stations they were on...because someone asked a bartender or server to put it on that station.

I get the whole buying from blue businesses idea and strongly support it but basing a decision like that on the TV station playing in the waiting room is not a good basis.

[mod mom]

111. I pointed out that a manager came by & asked why the station had been switched and

that it was on FAUX on my next (and final) visit. I also pointed out that the dealership owner lives around the corner from me and had a McCain/Palin sign displayed in his yard in '08. when you are stuck waiting for a car in a waiting area, whether you like it or not, the tv becomes apparent. It's a little different than in a restaurant. Sheesh!

[NeedleCast]

114. I saw that in your post but it's not really proof of anything

Like I've pointed out in these types of posts before, 99% of the country is not as involved in politics as your average DU'er. Many on DU eat, sleep and dream about politics. The vast majority of people do not. The vast majority of business owners who have TVs on in their places of business pay very little if any attention to what's on the TV because, you know, they got work to do.

You also pointed out in your post that when you asked, an employee changed the channel to what you requested. The locial failure here is that, when asked, the dealership will change the channel despite what may be a bias towards Fox. If the owner had a McCain/Palin yard sign in 08 and you were basing your purchase choice on political leanings of the dealership, why bother going there in the first place?

[Rex]

121. Um, what are you seeking proof of?

Mr. Spock? Were you a manager at that dealership? What a strange thing to post, if not.

[NeedleCast]

128. Not seeking proof of anything, simply pointing out a logical failure

Is being compared to Mr. Spock supposed to be an insult?

No, obviously I'm not a manager at the dealership. What I'm trying to point out (since I've seen more than one of these "I didn't buy there because of Fox News" threads) is that this is kinda a poor factor in making a purchasing decision because:

1. Most businesses do not pay much attention to what's on their TV

2. It's a zero-sum game. If you go in and complain that the TV is on Fox and they change it to CNN, there's going to be a nearly equal number of nitwits complaining that the TV is on CNN and not Fox. The concept that you are "hitting a business in the pocketbook" with this sort of thing assumes that an equal number of people from the opposite side aren't doing the same thing.

3. In this particular case, the OP had been there before and seen Fox on, knew that the owner was a supporter of the GOP and apparently still went back in (I guess) some bizzare attempt to give said dealership one more chance to redeem themselves.

[sabrina 1]

163. There's no logical failure in standing up for your principles. To say so is a logical

failure itself.

What you are suggesting is that Democrats remain silent about the oppressive takeover of the airwaves by the Rightwing Noise Machine, while, as you pointed out yourself, Freepers will NOT remain silent and will raise hell if they see MSNBC on a TV anywhere in public.

Nice reasoning there. The kind that gave them a head start on all of this.

Excuse me if I like the actions of the OP better. I'm not even sure what you are proposing other than 'let them have their way because it's hopeless to fight them'. That's a recipe for failure.

[Rex]

174. Looks like you completely over-analyzed a simple scenario

Insult? I have nothing but the highest regards for Spock. :) Somehow I doubt you came to all those conclusions based on any real data.

[mod mom]

148. I didn't know when I bought my '06 that he was a Republican.

I had never ventured into their waiting room before. This time, I had no intention of giving them the deal, I only played them so they thought they were a contender. I had decided that our business would go to another dealer because of my experience.

As for your proof...what do I care if you don't believe my story. I have been a long standing member of DU and many who post here have come to know me through my posts. Whatever :eyes:

[onenote]

155. you "played" them so they'd think they were in contention and then told them you paid more?

Maybe its just me, but I'm having trouble in following the logic of that.

[mod mom]

160. OK let me spell this out for you...

We contacted them and they knew we were seriously interested since we had previously purchased a car, '06 Prius, from them. We let them know what model/options we wanted via internet/phone. They made an offer as did other dealers in the area that had what we were looking for. We went into the dealership where we ended up purchasing the car and bought it last night. This morning the other (FAUX News) dealership called and I told them we purchased the car from Toyota Direct and that although the price was almost $100 more, we went to TD because we were insulted that they aired Fox News in their waiting room. I asked that he please pass this information on to his managers.

Got it? If not, too bad. You seem to be acting antagonistic rather than anything else.

[onenote]

165. wasn't trying to be antagonistic. just asking. thanks for the explanation

[mod mom]

166. sorry

I thought I was responding to someone else. :hi; my bad.

[Violet_Crumble]

255. Why would you even contact them if you already knew the owner's a conservative?

I could understand if you stayed away based on that, but to go there knowing that already doesn't make a lot of sense. If yr motivation was to screw them round, then I'm wondering what the people who wasted their time having to deal with you actually did to offend you. Is everyone who works there to blame for you not liking what's on a telly there?

[City Lights]

120. If enough people complain, maybe they'll wise up and tune in to something other

than the mindless babbling that passes for nooze these days.

[NeedleCast]

125. Please, please tell me you understand that the reverse of this is also true

Because for every person walking into that dealerhip complaining that it's on Fox news, there's another person going in and complaining that it's on CNN, or MSNBC, or that they're showing the Cowboys game instead of the Redskins game.

That's why this is a non-logical argument/situation. The dealership is in a lose-lose scenario. For every customer out there saying "I didnt buy there because their TV was on Fox" there's another customer out there saying "I didn't buy there buecause their TV was on CNN."

Of course, none of this REALLY matter because 95% of customers don't really care or smart enough to realize that the TV station playing in the waiting room is probably not a good barometer of the political leanings of an entire car dealership, or even it's owners (although in this particular case, that argument could be made).

[City Lights]

151. I completely understand.

If I had my way, they'd turn off the fucking teevee. Or better yet, irritate the entire waiting room by turning on Barney. :evilgrin:

[boppers]

237. My dealership/service point has a TV, and a library, in the waiting room.

I've *never* seen the TV on (in 16 visits), but it's a great place to pick up and try out a book.

Bonus points if you can guess the car company. :evilgrin:

[City Lights]

277. That's very cool! I lose out on the bonus points though...do tell! nt

[boppers]

320. Gary Small

http://saabstory.com/

[mod mom]

162. who complains about CNN? They've attempted to be middle of the road w a rt lean.

whether you want to admit it or not, Fox is far right and very different in presenting "facts" than any other network.

[AnArmyVeteran]

97. Good for you for being a soldier in this war against evil.

[lillypaddle]

112. WTG! n/t

[Kalyke]

115. Now... if we could get you to buy an American car

made by Americans with profit staying in America to purchase other American-made products so that we can begin to rebuild our manufacturing, then all would be well in the country.

[madmax]

126. I'm guilty of buying foreign cars

I agree we need to buy American. Should I ever lose my mind and decide to buy a new car, I will seriously consider American made.

First foreign car I bought was a Toyota Corolla - loved it. Second foregin car was a Honda Accord used from a co-worker. Again, very satisfied.

The spousal unit and I have never, ever bought a 'new car'.

We buy 2 year old used cars from private owners, low mileage, good conditon and drive them till they die.

My cars will usually last me 10 years. We now drive 2 used Honda's, a 2002 and a 2003. Mine is most likely the last car I'll ever need/buy unless I freak out and smash into the idiot whose bumper sticker reads. 'I'll keep my guns and my money. You keep the change.' :mad:

[lpbk2713]

117. It's the only way they will get the message.

Hit em in the checkbook.

Freeper types can piss and moan with phone calls and emails all they want to but when the dealer actually knows
he lost a sale because of his preference for the propaganda arm of the GOP THAT is making a statement.

You told them that you need them a hell of a lot less than they need you. Way to go. :thumbsup:

[Abq_Sarah]

217. Change your poltics or else?

What next? Are you going to refuse to deal with anyone who has an employee who votes for republicans?

Where the hell does it end?

As long as they aren't using the business to actively campaign for any candidate (which is a incredibly stupid thing to do), I could care less about the politics of the people I do business with. And luckily for me, they don't give a shit about who I vote for either.

[Xenotime]

129. Good for you.

[blm]

131. Love you mod mom!!!!

But, you already know that. ; )

[Mz Pip]

133. I don't see why any place of business

has to have any TV on to any station - unless they are selling TVs.

Though I used to get my pedicures at a nail salon that had Chinese soap operas on their tv. Those were kind of interesting.

[David Zephyr]

134. Way to go, mod mom.

I wonder if Fox is playing there in a month from now.

Bravo! K&R.

[napi21]

138. You also might want to send a nice professional letter (yes snail mail)

to the owner of the dealership explaining why he lost the sale to a competitor. I know if I worked there and got info like that, the LAST THING I would do is tell the BOSS!

[mod mom]

149. Good idea ...to his house.

Thanks :hi: for the suggestion

[woo me with science]

139. This whole thread is hilarious.

This reminds me of how sorry I used to feel for people who bought 8-tracks instead of cassettes.

It's just so hard to keep up. It used to be all the cool kids were buying Priuses.

[barbtries]

141. so cool

you hit them in their wallet! WAY TO GO!

[Obamanaut]

146. Talk about a complete lack of tolerance for what other customers

might want to watch. Don't like the channel in a waiting room where one does not spend all that much time, so one buys a non domestic brand auto, one not even assembled in the US, and made by non union laborers.

Personally, I don't really care, but that sort of announcement here takes a lot of courage.

[cyr330]

150. EXCELLENT Job!

They need to know that we all vote, and we can very well take our business elsewhere!!!!!

[boomerbust]

152. Similar story

Back in 04 I was looking at this apartment to rent. The landlord seemed like a decent guy. I told him I needed a day to think about it. He said dont wait to long because He had 3 other parties that wanted it. As he was driving out of the driveway I seen the sticker he had on his back bumper, Bush/Cheney 04. Right there the journey continued.

[mod mom]

164. You were probably better off.

He's probably have been an asshole as a landlord and there was no other parties waiting. :hi:

[miyazaki]

161. Figured your topic would be usurped

Congrats with your actions at the dealer, and getting a new car.
I had a Ford dealer blow me off fifteen years ago because he thought
I was a dumb punk kid without a dime in his pocket. Went and bought
a new Toyota the same day which I still drive now.

[democracy1st]

167. same here everytime I get my car serviced its on that dayum channel!

[Swamp Rat]

168. Excellent mod mom!

Did I mention I hate FUX Noise? :D

[crim son]

171. Nice.

Wherever I go and there's a t.v. on I check to see if it's FOX, so I can stress myself out with rage and helplessness. From now on, I'm walking out and I'm going to tell why. Thanks for the inspiration!

[lsewpershad]

173. May

the gods of Fox News Bless you...because you did the right thing.

[handmade34]

175. proud of you

we all need to do more of this... I change the TVs playing Faux News in a public place whenever I can :patriot:

[deaniac21]

176. Do Prius owners really enjoy smelling their own farts?

[The_Commonist]

177. Man, after reading through the sniping on this thread...

...I am SO GLAD that I don't have, need or want a car!

Good for you, mod mom, for not buying from the Fox lovers.
That was, after all, what you came here to say.

[zenprole]

201. Dig It

Yeah, let's stick to the point, which is giving one back to the corrupt universe of car dealerships.
They don't get half the kicking around they deserve.

[dpbrown]

180. I drive a Prius!

And I would never buy a car from a dealer who aired FOX.

[Lucian]

181. Wait....you went into a private business and asked them to turn the station...

because you didn't like it?

And then you refuse to buy one of their cars, and then went and bought a non-union car.

Hmmmm.

Logic fail indeed.

[Obamanaut]

190. Just another "Look at meeeee!" thread. Sadly, they are supported. nt

[Lucian]

205. These kinds of threads are stupid.

The people are acting like heroes when they didn't do anything heroic.

Want me to view you as a hero? Tell me you saved someone's life. That'll get me to "K&R" your thread then.

Walking out of a business because they had on Faux News only gets me to roll my eyes.

[Regret My New Name]

250. I threw a brick through my TV when I accidentally surfed Fox Bussiness....

I felt really proud of myself...

...until the wife got home

[proteus_lives]

235. It is sad.

She thinks she accomplished something.

[DeSwiss]

184. K&R! Yes, yes, yes!!! n/t

[RagAss]

185. You are my new idol !!!!!!!

[indimuse]

186. he he he..

k and f'n..R! hehe.!

BRAVO!

[Johnny2X2X]

188. MSNBC

It's a funny thing about FOX, how religious it's followers are. Funny how there aren't many MSNBC viewers who insist on only leaving the TV on that channel at their work places. It goes to how biased FOX News is that any other News source seems like a shock to FOX viewers.

[veganlush]

189. That's a great example. I wish everyone

..would realize that everytime you buy something, you are voting with your dollars. Just as when you eat , you are voting for or against cruelty. thank you for posting that.

[DFW]

191. One more kudo from a far-off "land without Fox."

Anything electronic media organ spouting anything resembling Nazi propaganda is forbidden by law here in Germany.

What you describe could never happen here.

However, I would say to you please do not be irked too much by the "equal time" people who say that the dealership might
turn off just as many right-wingers by running CNN as they turn off moderates/progressives by airing Fox. CNN is rightist
enough, just not rabidly so. Wolf Blitzer and Candy Crowley almost always take a rightist slant, and Crowley was practically
frothing at the mouth with admiration for Bush Lite while covering him during the 2000 election campaign. But CNN still does
make an effort to air at least pretty much factual stories, even if they slant them slightly rightward. Fox makes no attempt
at accuracy, and is blatantly everything Jimmy Carter said it is and more.

Ergo, there is, too, a huge difference in someone objecting to Fox and someone objecting to CNN. Almost no one will object to
CNN, unless their addiction to rightist propaganda is so acute that they experience withdrawal symptoms if they are without it
for more than 7½ minutes. If they are in that much need of a propaganda fix, then they might demand Fox. However, outside of
heavily armed enclaves in rural Idaho, I don't think this kind of individual in in the majority, and will certainly not comprise
a goodly pottion of the customer base of a Prius dealership.

And for the record, my sister and her husband are content owners of a several-years-old Prius back in the States. Here, I confess
to driving a locally made brand. I drove my first one from 1986 through 2003 when it just died on me (moist climate makes for a
lot of rust here). I got another one in 2003 and it's still purring like a contented cat.

[Cairycat]

192. Good on you for letting them know

Faux is off-putting, not only for those with a progressive bent to their politics, but also to other people who just don't like their style.

I recently purchased beds for my sons. One store had Glenn Beck on their TV (not real obvious, my son pointed it out to me.) But having Fox on, along with the other things I didn't like about that store, made me cross them off my list.

I have to see the eye doctor every month. The office TVs always used to have MSNBC on. I wonder if someone complained - they only have Home & Garden TV on now. But I understand how it might be upsetting to some people. There are plenty of channels that have a more general appeal - there really isn't any reason for a business to push one political viewpoint and alienate some customers.

[meowomon]

200. Knock 'em where it hurts!

Great job!

[northoftheborder]

203. car talk

My Toyota Sienna which I had before I bought my present Prius was manufactured in Kentucky. Prius is made in Japan. I try to buy US when possible, but no one can beat the mileage of Prius at this point. I need a dependable, inexpensive to maintain auto, and the Prius fits the bill. Love it, easy to drive, just what I need right now.

Funny about telling off the Faux playing dealer!!! I once walked out of a small store who was playing Limbaugh radio and told him why. When I went through the tutorial at the dealership, buying my Prius, trying to learn how to program the radio, the geographical doo-dad, etc. I mentioned that one of my satellite station sets should be XM 167. You should have seen the look of horror on the face of this plump, balding, middle-aged white dude!!! I just laughed!! (I'm a white haired granny.!)

[LaPera]

204. I've done the same in different situations, hotel's bars restaurants - I always make it clear why

I'm leaving or why I will leave if they don't change the channel from bias, lopsided lying Fox republican propaganda. spin & commentary to another channel or turn on something else - Most times they do, sometimes they don't and I tell them why I'm leaving - and I do leave.... Fox is certainly not "news"!

[Dirigo]

206. We All Suffer Indignities Even In Business Establishments

Dear Mod Mom:
I can understand your angst at sitting in a car dealership customer lounge and being assaulted by the petty, exaggeration of stories they label news and coarseness of Fox Faux News talking heads. I was in my own Cadillac dealership a month ago and was subjected to the same air pollution with Fox Faux News Channel blaring away on a large flat screen. We were about only 5 people in the room waiting for our cars. Everyone was either playing with their cellphones or reading a book or newspaper and occasionally looking up. I was reading a historical account of the Deportation of the Arcadians from Canada in the late 1700s but unable to abide the assault on my ears coupled with my blood pressure rising, I closed my book and calmly raised my voice so all could hear. I asked, "does anyone have any objection if I change the station to something other than Fox News since it is hardly fair and balanced, I said with a smile, wink and a nod. I must admit no one said a word and nodded no problem whereupon I got up and simply changed the station. Some of the white shirts working for the dealership obviously knew what happened as they came in periodically to talk with one customer or another but made no move to change the station since I was sitting there proudly wearing my nice Obama campaign emblem on a snappy white golf hat. The message was clear!

All we have to do is speak up politely and most people won't stand in your way. I have to do it frequently at my own country club when I find the flat screens on Fox. I protest quietly to the staff and oftentimes they'll change it when it is "safe to do so and the known Neo-cons are distracted in conversation or eating & drinking". It works quite well. In fact so well, if I come in for lunch after golf rather than make a request to change it I will simply whisper to the waiter I am going home for lunch because I can't be comfortable and at peace with a normal blood pressure if I am being assaulted by Fox reading Republicon press releases by nitwits in short skirks, no underwear, and babbling incoherently featuring all manner of mental retards from The Heritage Foundation and the retreads from all the other half-way houses for ex-Republicon officialdom.

[BlueCheese]

207. Every decision has tradeoffs

There aren't any cars that are simultaneously (1) affordable, (2) American-made, (3) union-made, and (4) get 50 mpg. I'd say all four of these are laudable goals, but I don't think it's for me to judge someone else about which of these she prioritized.

Does Toyota treat their US workers decently? Reasonable hours, decent pay, health care? I definitely believe in union labor, but these days, a company that hires American workers and treats them well isn't all that easy to find.

[divideandconquer]

211. Unforunately Pruis is built by close to slave labor in Japan

The Dark Side of the Toyota Prius

By Paul Abowd

The National Labor Committee (NLC), a New York-based human rights group, has been investigating working conditions at Toyota Motor Corp., and the labor used to produce its best-selling Prius hybrid cars.

In its 65-page report released in June, NLC includes first-hand testimony of factory conditions in “Toyota City,” outside of Nagoya, Japan — less than 200 miles southwest of Tokyo — where the largest auto company in the world employs some 70,000 people.

The report alleges that Toyota exploits guest workers, mostly shipped in from China and Vietnam. According to the NLC, these workers are “stripped of their passports and often forced to work — including at subcontract plants supplying Toyota — 16 hours a day, seven days a week, while being paid less than half the legal minimum wage.” Workers are forced to live in company dormitories and deported for complaining about poor treatment, the report finds.

Low-wage temporary workers make up one-third of Toyota’s Prius assembly-line workers, mostly in the auto-parts supply chain. They are signed to contracts for periods as short as four months, and are paid only 60 percent of a full-time employee’s wage.

Parts plants run by subcontractors advertise standard, nine-hour, five-day-a-week jobs. But according to the NLC, “the typical shift was 15 to 16.5 hours a day, from 8:30 a.m. to 11:30 p.m. or 1:00 a.m.”
------------------------------------
<http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3796/the_dark_side_of_the_toyota_prius/>

[Mira]

209. WAY. TO. GO Proud of you and recommended

[greytdemocrat]

212. Sad...

A childish act that was more than likely forgotten by the salesman as soon as the phone connection was broken, if not sooner.

But I'm happy you "feel" good.

[RoccoR5955]

213. WTG... I've been doing the same sort of thing.

I have a remote control that will turn off ANY TV. When I go somewhere and Fox Propaganda is on, I turn it off! The gadget is called TV-B-Gone, and you can get it online from a lot of places. You can even get a generic one for about 3 bucks online too, and they work great! They're small, so that people don't know that you're doing it.

[greytdemocrat]

215. Cute,

Nice of you to impose your will on someone there comrade. Another childish action that accomplishes nothing.

[ingac70]

219. ...

TVs in the waiting areas are for customers, not management.

[greytdemocrat]

228. And...

That has what exactly to do with my post???

The person I answered said they were just imposing their will and turning off TV's if they saw Fox on. Did if ever occur to them that people watching said TV didn't have a problem with Fox on??? Apparently not.

I fail to see how doing childish things like this has any effect on anything other than giving certain people here an excuse to post "feel good" rubbish.

The entire concept is just silly.

[RoccoR5955]

290. I don't change the channel, I turn the damn thing off!

Unless there are kids watching cartoons or something.
My will is not to want to hear lies. If I impose that on someone, so be it. I will not tolerate Fox Propaganda any more!

[mod mom]

220. That is so cool! Maybe you can convince them it was "an act of God"

and they'll repent against their evils ways, as gullible as they are!

:hi:

[Obamanaut]

253. People will watch what you approve of, or else they'll watch nothing at

all.

How tolerant.

[Octafish]

216. '...we were insulted that they would air a station which such disregard for the truth.'

I love you, mod mom.

[ocd liberal]

222. Great work!

I look forward to doing the same one day!

[happygoluckytoyou]

224. I DID THE SAME...changed oil change station, and gas station for airing FUX

[alp227]

225. Is it because of an action item in email?

http://colorofchange.org/turnofffox/sticker/tof.html?&credo

Got this in email after doing something on colorofchange.

But great job! :yourock:

[lonestarnot]

230. K & R!

[Bluesbreaker]

231. Kudos!

Sticks and stones make break their bones, but taking away a sale really hurts.

[DollyM]

232. I wish our local VA hospital that we have to use would not have Fox playing . . .

I have written complaint letters twice (to the VA Hospital) after having to sit in the prescription waiting area with Fox News blaring on the TV above. Next time I am going to buy one of those automatic channel changers and take it with us.

[Obamanaut]

240. Take a magazine, or headphones. Or become more tolerant of

what someone else might be actually wanting to see. It isn't necessary to agree with them, but there is that choice thingy.

[DollyM]

284. that's the point, we have no choice as it is up so loud!

If it were background noise or even had captions set up on it, that would be one thing. But it is right in our faces and it just incites the repub radicals that come to the waiting room with their Glen Beck books and and start a little rally of their own and start preaching to anyone else in the waiting room about the evils of those Democrats and our evil Socialist leader Obama. Trust me, we have heard it all! I have had to get up and leave the waiting room because the noise level of those "preaching" and getting excited by FOX propaganda, gets downright unbearable. I think the VA needs to be more respectful that there are those of us who do not want FOX propaganda shoved in our faces without anywhere else to go.

[Obamanaut]

286. A pleasant request to the administrators to mute the volume and enable

captions might go a long way toward resolving the issue.

Especially the 'pleasant request' part.

[DollyM]

322. that gave me a chuckle . . .

pleasant request and VA do not go together. A person has to fight and claw to get even decent health care out of them. This is southern Illinois, redneck republican central, they could care less that they are offending some patients who are not on the "Obama is a socialist" train.

[boppers]

238. mod mom, I'm praying for a Saab Hybrid/Turbo.

Best of all worlds, really, and I'm sure you understand why (after perusing this thread).

[Obamanaut]

252. Whatever higher power is being prayed to is no doubt looking around saying

"Oh look, there's someone asking for food for their hungry kids, and over here someone is asking for relief from the constant abuse, and now one is seeking assistance for ailing uncle. But wait! Bobbers needs a car - let's get right on this."

People pray for the darndest things.

[B Calm]

241. Why do you hate American manufacturing workers?

[TexasObserver]

242. Good. Vote with your dollars.

[spicegal]

243. Way to go! Frankly, we should start confronting businesses about

airing Fox. It's offensive. If they want to show news, then go with CNN, which is neutral and behaves like a real news network.

[SmileyRose]

244. hey, you got a two fer

you stuck it to Fox and union slobs in one move. Congratulations.

:sarcasm:

[NNN0LHI]

248. Don't forget to tell us what company you work for so us American union workers don't ...

... make the mistake of supporting you by accidentally spending our money on whatever goods or services you provide.

That would only be fair, wouldn't it?

Don

[Enthusiast]

249. K&R

I'm glad you made a stand, mod mom. Ya done good. Fox News is of some dark evil and ugly underworld.

With regard to purchasing a vehicle manufactured in Japan, you are the one spending the money. Sometimes we have to make choices we don't want. Of course you would prefer the Toyota was manufactured in the U.S. in a union plant. But mpg is your highest priority. And at least Toyota does have some manufacturing in the U.S. It's your choice. I support your right to make an 'informed consumer' choice. And I'm about as pro-labor as they come. I don't wish to come off here as condescending as I understand full well that you don't need my permission to make purchases with YOUR hard earned money.

[mod mom]

254. To union workers who who disagree w my purchase...

First off, I respect your ability to organize labor and have worked side by side on GOTV activities with many union folks who I greatly admired. We all have our priorities that are important to us and meet within the big tent of the Democratic Party. My biggest concern is Climate Crisis/environmental issues. My purchase of the Prius was not the main issue I wished to convey in my post, just a detail, but I defend it as sticking to my priorities. Had there been a comparable American car made by union workers, we would have purchased that vehicle, but unfortunately there is NO other car on the market that gets 51 around town (99% of my driving). I didn't mean to offend anyone with my purchase only wish to leave less of a footprint on this planet and depend less on foreign oil.


This post was a feel good post to encourage others to make a stand against putting up with the airing propaganda on FAUX in public places. If we all did this we could make a difference. The party is a big tent. I hope we can see the need to lessen the propaganda machine of News Corp as a priority that we can all agree on. Peace. Sorry this turned into such a divisive thread.

[chillspike]

258. Sweet!

I would have done the same!

[Tarc]

259. Not that it matters much now, but unrecommending this

I have no love for Fox News at all, but this type of petty simple-mindedness is rather nauseating, sorry.

[Barack_America]

267. Same. If the savings had been greater, the poster would have bought the car.

This is hardly a triumph for principle. I would have had more respect for the action if they had told the dealer outright they weren't going to buy from them. But negotiating one's principles to a value of "close to $100"? Not particularly admirable.

[mod mom]

270. You don't speak for me. I had NO intention of giving the sale to the dealer.

After the second incident of seeing Fox in their waiting room, I never went back to that dealership. In negotiation, the contact was internet & phone. The point in contact was to inform them their airing had lost a former customer (which they could tell by their records. Maybe you should stick to speaking about what you know, which in this case is nothing.

[Barack_America]

272. Then it was petty to have wasted their time.

A strongly worded letter without wasting their time negotiating a price would have been sufficient.

Why negotiate if you have no intention of giving them the sale? Just to be spiteful?

[apocalypsehow]

316. *YOU* posted the OP, and the poster replied to your OP based on information *YOU* provided.

"Maybe you should stick to speaking about what you know"

Maybe you should stop posting OP's if you're not up to receiving critiques based on what you type. It's just a thought.

[chillspike]

318. And so too you replies.

Then where would we be? ;)

[Lucian]

273. +1

[zinnisking]

261. I was 1 minute too late

to recommend.

damnit

[otohara]

281. I Walked Out of a Head Shop - FOX News Was On

I went to this place because it was close - I walk in and immediately see this gigantic LDC TV w/ FOX on and I say "WTF, why on earth would a head shop have FOX on"? and this kid starts telling me that FOX is the only truth teller on the tube....at that point I tell this kid I feel sorry for him and I leave. He starts yelling about how the "left" isn't as tolerable as they think....blah, blah, blah...

[Romulox]

293. One thing we can ALL agree on: that lady who thought her Prius was made in Oregon ain't coming back

:rofl:

[grace0418]

325. She did one better...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9191113&mesg_id=9191113

Still laughing?

[LanternWaste]

300. It's DU... where no good deep goes unpunished...

It's DU... where no good deep goes unpunished, *and* you get soundly criticized for not buying union from four specific posters who pirate music rather than purchase them and in doing so, assist in denying the musicians and associated trade union members their "fair" share.

[Romulox]

304. Who are you accusing of music piracy?

I know it's not me! :hi:

[LanternWaste]

309. Then it's not you.

Then it's not you. :shrug:

I make no accusations, merely the repetition of activities already admitted in one DU forum or another.

[apocalypsehow]

312. Link to these forums or posts, please. I don't buy a word of it - you just don't like what the

posters you reference had to say regarding the issue.

[Romulox]

313. OK, but by not naming names, you've made a generalized smear of everyone on one side of the issue

I'm here to tell you, that I own over 300 cds and a similar number of vinyl records. They are all legitimate copies, purchased at legitimate retailers.

Now, what (if anything) do you have to say about supporting American workers? :hi:

[apocalypsehow]

311. Wow...you're a regular American hero. How many gold stars do you want?