Paying child support for your kid being in "juvenile hall"?

[underpants]

Juvenile detention

I just heard about this the other day. Parent of a kid who is in a regional detention center has to pay (20% of his income so I am told).

I had never heard of this. I guess if you can't raise taxes.....

BTW- this is in Virginia.

[rug]

1. PA too.

[JuniperLea]

2. Sounds like a deterrent to me...

Parents need to control their brats. And if they can't, they need to spend some money on therapy until they can.

[Withywindle]

34. I think it depends on what the kid DID.

Smoking pot? Fuck no, it's not right.


Killed someone? In that case, I'm fine with it; hell, the parents should be in jail along with the kid.

[seabeyond]

52. juvies are overwhelmed, in the area at least. they are not looking to put a kid in juvie

for smoking pot. juvies are so overwhelmed it takes a hell of a lot and chance after chance after chance, to get a kids ass in juvie.

[msanthrope]

54. That is true--

in fact, that's what helped tip off investigators in PA that something fishy was going on in Luzerne County--kids wre being sent away on such trivial shit...

But outside of corruption, you really, really do have to do quite a bit to get 'locked up.'

[SoCalDem]

3. When our "bad boy" was locked up we had to pay $87 a day for 9 months

:(

[underpants]

8. I had no idea of this

literally no idea

[SoCalDem]

12. This was in the 90's.

and when that little brat was about 17, he was actually pissed at us because we would not buy him a car :rofl:

We reminded him that because of court costs & his "time", he had pissed away a Porsche :)

Of course he's now approaching 33, and is an upstanding citizen & has apologized for all his teenaged nonsense.

[Capitalocracy]

15. I never made $87 a day for 9 months in my life

That's a little more than minimum wage right there, almost twice as much

[SoCalDem]

27. I cried when I got the letter telling us what we had to pay

but because we forced him to plead guilty, he paid the price..and so did we..
such is life:(

[Skidmore]

55. I'm thinking back to when my kids were young people. :)

I told them that if they got in the kind of trouble to get themselves to a jail, I would not bail them out. My son only tested this once. My daughter never did tempt fate. I told my son that this infraction was considered a juvenile offense and would be expunged from his record when he was 18, but it was up to him to establish a pattern of behavior he could follow through on as an adult. That you are allowed one mistake but after that it becomes a willful pattern and he could very well be pissing away an entire future because he couldn't follow basic rules. There are no easy outs in life, and the younger you learn that, the more prepared you are for adulthood. Never had a problem with him again and he's an outstanding citizen at the ripe old age of 30. I believe in firm expectations for children and followthrough with consequences, natural and set.

My daughter was another story. SHe went through a bout of spending every red cent she made. I let her live at home when she was in college, and after awhile, I needed to set some rules around finances. I started charging her $100/mo rent to stay. I put the money in savings account every month and when she was finally ready to move out, I gave it too her to pay her deposit on an apartment. She got the point.

Ya did good, my friend.

[raccoon]

45. W.T.F. I never knew of anything like this. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. You have to pay to go to jail now

Our county jail charges $42 a day. Up front. If you don't pay it, they sick bill collectors and judges with court orders on you.

[underpants]

9. I think I had heard of that

but it must have skipped my mind.

No wonder there is so money (a lot of it our money) poured into concrete.

[pnwmom]

10. Up front? How can they sic bill collectors on you when you're in jail?

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Good question

They get judges to issue court orders and then failure to comply warrants when you don't pay. Then you have to go back, do more time and of course, pay for those days also.

It's messed up. I know several non violent offenders caught up in this mess.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

35. Can you be arrested for owing money???? Isn't that debtors prison?

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Here's what they do:

The judge fines you. You don't pay and the court issues a warrant. You go to jail. For not paying the fine.

[pnwmom]

36. Wow. I thought we had eliminated debtors' prisons.

This is outrageous.

[raccoon]

46. Stop the world and let me get off! nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. wow 20% is high, in NY it's 17% of your salary per child for support.....

[Parche]

6. run juvenile run

never heard of that....:hi:

[Parche]

7. run juvenile run

never heard of that....:hi:

[MineralMan]

11. Why shouldn't parents have to pay for their rotten kid who has

been locked up for some offense? Bad parenting should cost the bad parents money. Why should I pay for some other person's out of control kid?

If parents don't do their job, they should pay someone else to do it, in my opinion.

[Archae]

14. Because it's not always bad parents.

There are kids that rebel against anything and everything, and simply get stupid.

Do dope, hang out with thugs, etc.

[MineralMan]

16. Bad parenting. I was a rowdy kid, but I kept within bounds

because my father would have kicked my butt if I didn't. I pulled dozens of elaborate pranks, but none were illegal and none harmed people or property.

Criminal behavior among juveniles is almost always the result of bad parenting.

Why should I pay for bad parenting. Let the juvenile's parents pay for his incarceration.

[Pithlet]

20. So, what explains your very narrow view of the world, then?

Woud that be your parents' stellar parenting skills, too? Because what explains a person who thinks all other human beings operate exactly the way they do? That's some really strange thinking there.

[MineralMan]

21. My friend, parents are responsible for the actions of their minor

children. If the kid gets in a car accident, the parents' insurance pays, or the parent if they have no insurance. If a kid breaks my window with a rock, the parents are going to pay. If the kid commits a crime and is sentenced to juvy, the parents should pay for that, too. It's their kid, not mine. I'll help pay for the kids education, for the library, for the streets, and for lots of other things the kid does. I won't pay to support the kid when he or she commits a crime.

Parents are responsible for the actions of their minor children. Basic law. Look it up. Control your kid.

[Pithlet]

25. Yes, they are responsible.

That's a far cry from bad kids are always a result of bad parents.

[Tsiyu]

33. And it's easy for those who never had children like our friend above IIRC

to claim that kids who get in trouble are doing so because their parents suck.

It's always easy to raise a kid "in theory," isn't it? :)

[uncommon]

50. Exactly - it makes sense for all of us to chip in to bring positive things

like education into children's lives - they are the next generation of American citizens - but to expect everyone to foot the bill for bad behavior is just silly.

[laughingliberal]

23. Funny how every authoritarian I've ever met claims parents who kicked their butts or would have...

I don't think it's any way to raise kids. I also notice it never occurs to them that the lack of social programs that now leave poor parents working 2 jobs or more doesn't lend itself to providing a great family life for the kids.

[Pithlet]

26. I agree.

It seems the "kicking kid's butt" method of raising kids doesn't lead to very nuanced thinking a lot of times, does it?

[laughingliberal]

22. I disagree

And criminal behavior among juveniles is very often related to poverty and a sense of hopelessness. A drive to rid ourselves of every penny of spending to help poor parents raise their kids isn't making anything any better. Just another fucking gouge the poor policy.

[MajorChode]

38. I find that rather ironic

Most of the "bad parenting" I've seen comes from parents who 'kick the butt' of their misbehaving children. If you think good parenting skills are all about extreme disciplinary reactions to bad behavior, you have a lot to learn about parenting.

[lostnfound]

41. and if your father died when you were 5 and your single mom worked full-time but..

Aw who gives a damn. Obviously it's not your job to care about the fringes like that.

[SoCalDem]

28. You knew our son?

I actually took him to juvenile hall when he was about 12, to show him what was ahead for him, but they laughed at me & said that until they commit a felony, there was no help for us. We spens a small fortune on counseling for him, and family counseling to help us all try to figure out what we could do to help him, and he was determined to step outside the box:(

The first time he rebelled, he was 12..and was gone for 5 days.. where was he? he went surfing at San Onofre with a bunch of 17-20 yr olds (he was almost 6 ft tall by then, and looked much older)


We grounded him, but he would wait until we were asleep and he would bolt.. His "friends" were mostly druggies & troublemakers, and he took to them like a fish to water.

he always got caught, and we would never let him lie his way out of trouble.. we even turned him in, or tried to when he stole our car at 1 am (he was 14 then) ...the cops told us it was a "family matter" and would not help us, even though he was obviously high as a kite..


What got him "real time" was the fact that he was SUCH a repeat-offender that the judge finally decided he needed to be taught a lesson, so he ended up one of only 4 or 5 "anglo" kids, amidst a population of Crips, Bloods & Asian/Mexican gangster kids...for 9 long months.. he did get off drugs there, and the counselors had glowing reports to us about him.. (he does have an IQ of 150+, so he knew how to play their game).

When he came out, he was almost 17, and we more or less just flat out told him that anything from here in in would probably end up outside of juvenile court, and he better get his act together.. he did.

[PeaceNikki]

30. .

:hug:

Without going into details, I will just say that I REALLY REALLY empathize and truly know how you feel.

[Courtesy Flush]

51. Most bad parents think they're good parents

If you only charge the ones who admit they contributed to the problem, you'd never get a nickel.

[customerserviceguy]

31. What if the child support has to be paid by a father

who doesn't even get a say in how his kid is raised?

[uncommon]

58. Cute.

[LiberalAndProud]

37. Assuming that your views are correct,

do you really not detect some potential for abuse with this? One of the most frightening movements in our society right now, AFAIC, is the idea that criminals should generate revenue. The movement toward privatizing our penal system scares the bejesus out of me.

And I've got to tell you, I think you've been very fortunate in your life to be so unaware of what parents are up against these days. There are *no* programs to help parents who know they have a potential time bomb on their hands. And when the kid goes off, like the parents have been warning he will, the state can bankrupt them in the bargain. Sorry, but that is just fucked up.

edit: stupid grammar

[lostnfound]

42. And if your son has double-Y syndrome it's bad parenting or you adopted him

at age 6 even though the abuse he suffered at the hands of his previous parents has trained him to act out in violence? Yep it's all bad parenting. Wash your hands of it and don't complicate your simple view.

[lostnfound]

43. And if your kids were sent to jail by the corrupt judges who took bribes from the private prisons

which you might have heard on DemocracyNow (ever heard of DemocracyNow?) a few months ago.. did any bad parents have to pay for all the suffering those judges caused? For that matter, maybe Ken Lay's parents should have to pay, too. Why stop at 18? You don't think the effects of bad parenting are stopped at the age of majority? The type of bad parenting that leads to smart but cold-hearted white-collar thieves is perhaps the worst kind.

[MattBaggins]

44. Despite your shitty hatred of children

we have had enough with corrupt judges sentencing kids to for profit prisons that were giving the judges kick backs. Pair that with cash strapped communities that will do anything for money and you see the ugly pattern that will rise. You know as well as I do what comminities will be hit the most with this shit.

Debtor prisons were done away with for a reason. Let's not bring them back; especially with our children.

[lostnfound]

49. Well put. I swear, people seem happy to regress to the 18th century

and not in the good ways.."Penalize the individual" is the motto.. Any chance that corporations will have to pay for the imprisonment of their own corporate criminals?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

57. Wait, what, "Ignored"is a fan of the Communist Chinese method? Charging the family for the bullet?

Tell him/her I said "fuck you".

[Dappleganger]

48. Good luck in finding many parents...

who stick junior with grandma who doesn't have a clue what to do next, is on a limited income and facing her own personal issues.

[msanthrope]

53. As someone who did plenty of juvie work, I have to agree with your statements--98%

of the time.

98% of the time, it truly is bad parenting, bad modeling, and/or poor supervision or control over the children.

Then you get the 2% who have a kid that is damaged in ways beyond their responsibility and/or control.

Many parents, when their kid enters the juvie system, self-correct, and get their houses in order. Some, it takes a few incidents. And some just never, ever own up to their responsibility.

And yes, they should pay.

[laughingliberal]

13. Great! No services and social programs to help poor parents raise their children. Then gouge them...

when the kids get in trouble.

Here's a statistic for you from Texas a few years back:

49th in spending for social programs
1st in prison population.

[PeaceNikki]

17. Yes, the rich kids don't sit in detention. They get high-priced lawyers to get the kid out

and stick them in boot camps or church groups.

It's the families where the parents are working 2-3 jobs to get things paid and aren't around to BE the parents they need to be that end up with kids in trouble. The single moms who have never received help or child support.

[laughingliberal]

19. Yep. And look at all the Democrats cheering about this horror in this thread. nt

[Hepburn]

18. Yep...

...parents are legally obligated to support a minor child ~~ unless her or she is married or has become emancipated. Does not matter is the child is in foster care, juvie, or under a guardianship...support is owed. That at least is true in Calif.

[laughingliberal]

24. Yep. Everyone's on their own here in America. Except Wall Street, of course. eom

[Tsiyu]

32. How about the Pennsylvania judges

convicted of sending kids to long stints in juvie so they could pocket some kickbacks from their friend, the juvie prison builder?

It's a different world these days than when my old happy ass was a kid. You look at a cop wrong as a kid and you've got a sentence. Lots of $$$$ in it for the counties and the lawyers.

Then you add school resource officers to the mix. A fight that once was broken up and forgotten is now an assault charge.

Right or wrong? I don't know.

But when 1 in every 31 of us is in prison or on supervised probation or parole, we sure are a criminal bunch of people in this country.

We'll all be felons soon and then what will it mean anymore to be an ex-Con? No cool points ...



Note: not to minimize the horror that parents of self-destructive kids face...I agree there are times when a bit of lockup is merited. Just not for "one in every thirty-one" of us...no way - no how

[laughingliberal]

39. +1000 nt

[surrealAmerican]

47. Why must we revive every failed idea from the past?

This was the norm in the 18th and 19th centuries: prisoners and their families paying for their "keep". We stopped doing it for good reason.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. Because the punishist perverts must have their submission porn fix.

For them, boots crushing the face of the weak >>>>> healthy genitalia in happy action.