Sometimes I don't know if I can take much more

[wcast]

I come on DU several times throughout the day. I read much and post little, except when I feel strongly. But it seems that the more I read, the more depressed I feel. I really thought with the change in administration, and the huge majorities in both the Senate and House, things would change radically. But instead, they seem to have gotten worse.

In looking at the greatest posts, we have a story about a poll of how people feel about unions, in which those against unions are running at 4 to 1. I know it's not scientific, but it seems to back up what I hear in my own community. We seem to be devolving into the lowest common denominator, i.e. if I don't have it, you shouldn't either, instead of, I want it too.

Then I see another post about Arne Duncan and plans to privatize education. There are even those on DU who seem to think that teachers and their unions are greedy and harmful to education. Many in our communities seem to blame us for the failures instead of laying blame where it belongs, which is the failure to fully fund education and make it a real priority. If charter schools are so good, why aren't all schools charters? It's because charters, like private schools, can pick and choose. Someone is still left with those no one wants.

And to top it all off, I read a post where there is real thought of extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. In the last 20 years, only the top fifth has made more money in real dollars, with the top one percent making a killing. But we don't need unions, or universal health,and many in the other four-fifths seem to fall for the same old line from Repubs over and over.

I know that a lot of great changes have taken place over the last two years, but it sure seems slow in coming. I am both a teacher, and union, (almost from birth as my dad was UAW), and i can't get over how both have fallen so far so fast. What I stand for and believe in is derided every day, and those voices seem to get stronger and stronger. I want to have hope that things will turn around and that the American electorate will pull their heads out of their collective asses, but I have little faith that they will.

For 30 years we have been bullied and harassed, until even we start to believe the message. I want to be in a Democratic party that fights just as vehemently for its constituents as the Repubs fight against ours. I want a Democratic party that is not afraid to stand up for its beliefs and say exactly what it means. I want a Democratic party that will shake up the status quo and give up its corporate ties. And I want Democrats themselves to take to the streets with their message, shouting it loud and proud, never backing down, and to hell with good manners and listening to the other side. There can be no compromise. If Repubs can march in lock step, so can we!! This is a fight we have to win, or there will be little difference between the two parties.

[Dappleganger]

1. You are not alone.

I want those things too.

[Go2Peace]

94. Our nation has been battered by propaganda to the point that it is mentally ill.

Seriously, I think we have a national psychosis. We are bombarded with forceful messaging day and night and it is having it's effect. We are no longer a rational nation.

[Go2Peace]

96. There are few national voices countering Neo-Liberal Ideas

As long as both parties sound the same people will believe there are no other rational alternatives. That is why so many on this site get frustrated that the Democrats are not more clearly different, not because they expect everything now, but because they understand that things won't really change until a Party gives the nation an alternative vision.
We already had that vision, but we have abandoned it. All we need to do is return to it. And then PROCLAIM it as if it is the truth, because IT IS!

This tactic of trying to work within the Republican world view actually REINFORCES the damn REPUBLICANS and their ideas and moves the nation further and further to the right.

[Cal33]

100. Yes. Our nation has moved further and further to the right. The

consequences are devastating, and will become even worse, unless
the American people make a drastic change. Frankly, I don't see
this change coming. I sure hope it would.

[Go2Peace]

114. But that was theater, not a "movement"

But it does demonstrate the power that passion has, even if it is evil ideology.

[Cal33]

116. You may be riight, but we have less than 2 months for any

concrete change to show up.

[FedUp_Queer]

108. Or maybe...

The difference is we read and talk amongst ourselves on blogs and in coffee houses and they gather at the Lincoln Memorial. I'm not saying that to be sarcastic because I really don't know.

[librechik]

2. well said and welcome to DU!

hang in there--it's a lot like real life...

[TBF]

3. For thirty years we have been bullied and harassed -

and even longer than that (starting oh around the start of this fine "Union" - how ironic) for Native Americans.

It has been a class war for a long time, and capitalism just magnifies it.

The only chance we have is to fight back. I had hoped Obama would be part of that fight, but unfortunately all evidence shows he has taken up with the other side instead.

[UTUSN]

4. Wow, I'm the BIG #5 K&R, but Rethugs won't make your life better. I'm not going into details n/t

[Skittles]

5. propaganda - it works on more than just repukes

[BrklynLiberal]

6. The repukes/conservatives, have out-messaged, out-defined the debate, and out-manipulated

the Democrats so totally that it is difficult to put into perspective.

The Dems were the Amateurs playing against the Repuke Pros.

If someone in the West Wing does not pick up a copy of some of George Lakoff's writings soon, and put them into action, I do not hold out much hope for our future..

The repukes are Lucy, and the Dems are Charlie Brown:

[wcast]

9. Great Analogy!! NT

[Jakes Progress]

19. I don't know a way around it.

The progressive wing of the party believes that right should be done. The repukes and the DLC only care about winning.

There are things the progressives won't do to win, lies we won't tell. There is nothing that the repukes and the DLC won't do to win. We are at a disadvantage that must exist. If we act like the republicans and the centerists, we become them.

[StreetKnowledge]

25. But the sad fact is that to do good, do what we want to do.....

.....we MUST become them. Sad, but true. If we want to build a better America, we have to destroy these people, one way or another. We can't do that by being nice guys. We have to become the monsters ourselves to remove the monsters. What we have to do is figure out how we can be mean, hardheaded and ruthless enough to remove the right from power, while also keeping our own values and morals.

[Ramulux]

29. I think its easier than it sounds

I dont think we have to sacrifice anything in order to compete in the messaging department with the repubs. All we need to do is be merciless and relentless, we have to stop playing games and simply recognize that we are in fact in the middle of an ideological war. The repubs understand this and because they understand this they are able to create a comprehensive strategy for destroying the credibility and approval of the opposition party.

We have lost, because the entirety of the republican party has painted the democrats as insane horrible people who will destroy everything you love about this country. They are completely united in spreading this belief to all who will listen while never admitting any of their own faults. The democrats are nowhere near this united and cant be simply because there are conservatives within the democratic party who do not hold liberal or left-leaning beliefs. Because of the fact that people like Ben Nelson exist within the democratic party, the actual liberal democrats are unable to make claims about what the democratic party as a whole believes in, because there are people within the party that are against any sort of progress that could really help this country.

This also brings me to the bigger problem the dems have. The democrats have tried to play buddy-buddy with people who could not hate them more and who never had any inclination to support anything they did. The dems allowed them to put all sorts of horrible amendments into what could have been great pieces of legislation and in many cases just flat out adopted the conservative position on certain issues. What this has done is create a situation in which the dems cannot call out the repubs for the horrible pieces of shit that they are because they have spent the last 2 years pretending like they are totally reasonable and actually brought something positive to the table. You cant all of the sudden go "All the republicans are terrible obstructionists who have no good ideas" when you have spent the past 2 years stressing how important bipartisan approval is.

[BrklynLiberal]

58. Very well said. I know there must be a way to describe it..."LOSE-LOSE"?

The only way to win is to adopt their tactics..and then, we ARE them....sad, sad, sad...

We are no longer a place to come to in order to have your dreams come true. The phrase "American dream" is meaningless. It is now an "American Nightmare"...thanks to the money-hungry, greedy repukes and those that are compliant enough to aid and abet them.

[JDPriestly]

36. Telling the truth, oddly enough, usually wins over clever lies.

So we need to keep telling the truth.

Obama is getting into trouble with his base because he has not been honest about his relationship with the banks, about his reluctance to stem the tide of foreclosures, about his stance on free trade, about his support for the insurance companies, about his stance on gay marriage and the end of Don't Ask, Don't Tell. The list of things that Obama has not been honest about is very, very long.

[BrklynLiberal]

59. The probelm nowadays is that the truth we tell hardly ever makes it into the MSM

while every single lie the repukes and tbaggers tell, no matter how preposterous, makes headlines and is repeated endlessly, all day long.

[JDPriestly]

63. Yes, but we have had "control" of Congress (supposedly)

for four years now and have not done a thing about media reform. We know why we have no access to the media -- because we have allowed cartels to take complete control of it.

Meanwhile, there is Pacifica Radio. It is listener sponsored -- and its listeners have been impoverished by the economic downturn. That's about all the media that we really have left. And I am not fond of Pacifica because it is irrationally anti-Israel on so many of its programs.

[BrklynLiberal]

95. Putting the quotes around "control" was appropriate since we never did have

it.

Between the half-hearted leadership and the blocking by the repukes and blue dogs...the repukes never had to sit back and watch something they hated being passed by the Democratic "majority". Even when the House sometimes succeeded, the Senate would pull the rug out from under them and water down or totally annihilate the essence of the bills they passed to the point they were unrecognizable...

[Go2Peace]

98. Telling "the truth" does *not* change minds. Minds change through emotion

We really need to get better educated on how the mind works. That is what people like George Lakoff keep trying to tell us. They are mind and language scientists, they know.

But you don't have to LIE, you just have to properly FRAME and have conviction and build a firm message. The message of the Democrats fails because they try and use Republican FRAMES and add some logic to it in hopes people will get it. They never freaking will, because they use brain synapses that only lead in one fucking direction. They have to challenge people and include an emotional construct.

Leaders do that. Good leaders give a message, but it is filled with PASSION. That is how you break it. But you ALSO have to REFRAME the ideas in the process. It is two part.

[JDPriestly]

111. I agree about framing. But we really don't have to make up lies.

We are far more convincing when we are integrated -- when we know that what we are saying is based on true facts. Sometimes you can hear the hesitation of a liar in the person's voice. I agree with you about framing, but our politicians just don't seem to get it.

[BrklynLiberal]

112. EXACTLY!!!!

I wish I had $100 in my hands right now for every time I have posted George Lakoff's name in the past 4years!!!

Why the hell isn't EVERYONE in the West Wing reading and studying George Lakoff!!!???

The repukes have Viguerie and Luntz..and their advice is followed ALL THE TIME

Why aren't the Dems following suit and using the wisdom of Lakoff???
Makes me really wonder what the hell is going on in DC.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8924978

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9078708&mesg_id=9082582

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=9081915&mesg_id=9081982

Do a DU search on my name and "George Lakoff" for the last 6 months...you will see ho many times I have brought up his name

[FedUp_Queer]

107. Really?

How many people now believe Obama is Muslim or not born here?

[BrklynLiberal]

113. Excellent point!!! The truth will NOT set us free.....

The better framed message, and the better defined debate will do the job...
Standing up strongly for progressive principles is not such a bad idea either...

[Fried Chicken Ninja]

54. "remove the right from power"?????

i thought we controlled the house, senate and presidency.

[BrklynLiberal]

60. yeah,right.....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[pattmarty]

71. Start reading a LOT of books and people of the 50's, 60's and 70's......

.........There is an awful lot of information about how united and disciplined a lot of the "left" was in those times of civil rights, the Vietnam war AND GOVERNMENT SPYING on citizens. We aren't united today under one or two important issues and the colleges are as quiet as a library. I've personally given up hope, but if it is going to happen, it better happen REAL soon.

[xxqqqzme]

80. Only problem is the DLC

only wins in their own races, further weakening the Democrats. Then those DLCers go up against the rethugs and lose. Wasn't it Truman who observed that given a choice between a Democrat. acting like a rethuglican, and a rethuglican, the people will elect the rethuglican every time?

I am running for an assembly seat here in California. The Democrats are so demoralized, I fear we are going to lose Boxer and end up w/ nutmeg as governor.

[BrklynLiberal]

97. The fact that Boxer is not a shoo-in is a horrific comment on what the Dems in power are doing.

They undermine the real liberals and progressives, facilitate the repukes, and take no real moral stands at all.

If things do not change radically, and quickly, It will soon be as one party country....even if there are two names for it.

[shireen]

65. We're Charlie.

Great but sad cartoon.

[another saigon]

85. once upon a time I would have believed that

Sadly, today, the empire has no mask. The democrats are in collusion with the repukes and the corporate oligarchs.

[Lorien]

101. Either that, or they really are on the same team. nt

[AldebTX]

7. K&R

[provis99]

8. I think Steve Earle sang it best:

"There's foxes in the hen house
Cows out in the corn
The unions have been busted
Their proud red banners torn
To listen to the radio
You'd think that all was well
But you and me and Cisco know
It's going straight to hell..."

[wcast]

10. That is the truth!! NT

[Odin2005]

11. Our party has been taken over by Fascist-Lite Corporatists.

It's not pretty.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. +1

:thumbsup:

[pleah]

55. +1000

[MissDeeds]

74. + 1001

I hardly recognize the party anymore.

[laughingliberal]

87. They went by the name, "Reagan Democrats" in the past

Today, their monikers are "DLC," "New Democrats," and 'moderates.'

[femmocrat]

12. Welcome to DU, wcast. You are not alone!

Fellow teacher and union member here! :hi: There are actually quite a few of us here. I truly do not understand how any democrat can support Duncan, but some do. I just figure that it is our responsibility as educators to educate them! :)

Your last paragraph deserves its own special spot on the Greatest Page! Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions here. It does get frustrating, but having DU to turn to helps to lighten the load and brighten my day.

[wcast]

15. Thanks!!

[EC]

13. It's the walmartitization of America

everything is cheap and everything is made cheaply....and have you noticed the repubs don't even give labor it's due on Labor Day? They now say it's to celebrate other things but not labor...



That's from years of diversions - instead of saying yeah we screwed up with the trade agreements - it's the damn Unions making businesses move to other countries...not the big tax breaks we give them to do it...

[Sherman A1]

27. Precisely

You hit the nail on the head. :toast:

[Jamastiene]

14. I sure am glad I saw this post in time to K&R

Great post. I couldn't have said it better.

[glitch]

16. Don't let the compromises this admin has made get you down. Fight for Congress!

:hug: And belated welcome to DU!

[RainDog]

17. great post

and welcome to DU.

[handmade34]

18. we need you

we need evryone of us to fight

[Hannah Bell]

20. +100. don't let the sons of bitches win.

[Jakes Progress]

21. Glad to K&R

As for the union bashing on DU, it's just like union bashers anywhere. It is done by people with no history in them, by people with little brains and little imagination.

[Reader Rabbit]

22. This teacher thanks you.- n/t

[BlueJazz]

23. Again....You are not alone....I'm with you.

:) :)

[Jim_Shorts]

24. They say we must be civil

but the time has come and gone to be civil. If people don't get good and mad nothing is going to change. "CHANGE" uh I can hardly use the word now - I think it must mean "the status quo" according to Obama. Germany is probably the strongest economy in the world right now and is completely unionized.(the workers can vote to dismiss a ceo if he's not to their liking)

I think some democrats have good intentions when they first get to Washington but then they start worrying about losing their job and they probably will if they fight for real change. Besides they have great health care, retirement plan and maybe a cushy job when they get out.

[snagglepuss]

26. Wierd. Earlier on another thread I was going to write something identical

to what you wrote about not being able to use the word change. I was also going to write that Dems should ditch hope and change as a rallying call because that is painful to hear and it will just create bad feelings. I then thought I might write something snarky like suggesting the rallying cry be tweeked a bit, just a wee alteration so instead of Hope and Change, Hopeless and Changeless. But I thought better and said nothing.


Welcome to DU.

[RandomThoughts]

28. Things have not gotten worse.

They actually have gotten better.

Your just being allowed to see what has been going on for years, so it seems worse.

It is a bit of a catch 22, but really things are getting better because they look like they are getting worse.

[awoke_in_2003]

81. you do have a point...

this has been going on for years, it just got blatantly obvious since 2000.

[defendandprotect]

30. What you're recognizing is that DU liberals/progressives are moving out of DU....

and leaving DU to the right wing/DLC here --

That's my judgement of what's going on --

but, no, I don't see those same right wing opinions among ordinary citizens --

I do see citizens confused by right wing propaganda but when you talk with them,

it's clear they want the New Deal back! And they certainly don't want to see

Social Security or Medicare overturned --

They also know economy and jobs are a huge problem and Obama doing little about it!!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[peace frog]

41. I'm dismayed and disgusted

What is DU when it's been overrun with morans and wingnuts? It may very well be a Democratic Underground but it's not the Democratic party I can align myself with.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

31. How right you are.

Think about attending the One Nation March in Washington on Oct. 2nd.
If enough people show maybe it will send a message.

You are not alone. And yes we are in crisis and we must act.

http://www.bigeddieradio.com/

[wcast]

104. I didn't know about this. Thanks for sharing!

[Daphne08]

32. I often the same way.

Sometimes I simply have to ignore the news and the internet altogether because it is so depressing.

I take a break from it all. Perhaps that would help you as well.

By the way, I taught for 17 1/2 years (various subjects in grades 7-12) and I cannot believe our President is allowing Arne Duncan to declare war on this nation's teachers! I've never seen anything like it and I'm 61.

But you are right. If we don't get our Middle Class back, our grandchildren will suffer in ways we cannot imagine.

[shireen]

64. it's so exhausting.

I am a US citizen by choice. I don't regret the decision because i really do love this country. It hurts to see the pain we're in, and I worry about the future of my friends' children.

I feel like i'm watching a slow death. It breaks my heart.

:hug: to you and all ...

[southmost]

33. great post

but can some of the teachers explain to me how the republicans have brainwashed the majority of teachers to vote against their best interests for the last 10 years?

for example during the 2000 and 2004 election cycle, my daughter's class would hold mock elections, and she told me she voted for shrub each time just like everyone else in class/ i was seriously p.o'd

also, here at work most union members are staunch refuglicans... i dint get it at all?

i like you am fed up with this nonsense...

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[axollot]

77. Are you in the "South"? My S.O works for Georgia Pacific which is a

Union run factory in FL (purchased by Koch tho irony). The guys that have worked there for the last 20+ years are all RW voters and anti-union until they have to use it. The local here is very weak but that's a sign of all locals of the last 30 odd years - getting weaker and weaker as union jobs go over seas.

Cheers
:hug:
Sandy

[wcast]

105. Might as well be in the south

I am at the top of the famous T in PA.

[axollot]

117. Well the post I was replying to in that instance was moderator deleted. Not too sure why..

as I got the impression they were upset that unions were demonized so much where they lived - which as it turned out was Texas (looked at profile after posting to answer my own question lol).

Oh well. I have had 1 post deleted over the years. Not that it was too far out of line but just enough to remove it. While we see other posts remain regardless *shrug*

Cheers and thanks for replying

Sandy

[JDPriestly]

35. Great post! Thanks!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bos1]

39. No, it's NOT worse now than with Bush.

First of all I agree with your positions and understand your frustration on these issues, but you cannot blame Obama for every trend in public opinion or the power of the right wing's billion dollar propaganda machine. Problems with your post:

"I really thought with the change in administration, and the huge majorities in both the Senate and House, things would change radically."

Look at it this way. The Repubs are about 95% beholden to the richest 10%, the corporations (military, oil, pharmaceutical etc) and the Democrats about 50%. Money controls US politics and this country has always had a fight between the insane right wing versus the fighters for freedom of the progressives. And overall we are winning! But you don't get radical change out of that, and the positive change we have got in the last two years is just about miraculous.

"I am both a teacher, and union, (almost from birth as my dad was UAW), and i can't get over how both have fallen so far so fast."
About unions and privatization of education, both of these are things that have been creeping along for decades, and due to point one, these trends cannot be stopped soon or easily.

"I know that a lot of great changes have taken place over the last two years, but it sure seems slow in coming."
Please note your oxymoron in this one. A lot of great changes in just two years does not equate with slow!

"And I want Democrats themselves to take to the streets with their message, shouting it loud and proud, never backing down, and to hell with good manners and listening to the other side. There can be no compromise. If Repubs can march in lock step, so can we!"
Please see point one again (a centrist party full of internal disagreements cannot march in lockstep, and I am not sure we would want that), and if you want to shout it loud and proud, then start with yourself! Stop being depressed, shout loud and proud about those great changes over the last two years that you acknowledge, tell everyone around you, volunteer, get on the phone and go door to door, and keep the ball rolling. I haven't stopped celebrating Obama's victory and want everyone to keep the party going (pun intended). Let's roll!

[classof56]

44. Thanks for your well-reasoned, articulate response.

Wish I could K&R your post--but again, I thank you for it. Considering the obstructionist juggernaut the Republicans in Congress have turned out to be, it is amazing the administration has accomplished what it has. Let's stay focused and as you said, keep on rolling and yes, celebrate!

[Martin Eden]

40. The disparagement of Unions is just sickening

Every working American owes a great deal to unions -- from decent wages in safe working conditions to the 40-hour week and paid holidays. My family was involved in the labor movement in the 20's & 30's, and they had to fight (often at great risk to themselves) for so many things we take for granted today.

The right is wrong on so many things, but that has never deterred them from hammering away day after day with their messages that unions are bad, that government of the people is the enemy of the people, that "liberal" is a bad word and "progressive" is worse, and that any reduction in military spending is a capitulation to the muslim menace.

Most of the teabaggers are up in arms protesting against their own best interests but they don't know it because they have been indoctrinated by the rightwing noise machine that owes its success to a lack of anything equally effective from the Left or from the Democratic Party.

I heard a quip the other day that the Democrats wanted stem cell research to provide a medical breakthrough so they can grow a spine, but I fear that's not the case. I suspect that more and more of the Democratic Party heirarchy has been co-opted by the same deep-pocket corporate interests that also fund the Rethugs.

When we have a Democratic president and majorities in both houses and it still feels like we're out of power and our voices aren't being heard, something is seriously wrong in this country.

[Catshrink]

46. Indeed, the disparagementof unions is depressing.

Maybe "The Jungle" should be required reading. OTOH, I think some people are just mean and acting out grudges against that one teacher they've despised their whole life: "I can't get back at Mrs. Jones but I can harass teachers on DU and say all the mean stuff I couldn't say to her." I've seen the number of personal attacks grow.

DU has changed. :cry:

[Doctor_J]

42. The right wing propaganda has been wildly successful, even at DU

Besides those who blame unions for the economy, there are those who believe that the president is going to take everyone's guns away, those who believe that Hugo Chavez is another Pinochet, and that all schools should be privatized. Yesterday one of the gun nuts told me that Fox News is mainstream.

The single most destructive entity in this country is Big Media. If we are to have any hope to return the US to greatness, heavy casualties are going to have to be inflicted right there - from Beck & Limpballs right down to your local wannabes.

[FirstTimeVoterAt37]

43. A lot of progressive sites have become morale killers

Inadvertently, I'm sure, but still. It's not a localized phenomenon by any stretch. I had to quit going to HuffPo for a few days after reading Arianna's snit about the oval office decor.

[axollot]

79. Yah there are some "shake my head" posts to be found there -

what keeps me coming back to the site are the great threads where rather than get into a "snit" over Beckkk and his followers in the threads I see us all come together for a laugh and the jokes roll in so fast the trolls run away or just hit the abuse button. At the end of the day I have a laugh and so do my fellow posters who refuse to be dragged into the gutter with the rabid RW.

Cheers
Sandy

[awoke_in_2003]

82. Arianna is not...

a progressive- she has always been "anti-party in charge"

[femrap]

45. I want a Prez who will

say to the Greedy Corporations: "I welcome your hatred," as did FDR.

I don't want more roads or runways...I want CLEAN WATER. I believe our water system needs to be updated as well as our sewage systems. I want SOLAR PLANTS.

Railroads? I suppose. Then why do we need the runways?

I don't know who is advising him, but it doesn't sound very forward thinking, imho.

[davidwparker]

51. That won't happen until we get someone with a proven

track record of doing so, chosen during the primaries.

Did Obama have such a record? No.

Better vote for the progressive in the primaries from Iowa on if you want someone in the WH to be progressive.

[femrap]

61. I think the system is

rigged by TPTB. No progressives are allowed in the running. Look what happened to Dean. And it makes me sick that Rahm is getting credit for what Dean did in 2006.

Unless the people stand up, nothing will happen. And that won't happen until The People have nothing to lose by doing so. Or maybe The People are just too beaten down.

I don't know. I wish I lived in France...or Germany.

[rhett o rick]

47. Unless we get a strategy for fighting the corporate propaganda machine, all is lost. nm

[GeorgeGist]

49. "We the people ...

is socialism.

[OnionPatch]

50. We've been reduced to squabbling over crumbs.

And, of course it's the corporate propaganda machine that's convinced many working people that our problems is other working people getting too much. If someone gets a crumb or two more than you, that's the problem, not the greed of the people slicing the bread. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

52. Progress is being made. You and many other DU'ers are invested in not noticing it.

[BulletproofLandshark]

62. And yet other DUers are invested in dismissing legitimate concerns. n/t

[shireen]

66. make a list.

then let's examine each point to see how much of it is a major victory, and how much of it is pennies back on the dollar we invested.

[ChiciB1]

53. Well, The Hopey/Changey Thing HASN'T Happened AND What's More...

I don't think is IS GOING to happen! When you're BOUGHT, you sell a little of your SOUL every time MONEY comes calling!!

Pretty simple to me!! Repukes REALLY don't have any good leaders, but OUR LEADERS look like milquetoast! Somewhere along the line, THEY not only lost their spine, they seemed to have turned THEIR BACKS ON US!!

The march in October is a GREAT IDEA, and I want to be there because it's better than sitting here at my PC complaining!! I don't CARE what OBAMA & his cabinet thing about it, IT NEEDS TO BE DONE!! We have been forgotten and passed over by GREED!!

I'm outta here now!! It's LABOR day, and I have some LABOR to do!!!

[AnArmyVeteran]

56. Great OP! And THANKS for being a teacher!!!!!!!

Teachers are overworked, underpaid and unappreciated. They used to be very respected members of communities, but after years of attacks, mostly from the right, teachers have become targets for all the problems in the education system. Rod Paige, the Sec of Education under Bush even compared teachers unions to terrorist organizations.

[Catshrink]

57. Thank you for your support.

In this environment, it really does mean a lot!

[shireen]

67. +1

[axollot]

68. Please post more often!! You're spot on re: charter schools. K & R!

[bobbolink]

69. You are prophetically expressing the angst of many voters.

" I really thought with the change in administration, and the huge majorities in both the Senate and House, things would change radically. But instead, they seem to have gotten worse."

For at least the poor among us, it HAS gotten worse.. MUCH worse, directly at the hands of the Dems.

What you are saying.. that sentence I quoted, is what I hear from a lot of people. I have tried to say to DUers that this is what voters are feeling and thinking... not a lot of the population is addicted to politics, and they only kinow what they see and what they feel.

By ignoring this and telling us to get in line, the stage has been set for a big surprise for the Dems.

By NOT LISTENING to people who are disaffected, by ignoring and vilifying those you dont' want to hear, and just putting energy into silly posts about Sarah Palin instead of interacting with people. listening to them, and getting busy in pushing for what people REALLY need and expect, the results are you lose touch with others, and think that everyone is on board with only you.

T'ain't so.

[awoke_in_2003]

84. You got it, bobbo...

it sucks when congress has to debate cutting food stamps to raise teachers' pay, but we can pour untold billions into Iraq and Afghanistan. Supposedly, democrats are in charge- could have fooled me.

[harmonicon]

70. "will be"? nt

[axollot]

72. As previously mentioned - I love your post but with one

small caveat. No lock step echo chamber. We need to come to our collective conclusions as progressive Dems as we usually do - by debating and questioning and talking - not just agreeing because we are on the "same team".
Although, I'm fairly certain that you do not mean for us to come down to their level but to continue to stick together ala union style. (side note - I am working with my local community over recent flooding by getting our voice to be heard collectively rather than ignored by the county individually).

The reason our elected Democrats are not working for *us*, their constituents as we expect them to, comes down to one reason - MONEY. In essence the Democrats in office (while miles ahead and a thousand times better than Republicans) do work for their "constituents" except it's not you or I anymore it's the highest bidder in their campaign. Money buys their ear and no single one of us has enough to be heard when competing with large corporations.

There is an answer that I tell everyone who will listen - we need to dump corporate person-hood as accepted law and change the way our elections are financed. Unless we do that nothing will change and we will continue to see the commons eaten up like something right out of Stephen King's short story "The Langoliers" - eating time, except by corporations to large to hold any single person accountable for their actions.



Cheers
Sandy
(who also doesnt post a lot - DU lurker since 2002 and active member since March 2003. As well as a huge fan of Thom Hartmann - reading his books have helped me understand that it comes down to those 2 things, that are so simple but it's like trying to move a mountain alone w/o dynamite).

[wcast]

103. I agee

Not lockstep without thinking, but sticking together, putting those most vulnerable first, working to bring them up. As for corporate person-hood, you are spot on. I have a buddy, originally from Arkansas, PA the last 10 years, pretty rightward thinking, thought Palin was hot. He doesn't like the ruling, and actually agreed with me today that the way to end a lot of our problems would be to increase SSI, using that in place of a pension, and allowing all to buy into medicare. That way you can move from job to job without fear of losing both. If he thinks that way, there are untold millions that do also, we just need to tap into them instead of running scared from the beltway echo chamber.

[OutNow]

73. Politicians don't change the country - People Do

Imagine (I know it's not possible right now) that an authentic Socialist was elected President tomorrow. Someone like Bernie Sanders. How much would change in one day, one week, one year? Not too much.

Yes, a few cosmetic changes, maybe a more rapid withdrawal from foreign wars, maybe the EFCA would become law. But elections, by themselves, don't really change the basic structure of the rabid capitalism that runs this country and the world. The only way we have made progress in this country is by organizing and mobilizing the people. The CIO organizing is what led to the Wagner Act passing; the civil rights organizing is what led to Voting Rights and Civil Rights passing. The same with gaining the vote for women, ending the war in Vietnam, etc.

In the old days (30 - 40 years ago) great liberals like Bela Abzug would talk about this in every stump speech. "Push me to the left", she would encourage us to do. "Make it impossible for the Congress to vote more money for the Vietnam War". Organize, organize, organize.

I am not against electing good Democrats to office. I voted for Obama and will do it again. But that's only the start of the process to make real change, not the end of the process.

[southernyankeebelle]

75. You are not alone. Everyday I get upset. I never belonged to a union but

I support unions. I try to tell people unions gave to all the things you have now like 5 days work week. The unions are the backbone to our country.

[suffragette]

76. Fantastic post

Hope to see more from you.

[Ladyhawk]

78. I started having suicidal thoughts again when I started reading DU (again).

So why the fuck am I here?

Oh yeah. I shouldn't be. Sorry.

I must leave and try very, very hard to stay away this time.

[laughingliberal]

83. When the reality of the oppressed matches the reality of the oppressor, the oppression is complete.

That's what you're seeing. People who happily look down on the poor, the homeless, the disenfranchised worker, and participate in the bashing of unions, teachers, et al... are like lambs to the slaughter promoting the very attitudes and policies which will see them in the crosshairs soon enough.

They came for the poor and I said nothing because I was not poor.

They came for the union workers and I said nothing because I was not a union worker.

They came for the teachers and I said nothing because I was not a teacher.

They came for me, the formerly smug middle class worker.....

[bobbolink]

86. You got it pegged. And they can target us with their projected prejudice, because *we* are the only

group which doesn't have an organized protection behind it.

We have no NAACP, we have no Anti-Defamation League, we have no union, we have no public sentiment to protect us.

We are sitting ducks for everyone's free-floating hate, rage and fear.

The Empathy Gap by J.D. Trout 2009


p. 30 In the research of Fisk and her colleagues, people were asked how different social groups are viewed by their society. When asked a series of questions about social warmth and the competency of different social and ethnic groups, the answers clustered around four emotional responses: pity, envy, pride, and disgust. For example, people routinely react to the homeless with disgust. This is puzzling enough. You might have thought people would pity the homeless, empathize with their position, and feel sorry for them. Not at all. And in a functional MRI study, when study participants were presented with pictures of members from each social and ethnic group, the medial prefrontal cortex--the site that registers the potential for an object's social action--popped for all but one group: the homeless. The homeless maybe seen as human, but not fully so, not as social actors.14

[YvonneCa]

88. Thank you for your words...

...from a CA teacher. :hi:

[sam sarrha]

89. FYI.... wages... >Link>>

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

the top 1% have 6 times the financial wealth as the bottom 80% Americans and they have 72% of debt.

[Joe Chi Minh]

90. You just don't appreciate the flavour of Republicans' footwear, that's your

trouble! Seems there's a lot of licking and slurping of the shoes that kick them. How sad is that? Masochism as a political credo.

[lonestarnot]

91. But for the party of no.

[w4rma]

92. There are infiltrators and propagandists on this board. Some are being paid by well-funded PR firms.

That is what you are seeing.

Remember, Billionaires want more and more and more and have lots of money to use to get more. Propaganda is one way of doing it.

[slay]

110. +1

i tend to agree as some of them tried to get me banned last week and did result in a warning i got. be careful not to get drawn into talking too much shit about them though as they will just alert on you and you'll get a warning/ban.

[democrank]

93. K & R

Well stated, wcast.

[nannah]

99. me too. from the streets of boston during the 60's & early 70's

to today seems like a down hill slide in so many important ways. and the control of public awareness coupled with electronic voting machines make it hard to trust that things can shift to humane, life valuing ways of solving social and enviornmental issues, locally, nationally, and globally...controlling the information means controlling opinions.

[Lorien]

102. But we can't even get Dems on board to reinstate the Fairness Doctrine

some believe that breaking up media monopolies alone is the answer. It might help, but the wealthy will still be the owners either way. Reinstating the Fairness Doctrine and insisting on campaign finance reform is the only way out of this. Otherwise the downhill slide into full Fascism will continue.

[mstinamotorcity]

106. I choose not to sit idly

by and let them (repugs) win without a fight. The members of the Democratic party need to become more pro-active in their destiny. I have told my friends and family since they are closing a lot of polling places to take advantage of the early voting systems or the absentee ballot. They never have to leave the comfort of their home.
I write my Senators and Congressmen and DNC, DCCC and ask them where are the commercials that reflect our goals. Where are the commercials that state the crazy shit that Tea baggers and Republicans say out of their mouth. There are sound bites all over the place. That have the bulls--t that they say where we can actually see it come out of their lying faces.
And even though legislation that has passed has not always been as tough as I like it, I wear the accomplishments that our President has done with a smile and proud rhetoric. When I hear somebody saying something to the contrary I make sure I point out what things this administration has done that affords them some of the things that they have. When my friends or family or someone I know has benefited from one of the pieces of legislature or stimulus,including food stamp benefits, I remind them that it was our President and this administration that made it possible. When they mention tax cuts I remind them that 95% of Americans enjoyed a tax cut holiday. It is up to us and the rest of the Democratic Party to start screaming from the rooftops. And If that doesn't get it there is always Sharon Angle,Michele Bachmann,Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner who wants to be speaker of the house. I think I am going to be sick.

[slay]

109. I am sooooo with you

i won't go into the details of my experiences here at DU over the last week, but they did convince me that we need to fight for REAL PROGRESSIVE causes stronger than ever. we need a STRONG, progressive party, not the one of excuses, and not one which is less and less distingusihable from the republicans all the time. some think we should never question Obama and should back everything he does. i am NOT one of those people. we need a REAL democratic party, not republican-lite.

[MisterP]

115. in 1977-81 and 1988-94 there were calls by several Dems that said that the party and the country

had moved too far to the left; the 1980 change brought in Reagan and Thatcher, who attacked the "welfare state" as irresponsible and untenable, and gave us neoliberalism; the 90s changes gave us the DLC, post-1994 Clinton, and Blair, who, again, gave us neoliberalism; as of 2008 we have 1.5 parties in the US endorsing torture and corporatism, and Britain has cameras and precrime

[clarence swinney]

118. VOMIT THEN GO TELL THE PEOPLE--TRUTHS

DEMOCRATS ATTACK AGENDA

From 1980 to 2009
20 years 3 conservative Presidents
18 years conservative Senate
12 years conservative House
6 years TOTAL CONTROL=HELL

WHAT DID AMERICA GET IN THOSE 20 YEARS

600B to 3600
1000B to 10,000
237,000 to 99,000
1 to 9
0 to 2
Poe to Hoe
B to W
H & F

Any fool can memorize and use this short (8)list of disasters
only a loser will refuse to yell this information to the people

What do they mean?

Spending
debt
jobs
international conflicts
wars
peace to hell
best to worst
ideology to deja vu ideology

1980-2009
Spending—600B to 3600B Teapartiers are you listening?
Debt-1000B to 10,000B Deficit Hawks are you listening
237,000 Net New Jobs down to 99,000
1 convicted felon to 137 investigated/charged
2 major illegal horrid wars
Peace on Earth to Hell on Earth
Best rated World rated President to Worst
Houing Tsunnami & Financial Volcano

Ladies and Gentlemen How can a populace elect that record to rule our nation????

It is simple. The Rich Man's party owns Wall Street $$$$$—Media--Vote Count Machines

A Simpleton and a Fool if one votes for a Republican to Congress if :
Social Security Recipient
Medicare Recipient
Medicaid Recipient
Food Stamp Recipient
Child Care Recipient
Disability Recipient
Veteran Pension Recipient
Veteran Health Care Recipient
College Loan Recipient
Home Foreclosed
Member of Military
Minority
Minister
Christian
Muslim

This list is endless—Republican was known for decades as The Country Club Party now known as Wall Street Of America Party—owned by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

SOUND THE HORNS TELL THE PEOPLE

Awaken The Evil Ones are coming after you
They (14M) own 93% of Total Financial Wealth and will steal-lie-cheat-rob-kill to get the remaining 7% from you (127M)

clarence swinney
political historian since 1991 on Reagan-Clinton-Bush administrations
author-Lifeaholic—story of Workaholic failure to Lifeaholic success
Available for Lecture-Hootenanny in nc-va-sc-tenn
olduglymeanhonest