Is there something wrong with me?

[sinkingfeeling]

Last evening, as I sat on my porch, I saw and heard my neighbor encouraging his two sons, ages 11 and 9, to repeatedly shoot a squirrel with an air rifle. They succeeded to gleefully shoot it 4 times. They were screaming, "Come here, Dad and look at this!" And, "We got it!!" He kept yelling back, "Shoot it in the head. Shoot it in the head", as he sat and read his paper. He finally went out front to where his kids were and came back with his arms raised in a sign of victory, yelling, "They got it!"

I was physically ill. What is wrong with people to teach their children to needlessly kill a harmless, defenseless animal?

I'm 59 years old and will admit to deliberately taking the lives of two creatures (above the insect level, as I do swat flies, mosquitoes, ants, and an occasional wasp) in my lifetime. One was an act of revenge and the other an act of mercy.

I once beat a Colorado River toad to death after it came into my walled Tucson yard and killed one of my three dogs. As I hit it with a shovel, tears streamed down my face and I have prayed for forgiveness although I'm an atheist. I truly regret that act of anger.

The other was a tiny field mouse. I bought one of those 'glue' traps when they first came out, thinking that I could then release the little pest once its feet were encased with glue. I didn't know what terribly cruel things those traps are. The mouse had fought so hard against the glue that its skin had become embedded and it had ripped it from its body. It must have been in terrible pain, so I 'finished' him off.

I will forever feel guilt for my deliberate destruction of those two living creatures. The only other animal to die by my actions was a rat I accidentally impaled with a pitch fork while I was cleaning out a barn stall as a teenager.

So, in your opinion, what's wrong with me?

[Monkeyman]

1. NO

[allthatjazz]

2. Nothing

I wish there were more people like you.

[shadowknows69]

5. What they said

...

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. What have you eaten?

Maybe the answer lies there.

[TwilightGardener]

4. I saved a tiny field mouse from a glue trap in my kitchen a few years

ago, AND KEPT HIM AS A PET (it was bitter cold outside). I kept him until spring and let him go. Now what's wrong with ME, LOL! My husband thought I was nutty.

[Suziq]

18. Glue Traps are SO Cruel

I work across the street from Ground Zero, and now it seems all the mice that were hanging out in the World Trade Center came over here after 9/11.

The company I work for puts out glue traps under the sinks located on every floor. I come into the office early and when I see one of those god awful traps, I toss it in the trash. They must think they are catching a ton of mice! My biggest fear is coming in one morning and hearing a poor mouse screaming from being trapped. It would break my heart . . . .

[hlthe2b]

31. Agree. that is the worst....(glue traps)

Makes the old 'snap traps' seem kind by comparison.

Sadly, I used one years ago when they were new to the market without realizing how they worked. I will never forget feeling so helpless, as I had intended to capture and release. Stupid, in retrospect, I know. It does pay to take the time to read fully, I guess.

[Igel]

45. Yes, but I found them to serve a good purpose once.

The apt. building we were in had mice. The manager kept saying it was impossible; maintenance would surely know. After the fourth or fifth complaint, I broke out the glue traps my wife had bought.

Next morning a mouse got stuck in it--it wasn't there when we woke up. I took the trap/mouse to the manager's office. The mouse was screaming hideously. I put the trap her desk and said, "There are mice in the building." She stared at it in horror--it was probably the first time she'd been that close to a mouse--then she moved away from it, struggling to find something to do with the muffin she had been eating. She said she'd tell maintenance about it.

I took the mouse home and put it in the freezer. It was unconscious within minutes, and dead soon thereafter.

My toddler (at the time) thought it all very fascinating.

[Jamastiene]

61. There is a trap that they make that works like a little cage.

It traps them using a piece of cracker or cheese as bait. You can take the entire trap out to a place away from people and release the mouse. I wish I could remember the name, but Family Dollar sold them years ago and my aunt and I talked a local video store owner into using them instead of getting the clap trap kind. We took them out in the country and released them when they were trapped. It didn't hurt them.

[Wednesdays]

72. There are several on the market

http://www.abundantearth.com/store/mousetrap1.html
http://www.victorpest.com/live_mouse_traps.htm
(the model I've used is the 2nd from the top in the above page)

And there are "live traps" for other animals as well, such as racoons, etc.
http://www.livetrap.com/

[AikidoSoul]

88. We ordered one of those "humane" traps and the critter died. Probably of fright.

We stopped trapping them.

Strange as it may seem a large Oak snake got into our house and must have taken care of the mice. We
have no idea how it got in and we have no idea how it got out -- or even IF it got out!

We don't like to kill anything... but we didn't know that when we first moved to the country.

We thought we could shoot ourselves a nice big deer just like our neighbors do all around these
parts.

We tried twice.

On a day when only bucks were allowed to be hunted we went to a spot where deerprints are found
all the time. We stood perfectly still with shotguns ready. Less than twenty minues later nine
beautiful doe stopped within forty feet of us and one of them looked right into my eyes. Even
though plenty of people would have shot doe even in buck season -- there was no way we could.

Next day we got up very early and sat drinking coffee on our back porch (deer walk by there
all the time). We waited and waited. It got too cold and we wanted more hot coffee so we
went to the office and on the way in set down the shotguns by the front door.

After a few sips my spouse went to the window and made the normal sound that signals me to
ask -- "what is it sweetness"? My darling spouse answered -- "there are some deer out here playing".

Together we looked out and saw them chasing one another and having a ball. We just grinned,
saying nothing.

The following spring the largest of the doe had twins under our house. Our house is up 4 ft off the ground
on pilings and an ideal shelter for deer in bad weather. When the fawns were strong enough she would
leave them nearby in the tall grass to do her rounds and then pick them up later. They used our
21 acres as home base. For years.

The following year she had another set of twins.
The same happened the next year.

She was unusual looking with a long, rectangular body -- very distinctive.

And then that family started to disappear because many hunters moved into this area because of the wildlife.

It took awhile but we learned who we are. We can't kill anything except mosquitoes and stinging yellow flies.

For God's sake -- we even feed the yellow flies to the black and white paper hornets that will actually take them out of our hands!

We feed the damned squirrels and lots of birds. Other critters show up too.

There are also hummingbird feeders everywhere on our big porch.

[uppityperson]

94. There are little solid ones for mice, not wires but solid walls

They get caught in a little space and can't see out so are supposed to settle down. Our mice were too big for them. Got a Havahart one for raccoons getting our chickens. Since we put the raccoon trap out no raccoons have come around. 2 yrs now. I think they saw it and decided to move on.

[Benhurst]

24. Field mice are neat. I'm with you on this.

[malta blue]

6. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you.

If there is, then there is something wrong with me, as I wholeheartedly agree with your position on the acts of your neighbor. Hell, I sometimes snap at my 7 year old daughter for stomping on ants (which I suppose all kids do, but somehow I am really disturbed by it, and I don't recall ever doing it myself).

I have only taken the lives of the field mice that my cats have left as gifts for me, and most of the time, they are beyond salvation. I did once sew up a baby bunny that the cat left. The only creature I can honestly say I have done in with vengeance is a cockroach. I am absolutely grossed out by them.

Perhaps you can talk to your neighbor about it.

I had neighbors who did the same thing, but the squirrels were falling in my yard, and then the dog would find them...you know what happens.

I talked to the parents and they could care less. I called the police and reported it. I know the police went to the house, and I never heard anything about it again. I did not find any more dead squirrels.

[Inuca]

7. Nothing!! n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. Nothing is wrong with you. But, how does a toad kill a dog?

[Sequoia]

12. That's what I'd like to know.

[nomatrix]

23. It's skin secretions are poisonous to dogs

http://www.arizonahighways.com/custom.cfm?name=c_nature.cfm&secid=34&id=163



To the OP......
There is nothing wrong with you.

On rare occasions, there are some, who never want to kill again, after experiencing the gun to their own head.

I think one of the best examples, in the movies, was "The Deer Hunter".

My father never shot his rifle again after the war. He was an infantry sharpshooter in the jungle.
He carried it along with him on long walks in the woods.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. They are toxic. My dog went into convulsions and high fever and died.

"The Colorado River toad is nocturnal and stays underground during the heat of the day. When a Colorado River toad is threatened, it will secrete a milky-white hallucinogenic toxin from the parotoid glands under its jaw. The toxin gets in the mouth of predators and can cause nausea and even death."

http://www.nhptv.org/natureworks/coloradorivertoad.htm

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. Thanks. It really was a puzzler for me.

[Booster]

9. I think you're wonderful. If there is something wrong with you, then

whatever it is more people need to be afflicted with the same problem. To me, all animals have just as much right to live in peace as we humans do - maybe even more. I think I've only killed one thing in my life (besides the ones you mentioned) and that was an accident. I feed the birds and squirrels in my yard every morning, and how someone could kill a squirrel for fun is beyond me - it's much more fun to watch them. You're a kind soul and there is nothing in the world wrong with that.

[ClayZ]

10. You are my KIND of HEARTED person!

We used a live trap and released the mouse out in a field. We though of him each time we went by that field for a couple years.

Anyone who teaches killing critters just for sport, is a sicko. Our son's cousin (11 years old) killed a snake by our cabin and his dad made him skin it and eat it. I approved.

[emilyg]

32. I approve, too

[alfredo]

11. You need more Ketchup

Brought to you by the Ketchup Advisory Board

If you don't listen to Prairie Home Companion you won't understand.

[bunkerbuster1]

13. You want to know what's wrong?

An auditorium full of Republican scum applauding Mitt Romney for boasting about making Gitmo twice as large so we can torture more terrorists. That's wrong. That's sick.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/15/gop-debate-ii-romney-double-guantanamo/

Loving animals? Being a bit tough on yourself when you cause them pain, even when you didn't intend to do so? That's not wrong.

[Terri S]

14. the world is so upside-down

decent people always ask .. "What is wrong with me". Of course, luv, nothing! Nothing at all.

[The2ndWheel]

15. I'd rather see that than what we do to pigs, cows, and chickens

At least they didn't mass produce the squirrels to shoot them.

But yeah, it's a fucked up world. We're all part of it in some way. It's going to stay that way too.

[Annces]

16. You have feelings

Albert Schweitzer

"Only that man is truly ethical who feels the necessity of assisting all life that he is able to help, and who shrinks from inflicting harm upon any living creature.

The tempter inside you may say - Why torture yourself? It is no good. Give up. stop caring. Be unconcerned and unfeeling like everybody else. Detach yourself.

Compassion really involves you in suffering. To share experience and lend a helping hand is an absolute inward necessity. Only this attitude will give meaning and value to your life. Counter the fear that compassion will involve you in suffering, with the realization that the sharing of sorrow expands your capacity to share joy as well."


It is quite gross to see a father teaching his children how to love killing and have no respect for life. A young person usually relishes the opportunity to be bigger and better than another living thing, but this should not be turned into a desire to destroy. In Wisconsin, tax payer money goes toward hunting classes, but none toward loving wildlife and respecting it. This will change.

[Pugee]

17. I don't see anything wrong with you, but

then, I just captured a spider in the house and released it outdoors this morning. (I do draw the line at ticks and roaches!)

[jwirr]

19. My family are hunters but I also share your feelings regarding this

idiot and his children. That is not sportsman like. I would guess his education will come home to haunt him.

[jilln]

21. Oh boy...

I'm not being sarcastic here, but how is shooting a squirrel in their yard any less sportsmanlike than shooting any other wild animal outoors?

Seems to me that the squirrel and the deer/quail/wild boar/wild turkey or whatever other unfortunate animal finds itself near your family in the woods have about the same chances - next to none.

[Gold Metal Flake]

29. Please.

What that man was teaching his kids is killing for fun anytime, anywhere, in any manner is OK. Expect those kids to proceed to kill any bird or squirrel they feel like at any time. Expect those kids to move on to killing dogs and cats. Expect them to become bullies. Expect them to learn to destroy property for fun. Expect them to run a good chance of growing up to be fine sociopaths prepared to inflict pain on any females in their lives.

Contrast that with someone who occasionally hunts game for food or who fishes, where a quick kill is not only desired but expected and practiced for.

As a child I was taught how to shoot and hunt. As an adult I chose not to. Those poor kids, they are being taught to murder for kicks. They will become the sort of "hunter" that Dick Cheney is, the kind that simply kill and kill and kill and leave the corpse behind because killing is the point.

If you claim to not see the difference, I would suspect it amuses you to pretend not to.

[jilln]

46. I wasn't asking you.

I was asking the person I addressed the post to and am interested in their reasoning behind that post.

[Gold Metal Flake]

47. Oh.

And here I was thinking that this was a public discussion board. Please proceed to get down with your hyper-focused and ever-so-exclusive bad self.

:hi:

[jilln]

49. Go ahead and get upset if you want.

I just wanted to know the poster's logic in that particular situation. I didn't want to hear from hunters how virtuous they are.

[Gold Metal Flake]

50. Ah. Logic.

Gonna look into that, are ya?

[krispos42]

48. The method and the shooters

Sounds like little kids with air rifles. Air rifles are not very powerful at all, and the little kids probably aren't very good shots.

There are minimums in many states on the amount of power you can legally use to hunt. In South Dakota it is 1,000 foot-pounds of energy for a rifle or shotgun, and 500 ft-lbs for a handgun.

The hunting magazines I have read also consider the maximum useful range of a deer bullet a) the lesser of the point at which it is still above 1,000 ft-lbs, or b) the range at which you an hit an 8" diameter target 90% of the time.

To summarize, if you can't place your shots accurately and with enough power to kill quickly, don't shoot. Sounds like the kids, with encouragement from the father, were violating both rules.

[Ghost in the Machine]

51. It's less sportsmanlike for several reasons.

First and foremost, if the OP were to check local laws, squirrel season should be closed now. Classified as a game animal, squirrels are only allowed to be hunted at certain times, not year round.

Second, kids using air rifles (BB guns) to kill a squirrel is just wrong. Most BB guns don't have enough power to cleanly kill a squirrel, but rather injure it instead. Most times, the squirrel would run off injured, and probably die anyways, or spend the rest of it's life maimed.

Third, the father was encouraging his kids to break the law, and torture an animal at the same time.

There is absolutely no excuse for them at all... and I'm a hunter. I would have called the game warden myself.

[jwirr]

52. What I was referring to was the use of the meat when we hunt and

the fact that we do not prolong the death. We are Native American and we are not going to apologize for being hunters.

[Enthusiast]

62. I agree...........

Another hunter here. The animal was out of season. The firearm was illegal for hunting as it doesn't have enough killing power. The father was setting a very poor example.

We eat what we kill. Squirrel is some wonderful eating. Really! Some of the very best. Many people don't understand hunting if they have not grown up with it.

In Ohio, where we live, there was actually a bounty on squirrels at one time as they were so numerous that they could almost strip a field of corn. Of Course this was many years ago when Ohio was still mostly heavy forest.

[DemGa]

22. No, nothing

I feel like you do.

[jojo54]

26. Don'cha feel a little crazy sometimes???

Don'cha feel like everyone else is eying you like you're a total nutjob???

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU FOR FEELING FOR A LIVE BEING (both the squirrel and those children). For the last 10 years, I've been on my own personal boycott of Proctor & Gamble because they refuse to use modern testing techniques vs. torturing animals. My family regards me as eccentric sometimes (I'm 53), but I feel good about myself so I don't let it bother me.

Maybe the next time you see this happening, you can (oops!) make some sort of loud noise to scare the animal away.

[Ganja Ninja]

27. I grew up on a farm and we killed animals all the time.

We had 8 kids in my family and we raised chickens and rabbits. We killed them for food not for fun. It was pretty gruesome at times.

Modern society has allowed people to be removed from the killing process. I could still do it today if I had to but I'm glad I don't.

[CoffeeCat]

28. There is something wrong with THEM, not you!

It's interesting that many serial killers share a commonality--many of them killed
animals as children.

It's a telltale sign that someone is able to objectify and emotionally detach from
living things--which is part of the serial killer mentality.

I can't imagine why a parent would think it would be healthy for their child to
view this act as something to whoop and holler about. After all, it's behavior
that can be construed as a sign of pathology.

If my daughers (ages 6,7) saw a hurt squirrel--they would be devastated and they
would want to help. They've been taught to respect all life and to help if someone
is in pain. That's just the way they should feel. That's normal and healthy.

Getting all fired up about shooting an animal---just because you can--isn't
healthy--especially for children.

[Az]

30. Embracing a free society comes with issues

Mainly that we cannot expect that those who live near us share our beliefs. As long as your neighbors do not violate anyone else's rights they are free to comport themselves as they see fit.

The question in this case becomes one of whether the squirrel had any rights. As we learn more about life on this planet we extend more and more consideration to other species and extend them some measure of rights. It is illegal to be cruel to some animals (and squirrels may be included in your local laws).

I share your reverence of life. I only kill what preys upon me. Anything else I catch and release and send it on its way. I am personally repulsed at the idea of killing anything with any self awareness. But I also recognize that others may not share my views.

[Arkansas Granny]

33. There's nothing wrong with you. A guy I know put out

some of those glue traps once. This is a man who hunts occasionally, but after finding a mouse in the trap and realizing just how they work by just imprisoning the mouse and not killing it quickly, he threw the unused traps away and vowed to never use another. I prefer to let my cat take care of any mice that try to invade our space. I'm not sure that it's any kinder, but it is a natural solution.

[sinkingfeeling]

42. I quickly threw my glue traps away. I now have a 'Tom Cat' live trap.

I've got and released at least 3 dozen mice over the last 5 years. (Don't tell, but I released them at the university, near the tennis courts.)

[Breeze54]

34. Empathy is a good thing, despite

the teachings of the GOP, Fartwell and his ilk.

We need more like you! :hug:

:kick: & Recommended!

[SmokingJacket]

35. You know that cruelty to animals is a sign of psychopathology.

So no, there is nothing wrong with you.

BTW, the little Have-a-Heart traps work really well for mice. We caught five a few weeks ago, one at a time, taking each little mouse family member out to the woods, where, hopefully, they reunited. (And did not plot a new scheme for getting back into our house...)

[raccoon]

36. Nothing wrong with you. nt

[Matsubara]

37. To my knowledge empathy is not a birth defect, so I think you're fine.

But it is sad that generations of young men have had theirs beaten, ridiculed or otherwise emptied out of them by our sick society.

When I was in 5th grade, a bunch of the boys in my school knocked a robin's nest with a bunch of babies down from a light fixture outside the school with a rock, and then they stomped on the baby birds with glee and laughter. Even at that age I was appalled and deeply saddened by it. It's like "us" and "them" are descended from entirely different primates. I feel nauseous just thinking about this stuff.


Oh, and I am not an "animal rights nut". I eat meat and kill bugs when they come in my house. But killing things for fun, especially sweet little helpless and harmless creatures? I can't fathom it.

[slowry]

38. Yes, there is something wrong with you, imo.

That you're questioning yourself at all on this :spank:. That guy is a fucking asshole, plain and simple.

[Rainbowreflect]

39. My husband always made fun of my "mouse trap".

I would leave some crumbs is a cracker or chip bag. The mouse would crawl in & the warp would make a crinkling noise. I would then release the mouse. I think it was probably the same mice over & over again. They knew they would get free food.

[YOY]

69. Smart little suckers aren't they?

I did somewhat complex trap with a tube from a paper towel roll placed on the edge of a table and a small amount of food at the end over the edge. The wouse would enter the roll and fall off the table when he upset the balance in moving towards the food and fall into an empty plastic bucket. I'd release him in a nearby feild.

I swear I caught the same dang mouse ten times. I shoulda figured out a way to mark him to test that hypothesis!

[sheerjoy]

40. Maybe you have a human heart?

I BB'gunned a sparrow at age 8. I cried. I am 65 and have never killed anything else that I know of....

[butterfly77]

41. I don't agree with the your neighbor but..

I have no guilt when it comes to killing or destroying a mouse,rat or any rodent that is in my vicinity. I would gladly kill a mouse or rat and I would feel relief...

[HCE SuiGeneris]

43. You are in tune with your emotions, and not a sadist...

nothing wrong there. I would feel exactly as you felt. Congrats for being compassionate. :toast:

[donco6]

44. Not at all.

Even hunters and fishermen, IMO, should treat the death of an animal with some dignity. I mean, really, it's not like it has a chance once it's in your sights or on your hook. What's to celebrate?

[MazeRat7]

53. Nothing.. -nt.

[tnlefty]

54. Absolutely nothing! I've been very angry with squirrels as they

enjoy chewing on the facer boards of my house, but I don't kill them and don't encourage my kids to kill them for fun. Peanut butter with EXTREMELY hot pepper juice mixed in seems to discourage them. If that doesn't do it I do have an air pistol that I discharge straight up into the air to frighten them.

I have cats to keep the mice away. We made the mistake of getting a couple of glue traps and I was absolutely horrified when I saw what they do and we got rid of them. I see so many people who have no regard for animals or humans (torture is okay, rendition is okay, killing people in another country is okay). I frequently find myself shaking my head and wondering what the hell is going on with us humans.

[Gormy Cuss]

79. Straight cayenne pepper annoys them even more.

Try mixing that in the PB next time. I hate to do it but squirrels have squirrel brains and don't seem to take the hint otherwise.

I've never understood killing animals just for fun nor inflicting lingering pain and fear on an animal before killing it. I hope that I never do understand that mentality.

[The Inquisitive]

55. weirdo

I'm the same way. I'm live and let live with pretty much all animals. You don't bother me I don't bother you. A handful of bugs enjoy violating this nonverbal agreement who I will not hesitate to punish.

I squashed a crab with a hammer when I was 7, I felt really bad afterwards when it didn't make me feel any happier and that the crab was just going along doing its thing and then *SPLAT* hammer time!

[nam78_two]

56. Yes there is something wrong with you

I hope what is "wrong" with you spreads to more people :toast:.

We need more people like you.

[Jed Dilligan]

57. If your neighbors have a precarious food supply

that the squirrel threatens, I have to say I condone their actions.

But that's not likely. What's more likely is that this guy is wittingly or unwittingly raising his boys to be sadists and sociopaths.

[Occulus]

58. You have some barbaric neighbors. n/t

[Duppers]

59. not at all. Come to my house for tea

and a big hug. I'd be proud to call you friend.

:hug:

[Jamastiene]

60. Nothing.

You are right to be concerned about how that whole scenario went down. From your description, it sounds like that man is training those kids to grow up to become serial killers. That IS how serial killers start out. Once they lose any sort of feelings for animals, they move on to people. That mentality is not your ordinary "hunting for food" mentality. Unless they needed that animal for food, there was no reason to repeatedly shoot it and gleefully brag about it. That's a sign of a cold hearted family there, IMNSHO.

From what I see in your OP, there is NOTHING wrong with you.

I do have one question about the toad though. What kind of toad is that that it can kill dogs? I'm curious. I like to learn about animals I normally never see. Most toads in North Carolina might taste bad (I didn't taste one. One of my cats did and then frothed at the mouth because of the taste), but they don't kill animals. I'm curious about that toad. I might want to steer clear of those in case I ever visit the area. :scared:

[Tesha]

63. You're in the wrong country, maybe at the wrong time, maybe on the wrong planet.

I know *EXACTLY* how you feel; I don't understand 1/4 of the
stuff that goes on around me that is taken absolutely for
granite, err, granted.

The only thing I can conclude is that you, like me, are in the
wrong country, maybe at the wrong time, and maybe on the wrong
planet. Maybe we belong in the Star Trek future, where all of
this (sexism, racism, capitalism, etc.) has been resolved, at
least among the Federation. Or maybe we belong in the 12th
century, where you could at least escape into a monastery
or a nunnery and be Brother Cadfael, tending our garden
after retiring from a life of war and strife in the
outside world.

But I can't understand how humans can routinely be such
complete and total assholes about so many things and
then be *PROUD* of it.

Sometimes I think that the best we can hope for is a
future like Stephen King's The Stand, where most
of humanity is done to death by a virus of our own making
and the few remaining humans can start over again.

Tesha

[michaz]

64. Not a thing wrong with you, but your neighbor is demented!

[LWolf]

65. Nothing is wrong with you.

You have a true respect for life that I wish everyone did.

It takes some humility, to see non-human life as worthy.
It takes empathy, which is scarce in our current culture, to care about the pain or fear of another creature.

Those are qualities which, exhibited by more of the planet's population of humans, would make the world a better place, and do so much more effectively than any politician or political system on earth.

[Vinca]

66. It's not you who has the problem, it's your neighbor.

He teaches his sons cruelty toward innocent life . . . and will feign surprise when Junior turns up at the high school with a Glock.

[phoreten]

67. I shot my first rabbit with my BB gun when I was 11. We ate it.

It was wonderfull. Squirrel is very excellent eating also. Maybe this family decided they wanted a nice meal of wild game and it sounds like they were in an area that they were unable to use a .22 rifle or something of the like so a BB gun would be the only weapon they could use.

Nothing wrong with training kids to be hunters. We are all hunters by nature except some feel a need to deny that to themselves.

[bunkerbuster1]

73. Do you really believe that sending two kids with air rifles out in the backyard

is some part of a rigorous huntsman-training curriculum?

I call bullshit. I have no problem, either, in the kind of small game hunting you describe. But sitting your ass on the deck and only getting up to pump your fist when a kid needs a fifth shot to finish off a freekin' squirrel?

That's pretty messed up. I don't know that I'd have the same visceral reaction as the OP to it, but I wouldn't be very happy to witness it, either.

[phoreten]

78. hmmm.

"I don't know that I'd have the same visceral reaction as the OP to it, but I wouldn't be very happy to witness it, either."

Then don't look.

I guess you don't eat meat in any form?

[uppityperson]

97. there is a difference between killing an animal for food and cheering on torturing it

[bunkerbuster1]

99. Not only do I eat meat, I've hunted.

Been awhile, but I've shot/eaten stuff that once was alive.

I'm talking about all the whoopin' and hollerin' over a dead squirrel. The kids, I can understand. The dad? um...

[Lost4words]

96. If they shoot a squirrel I would guess my cat would be next.

aint killin fun kids!?

[YOY]

68. Nothings wrong with you. Nothing at all.

Something is wrong with anyone who kills with joy or zeal.

One might go as far to say the same for those who kill for sport...but we humans have upset the balance of nature at times so perhaps hunting to lower deer populations simply to maintain that balance is neccesary sad to say. It's when you sometimes see the redneck mentality of killing for pleasure that sickens me...but I have know hunters who don't don that Ted Nugent smiling-his-ass-off-as-he-shoots-away mentality. I find it difficult to condemn them. Canned hunts on the other hand...sick beyond measure.

I've slaughtered a few pigs in my time. Raised to be food in my inlaws village in Eastern Europe & that's what they are purchased for.

I did it with no zeal or great joy. It's rather messy business.

They were tasty too.

[nuxvomica]

70. I hate those glue traps

Many years ago I saw one at a True Value hardware store near a sign said they were being discontinued. I asked a floor salesman why they were being discontinued and he told me headquarters was bowing to pressure from "those human rights groups." I asked if the one on the shelf was the last one and he checked out back but could find no others. "Ok", I said, "I'll buy this one and dispose of it so no one else can buy it." He grimaced and said "That's an awful waste." I explained how small rodents and sometimes birds can be caught in these traps and die a horrible, prolonged death but he looked at me like I was from Mars.

[OwnedByFerrets]

71. Your post

made tears fill my eyes. There is NOTHING wrong with you my friend. Its the ones filled with hatred and anger who are wrong. The ones who are wrong are the ones who believe that "because I can kill something, gives me the right to kill something." I too have been quilty for killing things when young, and I have asked forgiveness so very many times.
You are not alone, my friend. Not even a little bit.

[lonestarnot]

74. Not a gd thing wrong with you!

:hug:

[Festivito]

75. There's something wrong with you and I will not tell you what it is.

Because I don't know, except that we're all caught in the same country where we have democratic governmental goal-of-unity idealism with un-unifying but necessary militarism. Redundantly: we need both.

As we need both in our current political fight, we need to unify, and, we need to bare our teeth and fight the Republican/Conservative/INO/Military-industrial/on-and-on mess we have inside our current government.

I eat meat. It dies. I eat it. My cats kill for fun. They bring birds into the house to both enjoy and hone their skills. Occasionally the bird is released by me, occasionally I dispose of the remnants.

I hope your neighbors ate that squirrel. That should be part of the lesson. I think I'd ask if they know how to cook and eat it. This being a lesson of community and knowing that ideas differ between people and respecting that.

My dad would catch flies in the house and walk them out to the front door to release them. I swat.

Yesterday, two 12 year-old boys in my Detroit neighborhood stopped bicycling to look at a dead squirrel in the middle of the street. One dragged it by the tail to the curb, I assume to clean the street or save the dead carcass further indignity of being run over more. What young men, taking responsibility.

My real hope for the future is that we have enough diversity to have those who bare their teeth well, and those who unify our community well, and all of us with the responsibility to step up to fight well for our country.

Because if we are not willing to fight now, there will be something wrong with our future.

[architect359]

76. In my opinion...

why would you need to come here and ask that question? SOUNDS like you already have a good sense of what your core beliefs / ethics are already.

(edit for spelling)

[Dark]

77. I don't have a problem with killing rodents when they're inside my house. Or insects.

But that was sadistic.

[Zywiec]

80. Nothing wrong with you

I'm not sure what life lesson that neighbor was teaching his children. Maybe not to be sensitive to animals? I would be horrified if I knew one of my kids was killing squirrels. I just don't get the point.

[Beelzebud]

81. Nothing. You are a compassionate human being. Keep on keeping on.

[shenmue]

82. Killing to eat and killing to torture are two completely different things.

You don't have anything to be ashamed of. The people messing with the squirrel do.

[rug]

83. You've got to fight the squirrels outside so you don't have to fight them inside.

[EnviroBat]

87. OMG! STOP IT!

:rofl:

[Sapere aude]

84. Nothing is wrong with you in this case.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

And God said, take thy brain and create weapons and shoot the shit out of anything you want.

[EnviroBat]

85. There's not a damn thing wrong with you.

When I was a kid the thought of killing anything horrified me. My stepfather tried to make me a "tough guy" by pushing my to run over a garter snake with the lawn mower. Part of me has never forgiven myself for that, or the abuse that he put our dog through. There was nothing I could do to defend her. I eat steaks and other meat all the time, but I'm not the one who killed the animals, why should they go to waste? I just have never been able to bring myself to kill living things, and God forbid I hit something crossing the road, I'm ruined for about a week afterward. I've never been able to figure out the asshole mentality of finding humor in killing something like your neighbor obviously does. I tend not to hang around people like that either. So no, there's not a damn thing wrong with you, and if there's a heaven, I'm sure there will be a place in it for people like us...

[DrunkenMaster]

86. not a damn thing is wrong with you

Killing for fun is pathological, period. You are just fine.

[AikidoSoul]

89. You're fine. I don't understand people who kill just to kill.

Did they even eat the squirrels? If so, you might tell them that in many parts of the country squirrels are known as "tree rats". On second thought don't say a word... that might encourage them to shoot more of them.

We know of a hunter that killed animals for years until one day when he shot a squirrel he walked up to it and saw it trying to wipe the blood out of his eyes so he could see.

That did it. That image stayed with him and he could never kill another animal.

[jollyreaper2112]

90. I keep it simple

The wiccan reed has it about right: "And it harm none, do what thou wilt." A variation on that my high school history teacher liked was "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."

There's nothing wrong with responsible target shooting, so long as the gun owner is responsible and exercising proper firearm safety. Shooting animals isn't target shooting, it's killing. I have no problem with hunting if the end result is to put food on the table. If the point of the hunt is simple bloodsport, I have a problem with it. We all take from the environment and give back to it. We eat, we shit, we die and rot. If we take no more than we give back, we preserve the balance. The problem comes when we take more than we give back.

By the laws of our own society, there are certain things that may not be right but are also not illegal. Your neighbor has the right to hunt animals in season, take trophies and properly dispose of the carcass, wasting every bite of meat. He has the right to go into a restaurant, order a full meal, pick at it and throw most of it away. He also has the right to drive a ridiculous SUV. I would argue that just because someone is able to pay to do something doesn't mean that the cost to society is accurately captured; beachfront condos lower the quality of life and enjoyment of nature for those who were already living along the beach. There's no law against it yet but that just gives society a goal to work towards. But until a law is successfully passed, such wasteful behaviors have to be tolerated.

As for the situation in particular here, I think this goes beyond mere dislike for cro-magnon behavior. This is active animal cruelty. You can't get the police to step in on account of this being bad parenting (though in my opinion it is) but you should be able to get their attention for violating a cruelty law.

[Blue Diadem]

91. Nothing wrong with you at all. I can't help but wonder what thrill they get

from killing something simply because they can.

[Cleita]

92. I yelled at some of the neighborhood kids a few years ago

for trying to kill birds with slingshots. Their father, a big bully of a redneck, came over and told me to mind my own business. You might have the same results but I would try to talk to those adults anyway. If they are still hostile, get some animal rights organizations involved like PETA, ADLF(Animal Defense League Fund), the Humane Society or the Sierra Club, who sometimes will come to the aid of wild life.

The ADLF are lawyers who advocate for animal rights especially acts of cruelty towards them. As lawyers they might be able to advise you as to what laws might come into play in your area.

[benEzra]

93. No, nothing's wrong with you...

I have no problem with others hunting (after all, I am a carnivore myself), nor do I have a problem with squirrel hunting. I do have a problem with people not hunting humanely.

I am not a hunter myself (most gun owners aren't). I'm not opposed to it, and I may try it someday, but if I do, I will do my best to ensure the animal doesn't suffer.

I'm trying to teach my kids to respect and take care of wildlife; we took an injured dove to our local WildARC last week, me and the kids. Doesn't mean I'll never teach them to hunt, either (undecided), but if I do, I'll teach them to do so ethically.

I had to kill a few mice in my house a while back (I tried relocating them and they came back); hated to do it, but they were chewing into our food and pooping in it, so I really didn't have a choice.

BTW, the "humane" traps aren't, at least if you don't check them daily. I once had a mouse die of thirst in a "humane" trap while we were away; a conventional trap would have been a lot more humane in that situation, I think.

[Lost4words]

95. Not at all, I would welcome you as a friend. I dont care for killers.

8643

[Carni]

98. My husband told our cat *DROP IT* and he did lol

Our cat caught a mouse this winter (in the house)

He hadn't harmed it (yet) but was hauling the thing around in his mouth...

My husband yelled "DROP IT NOW!" at him and I swear to God -- the cat dropped the mouse right into a towel my husband was holding.

He took the mouse outside in the towel and sent him on his way LOL

[babydollhead]

100. kick for compassion

[roguevalley]

101. nothing. if you have a heart, you feel more when you get older.

My sweet dad could never hunt or fish after a certain age. That man has no heart and he's making his sons into himself. You have a heart and a soul. Be glad you can feel bad. Consider the desolation of a life without empathy.

[waiting for hope]

102. There is nothing wrong with you and

everything wrong about your neighbor - he probably complains about crime rates and how the cities are over flowing with homeless and how the jails are overcrowded; too dumb to realize that he's contributing to the problem by raising his boys to be irresponsible, hateful, disrespectful and above all, cruel.

:hug: You have a big, compassionate heart - never lose sight of that. BTW, is your neighbor a Republican?

[cd1]

103. Congressional Votes for Arkansas' 3rd Congressional District:

May 14, 2007

In this MegaVote for Arkansas' 3rd Congressional District:

Recent Congressional Votes -
* Senate: Prescription Drug User Fee Amendments
* House: Budget Resolution, FY2008
* House: Student Loan Sunshine Act
* House: Homeland Security Authorization Act
* House: Re-deployment from Iraq Act
* House: Emergency Supplemental Appropriations
* House: Agricultural Disaster Assistance Appropriations Act
* House: Intelligence Authorization Act

Upcoming Congressional Bills -
* Senate: Water Resources Development Act
* House: National Defense Authorization Act, FY2008
* House: Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2007
Recent Senate Votes
Prescription Drug User Fee Amendments - Vote Passed (93-1, 6
Not Voting)

The Senate passed this bill that would renew a Food and Drug
Administration program requiring pharmaceutical companies to
contribute to the costs of testing new medicines.

Sen. Blanche Lincoln voted YES......send e-mail or see bio
Sen. Mark Pryor voted YES......send e-mail or see bio

Recent House Votes
Budget Resolution, FY2008 - Vote Passed (212-207, 13 Not
Voting)

The House passed a $2.9 trillion budget plan for the upcoming
fiscal year.

Rep. John Boozman voted NO......send e-mail or see bio

Student Loan Sunshine Act - Vote Passed (414-3, 15 Not Voting)

The House passed this bill aimed at introducing transparency
into dealings between private student loan lenders and
colleges.

Rep. John Boozman voted YES......send e-mail or see bio

Homeland Security Authorization Act - Vote Passed (296-126, 10
Not Voting)

The House passed this bill authorizing $39.8 billion in
Department of Homeland Security spending for the 2008 fiscal
year.

Rep. John Boozman voted NO......send e-mail or see bio

Re-deployment from Iraq Act - Vote Failed (171-255, 7 Not
Voting)

The House rejected this bill that would have required all U.S.
troops to withdraw from Iraq within six months.

Rep. John Boozman voted NO......send e-mail or see bio

Emergency Supplemental Appropriations - Vote Passed (221-205,
7 Not Voting)

The House approved this bill that would fund military
operations in Iraq and Afghanistan in two installments.

Rep. John Boozman voted NO......send e-mail or see bio

Agricultural Disaster Assistance Appropriations Act - Vote
Passed (302-120, 10 Not Voting)

This House bill would provide $3.5 billion to farmers who lost
crops or livestock due to weather-related events during fiscal
years 2005 through 2007.

Rep. John Boozman voted YES......send e-mail or see bio

Intelligence Authorization Act - Vote Passed (225-197, 10 Not
Voting)

This bill authorizes spending for 16 U.S. intelligence
gathering agencies for the upcoming fiscal year.

Rep. John Boozman voted NO......send e-mail or see bio

Upcoming Votes
Water Resources Development Act - H.R.1495

The Senate is set to take up this $12 billion bill authorizing
the Army Corps of Engineers to carry out a variety of
waterways, water supply, and environmental restoration
projects.


National Defense Authorization Act, FY2008 - H.R.1585

This House bill would set defense spending priorities for the
upcoming fiscal year.


Federal Housing Finance Reform Act of 2007 - H.R.1427

This bill would restructure the federal government's housing
finance agencies.