Country changing events

[nadinbrzezinski]

Well if you are of a certain generation you DO remember where you were when JFK was shot. (I wasn't even conceived, so there)

If you are of a certain generation you also remember where you were when RFK was shot... (Too young and not even in the country... RFK who? To me 1968 is not about MLK or RFK, but the 1968 Student Revolt in Mexico City... )

You also remember where you were when the Challenger went off... (School cafeteria at San Diego State, outside, watching some birds eat some rice)... granted that was the day the innocence over space travel sort of really died.

And for that matter you also remember where you were on 9.11... which also changed the country for the far worst. (In bed in military housing when my sis called all hysterical... you see Honolulu is just a few hours behind the rest of the world)

Yet, as much as I ask many people do not remember where they were on December 12, 2000 (At my in-laws in Maui, screaming at CNN). That was the day that if we are to be charitable Bush won by a smidgen, if we are to be truthful, the day an election was stolen. That changed the country in ways that we have not recovered and I doubt will recover. We have taken a dark turn, and until we face those ghosts, we will be stuck in some really bad patterns. I have no idea how to make the country face those ghosts, but now I'm increasingly convinced that at the very least we need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, and until that happens... we will continue to be on a certain rut.

Ah some of the random thoughts that run though my mind from time to time when I get more ahem... philosophical.

[Atticus]

1. I've lived through everything you mentioned and, to boot, collected signatures to urge the

impeachment of Richard Nixon. I was certain that I'd helped rid our country of the worst president our nation would ever have to endure. What did I know?

I agree wholeheartedly that the numerous crimes of the Bush administration must be addressed in some official and public manner if our nation is ever to regain its sense of itself as a "nation of laws, not men". Until then, that high-sounding language will continue to elicit smirks and rolling eyes, if not outright laughter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. These are the high points

Reagan's shooting and the whole Iran Contra (much bigger by the way, but a hell of a precedent setter, as well as Watergate) should be mentioned too.

Reagan... I was at home... Iran Contra, one of my profs correctly predicted that nobody would impeach a second president... or they'd face a lot of pain. Those words are with me to this day. He was a retired company man. I always wondered if they were ready to defend I am not a crook, but were late to the party.

I should also have included Columbine. The effect of Columbine has been endemic with the culture of fear.

What is the Chinese Curse? We live it.

[tavalon]

4. May you live in interesting times.................

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Yep, and we are

:-)

[Angry Dragon]

3. It is said that until you take care of the garbage that one carries

they will make the same mistakes. Until one understands and deals with the garbage they can not move forward.
This country can not move forward until the bush years are dealt with and that includes charging and bringing to trial
any and all who used torture as a means to make this country safe in their minds.
How can this country expect other countries to respect us if we turn around and break laws just because they are inconvenient??

We tell other counties to follow our example and cry and whine when they do despicable things that we have done.
If this country wants others to follow then we need to set an example and not one of the lowest common denominator.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Problem is that we are a "forwards looking people."

what I'd rather classify as in avoidance mode. The we will move forwards to me shows that the power elite knows that if they deal with it way too many heads will roll... and not just from one party either. Everybody is dirty.

[Angry Dragon]

7. I really do not care who is dirty

It matters to me not which person is dirty, they do not belong in any kind of power position.
If we start worrying about that then you will have this country stuck in the rut you talked about.

When I hear people talk about looking forward because they do not want to look at the mistakes that are behind them, then they just make the same mistakes and they just get larger. It reminds me of the battered woman syndrome. A woman that gets out of one bad relationship will just fall into the same relationship the next time because that is what she knows. Until she understands why she is drawn to this type of relationship then she will never break the cycle.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. We both get that

but at the political elite level they are stuck in exactly that rut. By extension so are we.

As I told an elected official the only valuable secret is the one you try to keep. And there is a lot of that and the obvious consequences (we know your bones and the whole damn series of skeletons buddy)

[Angry Dragon]

9. Then to answer your first OP

to me there really are only two ways to go then

First one is the downward spiral that we are now on

Or a revolution of some kind

Because according to you the elite will not wake up nor give up their power willingly

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Something will give sooner or later

we have had peaceful revolutions every so often. That is my hope. But we will have to deal with it. It is just how it will happen. And IMO the longer it takes, the more painful and the higher the potential for violence.

There is a populist undercurrent now, a strong one.

[femmocrat]

11. I remember each of them like it was yesterday.

But I am getting weary of witnessing these tragic events. I hoped that Obama's election was a positive country-changing event. I am still hopeful that we will get the change--and the country-- we voted for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. So am I, quite honestly

we are getting weary and late in the hour.