A Canadian response to Gibbs' anti-Canadian health care rant

[Bragi]

The American right thinks the Canadian health care system is some sort of socialist plot. Unfortunately, the Obama administration isn't trying to dispel that idea.

<http://www.themarknews.com/articles/2040-why-do-americans-hate-canadian-health-care>

(The writer is associated with Canada's left-of-centre New Democratic Party)

[villager]

1. Already made some U.S. insurance company fans hit the unrec button!

Which means: Good work!

[Edweird]

2. Hey, I know what a good deal it is. I'm working on emigrating there.

[dkf]

4. If only it wasnt so friggen cold.

[Edweird]

6. The cold is my mortal enemy and I work outside. British Columbia

is the only area that I could even reasonably survive in. Plus I want to be near Whistler. Failing that, I'm going to Australia. The money is actually way better for my trade there.

[dkf]

8. Hmm Australia is much more feasible to me.

[Edweird]

14. Me too, but I am willing to sacrifice to be able to enjoy my greatest passion.

I'm a hardcore downhill/freeride mountain biker and Whistler and the mountains on the north side of Vancouver (North Shore) are my mecca. I'll suffer the cold and lower pay to be able to get my endorphins every weekend. The fact that it's the same continent is also a bonus. I do intend to return to Florida eventually.

[Nay]

74. Hey, in the winter, just go on over to Vancouver Island. Very

moderate winters, and you can still bike in Strathcona!

[Bragi]

9. We have a solution: global warming

In just a few decades, with the continued support of leaders world-wide who can be relied on to nothing about CO2 emissions, I'm confident our climate will be pretty damn Carolinian.

[Honeycombe8]

67. Only if you're young. Canada quit taking older Americans who want free insurance...

but haven't paid the high taxes to contribute to the health care program for years.

[Edweird]

71. The cutoff is 45 and I'll be 40 when I apply.

[txlibdem]

92. I thought you could bypass that if you had

at least $50k in assets. Is that no longer true? I'm 49...

[txlibdem]

87. Take me with you, please.

:-)

[steve2470]

3. k&r nt

[ipaint]

5. Truth hurts. Especially when compared to what passes as "groundbreaking reform" here in the states.

"A couple of quick points of comparison might be helpful here. Canadian health care costs about $180 billion per year, give or take a few billion. That’s about as much as the U.S. spent last year procuring 10 new major weapons, including a few new jets, a nuclear submarine, and something called a “Space Based Infrared System”. Meanwhile, the American government spends 23 per cent more than the Canadian government per capita on health care, even though 46 million U.S. citizens have no coverage at all. No one gets a bill for dying in Canada.

Oh, and we live longer."

http://www.themarknews.com/articles/2040-why-do-americans-hate-canadian-health-care

[LWolf]

7. "No one gets a bill for dying in Canada."

More:

But instead of providing an accountable answer to the unions, environmentalists, and students who are upset, Gibbs lashed out at what he called the “professional left” and suggested, “They will be satisfied when we have Canadian health care and we've eliminated the Pentagon. That's not reality.”

You read that right.

The spokesperson for the most powerful man in the world suggested that creating a world-class, freely accessible medical system is just like dismantling a multi-billion dollar defense apparatus.

A couple of quick points of comparison might be helpful here. Canadian health care costs about $180 billion per year, give or take a few billion. That’s about as much as the U.S. spent last year procuring 10 new major weapons, including a few new jets, a nuclear submarine, and something called a “Space Based Infrared System”. Meanwhile, the American government spends 23 per cent more than the Canadian government per capita on health care, even though 46 million U.S. citizens have no coverage at all. No one gets a bill for dying in Canada.

Oh, and we live longer.

If they simply stopped accidentally funding America’s real enemies in Afghanistan, they would have more than enough money for a deluxe model Canadian-style health care system.

[mzmolly]

10. Gibbs said some wouldn't be satisfied without Canadian health care, he didn't say

Canadian health care was inferior. Further, it's not up to Obama to dispel myths about the health care system in Canada.

[Cleita]

13. He didn't say it was inferior because he couldn't.

All the astroturf regarding Canadian health care has been dispelled and disproven during the health care debate. All they, who oppose it, can say today is that we aren't going to get it. Period. They have no propaganda left.

[mzmolly]

18. There was nothing anti-canadian about what Gibbs

said. That's my point.

[Bluebear]

22. Oh noooo not at all. What with the right wing says Canadians come here for health care.

Because they wait 6 months for treatment etc.

[mzmolly]

23. Unless Gibbs said Canadian's come to the US for health care

your point, and that of OP is moot.

[Bluebear]

24. He knew exactly what he was saying, and it left its mark, no matter what you declare moot.

Adieu.

[Whisp]

35. no no, YOU know exactly what he was saying.

:eyes:

[Skittles]

72. yes, WE DO KNOW

it's fucking disgusting that others cannot figure it out

[mzmolly]

36. I agree. He said we need a "uniquely American" solution

which was actually a uniquely Danish solution, but I'll never tell. ;)

[daleanime]

61. "Uniquely American solution"?

Pay a lot more for less service? That's fairly 'unique'.:eyes:

[mmonk]

65. So unique because nobody else wants it.

[mzmolly]

91. Not related to

my point at all, but thanks for the response. :hi:

[liberation]

63. I am beginning to think it is the DLC contingent the ones who need to be thoroughly drug tested

You guys must be getting the "spins" by now. LOL

[Nay]

75. Yes, it was anti-Canadian health care, because in the same sentence

he equated it with eliminating the Pentagon, an obviously out-there action. And in the whole sentence he intimated that both things were wacky woo-woo from the ditzy lefties.

[dflprincess]

15. Nor is it up the administration to reenforce myths about the health care system in Canada

or any other country where the citizens can actually access care. But that's exactly what the administration did with all its efforts to pretend that shoring up the for profit insurers by mandating the purchase of the same old products was "reform".

If Obama was honest about the difference between Canadian and American health care he'd admit that in Canada the system puts care first and in the states profit is all that matters.

[mzmolly]

17. Do you have a quote in which the administration reinforced

such myths?

[Cleita]

27. I would say that Gibb's quote speaks to that.

Anybody who doesn't comprehend it is plainly blind to the obvious.

[mzmolly]

32. If I said I like "uniquely American food" I am not slamming

other countries.

[Cleita]

38. Keep those straw men coming.

Nothing to do with the conversation.

[mzmolly]

41. It's not a straw man

to point out that Gibbs didn't slam Canadian health care Cleita.

[Ignis]

46. And that's a great analogy for what Gibbs said...how?

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

48. Because my analogy was no more anti-Canadian than

Gibbs remarks about a uniquely American health care system.

[Cherchez la Femme]

53. You just don't quit the spin, do you?

:rofl:

[mzmolly]

59. I'm not the one spinning.

:hi:

[Cherchez la Femme]

62. No?

OK, what is this he 'didn't say Canadian Health Care' was "inferior"?

What Lefty asked for "Canadian Health Care"? The phrases I distinctly heard were: "Public Option", "Single Payer" or "Medicaid (for all)".
Of the latter: Isn't that a 'uniquely American solution"?

I am addressing his exact words, not putting words into his mouth...
so darling, if that's not Spin --with a capital S-- I don't know WHAT is! :rofl:


edit: clarity

[mzmolly]

89. No clarity

in your statement in spite of the edit, sorry. The fact remains, saying something is 'uniquely american' is not anti-Canadian.

[flyarm]

70. wash rinse spin, wash rinse spin..wash rinse spin..eom

[mzmolly]

90. No need for spin.

Until I see a quote that actually IS anti-Canadian, I stand by my comments.

[Jax]

85. Yes you are

non stop as usual.

:hi:

[dflprincess]

19. We were told we needed an "uniquely American solution"

implying of course that for some reason those plans other countries have just won't work for the US because we need something special.

It would have been nice if he had dispelled a few myths about the for profit parasite system we have here. Instead he decided that the "uniquely American solution" we need is just more of the same where we will continue paying more and more while we get less and less.

[mzmolly]

20. You failed to deliver on the quote.

I don't take the "uniquely American solution" as a slam on other nations. I'm sorry if you did.

[Cleita]

26. A uniquely American solution means that the sick don't

get the access to health care that they need while the parasites keep feeding on the health care dollars that should go to the sick.

[mzmolly]

34. So he was slamming the US

system now?

[Cleita]

37. He did unintentionally. He let the cat out of the bag that

a decent health care system would not be ours as long as the for profit health care system was in place. Obama also said the same that it was one-sixth of our economy and we had to preserve it. :wow: Of course that one-sixth of the economy is pretty much centered on Wall Street and has nothing to do with us other than to take our health insurance money to deliver it to them.

[mzmolly]

40. The Netherlands rates higher than Canada according to the WHO

ranking system. I'm willing to give our 'like' system a shot.

Peace

[Cleita]

43. I read that the Netherlands is having concerns about

paying for the system as the hens are coming home to roost as to what the real cost of the system is going to be.

[mzmolly]

44. Interesting. Do you have a link?

:shrug:

[Cleita]

45. It's in the archives in the PNHP website. I believe the original

article was in the NY Times. I read it a few months back so I don't have the link readily available and frankly you aren't going to read it anyway so I don't feel like doing the work for you. However, if you are interested use their search function for Netherlands health care.

[mzmolly]

47. I didn't find your article but I found this here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3532554&mesg_id=3532554

If you provide a link I actually WILL read it.

[txlibdem]

88. +1000

Parasites. No better word for it.

[Cherchez la Femme]

50. Highly disingenuous

He didn't say 'some wouldn't be satisfied without' Public Option,
or Single Payer
he specifically used 'Canadian Health Care' as a message to the Righties and Independents

Seriously, the spin around this is incredible. He said exactly what he said: Word-for-word.

[Enthusiast]

11. K&R

There are interests at work with the aim of dismantling the Canadian system. Canadian citizens would be well advised to guard against these attempts to undermine their system. After reading the comments I wonder if right wing posters haven't co-opted the discussion as they did with Digg.

American's working on behalf of the health care status quo in the states don't like the stark contrast with the Canadian system. It is all about preserving a profit system and has zero to do with health care.

[arikara]

51. Not to worry

we know they are after our health care, have been since Nafta. They keep trying to undermine it all the time. However as apathetic as we generally are, if they touch the health care they will have a revolt on their hands.

[arikara]

52. Not to worry

we know they are after our health care, have been since Nafta. They keep trying to undermine it all the time. However as apathetic as we generally are, if they touch the health care they will have a revolt on their hands.

[Cleita]

12. I find this whole ordeal on the part of those people

who are supposed to be representing us disgusting. We need to start demanding Canadian style health care regardless of how cavalierly our politicians try to dismiss what 70% of Americans want.

[Cherchez la Femme]

54. But... but... but... I thought it was only a "Few" on the "Professional Left"

who wanted that dreadful 'Canadian style Health Care'

(actually Medicare, but why waste a perfectly good attack from they WH's talky guy?)

[Eyerish]

16. K&R

[Whisp]

21. it wasn't an anti Canadian health care system rant.

can't people fucking read any more?

he meant that some were expecting a full health system like Canada has, in a few short months. He wasn't dissing Canada, he was objecting to the falsies out there about single payer.

[mzmolly]

25. Hear hear!

Good grief, what happened to the notion of critical thinking on the left!?

[Cleita]

29. Good grief!

If someone disagrees with you, they can't think critically? Nice way to change the subject.

[mzmolly]

31. It's not a matter of disagreement in this case. It's a matter of fact.

Gibbs did not criticize the Canadian health care system.

[Cleita]

39. No, he criticized us for wanting it.

So wouldn't that be a back door criticism of their system? It would more or less insinuate that ours is superior to theirs, don't you think? He also conflated it with the Pentagon and we know we have the biggest bad ass military in the world.

[mzmolly]

42. He didn't criticize anyone for wanting it. He said that some have set the

bar the Canadian level and nothing less will please them. He mentioned the Pentagon as a separate issue.

[CocaNova]

57. +1 n/t

[mmonk]

66. Yep. We were the target for dare wanting a "Canadian" system

when we wanted a single payer option. Then we were willing to go along with the compromise "public option" we got excited about that they ended up were not serious about. Their politics is rather cruel and in your face.

[Mimosa]

73. I think Gibbs and Emanueal laugh at us suckers who put Obama in office

Gibbs seems supercilious and mean-spirited to me.

[mmonk]

86. They might.

They sure don't hide their contempt.

[Cherchez la Femme]

56. Conversely

when someone agrees it's all 'Hear, hear'; you are RIGHT sir! (in more ways than one)

Yay!

:eyes:

[Cleita]

28. What he was saying that we can't expect to get a good

health care system like Canada's because we are idiots who don't know what's possible and what isn't. Only he and his cronies know what's possible. Unfortunately, the White House and that includes Gibbs, are in a position of power that could make a Canadian system viable for us just by modernizing Medicare and extending it to everyone. It can be done, but they won't do it because their buddies on Wall Street wouldn't like it. I'm tired of corruption in government at the expense of the people. At least back forty years ago the politicians knew to throw a few bones to us proles before they robbed the Treasury for their enrichment. Now they won't even do that.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Falsies about single payer? Do ya know what a falsie is?

I can read. Can you tell me about the falsies involved in single payer?

[Cherchez la Femme]

58. Oooh! Oooh! I can tell you!

Free breast implants for all -- men *and* women, not just some stuffing! :rofl:

[me b zola]

33. K&R

[harun]

49. If Gov. Arnold wouldn't vetoe the measures in California we would already

have the first domino falling. Which of course is what happened in Canada. One province did it and the rest followed.

[Cleita]

68. Let's hope Jerry Brown becomes Governor.

He favors social programs and hopefully will have a legislature that passes the bill again and if he is governor when that happens, I believe he won't veto it but sign it into law. You can be sure Nut Meg won't. She will be worse than Arnold.

[CocaNova]

55. "Canada's left-of-centre New Democratic Party"

The NDP,is a social democratic political party in Canada.The party is regarded as falling on the left in the Canadian political spectrum.

New Democrats today advocate,among other things:

* Gender equality and equal rights for gays, lesbians, and minorities
* Improve environmental protection through government regulations
* National water safety standards
* Increasing corporate taxes<2>
* Reducing poverty in Canada<3>
* Human rights protection
* Expanded funding for public transportation
* Expanded public health care including dental and prescription drug coverage
* Social assistance policies that reflects citizens' needs and assist their re-entry to the work force
* Abolishing the Senate of Canada and ensuring more proportional representation<4>
* Workers' rights including raising the minimum wage
* Aboriginal treaty, land, and constitutional rights
* A foreign policy that emphasizes diplomacy, peacekeeping and humanitarian aid instead of offensive military action
* Renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)
* One wing is focused on ending the Canadian War on Drugs and legalizing recreational drugs

I guess that over here the would be considered as the Lunatic Fringe and/or Professional Left instead of left-of-center am I correct ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party

[dflprincess]

60. I want one of those partys

please, please can we get one too.

[laughingliberal]

64. Thanks. A lot of that looks like what our party used to fight for. nt

[Cleita]

69. Really, it would be considered practically communist

in this crazy country. However, back when I was growing up that kind of platform was main stream Democratic Party. I don't know what went wrong. I do believe the DLC is the big problem and that little money cult should probably be Republicans. They have ruined our Democratic Party.

[Mr. Sparkle]

76. I didnt think he was been anti Canadian.

[SidDithers]

77. Ian Capstick no more represents Canadian opinion...

than Sean Hannity represents American opinion.

Sid

[Bragi]

79. I disagree

On defending Canada's health care system, Capstick pretty much reflects the consensus view of most Canadians.

[SidDithers]

80. I agree that Canadians, including myself, will overwhelmingly defend our Health Care system...

But I disagree with Capstick that Gibbs was slamming Canada, or our health care, in his comments.

Sid

[nyc 4 Biden]

78. best article yet relating to GibbsGaffeGate. n/t

[FairWinds]

81. Mad As Hell Doctors Tour in 2009

I was one of many folks who helped the Docs (some nurses too) on their Single Payer advocacy tour from the West Coast all the way to DC in 2009. After taking time off from their jobs, and working their butts off for months spreading the word all the way across the country, when they finally got to DC, Obama refused to even meet with them - or to have any of his staff do so. That tells you a lot - unfortunately.

[Cleita]

84. Yes, the way the Single Payer and Medicare for All

advocates were treated by Washington DC as a whole soured me on those Democrats in office who obstructed true health reform. I am not alone and as a matter of fact we are in the majority. Washington insiders will see the hens come home to roost up the road about this and Gibbs pompous and dismissive remark only adds fuel to the fire.

[Flying Dream Blues]

82. This will all be worth it if it has the effect of getting us out

from behind our keyboards and into the streets. If Gibbs had ever seemed like anything other than a DLCer I might even wonder if it was an intentional move.

[area51]

83. Kick.

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.; that's 100,000 deaths per year.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

As a DU'er said:

"We will never have real reform until people's health stops being treated as a financial opportunity for corporations."