"Christian" church spreading hate of Muslims throught the burning of the Quran

[Axle_techie]

The Dove World Outreach Center

--snip--

In protest of what it calls a religion "of the devil," a nondenominational church in Gainesville, Florida, plans to host an "International Burn a Quran Day" on the ninth anniversary of the September 11, 2001, attacks.

The Dove World Outreach Center says it is hosting the event to remember 9/11 victims and take a stand against Islam. With promotions on its website and Facebook page, it invites Christians to burn the Muslim holy book at the church from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m.

"We believe that Islam is of the devil, that it's causing billions of people to go to hell, it is a deceptive religion, it is a violent religion and that is proven many, many times," Pastor Terry Jones told CNN's Rick Sanchez earlier this week.

Jones wrote a book titled "Islam is of the Devil," and the church sells coffee mugs and shirts featuring the phrase.

--snip--
From: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/29/florida.burn.quran.day/index.html

See also their thoughts about homosexuality: http://www.doveworld.org/blog/no-homo-mayor-protest-august-2-2010-city-hall
Random irrational anti-obama sentiment with no basis on policies: http://www.doveworld.org/blog/obama-said-i-am-a-moslem



Sounds to me like the Westboro Cult has a second campus opening down in Florida. Burning Qurans??? SERIOUSLY??? Christians are supposed to love EVERYONE and JUDGE NO ONE!!! Where did these idiots read in the bible that it is OK to spread hate in the guise of trying to save souls? It isn't in my Bible. I'm sure they would be FURIOUS if a bunch of Muslims got together to burn Bibles in memory of the violence perpetrated during the crusades.

These people are ridiculously misguided by a hate-monger posing as a pastor. It is their responsibility to know their Bible and keep hate out of their hearts and out of their church.

They are just another hate group trying to make a name for themselves.

[Kerrytravelers]

1. Wonder what they're planning for the tenth anniversary?

:scared:

[joeybee12]

2. Burn an actual Muslim?

i bet they would if they could.

[Kerrytravelers]

22. There was a time when I'd say no... but now, you never know what someone is capable of.

I don't know if it would be a planned event with fliers, but behavior like this encourages those on the fringe of sanity to step it up and take things further.

[damntexdem]

24. Just think of it as a new Children's Crusade.

Not children in age, just in mentality.

[Deep13]

3. Why put "Christians" in quotes?

Isn't the rejection of all other revelations a core principle of Christianity? Seems odd to suggest it isn't given what its holy book has to say about it and considering how good it has gotten at book burning in previous centuries.

[dmallind]

6. Just more No True Scotsmanism

After all if people do anything stupid or hateful or embarrassing they can't be real Christians now can they?

[Axle_techie]

13. I am by no means saying they are not Christians

merely it is more of a commentary that their acts are very un-christlike. It is not my place to judge what is in their hearts, but their actions speak for what is in their hearts, and if God is love, hate does not make one a Christian.

[Deep13]

27. Right, despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary.

:eyes:

[Axle_techie]

10. I put "Christian" in quotes

because they are misguided based on my understanding and opinion of the Bible. The core principle of Christianity is love, and simply love.

1 John 4:7-8 (7)Beloved, Let us love one another, for love is of God and everyone that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. (8)He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love.

Matthew 22:35-40(35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, (36) "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?"
(37) Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. (39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

You pointing out all the book burning in relation to the Christian church is the same as the people who point out the violence in relation to Islamic religion, and only fosters hate. They were wrong to burn books, it is not our place to judge or force. The crusades were wrong, and persecuting Islam through the burning of their holy texts is definitely wrong, and not effective to boot... If they were approached in love, there would be a better chance of being able to actually have a discussion that could end in converting someone. Burning their texts and yelling that they are wrong spreads hate and pisses them off...

[Deep13]

26. "...based on my understanding and opinion of the Bible."

Right, they have a different understanding and opinion of the Bible. It focuses on the blood sacrifice of JC for the sins of humanity.

I'll leave the believers to hash out which point of view is "right" whatever that might mean in a religious context.

If you think the God of the Bible is about love, then you should go back and read it again, because that's not what I got out of it. Let me illustrate with the example you gave.

Jesus' two commandments. The first is the requirement that you believe what Jesus believes. This is entirely in line with the book-burning behavior that the OP complains about. It should be noted that neither love nor belief can be commanded. The best I could do is pretend to love or pretend to believe. It is my own view that it is simply not possible to love something as insubstantial as god with all ones heart, mind and soul (however we choose to define those things). This is one of the chief evils of Christianity: its propensity for creating unattainable standards. This puts the devotee in a perpetual position of sin and failure giving her no option but to be a perpetual supplicant in need of forgiveness for not loving on command.

The second one looks well enough at first glance, but it too suffers (or rather its adherents do) of setting the bar impossibly high. We can certainly love our neighbor in the sense that we can behave ethically and morally toward her, but we cannot love our neighbors as ourselves. We are simply not constituted to be empathetic to that degree. Another important point that you and most liberal Christians overlook is that the language of this injunction is limited to one's neighbor. Assuming there was a Jesus who actually said this, he was a Jew speaking for Jews. "Neighbor" (as in the Old Testament) means other Jews. This again excludes nonbelieves of the kind that are the subjects of the vindictiveness of which the OP complains. What at first appears as a declaration of universal (if enforced) love is actually an expression of racial and religious bigotry. Such bigotry is reflected elsewhere among JC's teachings. When a non-Jewish woman asks him for help, he calls her a dog unworthy of his assistence.

And this is merely the one example you cite. It ought not be forgotten that the "golden rule" that invites us to treat others as we would be treated is not only are far better and more lucid guide to morality than the aforementioned, but it predates Christianity by several hundred years.

[Axle_techie]

33. I would like the exact reference

where he calls a non-jewish woman a dog unworthy of his help.

If you mean Matthew 15:22-28
(22) And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
(23) But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, "Send her away; for she crieth after us."
(24) But he answered and said, "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
(25) Then came she and worshipped him, saying, "Lord, help me."
(26) But he answered and said, "It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs."

Perhaps the rest of the context helps matters get clarified:
(27) And she said, "Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."
(28) Then Jesus answered and said unto her, "O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt." And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Jesus did not do as his disciples asked him to, he instead let her follow to see if she truly believed enough to fight for it. When she proved that, her daughter was immediately healed.

In Matthew 8, he heals a Roman centurions servant (who is referred to by a term that can also translate to male lover) He even says
(10) When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
(11) I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.




Also, blood sacrifice of JC was out of love for man, so I don't really see how that is different from my beliefs that we should at least try to love each other, or what point I would need to hash out with others. I also don't look at being told I should love as a command as it is my personal choice to be a Christian in the first place.

I push for unattainable standards not through guilt, but through the want to better myself, and do so continually. This is not making me better than others, but better in my own eyes when compared to the person I used to be. Not attaining something I know to be impossible to attain does not make me feel bad, rather it makes me feel good for even trying and pushing myself. As for what groups Jesus was referring to when he said neighbor, that is really up to interpretation. The Gentiles being added to the Jews as Gods chosen people satisfies many prophecies in the old testament, and Jesus even told his disciples to go and preach to all nations.
Matthew 28:18-20
(18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. (19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

As for whether or not Jesus existed, he is mentioned in multiple other texts than just the Bible.

So again, I fail to see how hate can be backed by scripture. I can tell that you seem to have had a bad experience with Christianity, or Christians, and I am sorry. I see the Bible differently than most, however, always taking into account that while inspired by God, it was still written by man, translated by man, and will always have at the least a bit of opinion that will make it fallible, regardless of what others believe. You cannot take something perfect and have it redone over and over by the imperfect and expect it to remain perfect. I also realize that the bible is a collection of scrolls that were found and originally recognized to belong loosely to the same grouping of stories, and some may belong, and some may not.

Also, this is simply what I believe, and while I will share it sometimes, I do not expect others to believe just because I do. I fully allow for the fact that I may be wrong, there may be no God, heaven, hell, or devil. They may not be the ones I believe in, or my beliefs about them may be wrong. But they are my beliefs, ones I choose, not am forced into.

[gerenimox]

35. yes, killing women who have sex without marriage is love

and simply love according to bible.

[Axle_techie]

36. New testament references please.

If you simply insult and dash, you are no better then the ground zero mosque haters. Jesus did not come here for the perfect, but for the sick. Where did Jesus advocate the murder of women who had sex out of marriage? Exact language in context please with references from the new testament, not the old.

[gerenimox]

39. here are some quotes from "the book of peace"

You may find the following Bible verses hard to believe even though fundamentalist Christians claim they are inspired by God and everything in the Bible is true for all time and must be taken literally. (Keep in mind that Bible translations differ.)

1. In the Bible's book of Deuteronomy it says that if a man marries a woman and then decides that he hates her, he can claim she wasn't a virgin when they married. At that point her father must prove she was a virgin. (How is not explained.) If he can't, then the girl is to be stoned to death at her father's doorstep.

2. If you see a pretty woman among your captives and would like her for a wife, then bring her home and "go in unto her." Later, if you decide you don't like her, you can simply "let her go." (Deuteronomy)

3. If a betrothed virgin is raped in the city and doesn't cry out loud enough, then "the men of the city shall stone her to death." (Deuteronomy)

4. In the book of Esther the king apparently decrees a sex contest among young virgin women to see who can best please him. (There is debate on how.) He eventually chooses Esther. However, since women are viewed as inherently dirty, Esther must be "purified" for twelve months before she can be made queen. (Esther)

5. Paul points out in New Testament Romans that "the natural use" of women is to provide men with sex. (Romans)

6. Heaven is to be inhabited by 144,000 virgin men who have not been "defiled" by women. (RE 14:1-4)

7. A group of sexual depraved men beat on the door of an old man's house demanding that he turn over to them a male house guest. Instead, the old man offers his virgin daughter and his guest's wife: "Behold, here are my virgin daughter and his concubine (wife); let me bring them out now. Ravish them and do with them what seems good to you; but against this man do not do so vile a thing." The women were subsequently ravished and killed. (JG)

8. In Exod. we see that it is permissible to sell one's daughter (but apparently not one's son) into slavery.

9. According to St. Jerome, "Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to be unclean." In Leviticus it states, "If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days...if she bears a female child she shall be unclean two weeks...."

10. "A woman dropped a stone on his head and cracked his skull. Hurriedly he called to his armor-bearer, 'Draw your sword and kill me, so that they can't say a woman killed me.' So his servant ran him through, and he died." (Judges)

11. Under God's direction, Moses' army kills all the adult males, but they mercifully just take the women and children captive. When Moses learns that they left some women and children alive, he angrily says: "Kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him." Throughout Bible history God is said to demand that thousands, if not millions, of men, women and children be slaughtered. And they are.

12. A man has an obligation to produce a child with his brother's widow. If he refuses, his sister-in-law is to spit in his face in front of the elders. (Deuteronomy 25:5-9) And in case you are Jewish, you may be familiar with the Jewish prayer: "Blessed be the God who has not created me a heathen, a slave or a woman."

We've only listed a dozen Bible quotes of this type, but there are many more.

Would we be wrong in assuming that even Bible literalists wouldn't want these verses read to their children in Bible School? Plus, what parent would want their children reading Bible verses comparing the size of men's penises to donkey genitals and their sperm flow to that of horses? Books are commonly banned from school libraries for much less.

Most Old Testament law dates back centuries to Jewish tribal law and would be considered not only immoral but illegal today. At the same time, fundamentalist, Bible-carrying Christians claim they are the for-all-time, inviolable Word of God.

http://www.cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm

[Axle_techie]

41. Christians sprung from the NEW TESTAMENT

and the only reference you had from that was Paul saying women only have use to provide the men with sex... without exact reference. I would like you to show me where CHRIST, who's teachings were the origin of CHRISTianity, preached about murdering women, or gays, or anyone for that matter. I have a degree in theology, with hundreds of hours of personal study in the new testament alone, and I have never seen Christ advocate anything close to what you describe. I also keep in mind that the writings in the bible are written and translated by man, and take what I read with a grain of salt. Just because it says it, or some who claim to be believers use the old testament and the writings of Paul, who did not even walk with Jesus or hear his teachings and was in fact one of the greatest killers of Christians known, does not make it valid or right.

Show me where Jesus said it, I will ask once again.

[gerenimox]

43. ok I`ll let you know where Jesus said it

if I can find his sermon dvd`s.

[Axle_techie]

44. A snarky reply

for when you don't have an answer. I am sorry you seem to have so much hate for Christians, but the ones who are actually Christians, who follow only the teachings of Christ, love you no matter what.

We are a very few, a massive minority. Those who believe that Gay marriage should be legal because we love Gays just as much as we love everyone else and want to see them equal, those who believe that prayer should not be allowed in school because it offends people, and we love those people enough to not want to offend them, and those who believe that religion has no place being regulated by government because we do not want it forced on others... We are fundamentalist Christians. Christ taught love, not hate. He taught peace, not war. He taught that to die in the face of those who want you dead, even when you have the power to obliterate them, at that time it is more noble to forgive them and let them kill you, and to love them till your very last breath.

Christianity sprung from the teachings of Christ. To judge all Christians on the actions of those who interpret the Bible to say that hate is OK is the same as judging all Muslims on the actions of a few extremists who crashed planes into a couple of towers 9 years ago, or all democrats on the actions of the 1800's southern Democrats. Just because a name is shared does not mean a belief is, and neither should a generalization or a judgment be.

[AnArmyVeteran]

19. I put 'Christians' in quotes a lot.

When I do it, I expose the complete hypocrisy in a person or a group who profess to be Christians, when it's obvious they have no idea what the teachings of Jesus were. Example: Right wing radio hosts all claim to be 'Christians' but then make huge fortunes bearing false witness against their neighbors. They profit monetarily by violating one of the Ten Commandments every day they are on the air and their 'Christian' listeners lap up their every lie.

I understand what you are saying and a lot of Christian religions believe if you're not one of them you're going to hell. But it's obvious they aren't even practicing what's in their Bibles because they constantly judge others. They also apparently have never read the line in the Bible that states "take the plank out of your own eye before trying to remove a splinter out of another's". I haven't met very many practicing Christians in my life.

It's sad how the 'Christians' in this story are so filled with hatred. They are so easily guided by evil with seemingly no knowledge of the contents of their Bibles.

[Deep13]

25. I'll leave the theology for the believers.

Suffice it to say, they accept the divinity of Jesus and the promise of eternal life after death and identify themselves as Christians. Further, they participate in Christian rituals, at least pretend to abide by what they see as Christian morality and are often well-versed in its literature. Ergo, they're Christians.

When I was a liberal Christian, I thought as you do. Nevertheless, liberals have no better grounds for thinking their version of Christianity is true than the Fundies do. It was actually the foundational documents of Christianity that made me think Jesus' teachings are not so good and are closer to what the Fundies think than what liberals do. As noted elsewhere, this is just an example of what is called the No True Scottsman fallacy. And it's a fallacy because it assumes what you are trying to demonstrate. No true Christian would be this evil, therefore, they are no true Christians. The fact is Christians can be as bad as anyone else and have the added incentive to blame their bad behavior on divine warrant. This trait is shared by other religions, of course.

[AnArmyVeteran]

34. Great post. Thanks.

[Skidmore]

4. Great, Another bunch of ignorant, bigoted people waving a red flag to

another group of ignorant, bigoted people. Anyone else here thinking that they might as well paint a target on the roof of their building? I so have come to loathe religious institutions...houses of worship? Not! Perpetuators of historical hatreds and retribution all.

[NeedleCast]

5. This should be protested by liberals with fire extinguishers

The easiest way to make these toolbags look silly at their 'good 'ole fashion book burnin' is to stand nearby with a fire extinguisher. That'll put a damper on their book burning. Literally.

[Axle_techie]

11. that would be awesome.

[NeedleCast]

14. That, or find out if the area they plan to have their book burnin'

has a statute, code or law against open fires and then call the police or fire department to break up their little klan rally.

[Axle_techie]

17. I would like to film that

along with someone telling the irate book burners that the Bible says to submit to authority...

[AnArmyVeteran]

20. Great idea!!!!

[Parker CA]

30. That's an awesome idea. The looks of frustration as they try to burn them only to have them put out

would be priceless.

[Axle_techie]

42. IT WOULD

I almost want to drive to Florida to do it... Kentucky to Florida is a long drive, and I have been unemployed to long to afford it since I don't draw on benefits...

[Dogtown]

7. I'm too lethargic

or I'd take a trip down there with a load of their favorite snuff-porn literature and a box of Strike-Anywheres.

[Steely_Dan]

8. So, I assume...

that thy won't be supporting the building of a mosque near ground zero. *sigh*

[Arkansas Granny]

9. Burning the Quran was apparently common during the Spanish Inquisition.

What's next?

[Rebubula]

12. So what?

The religion wars have been burning forever.

There are thousands of mosques in the world that preach hate against all infidels. I expect that many christian churches are just as stupid.

Hate is inherent in religion.




EDITED for Grammar mistakes.

[Axle_techie]

15. Hate is inherent when hateful people

use religion to further their own goals, or to hold power over people for whatever perverted pleasure it gives them.

[Rebubula]

16. With few exceptions...

...that kind of religion is all that I have ever seen.

Religion has always been about power and using people's fear of death and the mystery of the universe to control them.

With the exception of Buddhism (and it is more of a philosophy than a religion), I find all religions abhorrent.

[Axle_techie]

18. I can completely understand that,

just realize that there are some out there that use religion as a reason to love everyone instead of hate. I try to be one such person... Heck, at church a couple of Sundays back, my pastor got up and said something to the effect of never voting against gay marriage because we are sent to love, and never shying away from a Muslim because we are not supposed to judge. It was funny, I could see the shock on a couple of peoples faces, and even the pastor said that he bets a few people won't come back to that church because of it...

[AnArmyVeteran]

21. Religion is the biggest tool in Hate's Toolbox.

Religion is just another man-made tool used to divide people and breed hatred. Yes, there are positive aspects of religion, but I see far more negative ones. If you measure the impact of religion on mankind I wonder if in the final tally evil would outweigh any good.

[polly7]

23. This Pastor needs to

read up on violence expressed in the Bible. The Old Testament could be interpreted by fanatics to concoct religious justification for any unspeakable horror. As it has been. Why are they demonizing Muslims by burning their Holy book? Is it hatred because they own much of the world's oil supply? Hatred to justify 'wars' against them? The Quran itself can't be the only reason, not unless the Pastor has only read the children's Bible version ........ the one with the pretty pictures.

[derby378]

28. Have they ever burned any copies of LaVey's Satanic Bible?

If not, then they're just race-baiting, and the pastor should STFU.

[Axle_techie]

38. I read that

and it was not as bad as I thought...

[Deep13]

29. Well that's nothing new.

Guilt following WWII means these people need to replace the Jews as an object of their irrational fear. If it makes the Muslims feel any better, they hate gays too. But then, so do most devout Muslims.

[Axle_techie]

40. The funny thing is

that if you follow the holy texts from the Jews, the Arabic nations sprung from the bastard elder son of Abraham, who's other son founded the nation of Israel... I guess the punch line is that they are all related, but hate each other anyways

[AngryAmish]

31. So?

Why should I care? One set of nut bags riling up another set of nut bags.

Let them. It is a free country. Free enough to ignore losers like this.

[Axle_techie]

37. We don't live in a free country, we are ruled by

corporations and politicians. Where did you get the idea that we are free?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

32. Heinrich Heine is red-lining the marble tachometer.

"Where first they burn books, eventually they burn people".

From the play Almanzor, 1821, by Heinrich Heine, said by a character in Spain who burns a Koran.

He figured out that Germany would eventually waken and cause a catastrophe that would "make the French Revolution look like a summer idyll", and wrote that 99 years before the Nazis were burning books in 1933.

We've all been through this before, folks, in the history of the Spanish Inquisition and the Nazis.