Firefighter cited after confronting man who didn’t remove hat during national anthem

[proud2BlibKansan]

The Associated Press

LAWRENCE | A Lawrence firefighter was cited for battery after a confrontation with another man who didn’t take off his hat during the playing of the national anthem.

Lawrence police spokesman Sgt. Matt Sarna says the conflict occurred Friday at a Free State High School marching band performance.

Bob Mandell told police that firefighter Daniel Clouse grabbed him by the neck and shook him while berating him for not removing his hat. Mandell says he forgot to remove his hat and was not being disrespectful.

Clouse told The Lawrence Journal-World that he touched Clouse on the back and had a respectful 30-second conversation with him. He says he’ll fight the citation in court.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/12/2145074/firefighter-cited-after-confronting.html?commentSort=RecommendationsDescending&pageNum=1#ixzz0wPeK0e9j

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions, and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer

[demosincebirth]

34. "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." Samuel Johnson

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

2. When a firefighter tells me to jump I say "How high?"!

Firemen are the last of the real heroes in this world, and I will respect their wishes.

[zipplewrath]

3. And when he grabs you by the neck and throws you?

You'll say, "thank you sir, may I have another"?

[joeybee12]

This guy has anger issues...

...probably a teabagger if something like this sets him off.

[L0oniX]

60. Most likely a wife beater too.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. LOL!

[KansasVoter]

4. Really weak and stupid logic there.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KansasVoter]

43. LOL.....so that means a fireman can beat me up. STUPID!

[realisticphish]

44. ???

so the fuck what? Lots of people do lots of very good jobs, often in jobs that are far more ignored than firefighters. That doesn't mean that I have to take off my fucking hat because they tell me to.

[JoeyT]

45. Speaking as ex-VFD, that firefighter can go screw himself.

No one's job entitles them to be an asshole.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[piratefish08]

48. how many free beatings did the firemen earn by doing their job at your sister's house?

one apiece? two?

just curious.

[LostinVA]

56. "I stand by what I said, and fuck all of you"

My, my. Someone else has anger issues, too, it seems.

[Dogtown]

57. MY sister's house caught fire last week, too!

Our firemen saved the whole city from burning, and rescued a kitten at the same time.
And it only took OUR firemen 6 hours!


Isn't it lucky that we can take our own personal anecdotes to prove *exactly* our points!!!@!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

5. How to accurately describe this post without breaking DU rules?

How, I ask?

[sufrommich]

6. Firefighters are paid to fight fires, not act as Patriot Police. nt

[Obamanaut]

51. +1 nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. During a fire, sure. At a band concert? No.

[Ikonoklast]

9. Fuck that. Anyone that touches me without my permission

gets asked *one time* to please stop.


I don't ask twice.

[damntexdem]

10. When they grab you by the back of the neck and shake you?

Well, if I were in a fire situation and that was the only way to get my attention or adequately-prompt compliance, OK.

But if it's because the firefighter doesn't like my performance of patriotism, I say sue the hell out of the jerk and demand that he be prosecuted.

[Forkboy]

14. Getting upset over a hat to the point of violence isn't something worthy of respect.

If this is an example of one the world's last heroes then we are well and truly fucked.

[kenfrequed]

38. Or how about this...

How respectful and patriotically correct are you being to run up to someone while the flag is going by and grab and shake them?

[derby378]

16. And if a firefighter hassles another Quaker for not removing his hat...

...this Quaker will get in his face about it. We mean no disrespect; it's just a manifestation of our philosophical approach to the world.

[asdjrocky]

18. You don't know many firefighters.

But hey, everyone needs their heroes right?

[kestrel91316]

19. I never respect the wishes of fools, no matter what their line of work.

[rhett o rick]

20. What a bazaar response. All firefighters are right all the time? Good Grief Mr. Brown. nm

[SammyWinstonJack]

22. Pathetic.

:puke:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

23. .

:spray:

[LaurenG]

25. though they may be hero's they don't get to tell me to remove my hat.

The firefighter was out of line, he needed to mind his own business.

[Bluebear]

26. Is this some psychosexual thing? Because it makes no sense.

[nosmokes]

27. And when he's not on duty I bet even you would say his shit still stinks.

The firefighter may or may not be a pseudo-patriot asshole(I'll give ya better than even he is) but he certainly had an assholian moment and it's good to remember that even 'angels' have dark sides.

[arbusto_baboso]

29. You've never worked with firefighters, have you?

The current breed is a little different, as their knowledge base has to be pretty broad (at least in urban departments). But old-school, or rural firefighters are redneck peckerwoods of a stereotypical degree, and most can't keep their dicks in their pants, whether it be with women or pre-op transsexuals.

Just saying what I've observed.

[NoGOPZone]

35. Firefighters don't care how HIGH you can jump

they only care if you can hit the net.

[Liberal_in_LA]

37. lol. ok.

[Mariana]

40. My sister is a firefighter.

Her take on this kind of stupidity (paraphrased):

Firefighters generally don't like working with people who demonstrate such poor judgement as this jackass did. If he behaves in such a manner on the job he might get someone hurt or killed. If he really assaulted this guy for something so ridiculous, then he should be prosecuted and and he needs to be fired too, because he's obviously too unstable for that job.

[trumad]

46. So if he told you to bend over and spread your cheeks...

would you?

[LostinVA]

55. Not when they are acting like jackbooted thugs

[L0oniX]

59. WTF

[LanternWaste]

61. I imagine we all succumb to the drama of authority figures...

I imagine we all succumb to our own dramatic interpretation of authoritarianism quite often. While some may not realize they do it, I guess others will justify it.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

63. Your name is appropriate, Prisoner.

You keep jumping, slave.

[LWolf]

11. He didn't have to have forgotten. There is no law about removing one's hat, is there?

As long as his hat didn't pose a fire hazard, that fireman was out of line.

He could have remained sitting and chatting without stopping to note the anthem, if he wanted to.

[sufrommich]

12. Yes, he could have. Just like you don't really have to bow

your head when someone prays.

[LWolf]

15. True. nt

[rhett o rick]

21. Agree. The fireman doesnt understand freedom. nm

[Mariana]

39. He understtands freedom just fine.

He just doesn't LIKE freedom.

[rhett o rick]

41. I stand corrected. Thank you. nm

[Forkboy]

13. "Respect America or I'll kick your head in!"

[HughBeaumont]

17. Ah, the National Anthem Jackboots. Always love them.

Last I checked, it's not against the law to not remove your hat during the National Anthem.

My grandfather was at Pearl Harbor, an incident that could have been averted if America trusted foreign intelligence. If he was in the wrong place at the wrong time, I wouldn't be typing this. My cousin came home from the Gulf War with lymph problems. All he did was direct traffic. My friend came home from his second tour of OIF with major PTSD and just finished alcohol rehab.

It's really a wonder I even stand for this anthem to begin with, considering all the damage caused in our country's fucked up quest to be "nummer WON!"

[tblue37]

33. Hi, HB. My dad was also at Pearl Harbor--a 19-year-old

airman at the time.

[HughBeaumont]

50. Yep, mine was 19 as well.

He was part of the Air Force as a mechanic. He was half asleep, as were the rest of the people in his unit, and they were blown out of their bunks and down steps due to the force.

The war led him to be a pilot and he flew missions over D-Day and the ETO.

My biggest regret is that I never really knew him as well as I could have.

:patriot:

[tblue37]

64. My dad was also an Air Force mechanic at the time.

I bet they knew each other and worked together!

[Ezlivin]

24. The firefighter was upset over THIS hat:

I think I could have choked the guy too...

[LaurenG]

28. Hey that is a work of art. No wonder he didn't want to remove it.

:rofl:

[rasputin1952]

52. ...

[Javaman]

30. I love it when morons confuse patriotism with nationalism.

Wear a brownshirt next time fireman.

[a la izquierda]

31. I can sort of relate to the guy who didn't take his hat off.

I told my sister-in-law, a psychotic teabagger, that I've never in my life put my hand on my heart during the national anthem.
Her response?
It's because I'm a socialist and she "knows" I'm not proud of my country. I tried to explain to her that my husband (her husband's younger brother) didn't either. She didn't dare question his patriotism. She simply said that was his problem because she "knows" our father-in-law taught those boys right.
We haven't spoken since (it's been nearly a year). I'm not bothered by this either.

[Renew Deal]

32. He had a "respectful" 30 second conversation during the national anthem?

Uh huh

[lpbk2713]

36. Another over-the-top BecKKKbot.

They feel empowered to pull shit like this just because BecKKK says it's OK.

[WinkyDink]

49. No stranger better "touch" me "on the back". Just sayin'.

[rasputin1952]

53. I would suppose that there are plenty of witnesses as to what ...

happened.

In any case, when you touch another, regardless of the motive, it can be considered assault. The degree of assault can be challenged, but the assault took place and that is what the court will start with.

There are no laws on the books as to how one should respond to either the flag or the National Anthem. There are suggestions and printed protocol for the American Flag and the National Anthem, but laws are expressly left out...the 1st Amendment could be violated if there were express laws for either. One need not stand, one need not place their over their heart, no one is obligated to show overt "respect" for the flag.

Regardless of the status of employment of the individual that decided he'd be outraged over this, he was wrong, and if this goes to court, he will most likely be found guilty of assault, depending on the jurisdiction, he could face a stiff fine or, if the assault was relatively violent spend some time in the local jail.

[LostinVA]

54. If he WAS being disrespectful, he's allowed to be

I don't "act up" dung the Pledge or NA, but neither do I "go along" with them. i think they are nationalistic, and the Pledge, as it is now, is also unconstitutional (thanks, Red Baiters and K of C!).

[L0oniX]

58. I will bet that this asscarrot batters his wife too.

[TK421]

62. Do people have a problem with hats? I wear mine all the time and normally

don't take it off for most of the day, and sometimes I forget I have it on! I happen to like hats.

Hats sure do offend some stupid people....and it's a fucking anthem!!

This guy also needs to keep his fucking hands to himself