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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 05:38 PM
Original message
Say You Stay Home from the Polls As a Protest Vote Against the Democrats this Fall…
And say a bunch of your neighbors decide to do the same thing. What is the worst that could happen? Washington Democrats are just Republicans in sheep’s clothing, right? A bunch of elephants who have squeezed themselves into donkey suits. If the Republicans regain control of the House (and maybe the Senate) this fall, they will have to share the blame for the fucked up economy. And this will send a powerful message to Democratic leaders. Anger the base at your own risk, Bozos!

What is the worst that could happen?

I. Another Round of Presidential Impeachment Proceedings

They had a trial run back in the 1990’s. Now they know how to do it right. They will use national treasure Patrick Fitzgerald, this time, rather than pornographer/witch hunter Ken Starr. Instead of a series of Grand Jury leaks to the New York Times, we will see Fitz himself get on national television to proclaim that the presidential crimes he has uncovered are the worst committed by a political leader ever (and that includes Nero fiddling while Rome burned). He must be given carte blanche to examine every aspect of Obama’s life---starting with the question of his citizenship. In order to leave no stone unturned, he will have to interogate the president over and over again, about everything from his drug use history to his sex life. If a man or (white) woman comes forward to claim that the president touched/propositioned/harassed him/her, the accuser will be given top priority---and top publicity, too, by the folks at Murdoch enterprises. The phrase “Chicago Machine” will be on every corporate media news pundits' lips. Charles Krauthammer will write about Obama’s narcissism.

This time, the GOP will not wait to do their dirty deeds. They will pounce while the economy is in deep shit, ensuring the support of millions of Americans, eager to blame someone, anyone for the economic woes. Obama put his dick where? Oh my god! No wonder I can not find work! Obama put what up his nose? Dear Lord! Our country is doomed!

Here is someone else who thinks that a GOP House majority will impeach.

(I)mpeachment talk moved yesterday from Tea Party rallies to at least one Republican Member of the House, Darrell Issa. And Issa's not an obscure backbencher; he's the ranking Republican on Oversight and Government Reform, and he also sits on the Judiciary Committee. impeachment talk moved yesterday from Tea Party rallies to at least one Republican Member of the House, Darrell Issa. And Issa's not an obscure backbencher; he's the ranking Republican on Oversight and Government Reform, and he also sits on the Judiciary Committee


http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/05/here_comes_impeachment.html

II. A Return to Slavery

Slaves were not U.S. citizens. Even though they were born here and their parents were born here and their grandparents and so on. Therefore, they did not have a right to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Right now, thousands of employers are thinking to themselves If only I did not have to pay a minimum wage! If only there were a class of workers who have no place else to go and no OSHA protection!

Senator and ex-Lewinsky panty sniffer Lindsey Graham from the former slave state of South Carolina, whose State House sometimes looks like this



Wants to repeal the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

“I'm looking at the laws that exist and see if it makes sense today,” Graham said. “Birthright citizenship doesn't make so much sense when you understand the world as it is.”


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40635.html#ixzz0w903Ez3l

Republicans have been quick to embrace Graham’s suggestion.

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and other top Republicans quickly jumped on the issue and called for hearings.


http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20100808/NEWS/8081117/1348

With the 14th amendment gone, the U.S. Chambers of Commerce will have even more corporate money to launder for campaign contributions. Here is how.

Workers’ salaries are a huge part of business overhead. In order to fulfill the promise of supply side economics in this country, industry needs to eliminate workers’ discretionary income and replace it with a subsistance wage that allows them to keep breathing while they slave at their 16 hour a day factory jobs. How can they achieve that? Easy. Take a generation of kids----say the English speaking children of Latino immigrants. Deny them higher education. Deny them health care. In order to stay in the only home they have ever known, they will be forced to take jobs that pay shit wages, laboring in third world style sweat shops. They will buy the food and clothing they need at so called “company stores” and they will live in “company dormatories”---no one else will extend them the credit they require to get by. As their debt to their employer rises, they will find themselves forced to labor just to pay off the interest. Their underage children will be put to work to help with the payments. If they balk, they will be thrown into debtor’s prisons (They are not citizens, remember? They do not have Constitutional protections.) where they will labor for an even smaller salary.

The presence of modern day serfs will keep wages down for all U.S. workers. In non-Latinos try to complain, they will be told to shut up and pack their things. They will be encouraged to take out their anger on the easiest target---the Latino serfs. Violence against non-citizen workers will make them dependent upon their employers for protection. Soon, they will not be born in the USA. They will be “Born to Ford” or “Born to Pilgrim’s Pride” or “Born to Lockheed.”

III. The End of Social Security and Medicare

You think I am kidding? Did you read gregjones’ OP today in DU?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/gregjones/1

“The Republican solution to state financial distress should be simple: The Party should insist on a change in the federal bankruptcy law providing for a procedure for state bankruptcy (none now exists). This process must call for abrogation (means=to end) of all state and local public employee union contracts as is usually done in private sector bankruptcies. By freeing states and local governments (including school boards) of their union obligations on wages, work rules, staffing, and pensions, they have a chance to survive and, indeed, to prosper.”

Dick Morris


Dick Morris is an idiot and a horse’s ass. But he is a solidly Republican idiot and horse’s ass. If he says that the nation should bankrupt city and state governments so that they will be forced to declare bankruptcy---at which point all union contracts and pension funds will disappear---he is saying what his corporate masters want to hear.

You don’t work for the state, you say? And your kids are too old to go to public school? How about Medicare? Does your mother rely on Medicare? Can she do without her pacemaker? What about the Social Security check you were counting on to help you in your retirement years, now that the banksters have destroyed your 401k? Do you think your health will allow you to work until you are 80 or 90?

If a Republican controlled Congress passes legislation to allow governments to go bankrupt, then they can force the federal government into bankrupcty. In the name of balancing the budget. Since Congress controls the purse strings, it will decide which government programs are maintained and which get the axe---and which are turned over to private contractors. Healthy elderly will get pushed onto so called Advantage plans. Unhealthy elderly will be told to go to their local charity hospital---but wait! Local government bankruptcies will have destroyed the nation’s system of indigent health care. I guess the elderly will have to go to Mexico to see a doctor.

IV. Beachfront Property…in Tennessee

Guess who will be back in the saddle again if the GOP takes over the house? I will give you one hint. Which privately owned company is bankrolling the Tea Parties? Remember this old journal of mine?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/McCamy%20Taylor/421

Koch Industries---oil---is behind all those Obama as Joker signs.



The oil industry knows that its days are numbered, and it plans to take the rest of us with them. Forget about clean, renewable energy. The folks at Kochs---and Chevron and in Saudi Arabia---want us to “Burn, Baby Burn” fossil fuels even if it means melting the polar ice caps---

They even have plans to drill for oil in the Arctic, once all the ice has gone.

The GOP does not want us to know that they are in Big Oil’s pocket. When Rep. Barton apologized to BP for all the fuss we were making over a little spilled oil, Republican leaders were quick to stick a sock in his mouth---probably the same one they used to silence watermelon shooting Dan Burton back in the 1990s. However, Barton would not have said what he said if he did not believe that his fellow Republicans (secretly) had his back. If you live in the Gulf region and you are counting upon some kind of financial compensation for your losses, you had better pray that Congress does not turn Republican this fall. Otherwise, you will be paying BP to help shore up its profits.


V. Can We Learn from History, Pretty Please?

Yeah, I know that it is un-American to learn from your mistakes. A rugged individualist holds onto his beliefs until the bitter end and beyond. We are the country which said “No” to a political candidate (Gore) because he was too damn smart to trust. But still---

At the urging of tobacco/alcohol/gambling lobbyist Grover Norquist (who never met a federal government too large to be drowned in a bathtub), Ralph Nader encouraged us to cast “protest votes” back in 2000. Folks like Michael Moore and Tim Robbins helped get the word out. They told us that Gore was the same as Bush, and that it would not make any difference which side won.

Two quagmires, one recession/depression and a gazillion civil rights violations later how many people still think that way?

Come on, tell me that losing control of Congress is not the same as losing control of the White House. Tell me that Obama will have our backs (even though many of us do not have his). Let’s hear about how a Boehner House won’t be any different from a Pelosi House.

In an interview with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published yesterday, House Minority Leader John Boehner said that he would ensure that there’s enough money to pay for the war by increasing the Social Security retirement age to 70 for people who have at least 20 years until retirement, tying cost-of-living increases to the consumer price index rather than wage inflation, and limiting payments to those who need them.


http://blog.ctnews.com/kantrowitz/2010/07/01/boehner-statement-on-social-security-financial-reform/

You have been warned.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. People have the right to create their own disaster - the trouble is they create it for all of us
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
51. The same could be said for those who continue to put Conservative,
Pro-WAR, Anti-LABOR Blue Dog "Centrists" in office simply because they have a "D" after their name.

The continued failed policies of "Free Trade" and "More War" are YOUR fault.
Not mine.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. Fear is a good tool it would seem..
:shrug: Now tell me how those things won't happen anyway..
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Snark for snark's sake?
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
74. It's a legitimate question that deserves an answer. Do you have one
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 09:20 AM by Raineyb
or are you just here to wave some plastic about?
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county worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #74
79. No it's not a legitimate question
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #79
98. So you have no answer...got it.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
91. Because a Democratic Congress won't do any of those things
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're warning the wrong people.
The country I live in elected Al Gore.

WE voted for Gore. We protested that election AND 2004. WE didn't pull a Donna Brazille and issue a report whitewashing 2004. WE minded the 2006 midterms, tracking election fraud. WE put our money and time and activism where our mouth was.

WE have never shut up about election fraud or anything else, for that matter, despite years of taking browbeating like THIS and seeing our hard won elections stolen without even a peep from the Democrats.

Take it up with them. Light them up, we already have plenty of light here. Not only have we elected the right people, we've fought to have those choices honored with zip help from the Democrats.

Take it up with them. Warn them. And good luck with that.


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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. +1 for common sense.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. +1
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Yep, you nailed it.
And even if she were warning the *right* people, warning a small segment of the right people is pointless. Once you are in the position of having to exhort, cajole or thrreaten your base to turn out for an election, you've already lost.

Next time, exhort, cajole and/or threaten our elected Democrats to give the base something to vote for.
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
50. Perfect Response jgraz
I can always tell when there is an upcoming election...we get the "don't let the Scary Republicans win" posts.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. +1 True democrats are smarter than the OP nt
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. +1
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. Righteous, EFerrari. Absolutely righteous!!
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Touchdown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
57. Wrong place
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 10:22 PM by Touchdown
Oops!
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
76. Sing it, Sister. (n/t)
:fistbump:
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. I already voted in the Primary
Now I'm just waiting for general election ballot to come.
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Kermitt Gribble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. And the Fear Campaign grabs another gear... n/t
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Ruby the Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. As disappointed in the party as I am right now, I don't have a choice.
My (R) Rep and (D) Sen are up. I need to help (hopefully) defeat the first and reelect the second.

Ugh.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. fearmongering -- it's what's for breakfast!
:eyes:
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kiva Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yum...with a little terror on the side. n/t
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Stoic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Nope, I got a lot of good local Dems to vote for.
My Congressman is also Elijah Cummings. I wish we could clone him and make all the Dems just like him. He'll get my vote every time.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
MineralMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Feh!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wow, that's truly overreach, even for DU standards of fearmongering
A return to slavery:eyes: Puhleeze Vulcan.

Oh, and as far as SS and Medicare goes, I guess you haven't been paying attention to the Catfood Commission's doings. Appointed by Obama.

Let us also not fool ourselves that Big Oil doesn't have a megaphone voice in this administration. Wars for oil and empire, check. Deferential treatment of oil companies, check (witness BP).

Besides, who says that people will protest by simply staying home? There are other options than the two major parties:shrug:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Okay, okay, then
try this: If you don't donate and vote for every last democrat in the nation, Sarah Palin will outlaw ice cream.

Still pretending that there is any other option? You won't think that way when the black boots come looking in your freezer.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Well I have put on a few extra pounds,
Doing away with ice cream might be a boon:shrug:
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Result's the same, though.
Voting for the Greens or SWP or whoever and staying home, when you otherwise would have voted for the Dems, is basically the same thing as voting for a Republican. Absent truly massive electoral reform, the options are 1.) vote Democratic, because at least none of them are talking about goddamn repealing the 14th Amendment or 2.) vote for a republican by proxy, and hope that that warm glow of moral superiority is enough to overpower the knowledge that you helped put people whose view on citizenship are indistinguishable from the fucking Aryan Nations in power. It sucks, but that's the choice.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
56. Then that is, ultimately, no option at all,
But rather simply putting off the inevitable collapse. It's like asking would I rather die by a bullet or a slow death due to terminal disease.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. I think you are seriously underestimating the difference between the parties.
Again, you have one that is seriously talking about trying to repeal one of the things that made us a beacon as a nation, and one that isn't. The choice should be crystal fucking clear. One party has been taken over by the Stormfront Caucus, and one hasn't. If you're not afraid, you should be. It really is that important.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Let me try this again,
Think "good cop/bad cop". That's the game that's being played in this country, has been for years and decades. The 'Pugs are the bad cops, they say the stupidest shit, threaten to do the most impossible things. Everybody rushes from the bad cop, agrees to whatever the good cops, in this case the Dems, want us to do. And in the end, since we're dealing with "cops" either way, we always wind up fucked.

Don't believe me? This has happened before in our country, go check out the Gilded Age, when party didn't matter because both parties did whatever their corporate masters told them to do. Sure, they put on a fine act, do some fire breathing speeches, but in the end, we still lose.

It is time to break that cycle, and to do that you need to stop giving in to the fear. Fear has been used as a conscious ploy by both parties time and again in order to get their desired end. Stop letting fear rule you, stop playing the game.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. Let me try this again
One party is actually, measurably, worse for the most vulnerable among us. You really think they won't try and get the 14th changed or appealed? Trying has no political cost for them. They get to kick an already despised minority and advance a truly vile, racist agenda at the same time. Think about those marriage protection initiatives in 2004, and then multiply that by an amendment to the federal constitution. That's what's going to happen.

You seem to be operating from this position that ideology doesn't matter, that everything's based on the demands of money, which is something I don't think holds water. Ideology is still the factor in politics. The Republicans don't want to destroy the meaning of citizenship, or reduce women to chattel, because it's nice and handy for scaring the rubes into voting against the economic self-interest - they actually believe in that shit. I think that liberals/progressives don't take that nearly seriously enough, and we're going to suffer for it.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. I have never threatened to stay home this fall,
and I've rarely seen posts from others talking about it, either.

Plenty of expressions of disgruntlement, of removing the donations and time spent working to elect candidates, plenty of pondering independents or 3rd party choices, but rarely do I see people at DU deciding to "stay home."

Yet I read numerous posts every day gearing up to attack them for staying home, or to convince them not to.

That tells me that the message of the disenfranchised is being heard loud and clear, regardless of how it may seem to be ignored.

For the record, I've never not voted, and I'll be voting. I am reasonably satisfied with my Democratic Senator, and plan to vote for his re-election. While there's little chance of unseating my Republican congressperson, I will be supporting his opponent.

I will probably vote for the Democratic nominee for Governor, even though I'm not happy with him. It depends on how he responds to the letter I wrote. Regardless, I won't stay home, and won't vote for the Republican.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. I read this all the time, here at DU and elsewhere. However, per DU rules I can not quote
any of these remarks. So, I will write a new OP and quotes remarks from other (non DU) sites to prove that there is a mainstream media/GOP conspiracy afoot to convince likely Democratic voters to stay home this fall by claiming that staying home will convince Congess to 1) give them jobs 2) give them citizenship and 3) give them______. Maybe that way, people will recognize the GOP propaganda for what it is when they read it on DU.

This is 2000 all over again, guys. Exact same Republican strategy. If you did not read my op "Political Weapons of Mass Destruction", the attacks are 1) apathy and 2) divide and conquer. Two time proven GOP methods to win elections with a minority of the (registered) vote.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I'm not staying home either on any election day.
I just refuse to vote for *anybody* who doesn't support in the main my admittedly liberal causes;
and I'm proud of them, in fact.

Else what, really, is voting FOR
especially when your party is no longer recognizable?
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
34. None of us are staying home.
My plan; No holds barred in the primary, write ins or whatever if your candidate is a Dino; If for nothing else, to show the huge level of disgust and send a blunt message;

But, without enthusiasm, holding the nose and doing what ever crap we must do in final elections to get two more years of the same old crap of handing the taxpayer's treasury over to corpfasism.

There is a certain foul smell to voting for corp enabling pugs pretending to be dems, just because they have a D after their name; Folks in the shitsack mold of Rahm.

Call us fucktards a few more times and even that "pragmatic" approach may come to be near impossible.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I didn't think so.
:thumbsup:
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JustAnotherGen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'm not staying home
:rofl: I'm trying to get an R booted! But I think the 'return' to slavery is hyperbole - but it's hyperbole that could work. . . Look, after screaming how people who wantED reform to health care system are socialists? Slavers is appropo slap right back at them.
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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. What's the worst that could happen?
Nothing. I have one national race to vote in and one state race to vote in that actually matter. Rep. Sarbanes isn't losing and if Gov. O'Malley loses to the likes of Bob Ehrlich it's only because he's a fathead who ran an awful campaign.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Apathy and despair---two powerful right wing weapons of mass destruction
"What can my single vote accomplish? I'll just stay home x A Million Voters = Newt's Congress all over again

Come on. Tell me Newt was not so bad. Tell me Pelosi is the same as Newt.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
70. Pelosi is worse than Newt
At least Newt didnt take "Impeachment of the Table".

They are both idiots, as are the majority of people in CongrAss and the house.

This whole Us versu them Meme is useless when the country is in the throes of collapse.

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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
22. Pardon my ignorance, but I thought it was the 13th Amendment that
banned slavery, not 14th.
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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Yes, but the talk is about repealing the 14th.
You're correct, the 13th Amendment states that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." But there's a truly disconcerting amount of talk in the Republican party about repealing or altering the 14th, mostly to get rid of birthright citizenship, and I'd imagine to do something about those pesky "privileges and immunities" and "equal protection" clauses, which would essentially create two separate and unequal classes of citizens.

Incidentally, you know who else likes to talk about the evils of the 14th Amendment? Sovereign Citizens, militia types, and white supremacists.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
82. Speaking of "two separate and unequal classes of citizens"
isn't the 14th what corporate personhood is (wrongly) based on?

I could almost be in favor of the repeal if I thought we could use it to rein in the corporate behemoths.

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nemo137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #82
92. There's no reason to be for the appeal of the 14th. At all.
"Let's accomplish X by joining with people who want to accomplish Y*, and hope for the best" is never a good idea. But, yes. Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad held that legal persons like corporations are entitled to 14th Amendment rights.

*Where Y is something completely incompatible with any kind of decent society
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
28.  Take a quote, twist it, and then attack. Talk about Faux!!!
Limbaugh would be proud of this!

No one called anyone a retard, and the sad part of all of this
is that you know this......but you want to use it.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. What about "using the word “retarded” to describe liberals" is not clear to you?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. Well......
The President and Rahm have gotten called all kind of names.....
and that was done before and since Rahm made the comment!
Thank goodness they have thick skin and a goal beyond
being mad and insulted.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #48
71. Yeah, now send 100,000 more trops to Afganistan and threaten Iran
Yep, their skin is so fucking thick that they can't even hear their constituants anymore. Oh wait, their Constituents are Big Oil, the Military Industrial Complex, Monsanto, and the Banksters that enable them.. Never mind.
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #48
78. In other words, you've got nothing and this is an exercise in masturbatory excuse making. n/t
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Um... some unkind things were said, but not that unkind. Want to provide a link?
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 07:55 PM by McCamy Taylor
Maybe you are refering to the episode in which a political strategy was called "fucking retarded" and the MSM played Divide and Conquer by insisting that the left was called "fucking retards." There is a big diffirence there.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Here is what the poster is talking about
Chief of Staff Draws Fire From Left as Obama Falters

<snip>

The friction was laid bare in August when Mr. Emanuel showed up at a weekly strategy session featuring liberal groups and White House aides. Some attendees said they were planning to air ads attacking conservative Democrats who were balking at Mr. Obama's health-care overhaul.

"F—ing retarded," Mr. Emanuel scolded the group, according to several participants. He warned them not to alienate lawmakers whose votes would be needed on health care and other top legislative items.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703808904575025030384695158.html

To me it doesn't matter if he used the term to describe the group or the actions. When not used in diagnosing or describing someone diagnosis, it is a pejorative term that should not be used.

I'll be fair and point out he apologized 6 months later after making the remarks.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/emanuel-apologizes-in-wake-of-palin-slam/
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. He apologized 6 months later, but not to the people he was bashing.
He apologized to the cognitively disabled, for using a pejorative term that devalues THEM.

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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Yep. TY
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 08:31 PM by Cherchez la Femme
for that clarification.


Looks like #28 was banned for a good reason
--my Blood Pressure! LOL--
and so s/he may remain there, although a few once upon my list have finally woken teh F* up! :D


edit: I often wonder how people, especially those who seem to be on this board constantly, can be so out of touch with what doesn't fit their worldview? Groupthink isn't only for Repukes, I guess
...or is it just selective memory? :shrug:
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
64. *sigh* NOT 'banned' -- I meant 'on Ignore'
Sorry if there was any misunderstanding, I didn't mean to mislead.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #45
73. Selective memory only helps those afraid of the truth.
Corporations use it all the time.

Most of the time, it is selective inclusion of facts that only support their opinion, while omitting reality entirely so they can rewrite history later on.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #38
52. The President's Chief of Staff is Eddie Haskell.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. I dunno...
...even Eddie Haskell acted nice to the adults & the 'rents. Seems to me that Rahm just is nasty all the livelong day to whomever happens to be next to him...
Of course I have no proof of this, but I'll bet you he doesn't hold back even to those 'more senior', as it were, to him.


Wow!
The first time I've ever disagreed with any of your posts;
and that in jest & all over poor, misunderestimated Eddie Haskell! LOL
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. LOL! We've had a breakthrough!
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 10:41 PM by EFerrari
:hi:

/oops
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I don't expect it to last... *sigh*
tomorrow I'll be back to agreeing 100% with you :cry:



:evilgrin:
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #25
46. Thinking that you can ignore the consequences of Republican victory is unwise.
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 08:27 PM by LoZoccolo
Doesn't matter if you compare it to Fox News or anything else.

Unless you care to tell us what will really happen instead.
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I looked into my crystal ball today
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 08:39 PM by Cherchez la Femme
seriously, I did

& all it did was act like a magnifying glass and concentrate the sun on my skin
much like sick fuck kids do to torture insects & animals

I have no idea what's going to happen.
But, I REPEAT, I will not vote for anyone who
1) Doesn't support my ideals (because they don't HAVE any!), or
2) Have maliciously and with will called me 'fucking retarded'.

What don't you get about me proving myself "retarded" (their word) by voting for those who have so maligned me and my fellows?

What??



Jeebus!
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
89. Did Rahm come to your house and call you a fucking retard?
Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 06:16 PM by Arkana
No, he did not.

Did he address a crowd of which you were a part and call all of you fucking retards? No, he did not.

Did he broadcast on the news that all Democrats and those of the liberal persuasion are fucking retards? No, he did not.

Did he lose his temper (wow, the famously short-tempered Rahm Emanuel has a short temper! Gasp!) at a closed-door White House meeting and call a STRATEGY devised by MoveOn "fucking retarded?" YES. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED.

EARTH TO ANGRY BRIGADE: RAHM EMANUEL DID NOT INSULT YOU PERSONALLY. HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE. HE OVERREACTED IN A MEETING WITH MOVEON.ORG. GET. THE. FUCK. OVER. IT.
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U4ikLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #89
99. "HE DOES NOT EVEN KNOW WHO YOU ARE." That is the problem.
They DON"T know who we are, and don't really care.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. I always vote. I'll be voting for the most progressive, anti-war, candidates on my ballot.
Even if I have to write them in.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Yep.
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 08:16 PM by LWolf
What the fear-mongers need to do, if they are worried that our votes actually DO matter, is to work to make sure candidates that are worthy of votes show up on the ballot, so we don't have to write them in.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
35. I'm so afraid.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
37. III Apears to be a DLC Led Democratic Goal as well as a GOP Goal. eom
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. Dems can do fear as well as anyone... smells of desperation to me...
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. yeah... sad.
I normally respect the OP and recommend their posts, but I could not recommend this thread in good conscience.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
87. +1
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
41. I vote progressive in the primaries. . .
but whether or not that candidate makes it past the primary, I will almost ALWAYS vote Democrat in the general election. The alternative is a thousand times worse.

:kick:
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Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. I just wonder...
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 08:42 PM by Cherchez la Femme
I wonder where that DinahMoe's coming from??
(I won't type out the next line :D
:hi:


on edit: Sorry, I bet you get that all the time...
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #49
94. Actually, I don't get it that much. . .
But I spot the Frank Zappa fans from it!

:evilgrin:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
53. if the Right got rid of birthright citizens then: immediately arrest Gov Arnie
whether current or former & charge him with tresspassing, fraud, stea;ing elections, etc. Same with any other "foreigner", like........dual citizenships?

Looks like theyy're goiing for failed States, already have some failed cities, I'd upside down their upside down, since they all seem to come from Bizzarro World. Generally & implicitly.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cherchez la Femme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Excellent!
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 10:59 PM by Cherchez la Femme
:applause:
Wish I was on my computer so I could save that!

He's done some good things, but not near the weight of the negative (IMHO of course). I'd love to see a scorecard of the primary/pre-election promises given but when in office, we got the opposite (Fierce Advocate, Transparency, Public Option/Single Payer, close Guanatanamo, bring home a battalion a month starting with the first month, repeal NAFTA, etc. etc. etc.)
I truly never expected that much on the liberal end, but not nothing and insults!

In any event, I surely expected much more than what he's "given" us!
It all feels like chump-Change

and that Hope long ago turned into the thing with feathers... :(
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. Disaster Messaging in High Gear - What's the worst that could happen?
Here is some very scary shit - if you don't vote for the right person, this could happen!!!!! Be warned !!!!

-Government will force us to buy insurance in a massive transfer of money to CEO pockets while doing ZERO to hold down escalating costs and reduced benefits and leave loopholes that allow discrimination based on "life style" choices (i.e. we are refusing coverage because you made a lifestyle choice to live in a high cancer area).

-We will massively escalate one of our two wars in Asia while keeping the embers glowing in the other.

-CIA and military and contractors will be allowed to torture without fear of prosecution.

-The Gulf of Mexico will be sold to BP for $20 billion and promise not to prosecute them for their crimes.

-We will promise India and Fortune 500 that outsourcing will continue to low wage/low skill unregulated labor markets (while sending them foreign aide, fucking priceless)

-We will promise India that we'll streamline H1Bs.

-We will send a few trillion dollars to Wall Street with ZERO FUCKING ACCOUNTABILITY and tell people the benefits will trickle down one day.

-Schools privatized and teachers replaced with low pay/low skill "guest" workers from other countries.

- We'll put a fucking price tag on human decency and dignity and sell it to Asia for pennies on the dollar.

- We will create a massive spying infrastructure to catalog e-mails and phone calls and sort through, with giant computer programs that determine if you are a good American or bad American.

How about that? Totally scary shit.

DO YOU WANT THIS TO HAPPEN? HUH? DO YOU?

OH MY GOD, IT IS HAPPENING !!!!!

Centrists stay just the tiniest bit to the left of total fascism so they can claim the "high" road. Both parties are going there - republicans go straight in for the kill, democrats like to tease you first.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #67
77. K&R - You can't argue with that doomsday scenario.
Especially since it isn't a dream but the reality of what this Administration has accomplished in less than 2 years. Heck, they did most of that in the first 6 months...

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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #67
83. Another thing:
We will look forward instead of prosecuting war criminals, even if they go on TV & brag about it.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

Great post, scentopine!
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
68. I think a lot of the democrats will hold their noses and
vote for the "lesser of two evils."

They won't be donating their money, or joining phone banks, or knocking on doors to shill for their chosen candidate. Demoralize the troops and they might still vote for you, but they won't be energized to bring in the people around them who might forget to vote or who need educated on the issues.

Which is better one democratic vote (one disaffected voter) or eleven democratic votes (the voter and ten undecideds)?

Q3JR4.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #68
86. Yours is the most critical point in this thread!
Which is better one democratic vote (one disaffected voter) or eleven democratic votes (the voter and ten undecideds)?

:applause:




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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
69. What Will Happen Is a Lot of Opportunitistic Apple Carts Will Be Overturned
and the US will finally finish its Revolution. The first part(1776) took out the monarchy. The second part(1864) took out slavery. The third and final part will take out the Corporations and the Obscenely Wealthy, and only 50 years overdue...
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Defectata Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
72. remember the definition of insanity?
doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....

If we always roll over and cave in to people who aren't delivering on their promises to fight for our causes instead of merely paying lip service to them, if we ignore the fact that their most bitter vitriol is reserved for us instead of the opposition who has fillibustered more legislation than any previous senate, what reason will they ever have to fear us?

and before you jump on me for the fear comment, fear of political ramifications is the only equivalent of respect in politics.

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Tuesday Afternoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
75. I will not stay home. I hope that votes are counted correctly.
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
80. I am a Disgruntled Liberal
Look bottom line Our leaders that is people that espouse to believe the same things as we do, have been in charge of the CONGRESS since January 2007. In 2008 with the election of a Democratic President and coat tails sweeps that thickened the majorities in both houses you would have thought that this Congress was unstoppable. That a true Progressive agenda would have been implemented but no, no, no, thats not what happened what we got is more war and half measures on domestic priorities. All this talk about Republicans stopped the legislation is garbage. If the Legislation was good it would have sold itself and the American People would have accepted it enmasse.

My none vote is a protest vote, why should our party suffer the consequences of this failure when it was the repukes that created the mess. We have been unsuccesful at cleaning it up and the petulent children on the right keep throwing things on floor, so screw it.... I am much better at playing on Offense then trying to defend half measures and things that I just plain don't believe in.

Truth be told, Obama scewed the pooch on this one. I will not enable it anylonger.

Historically, (i.e., Clinton) a Republican Congress may be just what Obama needs to get his mojo back.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
81. Put it in (D) to go forward
Do not put it in (R) unless you want to go backwards.

Sounds like a good summary.
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KakistocracyHater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
84. It's just a guess, but this tactic is now DEAD
*
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mcollins Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
85. Right now I don't see much difference between
the right and left in Washington. Here in Colorado there is a clear choice- in DC? I'm not sure.
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Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
88. But...but Gibbs directed a vague insult in my direction!
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
90. Oh, I'm not staying home -- I'm voting for people of principle who share my goals.
By definition, that eliminates all Republicans... and by this point, most Democrats.

I'm probably the kind of person those like you might WANT to stay home, since I'm not going to hold my nose and vote against my conscience anymore. My votes won't likely help the Dems, certainly won't enable the Repubs, and probably won't mean much in the end.

But I'm voting. Just not the way your fear-mongering suggests. Sorry.

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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
93. Shit, Democrats are neck deep in half our more of that
and will be more than willing as always to work out some fucked up deal that is near as bad on birthright citizenship to you know, get beyond the same old tired debates and divisions that have kept us from moving forward blah...blah...blah.



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Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
95. I'm voting my principles, which don't include responding to fear
War...
Corporatism...
Loss of liberty...
Lack of due process...
Extrajudicial executions...
War crimes...
Empire...

These are what we retards on the Left call "bad things."
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
96. Good post
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-10-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
97. K & R!
Great post!
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