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If America had a vibrant middle class, with progressively upward sliding wages...

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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:25 PM
Original message
Poll question: If America had a vibrant middle class, with progressively upward sliding wages...
A strong manufacturing base, manned by unionize workers, a truly progessive tax code and a strong social contract based safety net, would we suffer as great a recession as we are today?
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:30 PM
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1. Cannot vote because of an ad across the answer categories.
No, we would not suffer as badly as we are.
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:35 PM
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jdp349 Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:33 PM
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2. Ideologically the answer is yes, the honest answer is I don't know
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. Depends on what you mean by "progressively upward sliding wages", but probably, yeah.
Edited on Mon Aug-09-10 03:59 PM by Nicholas D Wolfwood
I see no reason why we wouldn't. Market forces outside the U.S. would still have a great impact on our society. Say Japan and China get into a catastrophic war with one another, for example. Those are two of the top 4 destinations for our exported goods. Regardless of the social contract in place here in the United States, we would see a precipitous drop in demand for our products, and that would spark a major recession.

Beyond that, like it or not, what you'd unquestionably be doing is increasing the cost per worker for any company. The more it costs to hire someone, the greater the hesitation a company would endure before doing so - it really doesn't matter what the reasons for that hesitation are, that is a fact of life. Furthermore, that reduces the overall number of people that could be employed by the private sector unless you in turned dramatically increased our GDP, as resources for most companies outside of the unbelievably profitable ones are limited. Even in the most altruistic of companies, if they don't have the assets to pay all 500 employees a minimum of, say, $50,000 per year, they can't do it. That means you'd struggle to find jobs for a lot of people, which would lead to maybe having a vibrant middle class, but definitely a devastated, much larger lower class. Finally, unless you enforced our social contract around the world, there would clearly be greater incentive for companies to further outsource labor, again, reducing the overall number of employed people.

What you're describing may indeed work well in a good economy and might do well to safeguard against a downturn in the first place. However, a major global event could still plunge us into deep recession, and it would take longer and hit harder when that happens.

All in my opinion only, but I don't think it's anywhere near as simple as you're making it out to be.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. The missing operative word is "upward" nt
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That really doesn't change my argument one iota.
Apologies for the title typo, but the point remains the same, and I believe the context is rather reflective of that.
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MrScorpio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You've made some excellent points
It's apparent that I'm no economist
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 04:11 PM
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8. A definite "NO". Germany fits those criteria and their recession was quite mild. n/t
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-09-10 04:13 PM
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9. Add "trade surplus" to that for a 100% "No"
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