Matt Cooper on "double super secret background" (PT 10)

[H2O Man]

" 'Chance' is a word devoid of sense; nothing can exist without a cause." -- Voltaire

Today should be a fascinating chapter in the Scooter Libby trial. Judith Miller is scheduled to finish her testimony. She has done more damage to Libby's defense than we might have expected. There was interesting analysis of this on MSNBC's Hardball and Countdown last night. David Shuster continues to provide the best reporting on the implications of each witness's testimony.

Also of great interest was the reporting on Judith Miller's attitude on the stand, provided by the blogging at firedoglake. Jurors take note of the physical world within the courtroom, including the mannerisms of the judge, the attorneys, and perhaps especially the witness. I suspect that everything Judith does is scripted.

Matthew Cooper from TIME will also be testifying today, unless the Miller business is not completed. Cooper presents a different type of journalist: where Judith is easy to dislike, Matthew is a man that comes across as nice, easy-going, and everyone's friend. While one instinctively dislikes Judith, it is difficult to dislike Matt. Thus, though the jurors are unlikely to be offended by the defense attorneys hammering Miller, they have to be more careful with Cooper.

There are two main areas of interest in his potential testimony. They have to do with the testimony he provided the grand jury in the two times he testified. Each is detailed in "exclusive" articles in Time: "What I Told the Grand Jury" (7-25-05) deals largely with his interaction with Karl Rove; and "What Scooter Libby and I Talked About" (11-7-05) tells about his interaction with Scooter Libby.

"Spoke to Rove on double super secret background .... his big warning ... don't get too far out on Wilson.... Wilson's wife, who apparently works at the agency on wmd issues, who authorized the trip...," read an e-mail that Cooper sent his supervisor moments after speaking to Karl on July 11, 2003. Cooper writes in his article that "we went over this in microscopic, excruciating detail, which may someday prove relevant..." It seems likely that "someday" may be today, as Team Libby will attempt to use Cooper to build their foundation that Karl should be on trial today, rather than poor Scooter.

In his second "exclusive," Cooper describes his discussions with Libby. He tells of his discussion with Scooter about the Wilson issue, including the part about Plame. And he describes his attempting to get Libby's permission to "tell the truth about our conversation. Libby told me that he used to be a lawyer and that 'to be safe' our attorneys should talk and if it was O.K. with them, it was O.K. with him." Cooper did testify about the Libby conversation.

"I was surprised last week that the Libby indictment even mentioned me. But apparently his recollection of the conversation differed from mine in a way that led the prosecutor to think he was lying. As for me, I still have no idea if Libby or anyone else has committed a crime. I only know that if there is a Libby trial, I'll testify truthfully and completely, as I did before the grand jury."

Team Libby will attempt to highlight a difference between one of Cooper's "rough drafts" and his final article on part of the case. They need to be careful not to press him too hard. And they need to keep in mind that Libby himself had "called to rebuke (Cooper) for not having used the full quote in the piece."

[rosesaylavee]

1. For a minute I thought

you used the 'double super secret' phrase in a 'dark humor' sort of way. Way to go Matt. :eyes: Do you think he still wears his decoder ring?

[H2O Man]

4. "decoder ring"!

That's it! Just as Miller is a scripted package, Cooper is, too. His strength is that he reminds us of the kid we all liked in jr. high school, who was mildly goofy, and wore that decoder ring. And when this "kid" is a journalist, then people feel comfortable and drop their guard.

And that's a tough kind of witness for attorneys to have to try to hammer. If they are mean to that "kid," the jurors are going to resent it.

Matt Cooper is a very intelligent man.

[Jacobin]

23. o-v-a-l-t-i-n-e

:rofl:

[KharmaTrain]

2. Look At All Those Aspens...

H2O Man...another great set-up for today's fun. Thank-you for all your posts.

So far, all the witnesses could be considered on the "hostile" side for the Prosecution...Cooper offers Fitz a ton of credibility on the stand that will all but nail Scooter on the lying charges and well on his way to a conviction. Remember, it was Cooper's turning that really got this show rolling...when Karl freed Cooper to talk that forced Libby to do the same for Miller. It also sets up the surreal circus that surely will be Rove's testimony that I suspect will happen next week.

Now we've had 3 witnesses say Scooter lied...with a 4th all set to go and Team Libby doing a very poor job in impeaching the testimony so far. Even Miller came off somewhat credible...and exposed herself as the stenographer we knew she was. I'm waiting for all those appologies from Judy's defenders (Lou Doobies, I'm looking right at you) who felt she was some journalistic martyr when she was stonewalling this investigation to protect Libby.

One thing that's all but escaped most discussion here...the revelation of a note in Libby's handwriting presented by David Addington that was another direct indication crashcart was pulling all the string here. Seems while the evidence for one trial is being presented, evidence for the next one is being accumulated.

Cheers...

[H2O Man]

6. One of the things

that I really enjoy is how the selection of witnesses keeps the trial moving at a pace that will keep the jurors interested and paying close attention. I think we can anticipate the defense will attempt to put on a slower, confusing, and boring show. It seems safe to say that the jury will favor Mr. Fitzgerald's presentation.

[KharmaTrain]

8. Being A Former Juror I Can Relate

I sat in on a Federal trial several years ago and it was one of the most fascinating adventures in my life. It was a case where I had a pre-determined opinion on the subject of the trial that changed as I saw the testimony and then applied it directly to the charges and the laws involved. A lot is, as you say, keeping the witnesses alert and involved...and a lot of that has to go to the judge.

Ya gotta figured that Judy didn't have a restful night as she's was being asked to give up sources yesterday when the judge called it a night. His ruling could be the most fun we have all day.

Presentation means a great deal. There's a fine line between being credible and being rehearsed. Also a fine line between not being able to remember out of being human and not being able to remember to cover up what they really know. The blogging of the trial has really helped me get a taste of that fine line.

Cheers...

:hi:

[malaise]

58. Fitzgerald is a genius

He has laid this out brilliantly and beautifully. I'm lovin it. Thanks as usual.

[H2O Man]

68. It is

outstanding.

[Alamom]

3. Thank you. This is going better than we dared to hope...right?

Incredible material for many, many books & movies, non-fiction and fictional spinoffs.....



Thanks again. This is better than my coffee fix every morning and I LUV COFFEE. :)

[H2O Man]

7. The case is

moving in the direction that we expected Mr. Fitzgerald to take it. The country is being exposed to the difference between an honest, competent government official who trusts the public with the truth, and the dishonest, incompetent White House officials who were willing to break the law to hide the truth from the public.

[mmonk]

5. K&R

[H2O Man]

9. Cheney Soprano

WASHINGTON — If you’ve been following the Lewis “Scooter” Libby perjury trial, I can understand how you might confuse Dick Cheney with Tony Soprano. Cheney’s office is beginning to sound a lot like the Bada Bing, minus the dancers.

Court has been in session only for a week, and already we’ve heard about characters being set up (Libby, allegedly, to save political wizard Karl Rove), strung along (media bigwigs, who were to be played like patsies), buried in mud (former ambassador Joseph Wilson, who questioned the raison d’etre of the Iraq War) and ratted out (the famously leak-averse Cheney, revealed to be willing to leak like a washerless faucet when it suits his purposes).

Cheney’s no Tony, though. For one thing, Tony would never let one of his top henchmen go by a preppy-sounding handle like “Scooter.” For another, this kind of all-in-the-family mess would send Tony moping to his long-suffering shrink, whereas Cheney shows no inclination to deal with uncomfortable issues or face harsh realities.

Increasingly, the vice president is sounding as if he lives in a la-la land of his own imagining, a place beyond truth .......





http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070131/OPINION/70130035/1049

[H2O Man]

10. Corn on Miller ...

Libby Trial: Judy Miller's Memory Mess
From my "Capital Games" column at www.thenation.com....

When special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald was prepping for the trial of Scooter Libby, he probably looked toward the moment when he would call former New York Times reporter Judith Miller to the stand and thought, We're just going to have to get through that day.

Miller, the controversial journalist whose prewar reporting hyped the WMD threat posed by Iraq, was called as a prosecution witness on Tuesday, and she was pummeled by Bill Jeffress, an attorney for Libby, who has been charged with making false statements to the FBI and grand jury investigating the CIA leak.

Initially, Fitzgerald briskly guided Miller through her account--a story already publicly known. On June 23, 2003, she met with Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, in the Old Executive Office Building next to the White House. Libby was frustrated and angry about media accounts--some fueled by intelligence community leaks--that suggested the Bush White House had misrepresented the prewar WMD intelligence. He was particularly upset, according to Miller, about stories that had appeared regarding an unnamed ex-ambassador who had taken a trip to Niger in 2002 to investigate the allegation that Iraq had tried to buy uranium there and who had concluded the charge was unfounded. Libby told Miller the former diplomat was Joseph Wilson and said, as an aside, that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. In her notes, Miller wrote that the wife was employed at the "bureau," a reference to a nonproliferation office within the CIA. She said that this was the first time she had heard anything about Wilson's wife working at the CIA. She also testified that Libby referred to Wilson's trip as a "ruse" and "irrelevancy." .......



http://www.davidcorn.com/

[mmonk]

80. It's amazing to read the responses that Libby should walk.

[Patsy Stone]

11. I have a question

From the 7/13 press gaggle, and from the Ari exchange Flyarm posted at the end of the last thread, it seems that even on the day Ari "mentioned" this to David Gregory by the side of the road (supposedly -- since we still haven't heard from Gregory), Gregory was asking them aggressively about Niger, Wilson's trip, etc. (Most of the answers start with "David".) Assuming that was Gregory he was talking to, why would Ari later have chosen him to give the "wife" info? Was it bad judgment? He knew David wasn't buying the "NIE had the 16 words" story. Shouldn't he have given this to a less dogged reporter? Or was this supposed to make him search somewhere else, go away, and "leave them alone"?

K&R! Good morning.

[H2O Man]

13. I assume

that he told David Gregory precisely for that reason -- his doggedness.

[Me.]

16. Funny That Gregory Hasn't Been Called

Why?

[Spazito]

32. Since Ari's testimony and Dickerson's subsequent article...

I found it interesting that David Gregory's name isn't anywhere to be found on:

Any of the subpoenaes issued by the DOJ, etc

Neither of the witness lists, prosecution or defense


We do know that subsequent to the list I have found (link below) that Rove and others have been subpoenaed by the defense, was or will David Gregory be one of those given the conflict between Ari's testimony and Dickerson's version?

Link to witness list as per January 15, 2007:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/10753573/detail.html

[H2O Man]

The DoJ would not

call him. His information is not directly related to Libby, and thus is not part of the prosecution's case. It is possible that the defense would consider calling him, though again, his role is tangential to the charges against Scooter. If the defense is looking to impeach Fleischer's testimony, he would not be the journalist they would likely use.

[Spazito]

45. I confess I am not clear as to why you feel the defense would

not be interested in what Gregory's memory is regarding that conversation if his memory correlated more with what Dickerson remembered than what Ari testified to. Is it that you don't feel Ari's testimony is harmful enough to Libby for the defense to focus some of their attention in trying to impeach his credibility?

I read an earlier post of yours re Gregory and why the WH would not have had him on their list of go-to reporters because of his aggressive questioning of the Administration and your response made eminent sense to me so am I on the right track in thinking you feel the defense would not want to call Gregory because he is not seen as sympathetic to the Libby/Admin side?

[H2O Man]

47. Mr. Gregory's testimony

would confirm Ari Fleischer's. Team Libby is not looking for that type of testimony.

[Spazito]

48. No doubt, in that case Mr. Gregory would be the LAST person

they would want to see in the witness chair wrt Ari's testimony. Thanks, H20 Man, for your quick response and for your very insightful threads, I very much appreciate them and look forward to their appearance.

[H2O Man]

49. This is fun.

The discussons of the on-going case, and speculation about possible future actions, is a pleasure. There is a great core group of old-time Plame Thread participants, as well as newer members here on DU. And this trial is like a reward for our having faith that the truth would eventually surface.

[loudsue]

73. Some of us haven't participated in quite a long time,

but I, for one, am, nevertheless, glued to my computer when one of your threads appears.

You beat anything I've ever seen, Waterman, and it's such a pleasure keeping up with your writing.

Hugs from the lurking section.

:kick::kick::kick:

[H2O Man]

78. Thank you.

I appreciate that people enjoy reading these threads.

[kohodog]

88. It's been a long time coming

Between work, FDL and your posts it's tough to find time to respond!

I don't know what the ramifications will be for Cheney, Bush and Rove, but for anyone paying attention they have been shown to be worthy of jail/impeachment/resignation.

I will gladly accept any one of those three.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :toast:

[Patsy Stone]

21. Thanks.

Personally, if I'm trying to float a false story, Gregory, as such a critic, would be the last person I'd want digging around. If he did find out any info from the CIA (since they wanted him to "ask the Agency"), and it contradicted the "official story", or added more questions, wouldn't they, in effect, be shooting themselves in the foot? I guess the idea was to get the "wife" out, but they left themselves open to David's tenacity.

I don't know, I just don't get it (which is par for the course these days. :))

Also, did you happen to notice that one of the GJ subpoenas was specifically for documents from the WHIG group for most of July 2003 (http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/exhibits/0129/GX06201.PDF)?

Kinda makes ya wonder what else Fitz got in that haul, huh?

[Me.]

12. Previous Plame Threads

Research Forum & Threads 1,2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x192

Rosesaylavee has done a fantastic job of posting the Plame threads in the Research Forum.

also:

The Relative Deprivation of Dick Cheney

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x47102


Plame thread #9 Judith Miller & the "many dark actors"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x79653

[rosesaylavee]

82. :)

Now that I've gotten the hang of it, and when I have time later this week, am going to start up a special corner in the Research Forum for impeaching Mr. Cheney.

[Octafish]

14. Newsmag is doing gangbusters...

Perhaps the Libby trial testimony will open up some leads for Congressional investigation.

They might be able to get testimony, documents and evidence that Ashcroft and Gonzales made off-limits to Fitzgerald.

Either way, thanks to you H20 Man, the map of Aspen has become much more accurate.

Yours is a roadmap of Treason, Big Time.

[H2O Man]

15. It would seem

that this trial has made it clear that Congress has to investigate -- and indeed impeach -- VP Cheney.

[in_cog_ni_to]

24. H20 Man, after all that's come out about Cheney's involvement in this, do you think

he will testify if called? I don't know how he can. He will be under oath this time. He will have to LIE his way through and that means PERJURY. Do you think he'll actually take the stand?

Thanks for the post! I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[H2O Man]

33. Good question.

This is such a strange case, that nothing would surprise me. Regarding Cheney: the way I understand it, there was a point in time where, had Libby simply made a plea deal, and taken the blame, it was possible that the president would have eventually granted him a pardon. But the president did not want the "cancer to spread," to borrow an old Watergate era phrase. There may have been a sticking point, in that both Mr. Eckenrode and Mr. Fitzgerald (and staffs) knew VP Cheney was an active participant. Somewhere along the line, Libby determined that he couldn't accept the deal being offered. Thus the trial. It seems safe to say that the president is extremely unhappy that the trial is bringing the information out about the OVP/WHIG. While I'm not saying that there is a serious fracture between Bush and Cheney, it seems clear that this scandal is being pushed into the OVP.

Now, about testifying: it's worth noting that Libby lied first to the investigators, and second to the grand jury, before being charged. It may be that Cheney, who lied to investigators, will also lie to the jury in this case. I am confident that if he does, there will be a consequence.

[in_cog_ni_to]

38. "Cheney will lie to investigators." IF he does, surely Fitz will catch him in those lies and

it will be FUN to see what happens after that.:) What happens if Cheney chooses NOT to testify? He's on the witness list. If he's subpoenaed and refuses to testify, what happens then? CAN HE refuse to testify without consequences?

[H2O Man]

39. Not at this point.

He already has agreed to participate in the trial. Hard to imagine him pleading the 5th. He has that strange flavor about him in the past few years, which has become more pronounced .... I keep thinking of the thing about Scooter comparing Cheney to Churchill .... and I think that we'll see Cheney trying to get over on the witness stand. It will be one of the most curious events in recent history.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. That makes sense. He's probably thinking, "I've lied my way through the last

6+ years, no one can stop me now. I'm invincible. I'm the VP." Ah yes. This will be VERY entertaining. I wonder if Cheney knows who he's dealing with in Patrick Fitzgerald?:rofl: His arrogance won't let him see Fitz for who he is, I'm sure.

:popcorn:

[cassiepriam]

94. Cheny is so nasty I can't imagine he will cut a sympathetic figure to the jury.

But they may be dazzled by his title?

[Me.]

62. I Think That After The Testimony Of The Last Several Days

It is becoming clear that there were such tensions. I find it interesting that at one point I Liar might have had a life preserver thrown to him, but couldn't take it because of loyalty to I Liar Cheney. Do you think * knew back then, was fully informed about what was going on?

[H2O Man]

64. No.

I think that there is a built-in republican tactic of not telling the president things he shouldn't hear. However, Bush had a pretty clear idea what was going on. Consider the NIE: Cheney told Libby to share it with journalists, then to stop, and then he "suggested" Bush declassify it. This suggests that Cheney was acting without Bush's awareness at various times.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

35. Everything leads back to him. The "discovery" of Plame's identity, the effort to publicly exonerate

Libby via McClellan, and BTW, how did get the information about Plame to begin with?

MKJ

[H2O Man]

17. It sounds like

Team Libby wants to ask Judith about some of the other scandals she is involved in. Are people reading the coverage on firedoglake? It's fascinating!

[Me.]

18. Move Along

Islamic Charity case brought up, though they say she's not being investigated. I hope the word to follow that is yet.

From FDL:

“Wells, In the last paragraph of this morning' New York Times, there's a statement that Fitzgerald is investigating Ms. Miller, the government has contended that Islamic charities tipped. She is not the subject or target of an investigation. But what I would like to do is–I believe we're going to want some discovery on this issue, to the extent that she could have been viewed as a subject, if that was viewed as intentional in any way, that would be an area that we'll make inquiry of. I've just read it, and I'd like to put the court on notice, we are going to ask for some discovery on it.



Fitz: With all due respect, the only thing new is an inaccuracy, she's never been a target or subject. We did not subpoena any reporter at NYT. Open record, lots of press attention on it. There's nothing new here, other than the story characterized her as being under investigation.

Wells: As I said, I just talked to Fitz, he indicated to me that there were letters to the Times, neither Miss Miller nor the Times were subjects of the investigation. "A very reputable paper has stated that there was an investigation." That is certainly something we'd like to explore on cross-examination. I'm just putting the court on notice.

Fitz: so the record is clear, info on that investigation has been public for a long time, there's ample information in public record.”

[TacticalPeek]

20. That NYT article:

Last graph:

"Mr. Fitzgerald is investigating Ms. Miller in an unrelated case involving Islamic charities. The government has contended that calls from reporters tipped off the charities to impending federal raids and asset seizures."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/31/washington/31libby.html?hp&ex=1170306000&en=4abd0f1b7056947a&ei=5094&partner=homepage


The authors must not have checked with Fitzgerald.

[Me.]

31. I Was Surprised/Confused To See That In The Trial

For as far as I know Fitzgerald tried to get the phone records of JM and finally got them on appeal. Now if they were her phone records, then presumably she made the calls. The only thing I can think is he got the records and saw no call from her to the charity. I hope he checked her cell and home records.

JM is also involved in the AIPAC case, so I'm wondering if she'll be called to testify in that trial. I wish Walton was the judge for that one as Ellis is not doing such a hot job so far.

[Pithy Cherub]

19. The whiff of desperation is getting stronger for Team Libby

as Scooter can't dismiss this as idle gossip. Personally, I am lookng forward to Tim Russert's testimony on being an administration shill.

What is happening is a picture of the media is evolving and the media itself is ashamed by their own supposed best & brightest. Miller just eviscerated NYT's credibility yesterday with her cheap gall at saying she didn't read it, but she read the competition. Snicker.

But she remembered Scooter's agitation on seperate occassions. That was key for more than what people are noting - it goes to Scooter's frame of mind which is needed for a charge under IIPA. That is a reason Jefress took off after her so badly and wants additional sources - they need to know are there contemporaneous witnesses out there before further charges from Fitz or answering charges in a civil trial. The hush-hush, double super secret, QT and aspens turning mentions all go to state of mind too. Fitz's comment about needing cot if this trial debates the Iraq War is an oblique hint too - he didn't say he wouldn't just what they would all need if the scope was broadened. It's also a squeeze play on Cheney because he is the day to day boss that can speak to Libby's demeanor and duties. Scooter is learning the hard way use the corporate pajamas media die by the corporate pajamas media.

Ok off to catch up, its early here on the Left Coast!

[Straight Shooter]

22. ...if there is a Libby trial, I'll testify truthfully and completely, as I did before the grand jury

Now, there's a nicely packaged self-serving statement if I've ever seen one.

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

25. firedoglake servers have gone down 8:50PST

I stopped refreshing and closed the window - they only have two techs on staff, and have been having trouble since being mentioned on CNN yesterday - 20,000 hits per hour - I might give it a rest until later this afternoon...

[mod mom]

27. Damn, I jusr noticed I couldn't get back on. They will be breaking for lunch

soon, so let's hope all is up and going by then. Very riveting!

[spanone]

26. 'double super-secret background' sounds like Animal House talk to me.

Thanks for the recap H2O Man. Keep up the great work.

[DemReadingDU]

28. Emptywheel is Blogging on DailyKos

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/31/115545/291

[robertpaulsen]

29. K & R! Should be an interesting day!

:kick:

[antigop]

30. Hey,everyone -- thanks!

I can't follow this as closely as all of you have been able to.

Many thanks for your insight, commentary, analysis -- especially to H2O Man. It's been an education and I thank all of you.

[Patsy Stone]

34. My nominee for Golden Nugget of the Day:

"Call Tim," Mary Matalin, he hates Chris, he needs to know it all.

Well, who knew? :shrug:

[Patsy Stone]

36. Dick managing the message.

So, Addington tells Libby about Plame on June 11/12 (as that Waas article said and testimony confirmed). Libby tells Judy on June 23, July 8, and July 12. Scooter supposedly doesn't tell Cheney about Plame between June 11 and July 14th (until the Novak article -- almost a month later), when Cheney then supposedly digs out the Wilson July 6th Op-Ed (a week later!) and writes those questions on it.

Thus, I think that Cheney's scrawled questions to Scooter on the Op-Ed weren't what he wanted to "know" (although Libby thought he could sell that story to Fitz) but were, in fact, the first time Cheney writes out exactly what he wants Libby to "get out" through reporters (probably on the very day the Op-Ed comes out). The story with Cathie Martin on AF2 was, then, (at least) the second time Cheney managed the message.

Sorry if this has been discussed before.

[H2O Man]

40. We always do well

to discuss the things Waas has told us about the case. The guy is fantastic. As the trial unfolds, a lot of the things he wrote about begin to fall into place.

[Patsy Stone]

42. He had the best sources on this, bar none.

It's always useful to go back and see what the take on the situation was at the time: who got it right and who was carrying water. And re-reading that Guardian article with the benefit of hindsight was especially fascinating. The more I think about the OSP, the more I'm convinced of treason and espionage.

(Okay, edited to add a shout out to David Shuster -- let's not ignore his efforts)

[H2O Man]

43. Indeed, there is

a cancer on the presidency. Espionage has been a tactic for this cell since the days of Reagan.

[myrna minx]

37. K&R for this wonderful thread.

:kick:

[Morgana LaFey]

44. David Shuster is a super reporter in general, as well as on this

Lotsa detail, and some context on the Libby trial he's been covering.

He's underappreciated around here, but I love him precisely because he's not all that flashy, not inflammatory, just a good, ole, solid unbiased* REPORTER.


*No one is free of bias, but reporters can and the good ones often do recognize their biases and leave them at home. Or somewhere. That's what I see in Shuster. I think DU should pay him more attention for his dedication to simple good ole reporting.

[CatWoman]

46. kick

:kick:

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

50. Posted on FDL tread...

“President Bush told the special prosecutor in the CIA leak case that he directed Vice President Dick Cheney to personally lead an effort to counter allegations made by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV that his administration had misrepresented intelligence information to make the case to go to war with Iraq, according to people familiar with the president’s interview…”

Is it gonna be Darth Cheney’s position at crunch time that, because in his mind, he has unfettered ad hoc declassification authority just like Junior, he could legally out Plame? "

bobbyg says:

Oh, man, I really, really want a Colonel Jessup moment:

Fitz: Did you order Libby to out Plame?
Darth: I only did what the President….
Fitz: Did you order Libby to out Plame?
Darth: GO F- yourself! You’re godd*** right I did!

[Me.]

51. So Russert Hates Mathews!

What's up with that? Why bring it up at all?

(and frankly, imho, Tweety has acquitted himself on the Plame matter far more than Russert who has allowed himself to be a shill for this admin., how many lowball questions could he come up with?)

[H2O Man]

52. Great questions.

There is some gossip about a note from Mary Matalin to Scooter that says, in essence, that Scooter should complain to Tim Russert because he hates Matthews. First, if the report is accurate, it merely shows how ugly people in the administration were. We know they were angry, bitter, and hostile. It is to be expected that a repulsive specimen like Mary M would view the world in a hateful manner.

If there is a memo that says this, it should be introduced. It would be evidence that shows Scooter's state of mind -- and would confirm what Judith Miller said about an angry little man ranting about Matthews. However, Mr. Fitzgerald does not need such a letter to introduce Russert, nor to document the topic that Libby called Russert about.

I am always careful about anything that is strongly "anti-Matthews," because I am fully aware of just what lengths this administration and its supporters have gone -- and will go -- to discredit him. It wasn't a coincidence that Rove called Matthews to announce that Plame was "fair game" -- there was an intended threat to anyone who opposed the administration. And the attempts to discredit Matthews continue today .... and are found in the strangest places.

Even if Mary M says Russert hates Matthews, it should not be taken as being true. Progressives aren't going to believe her about anything else. They shouldn't fall for this type of smear.

[Me.]

53. I Believe She Also Called Wilson A Snake

What a piece of work she is. Member of WHIG...helped lie us into war...held a fundraiser in her home for the I Liar defense...lies like a reptile about everything...she should be at a defendant's side of the courtroom too.

(edited to change Iraq study group to WHIG)

[H2O Man]

54. Two related issues:

For the past couple of days, we've had links to a site with the Court Exhibits for both the prosecution and defense. I've seen a few threads with topics regarding the exhibits, and want to make a couple points.

The first one claimed that an exhibit contained an extensive White House list of journalists used to out Plame. That post is not accurate. The list, copied in Addington's memo, was from the FBI investigators. They composed the list to cover a wide range of possible media contacts. To call it a White House list misrepresents what it actually is.

Second, a TruthOut article shows a Cheney note that mentioned the president, then crossed out two words. The article suggests that this indicates that Cheney had started to say that Bush had asked Libby to step up to the plate. A few people "questioned" if the memo was real. The answer to that little mystery is to simply go to the Court exhibits, and look. Sure enough, it's there. People can decide for themselves if it appears to point to Bush being directly involved. But the TruthOut article is absolutely correct that the exhibit exists.

[Patsy Stone]

56. Although I want this to be true about Cheney's note referencing "the pres",

and I'm not saying it's not, because nothing is beyond the scope of their chutzpah, is it possible that Cheney was actually going to write "the press secretary"? Same first letters, and since this was to the PS, maybe he just had a bit of a "senior moment".

Regardless, the pResident's up to his eyeballs in it.

[H2O Man]

61. It appears

to be capitalized; I think that indicates "the President." However, there is a significant space after those two words are crossed out. Cheney took a moment to re-think what he was writing.

[Patsy Stone]

69. Just one more thing

To ask Unka Dick about when he testifies. :)

[bleever]

72. This admin. has always taken pains to say "the President"

decided this or that, the President feels, the President will determine, the President has concluded, in order to frame Bush, the accidental president, as the real leader.

My guess is that the same grammatical gambit was reflexively used here, til Cheney thought better of it.

[Patsy Stone]

77. Just checking out all the possibilities

Like below when I'm thinking then maybe he meant himself.
:hi:

[Me.]

57. I Took That As Cheney Was About To Lie To Libby

and decided against it.

[Patsy Stone]

70. Lie to Libby?

Nah. I think that was a Freudian Slip. Although Cheney tries to remind us he's the Vice President, we (and he) know he's really the President. I think he was referring to himself -- and caught it. :)

[Me.]

71. I Was Thinking About The NIE

And the start-stop-start process, where Cheney first said it was declassified etc. It seems to me that Cheney got ahead of himself, and had to cover his ....

[Patsy Stone]

75. Absolutely!

It struck me as odd too. I have a Journal entry called Go, Stop, Go. It's from the May of last year, but it shows that for a moment, someone (Libby) had a doubt about the classification, and someone (Cheney) had to take care of that little detail.

Oopsie.

I didn't even get a smile for my Cheney humor? Tough room. :)

[Me.]

81. Here You Go

We're all getting a big laugh out of this

:-)

and here's Libby & Cheney

:spank:

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

55. A subject worthy of its own post.

Here's the heart of it:

"If there is a memo that says this, it should be introduced. It would be evidence that shows Scooter's state of mind -- and would confirm what Judith Miller said about an angry little man ranting about Matthews. However, Mr. Fitzgerald does not need such a letter to introduce Russert, nor to document the topic that Libby called Russert about."

A wise friend once said to me, that often a person will act most upset and affronted when they know they are in the wrong".

I can see the hothouse that is the West Wing getting mighty nasty during the runup to the war. Cutthroat and blind to reality, really and truly believing their own lies - a pack of psychos with no conscience or shame or remorse.

[Me.]

59. Interesting Exchange After Testimony Ended today

"Wells, no it didn't work that way. McC does nothing. Libby has to talk to VP of the US, VP did whatever he did. McC is not Libby's agent. doesn't take

Walton VP has become his surrogage.

Wells, I don't know you'd have. … you'd have to

Walton, we'd need VP testimony

Wells, whatever he did he did not do it as Libby's surrogate. That's what I'm drawing a distinction.

Walton if I go to Chief Judge to have a statement disseminated, doesn't that become my statement. And Chief Judge CLEARLY is not my agent.

Walton, I'll have to review transcript.

Wells, I think you'll have to talk to President BUsh bc he's probably somewhere in that chain.

Fitz introduces opening statement. We already have evidence from Addington that when Bartlett responded, Bartlett responded, "that was your boss." No dispute that Libby asked VP to intercede, and Libby asked McC to respond.

Wells I don't think evidence will show that VP was his agent.

Fitz We have evidence already, if Wells ever calls VP, we can ask him about that. Statement issued by McC came from VP."

From FDL.

[H2O Man]

60. Gosh.

It's a lot warmer in Washington DC than being reported on the Weather Channel. But you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

[spanone]

63. Many have the subterranean homesick blues

[Spazito]

65. That certainly caught my attention as well!

Wells, I think you'll have to talk to President BUsh bc he's probably somewhere in that chain.


The above statement being the second time Wells has brought up the "Pres" aspect sure tells me that his questions on the two crossed-out words "This Pres." were deliberate in pointing out the Pres part and that part of the note is important to him as part of the defense's strategy.


Interesting to say the least.

I had posted basically the same part of the testimony on the thread related to the note from this morning just to keep any added info, re note/bush, updated on that thread as well.

[Disturbed]

66. It is now obvious that Libby will be found Guilty of all charges.

I am wondering what sentence he will receive.

This must lead to the Impeachment of Cheney!

[H2O Man]

67. Judge Walton

tends to hand down stiff sentences.

[bleever]

74. Late to the party,

but enjoyed reading all the comments here after reading the testimony.

My biggest question now is: why didn't Cheney head off the whole damn mess by saying that the info on Plame was properly declassified?

It seems the answer is that he couldn't, because it wasn't, and that's why Libby's case is a prelude to laying bare the grounds for charging or at least impeaching Cheney.

:thumbsup:

[Pithy Cherub]

76. Not only more charges

but that Scooter and the veepster are going to be forced to defend themselves from multiple shots from all quarters. Meanwhile the press is seriously embarrassed and the pres is just letting them twist in the wind. If the defense calls Rove, they are going to have to call their own witness, hostile then FACE fitz on cross while "the wife's" attorneys are taking copious notes. Valerie Plame is the Cheney Cabal's modern waterloo!

;) :popcorn:

[Me.]

79. So Who Do We Think The Witness That Comes Between Bond & Russert

is?

[Spazito]

83. Well, seeing as Fitzgerald said there needed to be discussion

regarding this witness:

snip

Fitz Tomorrow: The videos, then Bond, then GJ, then another witness we need to discuss, then Russert, Conclude case late Monday or Tuesday.


End of snip

and look at the witness list as publicized on Jan 15, 2007:

PROSECUTION

ROBERT GRENIER: A veteran CIA official, he was head of the office that helped plan the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. Defense lawyers believe Grenier — or former Deputy CIA Director John McLaughlin — is the unidentified officer who, prosecutors say, told Libby on June 11, 2003, that the wife of war critic Joseph Wilson worked for the CIA.

MARC GROSSMAN: A former under secretary of state, Grossman allegedly told Libby on June 12, 2003, that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and had helped arrange his fact-finding trip to the African nation of Niger. Wilson traveled there to check out reports that then-Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein had tried to buy yellowcake uranium from Niger to make a nuclear weapon. Defense lawyers have called Grossman "a critical witness for the government."

CRAIG SCHMALL: A CIA employee, Schmall is believed to be the briefer with whom Libby discussed Wilson and Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame. The discussion was outlined in the indictment charging Libby, but Schmall was not named in the document.

JUDITH MILLER: A former New York Times reporter, Miller interviewed Libby three times in 2003 — June 23, July 8 and July 12. Prosecutors say Libby told Miller that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. Miller fought efforts to have her testify before a grand jury investigating the leak, but yielded after serving 85 days in jail.

ARI FLEISCHER: The former White House press secretary is expected to be an important witness. Prosecutors say Libby told him on July 7, 2003, that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and that it was not widely known.

DAVID ADDINGTON: The former counsel to the vice president, Addington now is Cheney's chief of staff, Libby's old job. Prosecutors say Libby asked Addington on July 8, 2003, what documents the CIA would have if an employee's spouse was sent oversees. The Libby indictment refers to Addington, but prosecutors last year indicated that Fleischer would be their only White House witness.

CATHIE MARTIN: A public affairs assistant to the vice president, Martin told Libby around July 8, 2003, that she learned from another government official that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. Like Addington, Martin is referred to in the indictment but may not be called as a witness.

BILL HARLOW: The CIA spokesman is believed to be the government official who told Martin that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA.

TIM RUSSERT: The Washington bureau chief for NBC News will be an important witness because Libby says Russert was the one who first informed him, on July 10, 2003, that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA. Prosecutors say Libby already knew that and it did not come up in the Russert conversation.

MATTHEW COOPER: A Time magazine reporter, Cooper interviewed Libby on July 12, 2003. During that interview, prosecutors say, Libby confirmed that he had heard Wilson's wife was involved in sending him to Niger.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/10753573/detail.html

could it be some issue with Bill Harlow that has arisen seeing as he has yet to testify or is it someone added as a result of testimony from the trial?

[Me.]

84. Nice Catch

on the Harlow thing, though as I don't see Bond on that list either, it could be a mystery guest. Eckenrode?

[Patsy Stone]

86. Harlow told Cathie and was Novak's other source

Novak names Bill Harlow as a confirming source
By: John Amato on Tuesday, July 11th, 2006 at 4:03 PM

http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/07/11/novak-names-bill-harlow-as-a-confirming-source/

"When Fitzgerald arrived, he had a third waiver in hand — from Bill Harlow, the CIA public information officer who was my CIA source for the column confirming Mrs. Wilson’s identity. I answered questions using the names of Rove, Harlow and my primary source."

Maybe there's discussion about how much they want to get into the Novak article?

[Spazito]

87. That certainly could be it.....

It will certainly be interesting to find out why there is a need for discussion prior to naming the witness. Seeing as the witness list that has been made public has named Harlow, if the witness Fitzgerald mentioned, why would he not mention him by name. He had no problem naming Bond who, as Me rightly pointed out, is not on the initial list.

Could it be someone else entirely that Fitzgerald wants and that the defense is objecting to being added at this time?

Whatever/whoever it is, it certainly is intriguing!

Edited to add:

Good find! I had forgotten Harlow's connection to Novak.

[Patsy Stone]

89. I should have said "another source"

It seems Novakula mentioned three right there, Armitage makes three. Oy.

Even if it's just ol' Harlow, I think it'll be good. I can't imagine Fitz would call him just to back up Cathie. She did well enough on her own. So then what else will he be questioned about. Did he also tell Scoots before TimDay?

I don't know who it will be, but I'm filling up on popcorn while I wait.

[Spazito]

90. If it is Harlow, I suspect Fitzgerald will zero in on the date

he told Cathie Martin about Mrs. Wilson working for the CIA. It furthers Fitzgerald's point from his opening statement that "You can't learn something startling on Thursday that you give out on Tuesday."

[H2O Man]

92. It seems like

the witnesses thus far have been people who had direct contact with Scooter. All of the prosecution's case is docused on the sequence of events that were involved in his actions during the week in question. Think of what witness connects Scooter's going from talking to Miller and Cooper, and then his calling Matthews. Perhaps this person's name was mentioned yesterday.

[Me.]

93. The Only People Who Talked To Mathews Was Rove & Russert

and Russert is already going to testify. Can FitzG., call someone as a witness who is on the defense list?

[H2O Man]

96. Rove

isn't the direction to look in. Libby is. Libby speaking to Russert.

[Me.]

99. Is This What You're Hinting At ?

“Zeidenberg. These are from Libby's notes, dated July 10. He can't be held accountable for what she said. Mr Libby called Matalin for advice. On July 8 he wrote down notes in which Rove said, people are taking Wilson as a credible expert. 2 days go by, he calls Matalin for advice. She tells him, she gives him strategy. We need someone who can sum it up. This is fitting into Democratic story. It has legs. The story's not going away. We need to address Wilson motivation. The President should wave his wand. "Call Tim," Mary Matalin, he hates Chris, he needs to know it all. Underneath, Mr Libby's notes, Wilson's a snake. As a result, he calls Tim Russert. The fact that he would write that down goes to state of mind. Govt was interested in responding on the merits.

Walton a statement Matalin made, not Libby That's extremely prejudicial. That would buy into govt's theory that defendant had motive to harm Wilson, and that one of the things that he could do, It's very prejudicial that someone else's mindset.

Zeidenberg. Libby makes clear that in course of conversation, it is telephone conversation he tells FBI that Matalin has a colorful way of speaking. To the extent that they want to argue that that's what Matalin writes, an ad hominem attack about critic. (emphasis emptywheel's)”

//www.firedoglake.com/

[H2O Man]

85. Sidney Blumenthal on Cheney/Libby ....

How Libby became Cheney's pawn
The vice president knew the intelligence for the Iraq war was cooked. So he launched his aide to smear the man who took the information public.

By Sidney Blumenthal

Feb. 1, 2007 | Few issues more agitated and preoccupied Vice President Dick Cheney in the early months after the declaration of "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq than former ambassador Joseph Wilson's disclosure that the intelligence underlying the administration's central justification for the invasion was bogus. So far as the occupation of Iraq was concerned, Cheney was in a triumphal mood. In a speech before a conservative group in Washington on July 30, 2003, he repeated his rationales for the war with a sense of finality: "In Iraq, a dictator with a deep and bitter hatred of the United States, who built, possessed and used weapons of mass destruction and cultivated ties to terrorists, is no more." Behind his serene public face a distressed vice president frantically micromanaged a campaign of press leaks to discredit Wilson. Cheney even scripted talking points to aides about what to tell reporters. And he fretted about what was said on cable TV talk shows like MSNBC's "Hardball." His chief agent in this intense effort to discredit Wilson was his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, finely attuned to his principal's wishes. .....


http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/02/01/libby_cheney/

[Me.]

91. This Trial Must Be Especially Sweet For Blumenthal

I remember an interview with Wilson where he said that Sid B. and his wife had supplied much needed support to the Wilsons throughout the entire ordeal.

[cassiepriam]

95. Question: Miller was a better witness that I thought she would be.

I thought she would try some tricks to pay back Fitz for
being put in the slammer.

So what is up with her telling the truth and damaging Libby?

[H2O Man]

97. In one of the

discussions with Judge Walton, it's been reported that Mr. Fitzgerald wanted to introduce the "Aspens" letter into evidence. He wanted to show the jury that Libby was attempting to influence Judith's testimony. There was some back-and-forth about if Scooter did actually try to, with his claim that no one had connected him to revealing Valerie's identity. Mr. Fitzgerald noted that while Scooter tried, it didn't work.

I've known lots of criminals. As a rule, they have more respect for an honest law enforcment person, than for someone who they believe allowed them to rot in jail. Judith knows that Scooter let her sit in jail for about three months. Her contempt for his behavior came through in her testimony.

Miller is not a good person. However, she is extremely intelligent and highly capable. If one views her testimony as not having "helping Scooter" as a goal, her intelligence and ability are apparent.

[cassiepriam]

100. 3 months in jail does have a way of clearing the mind.

Smart girl Judy.

Poor Scoot, so far in this trial the Aspens are indeed turning together,
but not with him. :(

Thanks H20man!

[PhilipShore]

98. Rove is just a patsy....

The CIA -- and the Military-Industrial-Complex are the real players. Follow the money. Who gains from the war?

Who created the PNAC? The Military Industrial-Complex?