What marriage is and isn't. What sexual orientation is and isn't. Lordy, this Judge is good.

[Robbien]

Walker seems to go out of his way to try and demolish the secular arguments against same-sex marriage:

1. Marriage is and has been a civil matter, subject to religious intervention only when requested by the intervenors.

2. California, like every other state, doesn't require that couples wanting to marry be able to procreate.

3. Marriage as an institution has changed over time; women were given equal status; interracial marriage was formally legalized; no fault divorce made it easier to dissolve marriages.

4. California has eliminated marital obligations based on gender.

5. Same-sex love and intimacy "are well-documented in human history."

6. Sexual orientation is a fundamental characteristic of a human being.

7. Prop 8 proponents' "assertion that sexual orientation cannot be defined is contrary to the weight of the evidence."

8. There is no evidence that sexual orientation is chosen, nor than it can be changed.

9. California has no interest in reducing the number of gays and lesbians in its population.

10. "Same-sex couples are identical to opposite-sex couples in the characteristics relevant to the ability to form successful marital union."

11. "Marrying a person of the opposite sex is an unrealistic option for gay and lesbian individuals."

12. "Domestic partnerships lack the social meaning associated with marriage, and marriage is widely regarded as the definitive expression of love and commitment in the United States.

The availability of domestic partnership does not provide gays and lesbians with a status equivalent to marriage because the cultural meaning of marriage and its associated benefits are intentionally withheld from same-sex couples in domestic partnerships."

13. "Permitting same-sex couples to marry will not affect the number of opposite-sex couples who marry, divorce, cohabit, have children outside of marriage or otherwise affect the stability of opposite-sex marriages."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20012701-503544.html


As the article said, since Judge Walker was so definitive, "the thing to remember here is that the ruling itself matters less than the facts Chief U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker finds.

The appeals court can consider the law de novo - from scratch. But it owes significant deference to Judge Walker's findings of facts -- which are, from the perspective of proponents of Prop. 8, pretty devastating.

The only thing that Judge Walker could have added in his definitions is:

14. These right wing fundie idiots are officially mean-spirited dumb asses.

[beam me up scottie]

1. Oh boy, they're already spinning it here in the buy-bull belt.

Local CBS affiliate offered up this selective quote "Same-sex couples are identical to opposite-sex couples".

Too bad the Tennessee GOP primary is tomorrow, think of the fun they would have had with this ruling.

[alsame]

2. Wow. Wow. Wow. He pretty much addressed all the

fundie arguments and destroyed them.

[Robbien]

8. He sure left no wiggle room for the Supremes

He done good.

[alsame]

11. Exactly, he anticipated everything. Bravo! nt

[EFerrari]

3. I get the feeling we couldn't have done better if we picked a judge ourselves.

:)

[Xipe Totec]

4. Congratulations on a well deserved, and long withheld victory! nt

[Xipe Totec]

5. Did anybody see the first reply by banned109times?

Talk about out of left field and into the weeds.

The second one is no better.

[MadMaddie]

6. This is the way it had to be done don't you think?

Once and for all a definitive clear destruction of the right wing talking points.

Think about it when the proponants of prop 8 try to take this to the next level they will have to prove that the above points are false. How would they do that?

This is a great ruling, but it's not over yet.

[Robbien]

9. Judge Walker put up a concrete wall

which is the only way to defend his decision (and his person) from all the attacks he must have been receiving from right wing conservatives.

It is not over, but this Judge's ruling and the manner in which he made the ruling tips the scales.

[Hekate]

38. I have believed all along that this issue would have to work its way up through the courts...

This is the right judge, the right team, and the team selected (out of numerous options) the right case. Judge Walker (may I please claim a distant relationship on my mother's side? I would be so proud) laid it out gorgeously and tied it with a bow.

It will have to go to the 9th Circuit and then the Supremes. Justice Kennedy, from all I hear, will be on our side in this.

Regarding conservative judges appointed by Republicans: this is how it is supposed to work. You get someone who is *not* an ideologue like Scalia. Scalia is at heart a theocrat who holds what he believes is the law of God above the laws of Man.

The US was set up to be a nation of laws -- laws laid out by the best minds of Man at the founding of the nation. Conservatives in the finest sense revere those laws but interpret them with the best modern evidence available. Thus -- the Scopes Monkey Trial found for Darwin's scientific case. Thus -- separate is nowhere near equal in public schools. Thus -- the case against gay marriage is based solely on prejudice, and the facts do not support a continued ban.

Civil rights were never intended to be up for popular vote. The founding fathers didn't really trust the masses that much -- and with good reason.

It's not over yet.

Hekate

[suffragette]

7. He came close to your #14, though in legalese

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/08/prop_8_ruled_unconstitutional.php?ref=fpblg

The judge excoriates David Blankenhorn, the gay marriage opponents' primary expert witness who testified that gay marriage weakens the family structure.

"Blankenhorn gave absolutely no explanation why manifestations of the deinstitutionalization of marriage would be exacerbated (and not, for example, ameliorated) by the presence of marriage for same-sex couples," Walker wrote, noting that "much of his testimony contradicted his opinions."

He went so far as to throw out Blankenhorn's testimony:

"The court now determines that Blankenhorn's testimony constitutes inadmissible opinion testimony that should be given essentially no weight."




Now, that's a smackdown.


To Judge Walker:

:yourock:

edited: sloppy typing

[wysimdnwyg]

24. Translation for those who are legaleze-impaired

"Blankenhorn is full of shit."

[suffragette]

25. Yep, that's pretty much what he said and he's spot on.

:)

[Kber]

29. lol

[Starry Messenger]

10. It's a work of art.

One of the trials of the century IMO. I hope they can release the tapes of the trial some day. There's some "Oh fuck" moments I dearly wish to see.

[DevonRex]

12. It's a thing of beauty, a joy to behold. K&R. nt

[indepat]

13. #14 succinctly hits the nail on its proverbial head to a tee

:P

[Kurovski]

14. K&R (nt)

[RainDog]

15. kick n/t

[FourScore]

16. If I could rec this a thousand times I would do so.

This judge is now my hero.

Thank you so much for posting this.

[tavalon]

17. I'm not gay

but Judge Walker just became one of my favorite people.

[JerseygirlCT]

18. +1 nt

[AllyCat]

43. Judge Walker has upheld the beauty and dignity of ALL marriage with this.

It is a great statement for all!

[Locrian]

19. awesome

Walkers arguments are a thing of beauty! Well done.

[barbtries]

20. i printed the opinion up and am reading it

only to page 11 so far, but from what i've read, Rachel Maddow is right: it's a page turner.

also would like to extend my hugs to all GLBT people everywhere. your civil rights may actually be awarded to you before i die.

[Althaia]

34. the link to the ruling

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35374462/Prop-8-Ruling-FINAL

[defendandprotect]

21. Love the clarity of the ruling . . . wonderful!! Reasoning -- at long last!!

[DainBramaged]

22. The singe most brilliant sentence in the post

"Permitting same-sex couples to marry will not affect the number of opposite-sex couples who marry, divorce, cohabit, have children outside of marriage or otherwise affect the stability of opposite-sex marriages."


Unless you hate deh Gay.

[AspenRose]

23. Enthusiastically bookmarked!

[Althaia]

26. weird stuff with witnesses

the ruling http://www.scribd.com/doc/35374462/Prop-8-Ruling-FINAL

PROPONENTS’ WITNESSES

Proponents elected not to call the majority of their designated witnesses to testify at trial and called not a single official proponent of Proposition 8 to explain the discrepancies between the arguments in favor of Proposition 8 presented to voters and the arguments presented in court. Proponents informed the court on the first day of trial, January 11, 2010, that they were withdrawing Loren Marks, Paul Nathanson, Daniel N Robinson and
Katherine Young as witnesses. Doc #398 at 3. Proponents’ counsel stated in court on Friday, January 15, 2010, that their witnesses because they “were extremely concerned about their personal safety, and did not want to appear with
any recording of any sort, whatsoever.”

The timeline shows, however, that proponents failed to make any effort to call their witnesses after the potential for public broadcast in the case had been eliminated. The Supreme Court issued a temporary stay of transmission on January 11, 2010 and a permanent stay on January 13, 2010. ... The court withdrew the case from the Ninth Doc
Circuit’s pilot program on broadcasting on January 15, 2010.

Proponents affirmed the withdrawal of their witnesses that same day. Proponents did not call their first witness until January 25, 2010. The record does not reveal the reason behind proponents’ failure to call their expert witnesses. Plaintiffs entered into evidence the deposition testimony of two of proponents’ withdrawn witnesses, as their testimony supported plaintiffs’ claims. Katherine Young was to testify on comparative religion and the universal definition of marriage. ... Paul Nathanson was to testify on religious proponents’attitudes towards Proposition 8.... Young testified at her deposition that homosexuality is a normal variant of human sexuality and that same-sex couples possess the same desire for love and commitment as opposite-sex couples. Young also explained that several cultures around the world and across centuries have had variations of marital relationships for same-sex couples. Nathanson testified at his deposition that religion lies at the heart of the hostility and violence directed at gays and lesbians and that there is no evidence that children raised by same-sex couples fare worse than children raised by opposite-sex couples.

Proponents made no effort to call Young or Nathanson to explain the deposition testimony that plaintiffs had entered into the record or to call any of the withdrawn witnesses after potential for contemporaneous broadcast of the trial proceedings had been eliminated.

[laughingliberal]

27. K & R nt

[Uncle Joe]

28. Those were most judicious, logical, wise and common sense findings.

Thanks for the thread, Robbien.:thumbsup:

[Ignis]

30. K&R. Worthy of framing.

Any appeal is going to have a tough time overcoming this solid work from Judge Walker.

[Kweli4Real]

31. Judge Walker's most important line in the entire opinion is ...

"Fundamental rights are not, and cannot, in a democratic society, be subject to the ballotbox." And he has a clear line of precedents that support that proposition from the Federalist Papers, through the SCOTUS' opinions starting with Loving.

If his ruling were to be reversed, there would be no objections to a state, any state, putting to the ballot questions involving race or religion ... matter long resolved via the court.

[MsPithy]

32. This decision took real courage, all around!

Just think a moment, Ted Olson and David Boies---working together!!! They crafted, through their cross examination and arguments, a substantial groundwork for Judge Walker to write an airtight decision. The conservatives are proven to be wrong, at variance with the Constitution but, they will not concede gracefully. They will try in every smarmy way possible to destroy these three brave American Heroes! Judge Walker will have to listen to every disgusting gay smear in the book, and probably some new ones. Thank you, just doesn't seem nearly enough!

Bless you forever, Ted Olson, David Boies and Judge Walker.

[Heidi]

33. Recommended.

:kick:

[Hekate]

35. Overjoyed to KnR. This is a thing of beauty.

Okay Z, you've been at my daughter's two (2) weddings. Now I want to attend YOURS. :hug:

Hekate

[myrna minx]

36. K&R n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Judge Walker made the right decision, and he wrote it well.

The haters made fools of themselves, and that did not hurt a bit, and it is pretty clear that they made no case, and that no case is the best case they had. Millions of bucks to come up with nothing but the bearing of false witness against their neighbors.

[B3Nut]

39. That's just outstanding....

A very well-crafted rebuttal to the mounds of bullshit. Bravo to Judge Walker, and congratulations to LGBT Americans! It's about damned time a ruling like this got handed down.

TP

[spicegal]

40. Bravo Judge Walker!!!

Sounds like you left no stone unturned. The right wing lunes cannot make a credible case- legally, scientifically, socially, ethically, morally, etc., etc.

[Odin2005]

41. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000

[Althaia]

42. scribd's link seems to be suffering from high traffic,

so here's another link to the ruling
http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/prop-8-defeat-read-the-decision/19581399

[4lbs]

44. Not only did Judge Vaughn Walker (using his full title out of great respect) shoot down Prop H8, but

he also slapped down every argument those H8ter idiots were using and called them illogical.

[Norrin Radd]

45. kr

[pinto]

46. I've heard a number of legal pundits suggest that his arguments will be hard for any court to refute

:thumbsup:

[Politicub]

47. His words are a gift for the ages

And the finding is filled with page after page of evidence.

Thanks also need to go to attorneys Boies and Olson who carefully mounted a devastating case. The witness' testimony and Judge Walker's eloquent summation may have tipped the scales of history.

[boppers]

48. Brilliant work.

Now, to the 9th and the Nine!

[frylock]

49. kicking so i can post on teh FB when i get home