WAPO: 'If Another Country Authorized Torture & Got Away With It-Our State Dept Would Condemn Them'

[kpete]

Eight years after the torture memo, Obama should take a hard look back

"Fears of political division, or of being called soft on terror,
cannot excuse us from acknowledging our legal -- and moral -- wrongs. "

Torture is also a felony under U.S. law and a war crime under the Geneva Conventions.

By David Cole
Sunday, August 1, 2010

Eight years ago today, two Justice Department lawyers -- John Yoo and Jay Bybee -- put the finishing touches on a secret memo to White House counsel Alberto Gonzales with the anodyne title "Standards of Conduct for Interrogation under 18 U.S.C. § 2340-2340A." With this document, better known as the "torture memo," and a second memo issued the same day approving specific interrogation techniques, the United States officially authorized torture for the first time in its history -- including sleep deprivation for up to 11 days straight, confinement in cramped boxes, the use of painful stress positions for hours at a time and waterboarding.

Today, Jay Bybee is a federal judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit. John Yoo is a tenured law professor at the University of California at Berkeley. And no one responsible for authorizing these tactics has been held to account: not Yoo, not Bybee, not Daniel Levin and Stephen Bradbury, the Justice Department lawyers who succeeded them and continued to authorize brutal techniques until President Obama took office, and not former president George W. Bush and former vice president Dick Cheney, both of whom have, since leaving office, admitted in public statements to giving these tactics the green light.

When asked about accountability for torture, Obama has insisted that we should look forward, not back. But on this issue, we cannot move forward without looking back. Unless we acknowledge that what the United States did was not just a bad idea, but illegal, we risk treating torture as simply another policy option. As the new government in Britain has recently shown, it is possible to be responsible about allegations of torture even when it means examining the sins of a prior administration.

If another country's leaders authorized torture and got away with it, our State Department would condemn them in its annual reports on nations' human rights records. And it would be entirely justified. The United Nations Convention Against Torture, a treaty that we played a central role in drafting, and that we ratified under President Ronald Reagan, prohibits torture and cruel treatment and compels criminal investigation of credible torture allegations. Torture is also a felony under U.S. law and a war crime under the Geneva Conventions.

[dipsydoodle]

1. Change you can believe in

If you're either mad or both

[shraby]

2. That alone is the biggest disappointment I have about

the Obama justice department. It was an international crime and has gone unpunished which makes Obama as guilty as Bush if he doesn't bring charges.

[JDPriestly]

22. Same here. The biggest disappointment.

[OrwellwasRight]

3. Better watch out for the torture defenders.

It's too hard to change!!! Don't ask Obama to do anything about prosecuting anyone in the Bush Administration for war crimes, it's too hard. Besides, who cares about what is RIGHT. We need only care that we won. It's like football. All sides are morally equivalent. So just shut and rejoice that we are winning. Put your silly little "idealist" concerns about torture away and just be happy.

[Angry Dragon]

5. What have we won and what are we winning??

[OrwellwasRight]

11. Um, that is my point.

duh.

[Angry Dragon]

14. I was not disagreeing with you

if anything I was trying to re-enforce your post.

If one would look back at my comments on torture posts they would find I want all parties to be tried for torture.
It is the only way this country can move forward.

[OrwellwasRight]

15. I'm just way off today.

Apologies.

[Angry Dragon]

17. No problem

we are just frustrated with the response, or lack there of, from elected officials.

You would be arrested for torturing an animal, but our government has deemed it is okay for this country to torture people.
It just seems a little out of wack to me ......... perhaps I am justed too naive to understand ...........

[OrwellwasRight]

19. You and me both.

To me, some of the worst things about the Bush years were the loss of civil liberties with the PATRIOT Act, the war crimes, the complete loss of faith in democracy due to electronic voting, and the media consolidation rules that allow it all to happen without much in depth discussion and analysis in the mainstream media. Not only are none of those fixed, none have even been addressed/discussed or seem to have any hope of being fixed. Yet we "fix" healthcare by just adding more of the same system that we know doesn't work very well. I don't know why we aren't allowed to say we are disappointed without basically being accused of being secret Republicans, or insipid fools who just don't understand.

[Capitalocracy]

44. Obvious solution: legalize kicking puppies.

At least then it's more consistent.

Edit to add: You could probably get the Republicans on board. Much more politically feasible.

[kpete]

8. that must be why

the un-recommends?
peace, kp

[OrwellwasRight]

10. Wow --

super incapable of understanding sarcasm aren't we? Glad you're so quick to judge me. what word in my post would any sane person actually say? I unrecommend your post.

[kpete]

12. wow

i was agreeing with you,
puzzled, kp

[OrwellwasRight]

13. Then my apologies.

But I remain confused about how accusing me of unrecommending your post sounds like an agreement. I liked your original post.

[truth2power]

27. OTHERS unrecommend. And they unrecommend entire threads...

It's often not clear what their motivation is. Sometimes it's just anonymous trolls that do this.

[Ignis]

32. "unrecommends" = plural

In other words, I believe Kpete was saying to you, "look at all those assholes un-recommending this OP."

[Cherchez la Femme]

36. So that's why

only 45 recommends!

It's too late for me to rec this but I can still Kick it!

Oh, and OrwellwasRight, I took the comment not as a rebuke but just a comment...

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Depends upon the country and those targeted for torture.

This country allows abuse to be propounded if it serves our purposes.

[hootinholler]

6. I pin my hope on the fact that there's no statute of limitations on war crimes. n/t

[russspeakeasy]

30. The Statute of limitations is Now or 60 Seconds whichever comes first

[laughingliberal]

7. Cole, obviously, overlooks "American exceptionalism." nt

[Bonobo]

9. No shit!

And if another country had dropped two nuclear bombs on another country, history would have condemned them too.

Go figure.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

16. I am encouraged to see the issue still being raised in the MSM no less

There are still many many people who feel that we have no moral compass and effectively no justice and no Rule of Law if we let these egregious crimes pass unnoticed and unpunished.

[annabanana]

33. I really wish, though, that WAPO had mentioned it A LOT when

it happened.

[malaise]

18. Not if they were US allies doing their RW dirty work

you know like Chile, Argentina, Colombia, Pakistan, Israel, etc.

[Soylent Brice]

20. K&R

[Kurovski]

21. K&R, (nt)

[Radical Activist]

23. "The Justice Department is investigating allegations of torture at the CIA's secret prisons"

I think you missed quoting the best parts of the article. He makes interesting comparisons to Britain.

But, we have a fundamentally different system than the UK. Congress is given the responsibility of Executive branch oversight. Obama should be more assertive about the issue. I don't know if he simply wants the current investigation to be completed first. But, the main responsibility, and blame, belongs to Congress. This is their job first and they need to get it done with or without Obama's support.

[Drops_not_Dope]

24. :yawn:

so if they decided to start torturing citizens here in America, I wonder if the outrage would be heard....

[Kurovski]

25. That already happens on a local level

in police depts.

[Drops_not_Dope]

28. yeah

and where are the voices of outrage?

Maybe they at the local level don't torture enough to cause permanent psychological damage or organ failure?

Or is it just that not enough know or care?

Tasers have caused death but does that qualify for Torture?

How far does it have to go before it's recognized as torture by enough people to demand it stop?

What is your definition of torture that local police depts. inflict?

A beating? Being tased? Or is it much worse that you know of?

Do you know of anyone in this country undergoing repetitious torture at the hands of police?

Do you know of anyone who suffers permanent damage due to govt. torture living in this country?

I bet not. Anyone like that would be silenced or thought to be crazy if they spoke about anything like that happening.

I've seen it happen right here on DU.

[Kurovski]

35. They sometimes sue.

There is help out there, it's not completely ignored.

We have an official policy to torture some people on the federal level, it is not legally snctioned locally.

I reaqd an article in the Chi trib recently, it's not ignored ,but since Viet Nam, torture became more acceptable to ex military in police depts. The article posited that there might be a new wave of torture-inured authority figures in our future.

[gratuitous]

26. Executive oversight is Congress' job

But this is one of those times when some Executive leadership would really help out. This issue isn't about Executive Privilege or National Security or some other bogus, made-up shiny object meant to distract. This is about the rule of law, and whether the United States will follow its own laws. Right now, the answer is definitely "no."

[truedelphi]

31. + 1. n/t

[spanone]

29. naw, today they would want to videotape it and compare tactics

[Winterblues]

34. and compels criminal investigation of credible torture allegations.

There should not be any choice in the matter. A Treaty is the Supreme Law of the Land and this is a matter of Treaty..No one should "move forward" on such a serious issue.. If the word of the USA has any credibility at all there needs to be prosecution on these matters..

[midnight]

37. I wish this felony would be investigated so our country can

move on.

[spanone]

38. and if any other nation did a preemptive invasion of another country....

[OnyxCollie]

39. Kick. nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

40. You should cite David Cole, not the Wp. The Post is pro-torture

[NNN0LHI]

41. Bush used torture as one of the excuses for invading Iraq

[orbitalman]

42. DAMN STRAIGHT n/t

[Capitalocracy]

43. Not if it was England or Israel. nt