How would it affect our economy if all the 'guest workers' were sent home?

[Philosoraptor]

'Guest workers' are slaves, mostly from Mexico who are not citizens, but given permits to live here temporarily to do 'the jobs most Americans won't do'. How much do these poor people affect our overall economy?

Not to mention the slaves overseas who make all of our gadgets. What if we suddenly stopped using slave labor? Would our economy suffer? What would happen if we got rid of all of our so called guest workers?

[leveymg]

1. If you want to pick lettuce, there's a job waiting for you.

Just go on-line to the Texas, Florida or California Jobs Service offices, and they'll put you in touch with an agricultural job contractor and have you on a bus to the fields. But, you won't last two days under that sun.

Or, maybe, you'd prefer a job as a roofing tar applicator?

[doc03]

6. I can take you out today and show you lots of Americans

applying roofing tar and worse. We still do that kind of work around this area because we have to if we want to work. You take an area where they have higher income and lower unemployment you may not find an American that will do that work (for what it pays). Don't give me that BS Americans won't do that, employers don't want to pay the wages Americans would want for that type of work. In all other cases the f----g Republicans call it the free market. They don't have any problem paying a CEO $200M a year, Oh it's the free market we have to pay him that to get the best talent. If it's someone doing roofing tar they want to pay $6.00 an hour.

[leveymg]

8. The prevailing wage in Sonoma, CA for ag workers is $13/hr

If you want a job in agriculture, there's work and it's not bad pay. But, it's backbreaking, and not many Americans can do it or want to. There's a reason for that. Here's the site, and here's the wage data: doleta.gov - http://icert.doleta.gov/index.cfm?event=ehRegister.PWSearch

Search Criteria
State/Territory:

california
Data Series and Source:

7/2010 – 6/2011
Collection Type:

All Industries
Area based on:

County/Township
Area Code:

42220
Area Title:

SANTA ROSA-PETALUMA, CA
Search Results
OES/SOC Title:

Agricultural Workers, All Other
OES/SOC Code:

45-2099
GeoLevel:

1
Wage Level 1 $12.92 Hour $26,874 Year
Wage Level 2 $14.21 Hour $29,557 Year
Wage Level 3 $15.49 Hour $32,219 Year
Wage Level 4 $16.78 Hour $34,902 Year
Code 45-2099.99
Title Agricultural Workers, All Other
Description All agricultural workers not listed separately.
O*Net JobZone No Zone Set
Education & Training Code No Code Set

As for roofing, the reason why there aren't many jobs anymore is that not much is getting built in most places in America. Bubble popped, and the big investment money has gone offshore. If you want to do something about that, you'll have to be willing to impose controls on the international movement on capital, which nobody is even talking about anymore.

[doc03]

26. Back in the 50s and 60's teenagers did that kind of work

We all worked on farms in the summer harvesting hay for 50 cents an hour, working for 2 or 3 hours on someones lawn for $1 or 2. My next door neighbor is elderly she pays $30 to this guy that comes in with two helpers and they do a half assed job in 20 minutes. We have teenagers in the neighborhood that could cut that yard in about an hour and do a nice job for $30 and she can't find one. As for roofing we had a bad hail storm in April and crews have been busy all summer doing roofs, local people that according to some won't do that kind of work.

[fasttense]

13. I use to work in Florida picking and planting flowers.

I worked there about 6 months trying to save for college. The work was doable, I was young and strong but the pay was absolutely horrible. I could make more money working as a waitress or store clerk.

The Mexican immigrants there were being paid in cash and I was being paid by check. Out of my check they took Social Security and a bunch of other taxes.

When they started spraying pesticide and chemicals in the upwind field so that it blew over us, dampening our clothes and hair, getting into our mouth and eyes, I quit.

Yeah those factory farms really offer well paid, safe jobs but lazy Americans just don't want to do them. I can't imagine why.:sarcasm:

[doc03]

2. It would open up a lot of jobs and employers would be forced to

pay higher wages in order to fill the jobs Americans allegedly won't do. I don't buy that BS Americans won't do certain jobs. When I go outside this area to more prosperous parts of Ohio I see lots of guest workers mowing grass and doing undesirable jobs we still do here. I worked in a steel mill and I saw Americans doing some of the worst jobs imaginable. In this area we see very few of these guest workers and those types of jobs are still getting done. The few I see around here are working on undesirable construction work on non-union projects like building Walmarts for instance. It would be impossible to seal the borders unless we had an iron curtain like the USSR and were willing to shoot and kill anyone trying to cross it. The only way to stop the illegal immigration is to have a national ID card and extremely stiff penalties on employers and enforce them. You can't blame people for coming here if there are employers willing to hire them and they can make more money here.

[Sherman A1]

3. Agreed

It's about one color ..... Green, it's never been about black, white, yellow, red or brown.

[Bobbieo]

5. If SB 1070stays in effect - Arizona will have an answer to that problem next winter!

[txlibdem]

16. Exactly what I saw on my last trip up north

I was in Wisconsin and had some fast food. No illegals in the whole place. What? You mean there are whites and african americans who'll do those jobs? Darn right.

The fields are harvested by citizens of this country. No illegals in the fields.

Construction crews were a mix of all races.

Here in Texas there is only one group doing all those jobs yet 30% of our youth do not graduate high school here. That's a whole lot of cheap labor, willing to work and in great need of jobs especially in this economy. But no, all those jobs go to illegals.

[EFerrari]

4. You'd decimate the tax base of thousands if not tens of thousands

of communities and you'd tank Social Security.

People tend to talk as if we can just extract these workers and continue on our way. We can't. Many places depend on their custom and their tax money as well as on their labor. And that's without mentioning all the families they represent, many of them of mixed status. We might as well try to extract left handed people or people who are allergic to peanuts.

[doc03]

7. How you going to decimate the tax base and tank

SS if many of those workers are working under the table and not paying either? If the employers paid the wages Americans demand for that type of work there would be more money going into the tax base. Come here to eastern Ohio, western PA or WV I can show you Americans doing plenty of jobs that Americans supposedly won't do. That's just bullshit! Employers want people to do those jobs on slave wages.

[leveymg]

10. There aren't a lot of undocumented workers in E Ohio, W PA, or WV - there aren't any jobs there.

Joblessness and undocumented workers don't correlate in the way you seem to think it does. The reason there are no jobs in those areas is the lack of investment, and that's a decision made by investment bankers in NY, London, and Dubai. If you have to blame someone, blame those who make the major decisions about your life and livelihood. All you're doing is scapegoating a class of people who are even lower on the food chain - that's what big money wants you to do.

[doc03]

28. We still have jobs that Americans aren't supposed to do

and there are Americans doing them. The reason they are doing them is they have no choice it's either move or take what you can get. Like I said you take a more prosperous area and all the better jobs are filled and employers either have to pay people more money or find someone willing to work for the money. I can drive to Columbus and see Mexicans everywhere doing gardening work because they can't find locals that will do it for what they want to pay. If you want someone to do yard work for $5.00 and hour and can't find anyone you have to raise your wages to the level it takes to fill the job. The people that hire illegal workers upset the whole free market system and drive wages down. I am not scapegoating a whole class of people. It's not their fault if you can go to another country and make far more money I can't blame them. The reason they come here is employers want cheaper labor and it drives wages down for every other working person in the country. The Republicans preach free market and supply and demand when it comes to a CEO's pay but they want slave wages for the rest of us. I get a laugh out of all these people complaining about this recession, we have been in a depression around here for the last 30 plus years. Our unemployment rate is actually among the 10 lowest counties in the state of Ohio, the reason it is low is everyone that wants a job has left town.

[txlibdem]

18. They want workers who are so scared they'll do anything and keep their mouths shut

No complaints about crap wages, forced unpaid overtime, safety violations, crimes committed by the company, idiotic policies that actually cost more money but might make the boss look bad so you better shut your f*@king mouth about it, inefficiency, etc.

They want workers who are there by their free will -- but they can treat as slaves. And when an undocumented worker gets sick or injured they're out and another replaceable volunteer/slave steps in to fill the void. A perfect world for the Capitalists.

[EFerrari]

31. It isn't bullshit and of course people exploit these workers.

But they also pay rent and buy food and clothes and gas. Whole economies come to depend on their disposable dollars.

[Clovis Sangrail]

9. so ... you're pondering sending home people who are here *legally* ? 0o

odd ... but I guess I can understand to some extent.
I often wonder if it would be an overall positive to send all of the libertarians back home.

Of course, if they're native Americans home is here so it wouldn't make any difference - but everybody else *came from* some place we could send them back to.
I think the economy would probably take a hit but in the long run I think it might make "The Country" a better place.

... then again it *might just degenerate into something ugly

[Daninmo]

30. Oh come on

Even the American Indians came here from somewhere else, just like everyone else. They weren't always here. It's past time to accept the truth.

[Clovis Sangrail]

33. you're completely right ... I'm going to go stake my claim in Africa /nt

[DCBob]

11. The country would be in a state of chaos.. the economy would grind to halt & society would collapse.

but at least the xenophobes would be happy.

[Ikonoklast]

19. Nope. Wages would rise to attract labor.

Free market response to a labor shortage, same as ever.

The work would get done, albeit at a higher cost to ownership.

[DCBob]

20. yes, in some cases, in other cases the companies would go out of business..

or relocate to Mexico or other cheap labor country.

[Ikonoklast]

22. Most of those type of jobs are local, and cannot relocate.

Like a packing house, for instance.

Agriculture related jobs would stay, construction stays, retail food...

[doc03]

29. Exactly. One of the reasons we have so much unemployment

in the Ohio Valley is back in the day the steel companies bought up all the land suitable for industry. The reason was to lock up the labor market and keep wages down, then the Unions came and upset the whole system. So what did they do, first they moved to the RTW states in the south and when they had to pay them too much they moved to other countries. So here we are with a bunch of rusting factories and all the usable land belongs to someone out of state or country. Our rusting mill is owned by a billionaire 10000 miles away in Russia.

[IDemo]

12. From a report released yesterday by The Immigration Policy Center:

Immigrants, Latinos, and Asians account for large and growing shares of the U.S. economy and electorate. Overall, immigrants made up more than 12% of the U.S. population (or nearly 38 million people) in 2008, and more than 43% of them are naturalized U.S. citizens meaning they are eligible to vote. “New Americans”—immigrants and the children of immigrants—accounted for more than 8.6% (or 11.7 million people) of all registered U.S. voters in 2006. In 2008, Latinos and Asians accounted for nearly 20% of all Americans (or more than 60 million people) and wielded $1.5 trillion in consumer purchasing power. The businesses they own had sales and receipts of $549 billion and employed 3.7 million people at last count. Immigrant, Latino, and Asian workers and entrepreneurs are integral to the U.S. economy and tax base—and they are an electoral force with which every politician must reckon.

Find out how much immigrants, Latinos and Asians contribute to your state's economy:

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/economic-and-political-power-immigrants-latinos-and-asians-all-50-states

[pampango]

21. There have been several studies in the last couple of years that show the same thing,

and none (at least none produced by any group other than rw anti-immigration groups like FAIR) that show that immigrants hurt wages or the economy. Those who think that getting rid of immigrants will be good for the rest of us, "just know" that immigrants hurt our wages and economy. Proof is not required. ;)

[mmonk]

14. It would open up cleaning toilets, making up beds, picking grapes,

and other jobs for our recent college graduates.

[stray cat]

15. Slaves were sold and couldn't leave and didn't ask to become slaves

are their problems yes - but try really being a slave if you want a comparison

[Saturday]

17. Interesting answers to your quiry.

I find it amazing that some who consider themselves progressive, who fight for the rights of all oppressed people think it is OK to let brown skinned people do their dirty jobs for low wages (slaves?) and condone it. And the reason ......Americans don't want to do it. Truly sad.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. I draw your attention to the word "let".

Are you saying it's *not* OK to let brown people do dirty jobs for low wages - that the minimum wage should be higher for some races than for others, perhaps?

Obviously, it's not acceptable to *compel* people of any colour to do dirty jobs for low wages. That *is* slavery, but it's not what is happening in America.

[Saturday]

24. No, I'm saying that brown skinned people should not be

used to do work "Americans don't want to do". Period. And to condone it is less than progressive thinking.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

32. I'm not convinced that opposing it is thinking at all.

Do you think that employers should be permitted to "use" - i.e. give the option of being employed, if they choose it, to - brown skinned people to do dirty jobs?

If you think that this should be banned, then we disagree strongly.

If you don't, then it's not clear to me what course of action you are advocating.

[Zorra]

25. "And the great owners,

who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed."

John Steinbeck
The Grapes of Wrath

[Johonny]

27. increase the national debt a lot

because it would cost a lot of $ to find, collect and ship those people. Then find collect and move new Americans to those job sites. I guess that would create a lot of temporary work. But that kind of money would be better spent investing in USA infrastructure instead.