I was reading an article on the House voting to continue funding

[Dhalgren]

President Obama's Afghanistan "surge", even after the "War Diary" came out. I found this comment following the article and thought that it was a serious issue for Democrats to address and discuss.


mcoyote July 28th, 2010 8:46 am

You know I'm wondering about this.

We've seen that Obama is going to continue with the Imperial juggernaut unfettered by any pesky constituents who dreamt otherwise.

We've seen Obama will gladly hand over taxpayer dollar to the proven grand bandits of Wall St. and will do so in amounts that would leave even the Bush gang green with envy.

We've seen that the much rumored Changling has surrounded himself with a cesspool of reactionary troglodytes, the very same pariahs that have been swirling around DC for decades.

So I wonder, as we bear witness to the entire charade, the criminal enterprise known as "our government", what are the responsibilities of those who approached Obama with nothing less than religious fervor?

Do these people who put him in office not have any responsibility to hold their man's "feet to the fire?"

Do they not bear any responsibility for the criminal acts they have enabled with their tacit or vocal support for this guy?

So now they just walk away from the voting booth and lament that their guy has been "a disappointment so far" and do they bear no responsibility for his policies, policies which many of us described in detail long before they even became policies?

Is their no responsibility from these Obama supporters for every child who is bombed by US planes in Afghanistan?

Is their no responsibility from these Obama supporters as their savior continues with the corporate takeover of the commons and for this unending financial disaster?

What about for wiretapping and renditions (both of which Obama supports)?

How many of you are willing to stand behind Obama and the Democrats as they commit crime after crime?


http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/07/27-9

This should not be "knee-jerked", but considered as legitimate points for reflection. Is there the maturity here for this? Won't there have to be, at some point?

[Starry Messenger]

1. k & r

[Dhalgren]

2. Thanks Starry! I really have nothing to say

right now. It is really late for me and I have work in the morning. i just didn't want to be accused of "hit and run" - I'll be back in the am.

:hi:

[Starry Messenger]

3. G'night Dhal.

We'll be here when you get back. :D

[defendandprotect]

4. We are responsible for it all -- and we have to step us and do as much as we

can to move Obama to the left or replace him with a more liberal Democrat in 2012 --

and that includes especially these WARS which are so brutal, cruel and illegal -- and faked!!

And bankrupting our Treasury which is agreat way to undermine democracy!!

Terrific post!

[Dhalgren]

6. The thing that got me was that it was a straight-up challenge

to supporters of and voters for the President to come to terms with what his administration has turned out to be. If now is not the time, when will it be? This discussion is going to have to take place soon. All bets are off for 2012 - if there ever was a "coalition" for Democrats, it is gone now...

[defendandprotect]

14. We put Dems in with '06 election to "end the war" . . . as Pelosi confirmed ...

There's video somewhere on this --

Morning after '06 -- Pelosi is on video saying . . .

"Dems were elected to end the war!" --

Then, either her table collapsed or someone stole it?

But the Dems spent next two years financing these cruel and brutal wars --

Pelosi also gave us a further clue about a year ago when she said that . . .

"Obama was for a lot of things when he was compaigning that he is no longer for --"


What we have lost so far under Obama are very serious losses --

our greatest opportunity yet for MEDICARE FOR ALL --

More loss of Constitutional rights - freedoms --

Failure to shut down the wars --

And the coming Obama attacks on Social Security and Medicare --

Could it be, DU might require some new rules to shut down what's going to happen then?

Or have they already been put in place?

[defendandprotect]

5. K&R --

[Bandit]

7. as they commit crime after crime?

Specifics would be helpful, otherwise it is just more tea baggery.

[Dhalgren]

8. Well the Obama admin is doing almost all of the same things

that the Bush admin did that we all (rightfully) got incensed about and called for legal action - very little change in regards rendition, secret prisons, the killing of civilians, wire-tapping, extra-judicial handling of uncharged detainees, to name just a few things. Every time a civilian is killed in Afghanistan by US funded personnel it is a crime and that crime is primarily at the doorstep of the C-in-C...

[Lost4words]

9. + 1! very little has changed.

[defendandprotect]

15. + 1000% -- this ship is moving in the wrong direction --

[Cal Carpenter]

10. Referring to criticism

of the Democratic president and congress from a clearly leftist perspective as 'tea baggery' is absurd.

[Dhalgren]

11. You are absolutely right. That is exactly the kind of "knee-jerk"

reaction we need to try to avoid. People who supported the President and his Party in full earnestness are asking what is going on and what do these actions and lack of actions mean. Anyone who still supports this President and anyone who wants to repair the obvious damage that has been done (and is being done) to the cobbled-together coalition that elected him and many of the currently serving Democrats must address these issues in an open and legitimate manner. Slinging out epithets like "tea-bagger" or "Freeper" is worse than counter productive.

[Starry Messenger]

12. I've seen a couple of people boast that they can't tell the difference

between left and right criticism. It makes me wonder why they even disliked the Republicans all these years. Don't they even know what they are about? It puzzles me.

[Dhalgren]

13. I think anyone who says that they can't tell the difference between

left and right criticisms is either being dishonest or is fully on-board with the breaking-up of the liberal/progressive/leftist/antiwar coalition that was instrumental in Mr. Obama's election. Why these folks seem intent upon breaking up that coalition is a mystery - I guess they have 2010 and 2012 all locked up...

[defendandprotect]

16. When the center of their attention is protecting Obama from criticism . . .

and the Dem Party from criticism, it leaves a very narrow window for understanding

criticism of policy/issues --

Criticism of Obama was recently described by someone here as "Obama being Disemboweled" -- !!

"Disemboweled"!!!

Kinda shows you the level of visceral reaction at play here!!

[Dhalgren]

17. What Democrats ought to be worried about, it seems to me,

is what is going to be the strategy for getting the folks who voted for Obama in '08 to vote for him again in '12. Simply pointing at the Republican candidate and saying I am different from him I don't think will work anymore. A whole lot of folks are thinking of some third way and to hell with triangulations. The Republicans were rocked by a series of third party challenges before they learned their lessons from their base and finally came back and took power. The Democratic base may have to go through the same process - that is unless the guys who control the party can manage to figure this thing out. I won't hold my breath...

[defendandprotect]

18. What's very noticeable is the lack of any real liberal leadership rising . . .

well -- no Bobby Kennedy -- no Eugene McCarthy -- no George McGovern --

GOP knocked out the best of our liberal/progressive leadership decades ago --

and that track seems laden with fear -- especially since Paul Wellstone!

But, Whitehouse, Grayson -- Feingold -- could all be promising --

IMO, we need a Maxine Waters -- !!!

:evilgrin:


And specificially to your point re 2012 . . . no one is going to be willing to go backwards.

Either we turn Obama administration around or we fight for a more liberal candidate, IMO . . .

Problem is -- as we saw with Jerry Brown in ... what year was that? . . . money has control

of the party -- and the candidates.

It will have to be a hell of a fight!


But still an easier fight than fighting a murderous administration like Bush/Cheney --

but -- again -- it will have to be one hell of a fight and taken very seriously!!



I think if word gets out on "The Cat Food Commission" that's going to lead to some fighting

spirit -- who wants to have to support their father -- in-laws?

But, I do notice that no one is doing anything on that -- not Schultz, Olberman nor Maddow.

Or have I missed it???????

[Bandit]

19. Throwing out accusations without any evidence to back it up is tea baggery

He said Obama was committing crime after crime without offering a single example. Do we just let that pass? You may, but I challenge it..That is what Republicans do and we bitch about it daily..If Obama has committed a crime or crimes lets hear what they are and demand prosecution..Otherwise it is no different than saying he is Hitler or a communist or baby killer..