Why so much fat bashing in a country where a majority are by some definition overweight?

[Hello_Kitty]

I'm overweight. 5 foot 7 and about 180 lbs. I'd like to be 25 pounds lighter, which is what I was 4 years ago. When I look at most of the people around me, particularly around my age (42) or older, I'm not out of the ordinary at all. I'm actually on the small side many places I go. But I consider myself a fat person, realizing of course that it's all relative, and I'm astonished by some of the ugly venom spewed on threads here about weight. IMO anyone who denigrates, shames, ridicules, or patronizes fat people ought to put up a recent photo of themselves in a bathing suit.

I not interested in discussing whether or not the increasing weights of Americans (and people in other countries) is a good or bad thing. What I don't get is the amount of vitriol flung at fat people these days. Often by people who are, themselves, not exactly svelte. It's truly bizarre to me. Is it because Hollywood promotes thinness incessantly? Every time I'm in line at the grocery store, usually in line with people at various degrees of obesity, I'm faced with the latest tabloid splashing THE SHOCKING WEIGHT GAIN of some celebrity. Usually it's women (gotta keep up the obligation to be decorative, ladies) but male stars are increasingly under bodily scrutiny.

The cognitive dissonance on this seems off the charts to me.

[jdlh8894]

1. Welcome to the same world as smokers!

Flame away!

[Hello_Kitty]

4. I smoke too.

To keep my weight down. ;)

[virgogal]

7. + 1

[Waiting For Everyman]

18. You can still smoke, and yet end all the stigma and harassment instantly

Seriously, try an e-cig (electronic cigarette). It's everything you like about smoking, minus all the bad. And cheaper. And with flavors. I'm on e-cigs 2 weeks now, and I have LOST weight already. I really think the flavors are causing me to eat less. I don't have much to lose, I just gained @ 10 pounds in the last year, but it's coming right off. Anyway, please try e-cigs, you won't regret it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x9437433

And below, just a page I put together with info I found worthwhile for my friends who are interested.

http://www.ecigsites.webs.com/

[Zoeisright]

103. If only being fat would endanger other's health.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. Buh bye,.

[seabeyond]

2. i am not fat. i dont care if someone is fat. i dont care if someone isnt fat. but a real hoot

to hear a fat person criticize a fat person. it is one of the few things that make my mouth drop. yes... it happens. and often. i am always amazed and surprised by the person that will criticize when they are in the same shoe.

a persons weight is truly.... one of those things, that are absolutely none of my business what so ever. and i simply dont care. it is their life. and i hope all enjoy. fat, skinny and in the middle

[KurtNYC]

62. I think people commonly try to hurt others with things that have been said to them

and that they found hurtful. It is not projection, more like identifying with a trait and then using their own experience to find something hurtful to say about it.

And it is not limited to weight; consider:
- the guys in high school who were obsessed with calling other guys gay and finding out who was gay
- people who say 'I don't like people who play head games'

There is an ancient saying: "The oppressed oppress"

[seabeyond]

66. thanks.... i forget that.

people tend to join mobs. i never did. people purposely hurt others. i dont. never did. there are a coupe things that they say people nromally do and was not an innate part of who i ever was. so it has been hard to understand some behaviors. even young, i didnt call names, or when mad at brothers say hurtful things.

but what you say is right. i have seen that. i tend to be very sensitive to another if it is something that i am having a hard to with myself.

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Why indeed. I suppose that people who are into bashing...

have to find someone to bash. Right now, there are few things that are not out of bounds. So they are focussing on things that are (presumably) in our control. Weight, smoking, unemployed/lazy. Some folks just need to look down on someone.

I got an email once with pictures of skeletal thin people showing just how disgusting skinny can be. Very unattractive. The point was "so you think fat is a problem". I could have revelled in bashing these women, except that I realize they have just as many issues as the rest of us.

[City of Mills]

19. That's a whole different bias...skinny/disgusting

I have sympathy and understanding for overweight people, but I come from the opposite spectrum - I've been skinny my whole life, at times really skinny, and the prejudices are very similar. At 5'7", I'm not a tall guy so couple that with being skinny and you have someone who's not very appealing to the opposite sex. Plus the never ending unsolicited comments, 'Wow, you're so skinny' 'You need to eat more' 'You're so thin, are you sick?'.

I have an ectomorph body type, slim build, fast metabolism. It's not all it's cracked up to be. I have to eat constantly, whether I'm hungry or not, if I want to maintain weight. A few years back I was sick for awhile and not very hungry, and I dropped down to between 130-135. I looked pale and sickly. It's taken me almost four years to put some weight back on, and I'm currently at my highest weight yet, 155. I work out pretty much every day to try to put on some muscle, but it's tough. If I don't eat enough, I end up burning muscle tissue and end up looking skinny and weak again. It sucks! But like you said, skinny can be unattractive, and I think especially for males this is true. I'm hoping to put on another 10 pounds (healthy weight aka muscle not fat), but again I have to eat constantly and avoid too much simple carbs and sugar, otherwise the weight I do put on goes right around my waist and then I look like a skinny guy with a tire.

Diet and exercise will help those who are overweight, but it's not some simple formula. You have to work against your body's genetics too. People try to make it sound so easy, but in reality it isn't.

[Curmudgeoness]

36. You are right, that sucks for a male. And damn, eating all the time

but having to watch what you eat! Sad. And yes, you are in the same boat as people who are overweight---again, people who like to bash always find someone.

But the skinny I was talking about was anorexic skinny---I would guess below 70 pounds for an adult woman.

And don't worry, there are some women who like skinny guys!

[Foolacious]

91. You're working out too often!

If you're working out every day, that's too much. You're burning off muscle trying to build muscle. Rest and recovery time is when your body builds muscle, but it can't do it if you don't rest and recover. Do hard, strenuous workouts (low repetitions, heavy weight -- make sure your joints are strong first) 3 times a week at most, and avoid hitting the same muscle groups more than twice a week (and no more than once a week if you're over 40). I had exactly the same problem a few years ago -- stress, lack of appetite -- and I dropped below 130 pounds (and I'm 5'9"). I hired a trainer and now I'm up near 160.

BTW, if you're 5'7" and 150 pounds, that's a very healthy weight. Slender, yes, but not skinny.

[happy_liberal]

95. My husband is taller than you and thinner

I make him all kinds of high fat, high protein food...if he eats more than he needs he burns it all off at night while he's sleeping...seriously...

It is just his (what I think is) awesome metabolism, he is an energizer bunny and super strong...he just doesn't store crap on his body and that includes toxins etc. He never gets sick and if he does it's over in 24 hours.

And I have found him to be super attractive after 16+ years, not even because he has no beer belly, but because he is so much fun because he still has energy and wants to do stuff like hike, bike and canoe....(and because he is a sweetheart)

Ignore the naysayers, embrace your health and hang in there because there is someone for everyone, somewhere out there someone will love you for exactly who you are...and who you are ain't so bad.

[a la izquierda]

108. My husband is 6'1" and 155...

of course, I like skinny guys (I've mostly dated runners or cyclists). My husband is thin on top, with muscular legs from riding and years of soccer. He looks very thin and bony until you see him in shorts.

Don't sell yourself short (and I say that with no pun intended, since you commented on your height-which, by the way, is tall for us short gals).

[haele]

5. A lot of that attitude comes from denial.

People that are particularly critical tend look in the mirror and see what they want to see - and most times it's "not perfect". Too skinny, too fat, not curvy enough, too curvy, cankles, thunder thighs, etc...

They turn around and project that lack of perfection onto other people. "Look at that cow, trying to be perfect. She's obviously going about it the wrong way...she doesn't try hard enough."

Same goes for the men. Sizing each other up by a standard they figure on achieving "in another few months"...how much better they're going to be.

Haele

[Hollow Shells]

6. Because hurting people's feelings is really fun.

Woodchucks are fun. "Guns are penises" is fun. "Smokers stink" is fun. "Bible Spice" is fun. Ponies are fun. Magic wands are fun.

Sometimes the obvious reason is the right reason.

[Lilith Velkor]

13. This.

[Kievan Rus]

8. Because fat-bashing is a bigotry that's still accepted

[Dragonbreathp9d]

116. I would not compare obesity and race

thats just stupid

[Warren DeMontague]

9. Honestly, given the shit that nearly inescapably constitutes "food" for Most of America

I'm impressed when someone ISN'T fat.

I was heavy, for years. Worked my ass off to lose it, have managed to keep it off for the better part of a decade. Massive lifestyle, diet changes, a shitload of exercise... but it can be done.

[happy_liberal]

84. yes

our food supply is shit.

If people just treated their bodies like their car....would you put washer fluid where the gas goes? People keep overfilling their tanks with crap that isn't meant to be there. Bodies cannot process, they keep adding more...

I don't think we can handle the toxic effects of GM foods, liver is already hurting, then we add in some mercury filled high fructose corn syrup or maybe Rumsfeld's toxic brew aspartame....

I started seeing myself as a volkswagon rabbit. I am lucky to need so little to go so far. I give it just what it needs to get those miles in and then wait for it to indicate it needs more. I am super efficient, producing way more food than I will ever eat, and saving a ton on groceries for myself and my family by cooking everything from scratch with basic ingredients that I can pronounce.

I think often the reason people keep eating is because they are still craving nutrients. Our food supply is so lacking, people are not getting the nutrition they need so their bodies keep telling them 'more'. There are tricks that might help people such as eating your vitamins so that your body is not telling you to eat because it is looking for iron or whatever. Also, I was just reading that soybeans (and not super processed soy, or GM soy) have super fat burning substances. "Soy is the wonder product, which has chemicals, which help fat from being deposited and also helps to act on the fat deposits in the body by breaking them down. Soybeans enhance the body’s ability to do away with fat." Maybe eating some tofu in the morning(actually these soy curls http://www.butlerfoods.com/ are way better than tofu) and then your body can live off it's own fat for most of the rest of the day. Nutrition is an amazing thing, and the root of almost all illness, but your doctor will never tell you that.

Our FDA is making us sicker so people are going to have to take their lives into their own hands. Do not trust that everything considered food at the grocery store is actually food. Even the fruit and vegetables are covered with neurotoxins. I feel so bad for children growing up with this food supply, being bashed for being fat and they are too young to even know what is happening or how to take responsibility. They just eat the crap their parents give them....

[Warren DeMontague]

114. I won't touch HFCS, never wanted anything to do with "nutrasweet".

Best thing we can do in summertime? Plant a garden. Even if you only have a window box in an apartment, you can grow some stuff. I've been amazed at how much lettuce I can grow in a window box or rectangular planter, and the best part about doing it that way? No slugs to pick off.

[City of Mills]

10. I think it has to do with self esteem

People get a little boost when they identify someone they consider a little larger or lazier than they are. But that's an oversimplification, there's a whole bunch of reasons.

[Mike 03]

11. Your post really touches me. My parents are/were both obese.

They have lost weight in their later years. My Dad has cancer, and he has lost weight.

It has caused me great pain to see them fret about their weight, be discriminated against. I used to worry about their health, but they never smoked, never drank, worked so hard in life to make a good existence for their three kids.

Honestly, even though I understand intellectually the argument for beating up on fat people, I just wish it would stop.

I am nowhere near as good as my parents in so many ways, and it is just due to luck and my love of exercise that I am not in the same boat as them I have vices, they just happen not to be food.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

12. I am not fat

but I used to be and I know that people prejudged me based on it. I know how hard it is to go through life being overweight (I was very overweight), I am not sure why people are so cruel when it comes to fat people and you are right many of them could stand to lose a few pounds. I just dont get it.

[Lilith Velkor]

16. I used to get a *lot* more bashing for being skinny than I do now that I'm fat.

I didn't have the muscles or the facial scars back then, so...yeah.

The nice thing about bullies is that you can do whatever you want to them and not feel bad about it.

[JI7]

14. at 5'7 that doesn't seem too much, at most maybe a bit chubby

but not what most would consider overweight.

[Hello_Kitty]

17. It's close to obese on BMI charts, not that it means that much.

I consider myself fat because I weigh more than I want to but I also realize that I look "normal" so I don't experience the kind of discrimination that people a lot heavier than I am face.

[political_Dem]

15. The war on obesity puts these impossibly high standards on anyone who isn't thin.

It creates more self-hate and dissatisfaction than trying to stress the health aspect of it. There's nothing like having some skeletal, sixty pound woman on television make normal-to-overweight women feel horrible about themselves. And it is even more horrible when one finds out what the sixty pound woman did to get that small--especially if it had to do with anorexia or bullemia.

I'm convinced that the fashion and weight police in this country won't be happy until every single citizen in this country is starving or spending their time over a toilet while sticking their fingers down their throat. After all, doesn't thinness buy you happiness no matter what you do to get there?

To tell you the truth, this country is only one step away from the worlds of Gattica and Minority Report every day. :(

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[City of Mills]

26. Not really worth a reply

Nice troll. But your oversimplification is ridiculous. People's bodies store fat/energy at different rates and metabolisms vary. Some people take medications that affect metabolism and they may not even know it. Some people do eat too much and don't exercise a lot.

And skinny does not equal healthy.

[distantearlywarning]

30. Don't bother.

I already reported. Troll will probably be gone shortly.

[CTyankee]

117. While what you say about the different rates and metabolisms of people

is true, it doesn't take into account that people have been that way for a long time. Yet in my lifetime I have seen this enormous rise in numbers of fat people and in their sheer size. I have family photos dating from the 1940s-1970s and while some older people in the photos are a bit heavy in the middle, no one is truly obese. Something else happened. My bet is on High Fructose Corn Syrup, which is in just about everything...

[L0oniX]

33. Physics shimizics ...we don't care about reality.

[femrap]

21. I rarely

hear ridicule of male obesity. They may joke about it amongst themselves, but it's nothing like the treatment that women receive. The biggest crime a woman can commit is to get fat.

Healthy foods cost a lot. Joining a gym is costly. Many jobs are sedentary. And I truly believe that food processors put some kind of chemical (nano foods) to make you hungry.

I never felt satisfied after eating those Lean Cuisines. I stopped eating processed foods as much as possible.

I was given dexadrine and dexamyl throughout my teen years for weight loss. Then all of a sudden the Medical Industry said that was 'speed' and should be illegal.

I finally found a great herb from China that is used to suppress appetite. I worked great. No jitters; no trouble sleeping then some asshole college kid ate an entire bottle and died. Now that is illegal.

The Food and Medical Industries want us fat and unhealthy. I'm so sick of seeing those hamburger/pizza/ice cream commercials from 8 to 11:00 pm every night. I feel like a Pavlovian dog. So MSM wants us fat, too.

[entanglement]

47. I agree

As a man, it took me a while to realize how much this issue affects women. I've had a beautiful curvy woman tell me society made her feel "trapped" in her body. She pointed out many instances of fat-hatred and shaming in day-to-day conversations, the news, print media and so on that I'd never even paid attention to or recognized as such prior to that conversation.

[femrap]

105. Thank you so

much for your comments. Lots of guys just don't want to hear it. It really hits a woman's self-esteem and confidence.

Glad to know that you 'get it.'

[uncommon]

61. Agreed - there is a totally different stigma on overweight women

as opposed to men. In my experience, women who are over a size 12 are considered fat and just made to feel worse the further they get from that mark. Men can be quite hefty without facing much judgment about it - only when they are really, really morbidly obese does the game start to level out.

Sitting at a desk all day hasn't helped my weight one bit - neither does working 45-50+ hours a week at that desk.

[femrap]

104. Desk jobs are

killers. You gotta put yourself first and get an hour of FUN exercise in....I love to dance to old disco and classic rock n' roll. Or just a walk....but when it's 90 degrees, it's not fun.

[WolverineDG]

22. Skinny people are cranky because they don't eat enough

& their blood sugar is too low.

dg

[Texasgal]

23. *snicker*

:)

[City of Mills]

24. Hey, don't hate on skinny people!

But you're right, sometimes we don't eat enough. :hi:

[WolverineDG]

41. when they stop hating, I'll stop hating

In the meantime, EAT SOMETHING. I'm tired of putting up with cranky-pants. :hi:

dg

[Binka]

58. The Only Cranky Pants In My Family Is The FAT One

The rest of us run, walk, exercise, and like being fit. The fat one is a cranky pants. YMMV if you move.

[WolverineDG]

65. Wow, such hostility to a comment made in jest!

Is the fat one really the cranky one?

BTW, I've walked over the Pyrenees Mountains twice. I walked over 700 kms in Spain last September, & watched as quite a few skinny people had to give up because they weren't prepared (they thought just being thin was good enough; it's not.)

I love it when skinny people just assume I don't exercise or am out of shape.

dg

[Binka]

78. Yes The Fat One Is The Cranky One

Being fat makes her depressed and irritable. Thus cranky. BTW I could care less about your trip over the Pyrenees. :hi:

[WolverineDG]

107. Better to be cranky, than smug, self-righteous, arrogant, & hostile nt

[Binka]

113. The Hostility Is All Yours Darlin'

I was pointing out that my sibling who is overweight is cranky. You have now accused me of being smug, self-righteous, arrogant, and hostile. Wow. You are a fucking trip. BTW personal attacks are against DU rules. Are you this emotional in court?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

25. I think you basically answer your own question.

You see a lot of people worrying about how many fat people there are in America because America has an awful lot of unhealthily fat people.

[distantearlywarning]

29. Worrying is one thing.

Bashing is another.

I also don't see too many of the "worriers" being all that concerned about other lifestyle habits that might lead to someone's early demise (not wearing seatbelts, for example). This leads me to believe that bashing is being thinly disguised by a veneer of "worry", so that the basher can always retreat to that explanation for their behavior if they are called on it.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

38. I can think of three responses to that.

1) There may well be a fair element of truth in what you say.
2) The wearing of seatbelts is legally mandated in most of the US, I believe - the debate has already been had.
3) (the main response): Most people discussing most things on DU aren't doing so because it will change the world, they're doing so because they enjoy arguing. There is no-one arguing the other side on seatbelts, so not many people bother to post about it. By contrast, posts like yours are common, and so so will ones arguing with them.

[Hello_Kitty]

42. Funny but when I'm worried about someone I don't call them ugly names. eom

[soleft]

71. She's not talking about worry, she's talking about hatred

Miles apart.

If people were truly worried about fat people they would treat them with compassion and not scorn.

[spooked911]

27. I think people who see themselves as a little overwieght

and who are trying to work on their weight get disgusted by people who don't even seem to try.

That's my simple take on it.

[Texasgal]

28. considering that

magazines and many models and celebs are called fat at a size 4...

I think our perception is way off. Being FIT is one thing... being SKINNY is quite another.

[Hello_Kitty]

31. I think they should attend to their own affairs and leave others alone.

[spooked911]

34. well sure, but

people love to judge.

Btw, I am about your height and weight and am fairly happy with my weight. I was 190 lbs for a while and am glad to have come down from there.

[Nye Bevan]

32. I'm fine with people of more ample proportions

except when they are sitting next to me on a plane and intruding on the space that I've paid for (belly fat oozing over the armrest and thigh fat oozing underneath the armrest). Just like I'm fine with people smoking as long as I don't have to smell the disgusting second-hand smoke.

[quinnox]

35. agreed

Lets face it, some of these people need to have two seats to fit their bulk.

[jdlh8894]

37. So let's put all the fatties and smokers

in the back of the plane,bus,whatever.Rosa Parks anyone?

[Nye Bevan]

40. NO!

Smokers *used* to sit in the back of the plane in the "smoking section". Needless to say the smoke drifted everywhere, especially on a long distance flight.

It's actually amazing these days to think that smoking used to be allowed on planes.

[JoeyT]

43. I wonder if you realize your comment

sounds an awful lot like a racist describing how they don't hate minorities, except when they're filthy criminals. Which they all are, of course. Oozing? Really? Fat people "ooze"?

[Nye Bevan]

59. On this Jetblue flight I was on the guy next to me definitely oozed.

The armrest was literally surrounded, from above by the belly and from below by the thigh. So me using the armrest was out of the question.

The guy tried to put down his tray table but it only went down to about a 45 degree angle because his belly was in the way. So he gave up on this, until the Jetblue Doritos arrived, at which point he determinedly wedged his tray table down, deep into his belly, but fairly close to horizontal.

[LostinVA]

93. I've posted this before, but I'll do it again

From Newark to Dallas, I had a guy that was huge, sat down, threw up both armrests, and literally just spread into both seats. For several hours, I cringed into a corner of my seat, and the guy in the window seat did, too, while a strange man's body pressed against me from breast to thigh. It was sweaty and gross and very upsetting.

There were no extra seats. I asked.

He should have been removed from the plane and made to buy two seats on another flight. This isn't discrimination, it's the truth. It was MY seat, not his, and he couldn't even fit into a seat belt.

The ONLY time I care if someone is fat is if they are a child or young adult, because of the health risks and the emotional toll. However, your rights stop when they interfere with mine.

[Missy Vixen]

48. I don't think I'd like to sit next to you, either

The stench of smug self-righteousness is a lot more repugnant to me than someone who may possibly brush my arm or leg as they adjust to get a little more comfortable in a 17" seat.

I wonder how you'd feel if you sat next to Jared Allen of the Minnesota Vikings on a plane, for instance. He's 6'6" and weighs 270. I'll bet you'd be asking for his autograph, instead of bitching about his thigh or belly "oozing" into your "space".

[blueamy66]

60. I'm sure that Jared would be in First Class...more room for him...

I am 5'11" and have very long legs. But I do not jab them into the back of the seat in front of me.

It's called respect.

[Missy Vixen]

79. Do you know anything about Jared Allen?

He might be riding on the wing.

In the meantime, my husband used to play football. He's 6' and 250. Any attempt to fit into a coach airline seat is misery for him.

[blueamy66]

80. Yeah, a bit....

still thought he could afford a FC ticket. :-)

[Missy Vixen]

89. He probably could

but I don't know if he'd hang out in FC a lot. He'd probably sit in coach, just so he could mess with everyone sitting around him.

;-)

[LostinVA]

90. You got it -- horrible experience to have that

[lumberjack_jeff]

39. Bigotry is inherent in humans.

Some recognize it and work to keep it at bay. Others do not, so they'll direct their bile towards the group from whom they'll get least pushback.

I'm overweight and I'd like to be 25# lighter too. My eldest two sons are both healthy weight. They also smoke. They'd be better off fat.

If I have a bias, that's it. No genetic predisposition makes anyone pay $10 at the convenience store for the privilege of reducing their life.

[krispos42]

44. It's hard for fat people to catch and beat the thin people.

Of course, once we get'em there's no hope, but it's the getting that's problematic.

[soleft]

72. Or run away from Zombies

Rule 32 - Cardio

[Tailormyst]

77. I thought 1 was "Cardio" and 32 was "Enjoy the little things"

[soleft]

97. I think you're right, only saw it once

[Tailormyst]

101. hehe- I am a total zombie lore fan

please excuse my dorkiness :)

[krispos42]

92. On the plus side, the caught fat people delay the zombies longer.

More to eat.


Hmmmm... maybe I should stock up on ammo, just in case...

[JoeyT]

45. Because they're the one of the few groups left that it's cool to be a bigot about.

I'm not overweight and I probably never will be, and there's one simple reason for it: Sheer luck.
I was lucky enough to hit the genetic jackpot. I'm lucky enough to have family with enough land that I can grow whatever kind of vegetables I want year round. I'm lucky enough to be able to live an active lifestyle without being hampered by serious injury. I'm lucky enough that I haven't had to take drugs that cause massive weight gain. I'm also lucky enough to be youngish, so this may all be subject to change in the future. For me and for the bigots, as much as it would kill them to admit it. (And I stuck this right at the beginning to head off the "OMFG you don't hate fat people?! You must be fat! LoL!" nonsense.)

The cognitive dissonance goes even further than a fat country hating fat people. It's telling that the same people that will correctly point out that luck plays a large part in creating rich people will fight you, kicking and screaming all the way, that luck plays no role whatsoever in weight. The way they act you'd think they lived in Libertarian Utopia World© where everyone equally starts out equally equal in equal circumstances that are equal and the only thing that determines where you end up is how much effort you put in. No one is ever sick or injured, or just taking medication that has shitty side effects. Everyone has enough money to buy fresh fruits and vegetables, and easy access to places that sell them too. Poor people, genetics, and shitty luck don't exist in "No fatties" world any more than they exist in Conservative or Libertarian Worlds. "Poor people are lazy" will be treated as a blasphemy of the highest order, as it should be, but "Fat people are lazy" will be defended and applauded. Sometimes it seems like the only difference they have with conservatives is which outgroup to attack and demean at every available opportunity.

Overweight people, along with poor people, are still easy marks for one simple reason: They're two groups that can still be shamed into silence or even agreement by the people that hate them, now that they can't keep other groups ashamed enough to attack one another quite as easily. I don't think Hollywood is causing too much of this one. We just made other forms of bigotry unacceptable, so fat is the new fad. It'll pass and we'll be on to hating left handed people or people with asymmetrical features or something soon enough. We'll be told we need to shame that guy into using his right hand like a normal person, and if that guy weren't so lazy he would grow his right leg 1/64ths of an inch longer to even it up. Personally I hope the new fad is bigotry against self-righteous people that demand others live up to, and usually exceed, their own standards.

[Naturyl]

53. Poor people are in the same boat.

The bashing of the fat, poor, and smokers is a guilt-free national pastime.

[JoeyT]

54. Yep, it's especially useful if they can

divide the poor into subgroups that they can sic on one another.
That's one of the objections to the "working poor" label. It implies there are "non-working poor" that don't deserve help.

[Naturyl]

55. Bingo

Thanks for getting it.

[Hannah Bell]

56. They go together. Poor people are more likely to be overweight, & more likely to be smokers.

And the association is part of the reason they're targets.

When corpulence & cigars were associated with wealth (circa 1880s-1910s), things were different.

[renate]

81. very nicely said, especially your second paragraph

Like you, I'm lucky in many ways--genetics, easy access to healthy foods, and in my case anyway, an almost complete lack of interest in sweets (which is also something we're either born with or not). (My skinny son would live on candy if I'd let him... but he's a teenaged boy.) And we have a safe neighborhood to exercise and play in. If the nearest grocery store were a 7-11 and I could only afford to feed my kids on cheap hot dogs, fake apple juice, and macaroni and cheese, and we couldn't go outside safely, we'd all look pretty different. (And I know that healthy food can be affordable--the problem is that many people are never taught how to shop for and prepare inexpensive, healthy foods. It's a real skill, and takes a lot of time that not everybody has.) Same thing if I were working two jobs and didn't have time to cook at home, or if we had physical problems that kept us from being active, etc etc etc. I have a neighbor who I'm pretty sure suffers from depression, and a meal that she doesn't have to cook and that her kids won't argue with her about is probably a big help as she gets through the day. We don't know why people make the choices they do, but as a rule it's not because they're dumb and lazy. Everyone's doing the best they can.

So much of our life circumstances are due to good fortune. It's upsetting when people who are fortunate blame others for not having the same luck.

[ProudDad]

46. Because USAmerica is all about

dumping on folks who can't really defend themselves...

Blacks, Immigrants, overweight folk, homeless...

Get the lower classes discriminating against one another and screw them all BLIND...

It's the USAmerican capitalist way...

[Withywindle]

49. I think it might be because huge percentages of obese people is a relatively recent development.

I remember exactly who "the fat kid" was in my elementary school 35 years ago.

Because there was only one.


Doesn't mean it was OK to make fun of him (as some of my classmates did, I'm sad to say.) It's just that I'm not all that old, and I remember when only one kid out of roughly 20 in my (public, poor, Appalachian) grade-school classroom of 35 years ago was significantly overweight.

If it's really a huge majority now, then surely it's not all because of genetics. Something else has to be at work. Maybe the fact that a "large" size soda drink from McDonalds is at least three times what it was in the 70s? Plus other factors related to overeating and underexercising?

I think it's natural for older people (meaning, over 30) who remember when obesity was relatively rare to be a little bit horrified at how prevalent it is now...and to feel some disgust at how awful the more extreme cases are. I literally never saw a 400-lb person who couldn't fit on a bus seat when I was a kid. Ever. There just weren't any that I ever met.

[Hannah Bell]

57. people between 30 & 65 are the fattest age bracket.

it's not the case that a bunch of skinny adults are looking in bewilderment at a bunch of fat youngsters.

[Hello_Kitty]

73. So that justifies being mean?

Calling people ugly names and then pretending it's borne of "concern for your health"?

[Withywindle]

109. No, it doesn't justify it AT ALL.

I didn't mean to imply that it did, I'm sorry if it sounded like that. I just meant to offer up a possible explanation for some of it, but just because it can be explained doesn't make it OK. Sometimes examining motives can help people stop doing things that are hurtful.

[KT2000]

50. Lots of bashing these days

I believe it is part of the RW scourge of this country. They taught Americans to resent, judge and dislike other Americans. The list is long -
overweight people, non-Christian people, smokers, non-white people, immigrants, outsiders etc.

[Hekate]

51. Are you up for the flaming-fat-bashing to come from "progressive" DUers?

I've seen it over and over, and it ain't pretty. Why even go there, except to pad out your Ignore list?

Hekate

[Naturyl]

52. Fat-bashing is like poor-bashing

Everybody's more or less fat and half the country is on the way to being more or less poor. Yet, our media indoctrinators tell us we should look down on these groups even if we are members of them (or close to becoming so).

BTW I am a 170 pound male of average height, so I'm not opposed to fat-bashing for selfish reasons.

[Tailormyst]

63. Being obese makes you either invisible or the means for others to feel superior through taunting

Either way it is painful. When I go out I pray for the invisible instead of the taunting. As I get older it happens more and more that way.

I've been on a really strict diet since January and have only lost 36 pounds. Not even enough for people to notice. I know when people see me they assume I am a slob who eats bon bons and drinks coke all day. They have no idea that I eat no starches, sugars and exist on mostly meats, veggies, berries, nuts- organic probably 75% of the menu. I log EVERYTHING I eat. I eat half the calories they say I would need to maintain current weight, still the scale moves incredibly slow.

Remember that when you ridicule a fat person or try to be "helpful" by pointing out their fatness: THEY KNOW they are fat, they are already in pain, you add to it and make them want to eat more and what you are doing is just mean spirited.

[Missy Vixen]

82. Please go to the doctor and have a TSH test

The thyroid plays a huge role in weight loss, especially for females. You may have an underactive thyroid. A TSH test measures the thyroid hormone in the bloodstream.

Congratulations on the 36 pounds! What a great achievement.

[Tailormyst]

85. No insurance, otherwise I would.

Thank you for the advice though. If I ever do get insurance I will do that.

[distantearlywarning]

88. I'm a hypothyroid patient myself.

The initial doctor's visit and blood work might be a few hundred, but thyroid meds are actually quite inexpensive. My insurance won't cover anything but generic (which I can't take), so I pay out of pocket every month. It's only $20 for a month's supply. Maybe there's a free clinic or cheap clinic in your town which would do the initial exam for you for free and then provide inexpensive bloodwork until you get the dosage figured out?

And trust me, if you are hypothyroid, you will feel *so* much better after getting medicated. You'll feel like a new person, like you had no idea what you were missing in life prior to being on meds. No guarantee on the weight loss though - meds weren't a miracle for me that way (although they did stop me from gaining more while eating a normal diet).

[Tailormyst]

94. When I can spare a couple hundred I will do that

My living arrangements are changing soon, so hopefully I will be in a better position to find some sort of clinic and pay out of pocket. I also suffer from clinical depression and would love to be able to get seom treatment for that at the same time. I've read that depression can result from thyroid issues.

[pipi_k]

64. I think it's because so many people still look at it

from the viewpoint of its being ONLY a problem of "willpower".

People who don't like themselves have to focus on someone else, or really take a look at themselves, which they can't do.

If they can't focus on someone else because of things the other person can't help (race, skin color, etc) then bashing someone for something that appears to be a matter of choice is (in their minds) allowed.


I have a dysfunctional relationship with my fat. I wouldn't say I'm morbidly obese, as I have seen people who are way larger than I am, but I'm still large enough to have trouble doing things I have to/want to do.

When I see someone who is two, three, or more times larger than I am, I'm horrified...fearing that I'll someday end up that way myself. Yet in a way I'm comforted, knowing that my fat could be a whole lot worse than what it is.

I wish I could exercise more, but I can't. I have constant joint pain and stiffness which makes more strenuous activities pretty much impossible. Walking...a good exercise...is complicated because of a mixed bag of leg and foot problems. Plantar Fasciitis, bad knees, swollen ankles, and right now I'm dealing with metatarsalgia in my left foot. Very painful!

So it's not always about "willpower" or people being piggish about food, which is what too many people want to believe about those of us who are overweight, and which is why, IMO, they believe it's OK to bash away.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

68. Compassion is always called for, but it is largely about willpower

It is never right to be cruel or bigoted, but making excuses (on a national cultural level--this is not in reference to your personal observations) is not helpful.

Being a little plump is a normal range of body-types thing, but being substantially overweight is almost as bad as smoking. Being greatly overweight is worse than smoking.

I don't think there is any upside to cutting too much slack, culturally, for illness that can be self-corrected.

Smoking is brutally hard to quit--as hard as dietary modification. The stigmatization of smokers as evil has been very unpleasant to smokers, but I cannot get too upset about it because I am keenly aware that there is something wrong in children seeing me smoking, with the implication that it is somehow an acceptable choice.

One hundred years ago they had people in circus side-shows who weighed 350-400 pounds. It was a rarity. Today it is commonplace.

Yet when I was a kid people ate mounds of butter and piles of red meat... yet seriously obese people were rare.

Something has changed.

Perhaps it is not the "fault" of the overweight. Perhaps high fructose corn syrup behaves very differently from sugar somehow. I have no doubt that fast-food is unusually fattening.

In smoking terms, the most popular cigarette makers put ammonia in the cigs to make them more addictive. So the smoker faces an uphill climb.

But could anyone say that smoking is not a matter of will-power? It is hard to quit, but still a matter of doing it... prioritizing a level of pain for some health or social reason.

Cruelty and prejudice are bad, but acceptance is also bad. We should not embrace self-inflicted illness as part of a rational range of choices or behaviors.

[uncommon]

70. The thing is, there are factors that are largely out of many people's control --

sedentary jobs for instance (I have this problem myself - I work between 40 and 60 hours per week depending on how busy we are and I spend all of it at a desk).

The expense of healthy v. unhealthy food is another major problem.

People should have the time to be active and good, healthy food should be cheaper than cookies.

[DatManFromNawlins]

98. Sedentary jobs? Nonsense.

If you aren't making time to exercise then you aren't planning your day correctly.

[uncommon]

99. Ha. I commute to work, over an hour each way, then work for 8-10 hours, then commute back home

where I have to take care of my 6 year old daughter and then I am lucky if I have time to shower before bed.

You are wrong.

[distantearlywarning]

112. It's not that easy for some people.

I have flexible hours as a Ph.D. student, so it's relatively easy for me to find an hour or more to exercise daily (and thank goodness, because I'm one who needs it, for multiple reasons).

My husband on the other hand (who BTW has 16% body fat despite his desk job - lucky recipient of an incredibly fast metabolism) has this schedule:

5 am - get up, eat cereal, shower, dress
6 am - commute to work
7 am - 4:30 pm - work (generally with no lunch hour, because he's overworked at his job)
4:30 pm - commute home from work, shopping for household items or groceries
6:00 - arrive home, do household tasks
6:30 - help his wife prep and eat healthy dinner
8:00 - check email, spend time with wife and cats, pay bills, finish any unfinished household tasks, work on 10,000 other miscellaneous things that got left behind
9:00 - bed (if he's lucky and didn't get called by work)

He's also on-call 24-7 and regularly gets lengthy calls in the middle of dinner, in the middle of the night, on the weekends, etc. He puts in 60-70 hour weeks very often.

And damn, we don't even have kids. Frankly, I'm not sure what we would do if we had kids - probably our house would be a disaster area and we would have take-out half the time. The only time he gets for exercise or any other leisure during the week is when I do all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, meal planning, gardening, ironing, etc. And actually, there are many weeks when I do take the lion's share just to give him a few free hours to relax on occasion.

He is able to and does take time to exercise on the weekends - we are both fencers and go to fencing practice on Sundays, Thursday nights, and sometimes Saturdays. One hour daily is pretty much out of the question on a regular basis for him, though. :-(

I would love him to take a job closer to home, but we've gone over it 1000 times, and this situation is actually the least of all evils for us.

But like I said, he's a very skinny guy so he doesn't get bashed by the judgers despite his busy life. Lucky, I guess.

[distantearlywarning]

75. I smoked for 10 years.

After several failed attempts, I was able to quit cold turkey and have now been smoke-free for ten years next month.

Almost immediately after I quit smoking, I gained 40 lbs (also due to an undiagnosed thyroid condition and overeating due to some extreme stress in my life at that time). I used to be quite skinny (size 2 in high school), so it's not like I was a fat kid who learned lifelong bad habits in my childhood or anything.

Despite now being properly medicated for my thyroid disease, being a competitive fencer (i.e., a fair bit of physical activity weekly as a matter of course), dozens of dieting attempts and what seems like to me to be herculean efforts on occasion, I have not yet been able to permanently lose and keep off any significant amount of that weight in the last decade.

I could quite literally quit smoking 100 times for every pound I have ever lost, no joke. That is how hard weight loss is for me. Quitting smoking was a fucking piece of cake compared to finding ways to avoid adding inches to my ass if I so much as think about eating a fucking piece of cake.

BTW, I also had a drug problem in my teens and early twenties, and was able to quit that cold turkey as well - have been sober for 13 years.

Nobody who knows me would ever call me lazy. The idea of that is laughable - in the last six months I've landscaped my back yard, painted the entire exterior of my house, restored my antique front door by hand, etc, all while writing a dissertation. Even on my days off, I work 14 hours a day doing various things around the house and as a volunteer. I don't spend much time in front of the TV - too much interesting and important stuff to do with my life.

And yet...

I apparently don't have the willpower to lose weight.

And if I don't, who the fuck does?

This is why America is fat. Because if it were as simple as "just eat less, lazy fattie", we'd all be thin. But it's not. There are probably a dozen reasons why it isn't that simple, one of which is that you can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with smokes (everybody has to eat *something*, even fat people), another of which is that our biology resists weight loss like nothing else and attempts to force us to stop losing fat, and then there are numerous social factors, and yes, a lot of us are just lazy (or overworked, or self-medicate depression with food, etc.) But it really isn't just about physics. It's about physics PLUS multiple other factors which interact with the physics to dramatically change how people deal with weight and weight loss in one direction or another (these days mostly towards the "get fat and stay there" side of the spectrum, it seems).

[Missy Vixen]

87. Oh, I see

>I don't think there is any upside to cutting too much slack, culturally, for illness that can be self-corrected.<

Thanks for clarifying that for me. After all, we all know that the only reason anyone is fat these days is that they have no "self-control". It's a moral failing. Isn't it fun to have all the answers?

How about this? I've never smoked anything in my life. I never will. I'm tired of the excuses about smoking being so addictive. Why don't smokers just put down the cigarettes? They made the choice. Just stop doing it. They don't need gum or a patch or hypnosis or a prescription anti-depressant. If they really wanted to, they'd stop.

How does that feel?

>Cruelty and prejudice are bad, but acceptance is also bad. We should not embrace self-inflicted illness as part of a rational range of choices or behaviors.<

Cruelty and prejudice should not be accepted in any society. Believing that more shaming and bullying of those who are overweight is a solution says something about your beliefs that fat is a moral failing. "Acceptance is also bad"? Well, screw those fat people for even attempting to love themselves. They should live in misery every single day of their lives!

Those of us who have chronic illness that affect or prevent significant weight loss really don't appreciate your characterizations.

[Tailormyst]

102. It's not just a matter of willpower - its not like quitting smoking or drugs.

It's FAR more complex then that. And I will also point out that bashing just causes us to become more depressed and withdrawn then we already are.

I fight every single day and monitor EVERYTHING that goes into my mouth while trying to beat this. The last time I was in a gym I heard the giggling jock girls on the other side of the lockers, one saying to the other "If I EVER end up looking like that, just shoot me, 'kay?". I never went back. Words hurt.

[uncommon]

106. It's different because everyone still needs to eat. You can't quit eating cold turkey.

You can make changes, of course, if you have the financial power and knowledge to do so. But you will never be able to just put it behind you like you might be able to with cigarettes or alcohol.

[SOS]

67. Money

The corporate/state doesn't care if we smoke two packs a day, drink a fifth of whiskey a day or are overweight.
They could not possibly care less about our well-being.
Just try getting help for any of these conditions.
There is none.

The vitriol is generated by insurance company PR firms.
They don't care if we live or die, they just don't want to pay for emphysema, cirrhosis and diabetes treatment.

[Orsino]

69. To reinforce the pecking order.

The TV issues orders, and we can but follow them.

[Javaman]

74. I'm not fat but I have been bald since I was 5...

If you aren't, what society deems "normal", then you will be subject to all sorts of harassment.

Fat, old, bald, slow, unibrow, big head, small head, no boobs, big boobs, whatever, you will be the object of scorn throughout a good portion of your life. Whether it's when you are young, old or your whole life, the bottom line we are a cruel species.

And people will say, "well overweight people are subject to social norms of the times, just like the rest of us. Once upon a time being overweight was looked upon as good". Sadly, no, those in power that were overweight were the only ones looked upon as "good". The average person no so much.

I have been the victim of fights, threats, public ridicule and alienation because of my baldness.

Now, people will tell me, which I absolutely hate, "well, baldness is in!" Let me tell you something, baldness has never been "in", it's just been accepted recently, especially as our population ages. More people are bald due to age.

Several actors have made it popular so therefore, people equate that is as being "in". When as a 9 year old and the only other people I knew that were bald were Yul Brynner and Telly Savalas, how does a child even relate to them?

The bottom line is: society is cruel and cruel in such a way to make those making the remarks feel better about themselves or cover for their own short comings.

Life is a pain in the ass, but it's also what we choose to make of it.

I got tired of the fights and chose to become a pacifist. I chose not to let the cruel accusations of being called a skinhead or a nazi get to me, because I knew I was not. That I was a good person. And you know what? that's all that mattered.

To quote my incredible mom, "who gives a damn what other people think? What matters is how you are as a person".

I have a tougher shell than most. I now feel sorry for those people who feel the need to hurl hurtful things. They should have our pity.

There will always be dick heads out there, but you don't have to let them get the best of you.

My baldness, through out my life, taught me many many life lessons. First and foremost, it's not the package, it's the contents that matter. :)

Cheers to you all.

[blueamy66]

83. Great post.

Spot on.

I used to care when people asked "You're so tall...do you play basketball?" and/or "You are so stick thin...do you have an eating disorder?"...or "Look at those knobby knees..."

People are going to be hateful and hurtful...I just learned to move on ....

[happy_liberal]

76. the whole thing is orchestrated by the media and perpetuated by the FDA

The incessant thinness coupled with constant food commercials is all designed to make you feel inadequate. And because you feel inadequate, you will buy what you see on the commercials because it will make you feel slightly better for about a minute.

The media also pushes the meanness that allows people to be utter fucking jerks to each other, which I believe comes from reality shows and the like, and the lack of any leader in this country who puts moral values and humanity over the almighty dollar doesn't help.

The FDA is allowing our food supply to be filled with crap, clearly contributing to the problem. From the high fructose corn syrup to the BPA lining every can(hormone disruptor-is this why everyone is depressed?)...to the GM foods laced with roundup that other countries will not touch. All of these things are interfering with our systems. GM foods were found to cause organ damage in mice. Who the freak knows what is going on with our food supply, the FDA sure as hell isn't looking into it.

And all this bickering and division is exactly what our elite controllers want. We are much more easily controlled when we are fighting each other over stupid stuff...no one is looking at the big picture...

[distantearlywarning]

86. Agree 100% with this post.

Get people worrying constantly about what they and others look like, and they won't have time or energy to worry about things that are actually important.

[guitar man]

96. No fat bashing from me

My wife is a big woman and I like it that way :evilgrin:

[spinbaby]

100. It's very much a social class thing

Rich people are mosty thin; poor people are mostly fat.

Rich people can eat well; poor people live on cheap stuff like ramen and Taco Bell.

Rich people can join gyms and hire personal trainers; poor people are tired after working three jobs.

Rich people can afford medical care, thyroid treatment, and gastric bypass; poor people suffer with chronic conditions.

Rich people are largely free of stress; poor people have everyday, cortisol pumping, neverending stress.

Rich people can afford active amusements like tennis and golf; poor people can afford TV.

Rich people can let their kids safely play outside; poor people park their kids in front of the safe TV.

[Vinca]

110. Bingo!

[JerseygirlCT]

111. Maybe that's why

Exactly as you say - cognitive dissonance. Mix that with a healthy measure of self-loathing, and there you have it.

I'm like you - in the past 2 years a medication I take, which is great for a whole lot of other reasons, has put 20 lbs on me. I hate it. I hate the way I feel and look. But by all objective measurements I'm still quite in the normal range - just higher than I was before. I look and see "FAT", though compared to most other people I see over the age of 22, (and plenty under), I'm not at all.

I think there's a great dissonance between what shiny movie stars and others in the media and just plain people look like, and I think the expectations to be more like the thin ones is strong. But our response is to give up - no way to look like that (and we probably shouldn't, anyway), so screw it all.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

115. Its not overweight that gets me, its obese

obesity is not something people should be ok with, much less prideful about. It can cause serious health issues, and costs everyone in the medical system money. I'm talking the 3 to 4 hundred pound fuckers that get handicap parking spots solely because they are obese, the ones that ride around walmart in those little carts eating handfuls of milanos (true story). The ones that complain about how people treat them and then get 3 biggie meals for themselves.

[Hello_Kitty]

118. Your concern for their health and wellbeing is so obvious. eom