It's getting to be about time to say this: You're either with us or you're against us

[Gman]

You're either a Democrat, or you support what Democrats want to do or you're against us and you will not support us. If you're against us you not vote for Democrats and you will help elect Republicans. You didn't learn from 2000 what happens when you don't support Democrats over Republicans.

You either support the president that is doing his dead level best to represent all the people, including those many, many millions that grind out the 8-5 while working for CORPORATIONS, or you don't. You either want to improve health care or you don't. You either support organized labor's objectives or you don't. You either want to create more jobs or you don't.

If you're against us, you're the enemy just like a Republican. It's that simple. You're either on the side of what's right or you're on the side that enables or even supports all the evil that the GOP represents.

Where will you be in November? With us or against us. There is no weaseling out with "I only vote for people who agree with me" or "they're all corporatists" or some other weasel crap like that.

[lame54]

1. I'll say it again - In 2008 I voted FOR the dems - this time...

I'm voting AGAINST the republicans

[Leopolds Ghost]

162. If this thread had been posted by a critic of the Administration, it would be called flamebait.

Like a certain other thread that contained nothing more than a cartoon... albeit, that could have been because it was considered a flame war due to the popularity of the subject. Which applies to this thread as well.

This thread has clearly "run its course." However, critics of the Administration's current policies do not believe in silencing or alerting on folks with differing opinions, even when they quote Bush.

BTW, Gman, why do you love the Democratic Party so much if you're not wedded to its platform?

[slay]

248. +1

saw it happen earlier this evening. did you check the list of new mods? many Dem apologists in that group. :eyes:

[havocmom]

266. Yep.

It would be locked or disappeared, much like this little reply might be.

[Name removed]

271. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

274. Deleted message

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[scheming daemons]

297. The charter of the site specifically talks about SUPPORTING DEMOCRATS

Why is that so hard for you to understand?


If you support Democrats, then you are on the side of the angels... according to the site.


If you DO NOT support Democrats, then you're at the wrong site.

[lame54]

308. they're getting my vote - that is support...

do I have to wear my cheerleader outfit to the polls?

[liberalmike27]

2. Of course I'll vote for democrats in the mid-term

But I'll be looking for a different primary opponent in the 2012 election. I hope an actual liberal wins, because the compromises that come from a right-of-center democrat, and a mad-filibustering minority sucks.

Living in Alabama, it really doesn't matter much. I just hope we can get Sparks in for governor. Personally, I think a strategy could be raised due to the oil spill, along the Gulf states, but what do I know.

[Leopolds Ghost]

166. Obama's written off the Gulf vote-wise. Every activist there is upset

They closed the MRGO, and that's about it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

216. To be fair, closing the MR-GO is a big-ass deal

But if voters and Obama's advisors don't know enough to *realize* what a big deal it is, and Obama doesn't go down there and attend the ribbon cutting that says to me it's not part of a coordinated effort.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_River_Gulf_Outlet

[RadiationTherapy]

3. I am a democrat by default.

But what I think democratic ideals are and what our elected officials produce are increasingly incongruent.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. 'Tis the season for Loyalty Oaths.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[Gman]

7. John Quincy Adams, et al never elaborated on how principle

can help create a job, pay the rent, put food on the table and provide health coverage for yourself and your family. No, but he had his principles, by golly. At least that I'm aware of.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Obviously, Jefferson and Adams failed the Woodchuck course in "Principles? Who needs them?"

[phasma ex machina]

35. In this silly season strutting woodchucks boast, "Mission Accomplished." nt

[Gman]

51. I guess you don't know where they elaborated on how principles feed your family either

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

75. You're right! Old Tom just wrote about principles in the Declaration of Independence.

[closeupready]

171. LOL - good one.

:rofl: :yourock:

[Tailormyst]

32. You should be embarassed to have posted this thread.

Really, you should hang your head in shame.

[Gman]

47. LOL!!!!!!!!!

That's funny!!!!

[Javaman]

258. ? why is that the least bit funny?

You are basically asking for a loyalty oath.

Where do you want me to being as to how completely wrong that is?

[Bluebear]

321. +

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobbolink]

152. You would think.

Shades of *.

[Leopolds Ghost]

167. Yeah, what did John Quincy Adams know about the need to tax poor people who don't have health ins?

[MedicalAdmin]

180. Yah - Adams was a putz!

What did he ever do? Besides found a country.

But besides that?

[flyarm]

182. John Adams walked and rode a horse to Philly in the dead of winter to protect rights and principles.

from Mass...he walked the walk..

[LWolf]

49. +10

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. "You're either with us, or with the DLC"

Reminiscent of something I vaguely remember... hmm.

[MineralMan]

6. K&R

To no avail.

[Gman]

8. Just shows how messed up DU has become

It shows just how far DU has strayed from it's original mission.

[metapunditedgy]

69. Are you saying your OP represents the "original mission" of DU? Please... elaborate. n/t

[Gman]

81. You're new. You should've been there

The original mission of DU was damn sure not what DU has become now.

[Oregone]

88. What was DU's "original mission"?

I think this is OP worthy. You should start a new thread for that one. Just reply with a link

[Sebastian Doyle]

91. Well, I can tell you this for sure (about the "original mission")

It sure as fuck wasn't about parroting the fascist talking points of Ari FLIEscher, as the OP has done here.

[Oregone]

93. Hm. That may actually contradict the original mission directly

Oh. The irony.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oregone]

128. If the "original mission" was to combat the right-wing noise machine....

Then it follows we must carry out that mission by attacking these conservative values no matter what banner they may hide behind.

[dionysus]

129. so the Democratic party is right wing to you? do you advocate for its defeat?

[Oregone]

131. Why, thats called a straw man

There are most certainly elements within the party that advocate right-wing values (namely, privatization and escalation of imperialistic wars). That does not make the entire party "right wing", as you suggested I implied. What it does make the party is vulnerable to criticism from the true left (which is good for the party as a whole).

[Mithreal]

dionusus gets it and is the left's opposition

[DevonRex]

136. WTF? Dionysus is NOT the left's opposition! Where do you guys GET this lunacy?

What sort of alternate universe have you created for yourselves?

[dionysus]

139. the one where i'm alternately Skinner and\or Rahm...

:eyes:

[DevonRex]

145. LOL.

They need more :tinfoilhat:

[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MedicalAdmin]

183. Ummmmmm. The Democratic party is right wing.

Of course it is, but it is a kinder gentler, more humane right wing.

But they are right of center in the world wide scheme of things.

[Oregone]

199. Their predator drones have style and smarter bombs

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

280. And do it from the safety of Canada.

[Mithreal]

132. Yes, that's it, dionusus.

[dionysus]

140. well, a number of people here make their DU career advocating against democrats.

[Oregone]

146. Or against right-wing ideology that certain Democrats just happen to espouse

Hell, most expect the Republicans to be conservatives they don't want anything to do with. Its shocking and worth noting (to create momentum for change) when it comes from their own party

[LoZoccolo]

188. And admit it outside of DU. n/t

[dionysus]

208. they rival Oasis in their lack of dignity and class...

:D

[Sebastian Doyle]

159. I have done nothing to "tear down the Democratic party"

and do not appreciate the hostile callout based on such a falsehood.

I've been a Democrat since I was 14. Unofficially before that, but you can't actually join the Young Democrats until then.

I remain proud of Democrats who ACT like Democrats. As the signature says, I'm a proud member of the DEMOCRATIC wing of the Democratic party.

The party of FDR, Truman, JFK, Paul Wellstone, Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold, Alan Grayson, and Howard Dean. Among others.

[flyarm]

186. +1 million! this is a disgrace this op..it makes my stomach turn! in a very bad way! eom

[Hell Hath No Fury]

105. From my memory --

the original "mission" of DU was to be a gathering place for for progressives/liberals and those opposed to the the Bush Admnistration. Back in the day that meant Greens, Indies, and even a few GOPers hung out here and were welcomed.

I still love the original mission of DU -- too bad it has turned into such a Party tool. :shrug:

[Gman]

114. No, it didn't

Originally that did NOT mean Greens or Indies. The wound was too fresh from how Greens helped elect Bush with Nader. A lot of Greens and indies were banned back then. The wording about "like minded" and so on was added 2 or 3 years later.

[Oregone]

125. I think you are wrong

The Democratic Underground Manifesto

lib.er.al adj., belonging to the people, free, to grow up, rise 1. suitable for a free man; not restricted 2. giving freely; generous 3. large or plentiful; ample; abundant 4. not strict 5. tolerant of views differing from one's own; broad-minded 6. of democratic forms of government 7. favoring reform or progress; specif., favoring political reforms tending toward democracy and personal freedom for the individual; progressive

con.ser.va.tive adj., 1. preservative 2. tending to resist or oppose any changes in established traditions or institutions 3. generally large waisted 4. maligning people of different color, nationality, religion, and/or sexual orientation 5. feeling victimized by those of lower social standing 6. shouldering unusual amounts of paranoia/fireams 7. irrationally terrified of a) government subversion b) communist invasion c) homeless people

The conservatives have turned "liberal" into a dirty word, and we're taking it back. We of the Democratic Underground have decided the time has finally come to lower ourselves to their level. We're talking all out, balls-to-the-wall, light-the-fuse-and-stand-well-back thermonuclear partisan warfare.

No longer will we shrug our shoulders as Rush Limbaugh blithely tosses out another line about "liberal hypocrisy". No longer will we nod and smile politely as Robert Novak body-slams our ideals, kicks them in the crotch, and then pisses all over them.

They think that it's every man for himself, and screw you, Jim. They want the government to keep its nose out of your business - as long as your business isn't listening to rap music, or medical marijuana use, or preventing an unwanted pregnancy, or not wishing to be forced to pray in school. They want the States to have absolute control over their own destinies, as long as it doesn't get in the way of fixing a Presidential election (and they said Al Gore wanted to win at any cost).

They're hypocrites of the very worst kind. They think that claiming the high ground means you sling shit until there's a big enough pile to stand on.

Well we're sick of it. Not just because they're wrong, but because, let's face it, they're having way more fun than we are. Not only did they steal the election but they got to call us stupid while they were doing it, and now they're going to squander eight years of peace and prosperity.

Understand, it's not Democratic Underground's job to stop them - there are plenty of people around who are far better organized for that. But we can stop them from getting away with it. Every time an immigrant maid, or a tobacco company payoff, or an inconvenient DUI (or two) comes along, we'll remember - and we'll be here for you to vent your spleen. To paraphrase the greatest politician of our time: we feel your pain.

So let go of those bi-partisan feelings, people. Get in the forums and blow off some steam. It's time to stop beating ourselves up and start swinging in their direction...

The Staff of Democratic Underground

http://web.archive.org/web/20010219071508/www.democraticunderground.com/about.html


The original manifesto was simply about liberals (which is VERY broad) lashing back at conservatives for the most part. That seems to be the "original mission" according to the down n dirty source.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oregone]

9. Oh God. Too funny

"You either support the president that is doing his dead level best to represent all the people, including those many, many millions that grind out the 8-5 while working for CORPORATIONS, or you don't."

"You either want to improve health care or you don't."

:rofl:

How can you make two back to back statements that conflict with each other? Then you moved on to labor.

Oh God....stop...my side hurts

[Gman]

12. There's too many like you that don't get it

too bad for the country.

[Edweird]

18. Support for RW policy is what's bad for the country. Coming from Dems it's abhorrent.

[Oregone]

19. You need to go Political Vigilante on their asses

Break into their homes, strap them to the couch, and play this Administrations 100 greatest hits for them.

Or at least just the unemployed ones; not like they got a job to get to.

Then you can save the country.

[stranger81]

110. Pot. Kettle. Black.

I feel exactly the same way about people who "think" the way you do.

[CreekDog]

10. Saying "you're either with us or against us" never has the intended effect

and usually encourages the opposite.

retire this stupid phrase, and especially if you want to help Democrats win.

[vanbean]

46. I'd vote for Charles Manson if he ran against a republican.

[LWolf]

54. Charles Manson? Really? nt

[Forkboy]

65. And that says it all.

[LostinVA]

73. OMFG

EPIC FAIL

[ima_sinnic]

86. that's only sensible!

:rofl:

FAIL

[CreekDog]

92. poor Elizabeth Edwards

disgraced again. :eyes:

[donco6]

103. And there you have it, folks.

We've all wondered what it would take to make someone stop and think about their support for a candidate. "Candidate X could kill and barbeque a puppy on stage and they'd still vote for him!" And now we know it's true.

[CreekDog]

137. But Candidate Y would bbq two puppies!

he must be stopped! sort of. :crazy:

[City of Mills]

141. I'd vote for Ozzy Osbourne if he ran against a republican.

Cause OZZY FUCKIN RULES!

[MedicalAdmin]

187. But only in the prison election.

Which is where a lot of repubs (and some DLC IMHO) belong.

[flyarm]

190. you do know that Charlies evil angels cut the belly of a pregnant woman's womb don't you ?

and murdered innocent people and smeared and wrote all over walls with their blood..

are you really this sick and pathetic and disgusting??

Wow some around here anymore make me sick to my stomach!

See a shrink! Now..you need it!

and don't come anywhere near me ..until you do!

[sabrina 1]

195. Wow! Charles Manson?

That explains a lot!

[girl gone mad]

206. Now that's just sad.

[ZombieHorde]

218. I'd vote for Sarah Palin if she ran against a Republican.

:sarcasm:

[Glassunion]

219. So... Using the OP's logic.

Hypotheticals of course.

If she ran for congress, and was up against a Republican.

You'd be an enemy of the Democratic party if you did not vote, as your abstinence is the same as handing the election to a Republican.
If you voted for the Republican you'd be an enemy to the Democratic party.
If you wrote yourself in you'd be an enemy of the democratic party because you are handing the election to the Republican.

Obviously voting for Sarah Palin would be the best thing to do for your country, but most of all your party.

[ZombieHorde]

220. "You're either with us or you're against us." nt

[AngryOldDem]

250. Blind party loyalty,

Gotta love it.

[unapatriciated]

278. So you don't care if your throat is slit as long as it isn't an R

holding the knife.

[Gman]

52. Rest very assured that there is no intended effect here

I promise you. You either have a conscience or you don't.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

79. Conscience? Is that like "principles"?

[CreekDog]

96. you're so moral that in the interest of furthering your goals of Democratic victories

you are willing to alienate potential voters in support of that cause.

i think that's what you might call "amoral"

[RainDog]

238. you say amoral, I say a-hola

he says, oh bite me, he's feeling woodchucky

amoral, a-hola
oh bite me, woodchucky...

let's call the whole thread off.

[flyarm]

215. conscience?? Charlie Manson..are you fucking kidding ?? Charlie slice and dice innocent people..are

for real?? Conscience around these parts don't exist with some around here anymore..

how sickening!

[unapatriciated]

290. the problem is we do have a conscience, and we will not sell out our fellow man.

[BuelahWitch]

11. Wow, who knew Ari Fleischer posted here?

UNREC!!!

[zipplewrath]

13. Um, not all the primaries are over ya know

You're a bit premature.

[Edweird]

14. Hm. Actually that needs to be directed at the politicians, not the voters.

"You're either a Democrat, or you support what Democrats want to do or you're against us and you will not support us."

Now, look at the current crop of 'Dems' and decide who gets supported and who doesn't.

[JustAnotherGen]

16. Great point Ed!

[Jax]

44. +1,000,000

well said ed.

This op is despicable but becoming typical here.

[Leopolds Ghost]

161. No, we don't have the right to pick and choose. We must choose the Party

Not the policy.

[MedicalAdmin]

189. Ja!

Seig Heil!!!

[flyarm]

192. EXCELLENT POINT!! thank you!

[spoony]

265. Excellent post. nt

[asdjrocky]

15. Now if only we could find some politicians to stand with us.

This kind of stuff never works for me.

[Ichingcarpenter]

23. He's talking about the Dinos I guess like Sen. Lincoln

Sen. Nelson and the Blue Dogs besides....'I'm a moderate and can't be for or against something while I stand in the middle of the road"

[asdjrocky]

26. Yeah.

None for me thanks. I have a brain.

[noamnety]

17. Oh good. Now DUers are quoting Bush.

That's perfect.

[Oregone]

20. Were going to smoke Green Party Members out!

[upi402]

21. I am speechless

The OP managed to silence me. Unreal. TV news has worked its little Bush-magic even here.

[flyarm]

217. You are not alone..I sat here looking at this thread a long time before posting..

and read through the entire thread..then I got mad as hell!

This thread is a lot of nerve..it is despicable!

I believe i need to re-assess where I post and what places I frequent..this place is getting hard to take!

Any more I come here and I feel sick to my stomach!

[LWolf]

55. Quoting Bush, and,

upthread, invoking Charles Manson.

[Dr. Strange]

181. I'd vote for George Bush if he ran against a Republican.

No, wait... :crazy:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

24. I'm Big D all the way. But this is the first time in 43 years I'll have to hold my nose.

[Gman]

50. I've held my nose many times over the last 38 years

and I'll do it again this year. But I'll be damned if I enable electing republicans.

[DevonRex]

113. +1. nt

[PassingFair]

177. You mimic their top-down, "muscular" political tone.

You are enabling republicans by alienating
thinking voters.

[flyarm]

193. you already are enabling them with your attitude and your op..

you couldn't sound more like a republican if you tried!

[superduperfarleft]

25. Yawn. n/t

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tailormyst]

28. FAIL

Your post is a failure.

Your logic is a failure.

Good thing you are not in charge.

Again, FAIL.

Give GW and Cheney a call, I bet they will approve of your post!

[peacetalksforall]

29. Anything done that was good was 100% wiped out with the Habeas Corpus and other decisions.

There is a deficit in what I believe Democrats stand for. No speeches are going to make up for it.

There is a deficit of justice for protesters, also.

The Party and Administration is not Democrat it is the Republican Lite to Heavy Party.

We're not talking faux pas's. We're talking deliberate decisions. Especially Afghanistan right after the Habeas Corpus. I need a list, but even if I had one, I wouldn't be able to score them ten through one of twenty-five thouirh one, they all stand athe the top for me. The word unbelievable fits, but isn't even strong enough.

Why did we spend eight years hurting under Cheney for a continuation of what Cheney did?

Why does everyone say the opposite of voting Democrat is voting Republican. The third choice is dropping out like the hundreds I've known who have done that. Turning it all off. I'm not the type. The best thing I can do is speak out against what I abhor.

[burnsei sensei]

34. +1

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. ...

:eyes:

[Greyhound]

31. And yet they have done none of those things and have sewed the seeds of more misery to come. n/t

[VMI Dem]

33. I will no longer vote for bigots or warmongers just because they have a "D" beside their names.

Fuck that.

[upi402]

36. +1,000 ^

DU will run a lot of us off I guess, with their new policy.

[Dappleganger]

41. You got it.

I learned this the hard way in FL, too.

[LostinVA]

74. !!!!!

[scheming daemons]

298. Your only other choice is the ones with an "R" next to their name.... or staying home

...

[jgraz]

37. Next post? Could you please moronically edit a Tom Tomorrow cartoon?

It would be less of an Epic Fail than this.

[Mithreal]

85. Someone light the batshit signal!

Or pm you know who.

[Xithras]

38. Ich schwöre

Ich schwöre: Ich werde treu und gehorsam zu dem Führer der Demokratischen Partei und des Volkes, Barack Obama, das Gesetz zu beobachten sein, und meine Pflichten gewissenhaft erfüllen, so wahr mir Gott helfe!


This seems to be what you're looking for. Godwin can kiss my arse, you went there first. Loyalty Oaths are for fascists.

[Dappleganger]

39. "You're either with us or against us."

Hmmm, I recall a certain president who said that a couple of years ago who misled us into two unjustified wars.

If I am against what you define as a democrat that makes me a republican? Enjoy the koolaide.

[Prism]

40. I am very much against you, yes

Still voting for a Democrat this fall, though.

You? I'm categorically against in every way that matters.

[vanbean]

42. I only vote straight tickets. Always have, always will.

[Gman]

56. I don't remember not voting straight party Democrat in 38 years

[Javaman]

256. Using double negatives will get you no where. nt

[flyarm]

197. and Charlie Manson if he was on your ticket..correct? Wow..sick puppy! eom

[LooseWilly]

244. Heh, ironic that the tickets you vote are referred to as "straight"

I'm not drawing any conclusions... just noting some irony.

Ohh yeah, and I think your Manson for President choice shows some real acumen... Manson wouldn't let minor details like civilian casualties get in the way of winning the war in Afghanistan. Or Iraq. Or Pakistan. Or Alabama. Or whatever... Helter Skelter... :tinfoilhat:

[Moondog]

43. Heh. Thanks for the laugh. n/t

[T Wolf]

45. If we need more progressives in Congress in order to pass liberal legislation,

how the hell does electing Mad Dogs and DLCers and other strains of DINO accomplish that intermediate goal?

I understand the "not voting equals voting puke" meme. I don't totally disagree with it but I think that the downside of re-electing the very people who, by voting against Democratic principles, do more to enable the enemy across the aisle than my non-vote, is far more destructive than temporarily having a puke (who votes the same) squat in the seat.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gman]

58. As you hide behind your keyboard

real brave.

[Mithreal]

60. And you aren't?

[leeroysphitz]

66. Same back at you. n/t

[noamnety]

80. "Real brave" quoth the chickenhawk. (nt)

[LostinVA]

70. hahahaha

Bravo!

[DevonRex]

119. Regarding civility:

Do not hurl insults at other individual members of this message board. Do not tell someone, "shut up," "screw you," "fuck off," "in your face," or some other insult.

[flyarm]

200. but saying someone would vote for Charlie Manson a cold blooded murderer is ok ..right??

pot meet sick pathetic kettle!
Civility is not telling other democrats "you are with us or against us"..that is fascist! And worse..it is Un-democratic!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

You support this shit... you support fascism!

[dionysus]

209. only if you're silly enough to take a figure of speech literally.

:shrug:

[flyarm]

229. Charlie Manson is no figure of speech! and the way it was used is not either!

back peddling much????????

pathetic..sincerely pathetic!~

[dionysus]

210. the cardboard-cutout-comrade tactic of labeling good dems facist is pretty lame.

[flyarm]

231. the comrade tactic used here by a certain number of people is not democratic ..in any way !

not anything democratic I have known as a card carrying democrat for 40 years!
If you think it is you are sorely mistaken!

[Mithreal]

57. Let's get real, the op is a joke at best. How much you want to bet

he or she is factionalizing just for the utter glee.

It's one thing to disagree between "sensible" types and principled types, it's quite another to just be a shrubby asshole.

[Gman]

64. I see you posted your hero there

you probably voted for Nader in 2000 to get him elected, didn't you?

[LostinVA]

72. I thought the USSC appointed GWB President

Not Nader.

[Raineyb]

95. They did but the truth doesn't matter at all to those who need their two minutes of

Nader hate. They're quite like Republicans that way. Impervious to facts.

[Mithreal]

83. Hahahhaahhaa, what I expected.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

87. Please explain how this post is even remotely appropriate. -nt

[IndianaGreen]

260. It is not, but some folks get immunity

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

261. I give the mods the benefit of doubt.

Too many alerts, some trollities fall through the cracks.

[joeybee12]

59. Yup, it's that simple, either you follow blindly and show you don't have a brain...

...or you vote for people who have principles and aren't trying to destroy what Democrats SHOULD stand for.

[EFerrari]

62. I'll never understand this impulse to order other people around.

Must be my hippie upbringing.

It's never really "time" to push people into a false dilemma. If you are compelled to try it, well, that must be unpleasant for you because people hardly ever do what you want them to do.

[City Lights]

63. Now where have I heard that before?

:freak:

[amborin]

67. LOL! now there's a sign of desperation!

[Forkboy]

68. LOL

[Jokerman]

71. Foolish, misguided and offensive.

Once you're finished purging the party of all independent thought, the few of you left can pat yourselves on the back for your ability to toe the party line. That's about all you'll get done.

[Golden Raisin]

76. Is there an "Enemies" List?

[Mithreal]

84. Yes, chuckles approved.

[flyarm]

201. no kidding..this is so out of line and inappropriate ..it disgusts me ..eom

[IndianaGreen]

222. Authoritarians always compile list of enemies.

Nixon did it!

We are all the Emmanuel Goldsteins of their universe!

[Hannah Bell]

77. time to say this: you're either with us or against us. if politicians promulgate policies

indistinguishable from republic ones, they should have no expectation of loyalty from democratic voters.

this is bullshit:

you're the enemy just like a Republican

[stranger81]

111. +1000 [n/t]

[Leopolds Ghost]

172. You mean it's time to say: the politicians are either with us or against us?

[flyarm]

204. + 1000..there are just no words to describe the disgusting op that was posted here.

in 40 years as a democrat..i never thought I would see this kind of shit from other so called democrats and I call them so called..because I know of no democrats like this OP and what they wrote!

It defies everything..EVERYTHING ..I have ever believed in as a democrat!

I hope some of the people who are saying "with us or against us" are happy they are alienating the very people THEY THINK they are intimidating into voting in NOV..they have turned me off even more than I thought I could be!

[jaxx]

78. I'll be voting Democrat right down the line.

The 8 years of BushCo are seared on my brain as don't ever let them in power again.

K&R but it didn't make a difference......well, it did to me. I've had it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

175. Do you seriously think the Republicans will not get back in office at some point?

You sound like a sports fan who believes last year's Super Bowl win must be duplicated or you will be angry... no offense. As a result, rebuilding the team is never a priority. Only short term goals of staying in office because "as bad as our team is, the other guy is 10x worse and the next guy will be 10x worse again." Whereupon our team can be 10x worse like the other guy, to catch up with the next guy. They're dragging you along with the frame of reference for discussion because of your unwillingness to take a step back. It's like a bargaining session where the other guy knows you will pay anything to purchase an item.

[jaxx]

253. Oh they'll get back in, but not this time or the next.

It'll take awhile longer for the left fringe to come around and meet the right fringe....then watch out, all hell will break loose and some will get their hearts desire of the Democrats losing. But not yet. Not yet. We still have a lot to get done before it goes back to the edge.

[Raineyb]

82. Asolutely disgusting!

K&U

I don't put up with that shit from Bush and I won't put up with it from you. I think you know exactly where you can stick that sentiment.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

89. When do the lobotomists arive?

[TBF]

90. I feel the same way, Gman. You are either with the owners or against them.

I am against the owners. I am pro-union, with the people.

I will support -

bailouts for wallstreet - not bankers
unemployment extensions
job creation with living wage jobs
universal health care (not the public option weasel crap)
public schools
social security/medicare


I am not for -

bankers
charter schools
the stock market

So, you DLC'ers decide how it's going to be. We "fucking retards" will stick together.

[emilyg]

94. Nobody will get my blind support. Earn it.

[Individualist]

97. Rahm, is that you? Unrec!

[Joe Fields]

98. I want to be the first to vote myself off your island...

[Mithreal]

101. +1

[Mithreal]

102. self-delete

Received an error, so duplicate posted, might as well use the opportunity.

[donco6]

99. What to you mean "about time"?

You guys have been beating that drum for months already.

[madinmaryland]

100. Nice post, Rove. "You're either with us or you're against us"

That sounds very non-sensible to me. Please keep that stuff out of here.

edited to add: Un-recommended.

[Bluebear]

104. Nice post, Ari Fleischer. nt

[myrna minx]

310. I guess we need to "watch what we say and watch what we do"

in this new DLC utopia.

This thread is horrifying.

[Forkboy]

313. Fuck that.

:)

[myrna minx]

317. I can't wait to read the fine prose of loyalty oaths.

:D

[kdmorris]

106. You didn't learn from 2000 what happens when you don't support Democrats over Republicans

Boy, do I ever get tired of this.

The only thing that 2000 showed us is the importance of choosing our Supreme Court justices with care and the need for IMPARTIAL Secretaries of the State.

You DO realize that, once all the votes were counted in Florida, using the standards that Florida had in place at the time that GORE WON ? Which, of course, means that, had the Supreme Court not STOPPED the recount on the most specious grounds possible and had Katherine Harris not certified the vote without counting all the votes, GORE would have been elected president.

Or maybe you don't realize that the consortium of newspapers finished counting all the votes after the election had already been decided and determined that Gore won Florida by the standard of "if you can discern the intent of the voter".

I did not vote for Nadar, but I get SO tired of everyone saying that 2000 proved that we all need to suck up to this two party system because Nadar cost Gore the Presidency. He didn't. Katherine Harris and the Supreme Court of the United States did.

[Leopolds Ghost]

179. Not to mention Bush's presidency was so damaging because of the cowardice and RWness of Blue Dogs

The same guys (Rahm, Reid et al) who are still in power.

Hell, they fought to pass FISA immunity from prosecution
for telecoms to allow spying on American citizens BEFORE
Obama got elected, AFTER Bush had given up on it. And
these same guys running the party (who kicked out Dean)
supported and fought for FISA.

Along with closing public housing, public schools,
permanent bases in Iraq, etc.

[kdmorris]

235. No kidding

I've tried to think of something more profound to say, but that's all I've got.

[OnyxCollie]

257. Rahm was the third largest recipient of campaign contributions

from telecoms before the FISA vote.

The domestic surveillance has been declared illegal and unconstitutional, first by Anna Diggs Taylor and recently by Vaughn Walker.

Dems covered up the crimes (expanding them later for their own use) and made sure their large campaign contributors got off scott-free.

I do not support the unDemocratic Party.

[flvegan]

107. My cat's breath smells like cat food.

[Bluenorthwest]

108. Yuck.

It is both the form and the function here that gets a big raspberry.

[dtexdem]

109. I'm a Dem, support Dem candidates, work for Dem candidates. But I reject this.

I REFUSE to participate in "with us or against us" Dem politics -- leave that to the GOP.

I'm also antiwar, and have for decades argued that the antiwar movement should not tie itself to the Dem Party.

I am pro-science, and have long argued that pro-science people should not tie themselves to the Dem Party.

I support many policies, and say that the Dem Party is important if and only if it can advance such policies.

I will not support "my party, right or wrong" any more than I will "my country, right or wrong."

[stranger81]

112. Don't know who the "us" is supposed to be, but I definitely don't stand with you.

And I expect most people to the left of, say, Grover Norquist will have exactly the same reaction to this ludicrous OP.

[DevonRex]

115. You're talking about November, the elections. Saying that if you don't vote D you're voting R.

Not voting is a vote for the Republicans. Voting third party is a vote for the Republicans.

I agree.

[dionysus]

120. CRUISE MISSELS!!!1!!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

122. ...

This place is getting dangerous. Are you in your bomb shelter? :hi:

[dionysus]

124. I've converted the basement bowling alley into a passable bunker. i have emergency truffles,

and a remote link to the cruise missle control pad in the upstairs chambers. hopefully i can hold out if i need to ;)

[DevonRex]

134. I'm in the billiard room.

Fully stocked with all the conveniences and outside access and a mechanical lift in case I need to get to the helipad. I don't have a control pad, though. That's one thing I forgot. Dammit.

[Oregone]

149. "Not voting is a vote for the Republicans. Voting third party is a vote for the Republicans."

Can you explain how that works with math?

:rofl:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

Woodchucxk Math is only understood by the cognoscenti who've bought the secret decoder ring.

[IndianaGreen]

223. The OP is a clusterchuck of chuckisms

Tally-ho!

[Leopolds Ghost]

184. The math is simple: Gman thinks Republicans have a shot at winning. Why is that?

[Oregone]

196. They've stuck to their gameplan and are now scared shitless

[dionysus]

116. .

:popcorn:

[DevonRex]

121. .

:beer:

[Ganja Ninja]

117. I just wish the Democratic party would poll their candidates on what they are ..

really willing to vote for and not sell us a party platform that they don't really support.

[dflprincess]

123. " You either want to improve health care or you don't. You either support organized labor's

objectives or you don't." I do support these issues - that's why I have a lot of problems with this administration.

I do no vote for Republicans and that includes the ones who put a "D" after their names.

[AlabamaLibrul]

127. Your OP is assuming a premise that is not necessarily reflected in the facts.

"You either support the president that is doing his dead level best to represent all the people, including those many, many millions that grind out the 8-5 while working for CORPORATIONS, or you don't. You either want to improve health care or you don't. You either support organized labor's objectives or you don't. You either want to create more jobs or you don't."

If I want a Thanksgiving dinner after all that hard work instead of a Big Mac, I guess I'm against the mysterious pluralized "you".

[DirkGently]

130. Exclusion is a self-defeating argument

No one ever gained an ally by threatening to treat someone as an enemy. The notion itself is repellent and anti-progressive.

[QC]

133. I found a moonrock in my nose. n/t

[Mithreal]

135. +1

:applause:

[Poll_Blind]

138. Loyalty oaths and hold your nose. Is it that time again already?

:shrug:

PB

[rucky]

From one school of binary thought to another.

Support for the party isn't tearing us apart. Narrow, and rigid thinking IS. That goes for both sides of this ridiculous "debate" we have every two years or so.

[defendandprotect]

142. We need to move Obama to the LEFT . . . or find another Dem candidate . . .

Whitehouse or Grayson are fine with me --

[Vinca]

143. For heaven's sake we're not freaking lemmings who'll follow

someone over a cliff just because they have a "D" after their name. For example, if I lived in Nebraska, there is no way in hell I would vote for Ben Nelson. Democrats must act like Democrats to get Democratic votes. I'll be voting against Republicans next election and that's all. My hope and change have up and left and it happened right after we were served up to big insurance on a platter.

[mdmc]

144. Obama will get my electoral vote

I won't be walking in Pike County, PA in 2012, but he will get my NYS electoral vote.

I will work hard to improve my health and to afford medical treatment.

[Dr.Phool]

147. Sounds like a David Frum speech.

You forgot about the Axis of Evil.

[Radical Activist]

148. I don't like it when some posters portray Obama supporters as "the other side"

and I don't care for this post either.

It's a matter of tactics. Some people think the way to get progressive results is to minimize and belittle everything Obama does so that people will be more aggressive about supporting their favored alternative (another bill, third party, direct action etc). I think that's a self-defeating strategy that keeps the left fighting each other until we become hopelessly cynical and irrelevant.

But we don't have to call them the enemy no matter how counterproductive the tactics may be.

[Mithreal]

151. +1 Chad gets it.

[BreweryYardRat]

153. "You didn't learn from 2000 what happens when you don't support Democrats over Republicans."

Exactly. When it comes to progress, we need to take what we can get, because that breaks ground for further improvement.

Not being able to make quick advances is a real bummer, but even slow improvement is better than no improvement at all or actually regressing.

Do we need to clear the corporatists out of the Democratic party? Oh, hell yes. We need more guys like Alan Grayson and fewer like Ben Nelson. But that's going to be a slow process.

Better someone that gives us a majority in the Senate (allowing us to pick committee chairs, etc...), and who may vote progressively at times, than a Republican obstructionist who won't do shit for us.

[Leopolds Ghost]

164. You don't have the power to clear out corporatists. They staged an internal party coup on Dean's ppl

After Obama got elected, he hired Rahm to clear out the Party infrastructure of the NON-corporatists, most of whom weren't even elected officials. They're on the sidelines now with you and me.

[depakid]

233. Like the OP- you're clueless about what happened- and seem determined to repeat it

Blur the contrast between the parties with DINO's (who even cross over and vote with Republicans) and that creates a political vacuum that someone and/or some party will fill.

Don't blame Nader and the Greens for that- it was (and is) the Democrats own doing- they created the constituency by incessant pandering to the right and the abandonment of traditional Democratic values and policies.

[Monique1]

154. I will vote Democratic

no way will I allow myself to sit back and let a repuke in office. Our country needs the Dems.

[Chisox08]

155. That sounds exactly like something Bush and Rove would say

Just swap out a few words and add smoke em out.

[quinnox]

156. Another unrec

Guess what, Democrats deserve to lose for their poor performance.

[Leopolds Ghost]

157. I take it you speak for HARD WORKERS who grind out 8-5, not those pussies who insist on 40hr week.

Lazy ducks, That's why they can't get a real job. Always demanding more from the party that owns them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

158. lol.

[IndianaGreen]

160. I am having flashbacks to Bush/Cheney regime

A noun, a verb, and 9-11.

[bobthedrummer]

163. There's a powerful political machine inside the Democratic Party that threw a lot of US under the

bus decades ago. That's why I'm an independent that fights the RW, Republicans, Teabaggers, Libertarians, Religious Right and the ideologues of DLCers.

Inconvenient truths about the New Democrats, the Third Way, Democratic Leadership Council, etc (started 3-7-08)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2973191

[Lucian]

165. I don't do loyalty oaths.

I support Kucinich Democrats 100%.

But I'll hold my nose and vote for the rest in November.

[Freddie Stubbs]

168. 'You are either with us or against us'

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/

Never thought I would see that quote here on DU used as a rallying cry.

[blindpig]

169. Didn't work out so well, huh?

Keep up the good work, you discredit everything you purport to stand for and that works for me.

[Lilith Velkor]

263. Word.

[Romulox]

170. Sloan: "Either you're with us, or you're not/ Sometimes lately I just wanna be caught!!!"

Sloan--Right or Wrong

Ten years ahead of our time
Or about one year behind
Sometimes it tends to get to me
But don't dare bite the hand that leads
To the light
Of renown
It's a battle that won't make any sound
Either you're with us
Or you're not
Sometimes lately I just wanna be caught

Right or wrong
We're breaking their hearts again
Wonder what you're waiting for
Right or wrong
We're breaking their hearts again now
Yeah now
Yeah now

This one's for the girls
There's no particular one in the world
'Til I got a glimpse of what could be
I was shocked by what I couldn't forsee
And in spite
Of the times
I never really wanna come round
You're always with me
When you're not
Lights are up, we're all gonna be caught

Right or wrong
You're breaking our hearts again
Wonder what you're waiting for
Right or wrong
You're breaking our hearts again now
Yeah now
Yeah now

Mysterious missives, not unlike a dream
Sooner or later we'll be singing for free
Right or wrong
We're breaking their hearts again now
Yeah now
Yeah now

Right or wrong
We're breaking their hearts again
Wonder what you're waiting for
Right or wrong
We're breaking their hearts again now
Yeah now
Yeah now
Right or wrong
Right or wrong
Right or wrong



:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

[LanternWaste]

173. Ban any DUer who refuses to answer...

I think maybe you should form an investigating committee-- The DU Un-Americans Committee for example. Have lists of suspicious names traded back and forth, muse that "Mr. Euripides" preached profit over all else, call out suspected subversives and undesirables (you can call them trolls to better assuage your own honor), maybe ask Sen. Rankin for his assistance too. Ask Skinner to ban anyone who refuses to answer the question-- after all, it's about loyalty.

It's that simple, also...

ed: sp

[Autumn]

174. Now let me see, where have I heard that

before? On this Rovian bullshit statement, I am against you 100%. I will support the Democrats who support me and who will further my goals. If there isn't one, I will stay home.

[mitchtv]

176. In Nov. I will vote for the Dems I like

which in Cal, is most of the slate. we have a homphobic state senate candidate who i will not vote for. I haven't decided to write in or leave blank .I hate him so much I am tempted to vote R( which I don't do, but this time, it's different)

[MedicalAdmin]

178. Thank you Mr. Beck.

Nice to see your viewpoint so eloquently spoken on DU.

[Name removed]

185. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Oregone]

198. What's a splinterist?

Is that what happen when you rub your ass on rough wood?

[thelordofhell]

191. The difference between Democrats and republicans

The Democrat MIGHT do something you don't like.

The republican WILL do something you don't like.

If you don't like a certain Democratic politician in your area, then find and support a Democratic politician in you area that you do like and help them win the primary. But if the choice in the general election is either republican or Democrat you don't like, it should be a no-brainer to vote for the Democrat.

[TheManInTheMac]

194. Jesus Christ! What is happening to this place? n/t

[Shining Jack]

202. Oops !

You forgot to mention something that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

[branders seine]

203. Yup. It's time. You, Gman, are either a principled Democrat

or a DINO. Which is it gonna be? C'mon. We don't have all day.

[John Agar]

205. I have no choice but to vote Democratic in the coming mid-terms.

Not because the Democrats are doing such a bang-up job.

But because the Republicans are insane.

This is not an ideal or sustainable situation IMO.

[Bryn]

207. You can preach until your face turns blue

I *will not* hold my nose to vote for Blanche Lincoln! She hasn't earned my vote. Someone else certainly has.

[Glassunion]

211. Delete... (Dupe)

[Glassunion]

212. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." - Obi-Wan

"It's getting to be about time to say this: You're either with us or you're against us" - Statements like this depict situations as being polarized and are immature attempts to force witnesses and bystanders to become allies or lose favor. Basically implied that the consequence of not joining the team effort is to be deemed an enemy of the team. One question though. What if someone on the team is not carrying their weight? Or what if they are working against the team? I HAVE to let them continue to play solely on the fact that they have on the same jersey? What good will that do?

"You're either a Democrat, or you support what Democrats want to do or you're against us and you will not support us." - Again, same false dilemma. I will not support a team member who does not support the team. Does this mean that by not supporting a member of the team that does not support the team that I am now somehow against the team? No, it does not.

"If you're against us you not vote for Democrats and you will help elect Republicans. You didn't learn from 2000 what happens when you don't support Democrats over Republicans." - So if I don't vote for a right-wing Democrat, I am working against the Democratic cause or beliefs?

"You either support the president that is doing his dead level best to represent all the people, including those many, many millions that grind out the 8-5 while working for CORPORATIONS, or you don't. You either want to improve health care or you don't. You either support organized labor's objectives or you don't. You either want to create more jobs or you don't." - I do want those things. Can that be said of all of the Democrats up for election this cycle? No, it can not.

"If you're against us, you're the enemy just like a Republican. It's that simple." - Since I don't agree 100% with the platform, I sit at around 95%, I am an enemy to the Democratic party? I don't think so.

"You're either on the side of what's right or you're on the side that enables or even supports all the evil that the GOP represents." - See here is where you hit with a false dillema again. What exactly is right? Your idea of right, my idea of right? You see every single person has different ideas of what they think is right. Even in the Democratic party. I don't think that the Arizona Immigration laws are right. Problem is that my Democratic Congressman thinks that they are. Who is right? Am I right for disagreeing with the law or is my congressman right for wearing the blue jersey?

"Where will you be in November? With us or against us. There is no weaseling out with "I only vote for people who agree with me" or "they're all corporatists" or some other weasel crap like that." - I'll tell you where I will be. I will be in the voting booth, voting for those who share my views of what is right. If neither candidate is a good choice, niether will receive my vote. Not voting does not make me an enemy of the Party, it makes me a champion of it.

[IndianaGreen]

221. K&R your most excellent post!

Your Obi-Wan quote is a winner!

[Glassunion]

239. Good relations with the Wookiees, I have.

Does an enemy of the party this make me?

[Prometheus Bound]

213. Bet this one never makes it into positive rec territory.

Thank goodness!

[Bluenorthwest]

214. Hey, was this the reaction you wanted?

It is fun to see all the people who find your message and style to be ojectionable. Encouraging to see you so fiercely rejected here today.

[Warren Stupidity]

224. just curious why the only uppercase word in your attack essay

is CORPORATIONS?

Oh wait, I see, if we object to the stunning corruption of congress we are 'weasel crap', is that it?

[IndianaGreen]

227. Interesting observation there, WS.

Perhaps the OP shares the view that if one works for a corporation for $8 an hour, as many hotel workers do in my state, then one is a corporatist by definition. Very bizarre twisting of the language, I'll say.

[Canuckistanian]

225. Absolutism - it's not just for breakfast anymore

Now it seems to be a lifestyle for certain people.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

226. I'd love to be with "us" with you, but you always leave me on the outside looking in

You're the one denying me inclusion in the "us"

when you make healthcare reform a joke

when you delay jobless benefits and act like people are poker chips in a political game,

when you continue disgusting policies of your predecessors

when you favor the favored and surround yourself with them

when you negotiate with yourself to my detriment and pretend it was the only option

when you dismantle public education

when you privatize profits yet socialize losses

when you insult and ridicule me

when you threaten me with exclusion

Please, how could I be excluded anymore than I am?

[IndianaGreen]

228. K&R

Well said!

[unapatriciated]

268. perfect response.

yes how can we be excluded anymore than we already are.
The op has just proven what most of us have been saying for a long time.
Many in are party support * talking points and try to convince us it is in our best interest.
When that doesn't work they demand loyalty oaths.

[branders seine]

230. "Weasel" is a fine word.

and an admirable animal. Not exactly a wolverine, or a wombat, but weasel is a fine word.

Is that you Ari?

:rofl:

[depakid]

232. Nice- drive even more wedges through Democratic constituencies

btw: the way you've framed it I'm definitely your enemy and have been and will be working hard against what people like you stand for.

Which is basically nothing at all other than blind partisanship and flag waving.

[sendero]

234. Democrats I will support..

.. the current crop of DINOs, especially the DINO at the top, will not get my support.

[walldude]

236. So it's march in lock step or you are against us?

Then it looks like you just lost me.

You either want to improve health care or you don't. You either support organized labor's objectives or you don't. You either want to create more jobs or you don't.

Well, when you find me a politician who actually does those things, I'll be at the front of the support line.

[TheKentuckian]

237. Hows that ticker, Dick?

I'm agin ya but I'm voting for Yarmouth and for Conway (and against Randroid).

Let there be no question that I'm against YOU though. Deadset, Yankees/BoSox, Hagler/Leonard, Hatfield and McCoys against YOU and your ilk.

[moksha]

240. Nice post, dubya.

[akbacchus_BC]

241. That's Bush Jnr talking point, am surprised it is being entertained here!

[akbacchus_BC]

242. People like you are not helping the President as your talking point

is personal and even President Obama would disagree with your statement. You are not helping him, you are hindering him with such an obtuse statement, taken right out of the Bush jnr talking points!

It is people like you who are beginning to lessen other Democrats and Liberals support for the President. Think before you write an obtuse op!

[QC]

243. You forgot the bit about smokin' em outta their holes. n/t

[DireStrike]

245. Wow

I hope this is a troll post. If it doesn't turn out to be, I will have my first ever ignored user. I never thought it would happen.

[Lilith Velkor]

246. Sieg heil, bitch.

[slay]

247. Is this a joke?

so you're quoting Bush the Dumber now - "with us or against us"? That's a hell of a bad way to convince people to vote Dem. Look, I'll make this very simple for you. Either the Dems will earn my vote, or they won't. What I can guarantee you will NOT happen - is I will not be pressured by some post on an internet message board to vote one way or the other. Not all Dems are good. I might not vote all Dems - I can't if I want to vote for the great independent senator Bernie Sanders. So in short, I guess I'm your enemy huckleberry. :evilgrin:

[RedCappedBandit]

249. Cool story, Gman

"You're either on the side of what's right or you're on the side that enables or even supports all the evil that the GOP represents. "


:rofl:

How pretentious.

[mmonk]

251. Then I would have to be against if you put it that way.

The decision is yours. If you want me, I have to matter.

[Stinky The Clown]

252. I WISH this post a thousand recs. Hold it up for EVERYONE to see it.

"With us or against us"?

Are you FUCKING serious??????

Actually, I think you *were* serious.

[AngryOldDem]

255. When I mentioned this thread to someone who posts here infrequently....

...he flipped the bird -- his response to this right-wing style of bullshit. Don't look for him to be posting here anymore anytime soon.

This site is becoming unrecognizable, but please, keep up the good fight.

ON EDIT: Pissing off your base -- or more to the point, forgetting or not caring who your base is -- is a sure way to EPIC FAIL.

[Javaman]

254. Stop equating nationalism with party devotion. It's very unattractive.

Black and white thinking is what got us in the current mess.

If you are unable to think in shades of gray, then you have completely forgotten the run up to the iraq war and all the bullshit that was spewed at us from the right, basically using your same argument.

Critical thought is not an art form, it just requires and open mind.

Upon edit: I'm going to put you on ignore, I really don't care to have such blatant ignorance in my life. I put up with it for 8 long years from moron* and his room full of dopes, I don't need to put up with it here on DU.

Ta!

[upi402]

259. I wondered if this was flamebait

as I was frozen in shock by the OP.

This is not the same DU, just as this is not the same country in which I grew up. I feel pretty damn marginalized -and that on my good days.
I used to use ignore so I wouldn't get myself banned. Now I feel that my duty to confront corporate take-over of the Democratic Party trumps my waning appreciation of my privileges on this site.

edit to note: The OP, gman, has been a member since 2001.

[hamsterjill]

262. Dems are still better than the alternatives!

I have many complaints about the Dems right now, but I will most certainly be at the poles voting FOR them. The alternative is simply unthinkable.

[TheWatcher]

264. We Must Become The Monster In Order To Defeat It.

No Thanks.

Congratulations, You've just become what you claim to be against.

The Terrorists really HAVE Won.

And not the mythical fantasy ones that live in caves.

[unapatriciated]

267. I have been on the side of what is right for thirty years.

civil rights and that means equal rights for all.

ending these unjust wars (most of us agreed on that under bush)

Health Care for all (I keep hearing this is a work in progress be patient)

ending poverty

restoring Habeas Corpus

Dismantling the Patriot Act ( again most of us wanted that under bush)

My vote is mine and no one not even the Democratic Party has a right to demand it. My vote is earned by those who continue to have the same values that I have had for thirty years.

So the question should be do we support our core values or compromise them.

Who are you to demand I change my values of thirty years.

[Spheric]

269. Thank you for the simplification. "W" would be proud. /nt

[laughingliberal]

270. This is like, "Aren't Republicans awful? How can we be just like them?" nt

[meow mix]

272. isnt it funny how voting dem has gone from "hope and change" to issuing these fearful threats.

bwhahahahaha. shows an epic failure imo

[saracat]

273. Wow. What if you are a Dem, who is voting Dem and is working for Dem's but who doesn't

believe the president IS doing his "level best"? What if you support organized labor and don't like the way the teachers unions are being treated because you don't think that is supportive of "the objectives of organized labor"? Is there any place for such a person or are we the enemy too? I will be voting Dem in Noivember but I do NOT have to agree with everything every Democrat does.

[laughingliberal]

275. +10,000 nt

[Spheric]

277. +1 Mostly Dem anyways.

It strike me as bizarre that we are not allowed to try and change the Democratic party from within and at the same time we are not allowed to leave the party.

WTF?

[Dinger]

276. WTF? (nt)

[marmar]

279. Daft. Truly daft.

:thumbsdown:

[unapatriciated]

281. from the looks of this thread

You're either with us or you're against us, demand is not working.
To call us the enemy when many of us have and still do....
support labor (spent 4 months on a picket line in blizzard conditions).
support health care for all, not just insurance reform (advocated for this since 1991 when my insurance company first started denying and delaying care for my son)
So if we are the enemy because we fight for these causes as well as equal rights, a living wage, end to poverty, an end to these unjust wars I could go on and on but doubt that you care. I wonder who these enablers you speak of really are.

How much are you willing to compromise on before you stand up to the dinos masquerading as Dems.

[Dinger]

283. You're Right, And This Thread Also Makes Me Wonder. (nt)

[unapatriciated]

284. why it is still standing.

Why when so many of us are insulted by these blatant continuous call out threads. Threads by those who think the definition of a Dem is to never question policy even when it goes against every thing the party has stood for since FDR.

[Prometheus Bound]

288. Because it has a powerful message. Look, 286 posts, and not one agrees with the OP.

At least I didn't see any.

[unapatriciated]

289. I count five or six supporters

and yes it is a powerful message that we Dems will not be bullied or threatened to sit down and stfu. It is not in our nature (those of us who have been around since the 60's) to stfu when it comes to policies that enable the right to continue their agenda that has devastated so many for so long.
A message that those handful of poster who continue posting these type of threads are unwilling to hear.

[Prometheus Bound]

292. Oh I see. I missed those.

Still it's impressive how thoroughly rejected this _____ was. (I don't know how to classify it in a single word)

[Laelth]

282. Vomit. n/t

:puke:

-Laelth

[Prometheus Bound]

287. Self-delete. dupe

[Zenlitened]

285. Unreich. - n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

286. In other words... silly season is on

thanks for the line on the sand.

By the way, son... let me highly recommend you read a classic... The True Believer by Eric Hoffer

[Ross K]

291. Sounds kinda Bushy

:-(

[Sapphocrat]

293. I'm curious.

What did you hope to accomplish with your OP?

What did you intend the end result to be?

Asked in all seriousness and sincerity. I'd really like to understand what you thought you were going to achieve with this.

[Gman]

294. Awareness that the trashing of Obama and the Democratic Party

accomplishes nothing but to help elect Republicans. Then again, I also like to beat my head with a 9 lb. hammer on occasion. Kinda accomplishes the same thing.

[Shining Jack]

303. "accomplishes nothing but to help elect Republicans."

You're OP is very efficient at doing just that.

[Gman]

318. What? You'd vote Republican just for spite or something?

Jeezzz...

[Sapphocrat]

304. Well, that's kind of a leap...

...that "the trashing of Obama and the Democratic Party accomplishes nothing but to help elect Republicans" -- which is in itself debatable, but that's your opinion, and would be pretty pointless to debate, as we would be coming from two very different POVs on what is "trashing" and what is "constructive criticism" -- so let's just leave that lie there, OK?

No, what I meant was:

What was the optimum end result you were hoping to get from your OP? For instance, that a few disillusioned Dems would have an epiphany of some sort? Or that, no matter how sharp their disappointment, they would (even grudgingly) publicly pledge their loyalty to the party and commit to voting a straight D ticket?

I'm asking not to divert you, but because I'm so puzzled by your approach.

[NMMNG]

295. Whatever you say Mein Fuhrer

:eyes:


Really, the threats didn't work before so why do you think they'll work now?

[JohnnyLib2]

296. My mind just doesn't work that way.

Yes/no; in/out; black or white with no shades of gray...........can't think that way. I figure that's why I've aligned with Democrats all these years. :shrug:

[NMMNG]

299. This isn't your daddy's Democratic Party

The party has lurched so far right it's pretty much abandoned its original values and crossed over. It's truly sad to see "Democrats" spewing the exact same talking points as far-right Republicans.

[Shining Jack]

305. +1 n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

306. Painfully obvious, isn't it?

The OP is a jaw-dropper, for sure.

[Catherina]

300. The tired smell of desperation when you realize you've been burning bridges. n/t

[Chan790]

301. After reading this entire thread...

the nicest thing I could say to you is "Get fucked". You've managed to corner the markets on being patronizing and idiocy.

It's because of pragmatic morons like you rooting for the right laundry that we're being sucked to the right by nefarious Wall St. interests.

No, I don't vote based on labels. I vote based on positions and principles.

[sendero]

302. Just like George Bush Shrub said..

... and about as intelligent.

[bvar22]

307. I'm glad this post didn't get locked!

Not for the OP,
but for the responses.

The unlearned lesson from 2000:
If the Centrist Democratic Party creates a vacuum on The Left,
someone will fill it.
Its Physics.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[Bluebear]

309. Thank you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

311. It's about time to say this: I own my vote not The Party.

“Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently.“ - Rosa Luxemburg

[montanto]

312. No.

It's not time to say that. It's never time to say that.

[krabigirl]

314. Nope. Sorry, I will give my vote to the candidate who shares my views.

Mainly, getting the heck out of these two wars.

[NightWatcher]

315. Planning a purger of dissenters or doubters because we dont worship all things Dem without question?

I dont do loyalty oaths, but let me know if you want me to leave.

I'm still not in favor of war, regardless of who the President happens to be

[NNN0LHI]

316. Who are you talking to?

Think about it. Who are you actually talking to on a political Internet web board?

Generally speaking most of the people who say they will be sitting out next election or are obsessed with criticizing President Obama and Dems in general are well off financially. Well off enough that there would be a very slight if any change in their own standard of living had McCain/Palin won the election instead of President Obama. Might have done better? Want to know how I know this? Because they wouldn't be doing what they were doing if they thought they might injure their own economic position in life with their antics. They are set and they know it.

The people who generally would be hurt the worst by having Republicans instead of Democrats running things generally can't afford a monthly Internet bill or a computer. They are not represented here. Though the elites are well represented.

Take a look at the most anti-Dem posts you see here. Its always about me, me, me.

Cheers ...

Don

[Gman]

319. Thanks for the sanity check

I need it every now and then. :hi:

[LAGC]

320. "You either support organized labor's objectives or you don't."

And what happens when elected (D) congresscritters betray labor? When the President of the United States backs anti-labor candidates over more pro-labor candidates during the primaries?

Just where, pray tell, are our loyalties supposed to lie?