Meet the man taking on Toyota

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/robinson-259049-says-county.html

Published: July 23, 2010

By RACHANEE SRISAVASDI
THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER

Mark P. Robinson Jr. was a young lawyer when he came to a realization: He didn't feel right working for the defense.

It was in the mid-1970s. Robinson, 26, had left the Los Angeles District Attorney's Office and was working for his father's civil defense firm.


Attorney Mark P. Robinson Jr. shows off a warehoused 1972 Ford Pinto that is the only one of its kind in the country. Robinson's team modified the test car relocating the gas tank over the axle. Ford had claimed that the vehicle could not be built without the rear passengers being seated too high.


He took the deposition of a woman hurt in an accident. The crash wasn't her fault.

"I don't know, I just had this bad feeling," he says. "And here I was, representing the defense."

Then he met a Filipino immigrant named Juan Toquero, who had been injured in a car accident. Toquero was getting sued by the other driver, whose spotty driving record included a DUI and a host of tickets.

Robinson filed a counterlawsuit for Toquero – and felt invigorated after winning a $20,000 verdict.

"After that, I knew what I wanted to do,'' he says. "I like to represent the Juans of the world."

FULL story and 14 more photos of cars in other lawsuits at link.

[pipoman]

1. The difference between Pinto and Toyota

is that Pinto had a demonstrable, repeatable design flaw which resulted in fracturing gas tanks. The 'unintended acceleration' issue vaguely alleged in Toyotas is yet to be replicated by the thousands of scientists, mechanics, investigators, lawyers, and engineers who have put hundreds of thousands of hour into it...all because they are looking at the wrong cause...driver error will be the ultimate determination just as it was in the 1980's Audis, just like it is in virtually every single make and model which has reports of UA.

[Omaha Steve]

2. Innocent until proven guilty

Yes, but 'unintended acceleration' isn't the only cases he is handling.

[pipoman]

10. Don't get me wrong,

there are some good product liability cases. Unfortunately the bigger the case, the more plaintiffs, the more the lawyer makes and the less the people who were actually effected usually realize. Most of these lawyers troll for a 'settlement' without regard for the actual compensation going to those who most deserve compensation. This guy has made millions on the pain of others. I don't see anyplace in this article where he says he worked pro bono on anything.

[TexasObserver]

11. You do know you're repeating GOP talking points, don't you?

[pipoman]

14. So lame, loosers and those unable to articulately

discuss a topic resort to the lame assed "GOP talking points", silliness....just weak..

[TexasObserver]

3. Hogwash.

If you conclude that after reading everything reported, you're blind to the truth.

Your argument has long been debunked, in just about every thread on this topic.

Toyota has willfully hidden the truth about their problems, and they've killed consumers doing it.

[pipoman]

6. So what is the problem? Floor mats? Yea, right..

Does the same problem exist with all of these models?



Including the rest of the models at the link?

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nhtsa-data-dive-3-117-models-ranked-by-rate-of-ua-incidents/

No unintended acceleration has a long history of driver error attached to it. Start reading about Audi.

[TexasObserver]

7. I've argued this extensively here. I'm not going to tutor you.

The incidence of sudden acceleration in Toyotas predates the media attention to the problem and is many times that of its competitor, Nissan, among others.

A logical person would not conclude it is the driver where similar cars by other manufacturers have far fewer incidents. Beside, we know Toyota lied. They recalled vehicles after maintaining for months they had no problem.

The ugly truth is they've lied to the government regulators and to judges in cases nationwide. Why don't you stop carrying water for Toyota long enough to educate yourself on this topic? You'll stop embarrassing yourself with these silly defenses of a corporate criminal.

The sad fact is that you and others who defend Toyota don't know the first thing about products liability, and because of that, you don't understand that it is Toyota's responsibility to make the cars safe. It's not the drivers job to figure out what latent problems the car has and try to make allowances for it.

[pipoman]

12. So the short answer is? You don't know?

You don't know what the problem is and neither does the THOUSANDS of ENGINEERS who stand to make MILLIONS by finding a concrete cause. Why haven't they found the problem? Because the problem is in the actions of drivers,

Also, no comment on the list of cars above and at the link with reported 'unintended acceleration'? Do you still believe that Audi was to blame for the EXACT same accusations during the 1980's?

[TexasObserver]

13. The fact that Toyota can't fix it proves it is a design problem.

They have a design problem they cannot fix, so they tried to hide it.

[pipoman]

15. The fact that NOT ONE SINGLE

engineer from Toyota or any of the thousands of other places who have much to gain from isolating an actual problem are unable to do so even after hundreds of thousands of hours of mechanical/electronic testing should serve as proof that some non-mechanical/electronic cause is at the root. Where does that leave us? At the exact same place it did during the 2 year Audi investigation, Driver Error.

[TexasObserver]

16. This is why I don't waste much time arguing with Toyota defenders.

You will always saddle up to the corporation.

[pipoman]

18. So again your answer is, you don't have an answer..

proclaiming a victory by proclaiming a victory is really pretty elementary.

Further, you still have not commented on the extensive list of makes and models with reports of UA. I really don't care who the maker is, they are, until proven otherwise, errors caused by operators regardless the maker.

[Doeed]

17. pipoman, some people don't do facts.

They base all decisions on their feelings. You're wasting time trying to debate that one.

[Mopar151]

21. That's rich...

Considering both of you are way off on the facts.

[pipoman]

23. What's rich is a bunch of wishers using one liners

without answers. I have offered facts and direct questions and links and not one of the non mechanically inclined can even give a single answer. Mopar? Really? This again goes to wishful thinking.

[Mopar151]

30. I am anything but a wisher....

I've posted extensively on this subject here - you can look it up. I'm a former GM dealer tech, who's done hundreds of recalls. I've won numerous fast times and several championships as an engine builder, car preparer, and driver. I talk to more dealer techs, managers, and principals in a month than you've likely ever met.
Near as I can tell, you have yet to ask a coherent question here. You might well ask, why does Toyota not use open source code, and why have they stonewalled on OBD2 code retrevial?

[pipoman]

48. How do you explain the UA reports

on the makes and models at the link on post #6 of this thread?

[Mopar151]

52. I lack data to comment on the listed Ford products

But they have accessible data, at least in the case of crashes. And the data shown does not differentiate the degree of accelleration involved - are we talking WFO, or a very high idle? Do these cars have stuck throttle protection integral with the engine and brake control system?
If any of the Fords involved have been recalled or campaigned, are the recall instructions available for review?
Does the Ford Sync voice control respond to "Whoa, Mule!"?

[pipoman]

55. If you go to the link nearly every single make and model has reports

We will probably have to agree to disagree. You don't trust the mechanics to the historically most trouble free make of vehicles in the history of vehicles. I don't trust the ability of enough of the general public to account for driver error in an unbelievably low percentage of vehicles. Combined with the Audi debacle, and the complete lack of answers by thousands of engineers who are unrelated to Toyota in any way..I don't buy it. If it comes to pass that a concrete reason for unintended acceleration in Toyotas is in fact the greatest cover-up in the history of auto manufacturing, I'll admit I was wrong. On the other hand if it is determined that the actual issue is driver error will you admit you were wrong?

[Omaha Steve]

56. if it is determined that the actual issue is driver error will you admit you were wrong?

I will. With reservations. Even losing in court to later find the reason is fine with me. It is not that I believe Toyota is covering this up. It is because Toyota has covered up so much over the years that makes me believe they know something. Even their own high ranking management member said "we need to come clean on this".

[Mopar151]

59. You are correct, Toyota is not god.

Toyotas, on the whole, are not a lot better, or worse, than other makes. But they have taken extraordinary measures to avoid recalls, including seizure of customer vehicles (Tacoma trucks, for corrosion issues), and doing recall work (campaigns) on customer cars without notification of the customer.

[Omaha Steve]

22. We don't know that until the trial starts

A Perry Mason moment perhaps?

I'll be back on my lunch break.

[pipoman]

26. I do believe that the loosing party should have to pay the other parties legal expense..

[northernlights]

37. the word is "losing." LOSING. Not "LOOSING."

criminies I cannot stand that. :grr: :banghead: :grr:

[Omaha Steve]

38. Lets say it is a typo

In a hurry any post can get screwed up even with spell checker.

[northernlights]

42. it's NOT a TYPO. It's ignorance of the English language

and it appears to be a result of current teaching of English because I see it every. fucking. where.

That, and "me and my friend" and "I and my brother." AAARRRRGGGHHHHH! :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Oh, and then there are the illiterati who insist, on inserting commas, in very strange places.

IT'S DRIVING ME BATSHIT CRAZY.

Seriously, if people want their posts to be taken halfway seriously, stop writing like freakin' ignorant freepers.

[pipoman]

45. You are a fuckwad

how's that for bad English.

You really need psychiatric attention before you kill your family or some such shit.

[northernlights]

49. and you are a "looser" (read LOSER)

who is unable to account for the Toyota victims whose carmats were found in the trunks of their cars. And who doesn't recognize the difference between cars from a few decades ago and today's hybrids that are loaded with software with potential bugs. And who is -- la!la! -- joining the elite little club of "loosers" on my ignore list.

[pipoman]

51. Where do we even start on this post?

What is "carmats"? Who starts every sentence with "And", or any sentence for that matter? You are the one going around losing control of your bowels over an extra "o". You really should take a break.

[pipoman]

46. Thanks, my English skills are miles ahead of the vast, vast majority of posters

on this site. I, personally, find spelling police on internet forums pathetic, offensive and usually without the ability to actually discuss or argue topics.

[pipoman]

44. What a joke,

while pretending to be some sort of spelling police you use a combination of letters which isn't even a word...really how stupid is that? What a loser...better? :rofl:

[sendero]

36. What a ridiculous assertion..

... how are these engineers going to make "millions"?

Toyota has a problem and so far they have washed it over. But eventually it will come out, and it is NOT some bullshit like floor mats or accelerator pedals.

They have a drive by wire problem. And the fact that they haven't figured out what it is means JACK SHIT. Or let me correct that - they fact that they haven't ADMITTED they know what it is means JACK SHIT.

[pipoman]

47. Well, let's count the ways shall we?

1. They would be a primary professional expert witness in a multi-billion dollar law suit.

2. They would have a story which most news agencies would pay millions for. If you remember CBS was so desperate to prove, was it Chevy trucks or Pintos? that they actually fabricated evidence. Imagine what they would pay for actual verifiable proof.

3. Would be a great career booster.

4. What do you suppose the value of the claims to insurance companies comes to?

And probably a hundred other ways I can't imagine because I am not an engineer.

Please explain the list of makes and models with unintended acceleration reports at the link in post #6.

[sendero]

57. Please explain...

... why Toyota has many times the number of such incidents as other makes.

Please explain why Toyota has now added a "safety feature" that lets the brake override the accellerator, something that should have been there from day one.

Finding errors in very complex software systems, especially those that rely on hardware sensors that can fail, can be very difficult. It took microsoft two decades to build an operating system that would not crash regularly.

You clearly understand nothing about technology if you think some independent "scientist" could afford to spend millions of dollars and perhaps years of time to find a problem like this on spec. It's not their job and there is no reason for them to do it.

The idea that that state trooper has a stuck gas pedal or floor mat is ludicrous. I've had both of those happen to me and I reached down and fixed it. One's FIRST INSTINCT when the gas pedal is stuck is to physically unstick it. That didn't help these folks because the pedal was not down to begin with, a software or hardware failure made the computer think it was.

And lastly, the ridiculous story floated last week wherein it was proclaimed that the "black box" showed that the gas pedal was down is laughable. If anything it proves MY CASE, in that the SYSTEM THOUGHT the pedal was down, just like the system that controls the throttle opening THOUGHT the pedal was down. Unless these use separate sensors, something I highly doubt, this information proves nothing.

[pipoman]

58. Who says they have many times the number of incidents?

why Toyota has many times the number of such incidents as other makes.

And are we talking about reports which have surfaced since the initial reports came out. It appears to me from the link in post #6 of this thread that nearly every make and model has reports.

Please explain why Toyota has now added a "safety feature" that lets the brake override the accellerator, something that should have been there from day one.

As for the added 'safety feature', I suspect a couple of factors are in play. One may be that they are willing to do or try anything to take away any doubt. The other revolves around congressional hearings and the like. If, let's say, your neighbor began complaining about rats coming to his house from your house. Now you have never seen any rats at your house or even on your property, you have looked around and found no sign of rats anyplace on your property, yet your neighbor kept complaining until the neighbor sued you. You go to court and the judge orders, after hearing your neighbors story, and your denial that you have rats, that you must take action to stop the rats from going to your neighbor's house, what would you do? I suspect you would place bait or traps, maybe mow the grass a little shorter or remove any possible attractant on your property. Even though you still don't believe the rats were coming from your property, if you are taken back to court you know you had better have done something demonstrable to stop the rats...see where I am going here. I have seen this very scenario play out a number of years ago in a case I worked on briefly.

You clearly understand nothing about technology if you think some independent "scientist" could afford to spend millions of dollars and perhaps years of time to find a problem like this on spec. It's not their job and there is no reason for them to do it.

You don't think there is a small army of mechanics, scientists and engineers who are or have spent hundreds of thousands of hours trying to isolate a problem? Scientists, mechanics and engineers employed by government, insurance companies, lawyers, other car manufacturers, media, etc.? That there is the possibility for great personal and professional gain and notoriety for the person or team who isolates a verifiable problem? There are plenty of reasons for many non-Toyota people to be investigating this issue and in fact they are.

The idea that that state trooper has a stuck gas pedal or floor mat is ludicrous. I've had both of those happen to me and I reached down and fixed it. One's FIRST INSTINCT when the gas pedal is stuck is to physically unstick it. That didn't help these folks because the pedal was not down to begin with, a software or hardware failure made the computer think it was.

Troopers are humans. They are no less inclined to human error than anyone else. I don't believe that most of the reports of UA in the article posted in post #6 of this thread are caused by mats or because the pedals stick. I believe, like the scientists who investigated the Audi UA in the 1980's, that there is a somewhat rare phenomenon of human error related to panic which results in a person stepping on the gas believing it is the brake. I also believe that since this story broke there are many klingons (a term we used to call people who would try to inject themselves into class actions who really didn't have a legit claim).

And lastly, the ridiculous story floated last week wherein it was proclaimed that the "black box" showed that the gas pedal was down is laughable. If anything it proves MY CASE, in that the SYSTEM THOUGHT the pedal was down, just like the system that controls the throttle opening THOUGHT the pedal was down. Unless these use separate sensors, something I highly doubt, this information proves nothing.

As for this I have no idea. I wasn't in the car so I have no idea if the driver had the accelerator depressed or not. How do you know the pedal wasn't down?

If tomorrow it was decided that the position of pedals in Toyotas were, because of their positioning, more inclined to result in a person mistakenly hitting the gas instead of the brake, I could maybe buy that. But until someone says, this is the problem, and watch while I demonstrate, I am not a believer in massive cover ups, or impossibly illusive mechanical/electronic issues without answers. I am however a believer in the fallibility of humans.

[depakid]

50. For whatever reason, we haven't had these problems in Australia

Might be something engineers want to look at. Is there a difference in the parts for the two nations' vehicles?

[Mopar151]

53. Likely 2.

First - are the accellerator pedal assemblies Nippondenso, or the US made ones?
Second, do they use the same engine control software?

[depakid]

54. These are questions that investigators should be honing in on (if they haven't already)

and, if unresolved, will pose major problems for the plaintiffs' case(s).

[Doeed]

5. I agree

Even if the accelerator did hang, kick in neutral, and turn it off. Just don't turn the key so far as to lock the steering wheel. Can't handle an emergency situation, stay off the road. It makes it safer for those of us who can drive.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mopar151]

20. How about the "start button" cars?

[pipoman]

24. I've not driven one...do they have transmissions with neutral?

[Omaha Steve]

27. That is part of the problem

The transmission is electronically semi-controlled(to help save gas). If there is a problem with the system, it can lock you in gear. Also turning the key to off while moving doesn't work. There is a 3 second shut down process. IF you don't read the owners handbook, you can't do it. Like the professional driving instructor last fall that started all the national attention getting.

[Fumesucker]

29. Car and Driver says that the brakes are stronger than the engine..

And backed it up with an extreme test, a supercharged Mustang..

http://www.caranddriver.sg/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

For our tests, we rounded up a disparate bunch: a V-6 Camry (a recalled vehicle), an Infiniti G37 convertible, and a hugely powerful 540-hp Roush Stage 3 Mustang.

<snip>

We included the powerful Roush Mustang to test—in the extreme—the theory that “brakes are stronger than the engine.” From 70 mph, the Roush’s brakes were still resolutely king even though a pinned throttle added 80 feet to its stopping distance. However, from 100 mph, it wasn’t clear from behind the wheel that the Mustang was going to stop. But after 903 feet—almost three times longer than normal—the 540-hp supercharged Roush finally did succumb, chugging to a stop in a puff of brake smoke.

[Omaha Steve]

31. WP: Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints (brake problems)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/28/AR2010012803971.html

By Peter Whoriskey
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 29, 2010

Toyota Motor began facing complaints of runaway cars years ago, but the company did not install "brake override" systems in those vehicles, even as several other automakers deployed the technology to address such malfunctions.

The brake override systems allow a driver to stop a car with the footbrake even if the accelerator is depressed and the vehicle is running at full throttle. The systems are an outgrowth of new electronics in cars, specifically in engine control.

"If the brake and the accelerator are in an argument, the brake wins," a spokesman at Chrysler said in describing the systems, which it began installing in 2003.

Volkswagen, Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz also install such systems in at least some of their cars, the companies and industry experts said, some as far back as 10 years ago. General Motors installs brake override in all of its cars in which it is possible for the engine at full throttle to overwhelm the brakes.
ad_icon

"Most other automakers have adopted this technology," said Sean Kane, a former researcher at the Center for Auto Safety who now works at Safety Research and Strategies. Not adding the systems "is one of the mistakes that created this perfect storm for Toyota."

Toyota did not respond Thursday to questions about its decisions involving brake override.

But at the Detroit Auto Show in December, Toyota North America President Yoshi Inaba said the company would begin equipping its vehicles with brake override. His comments followed a November statement from the company that the override system would be made standard on Toyota and Lexus vehicles starting with some models in January 2010.

The precaution comes too late, however, to forestall a tsunami of negative publicity that has engulfed the company since it halted production and suspended sales of eight popular models after reports of unintended acceleration. For a company that famously aimed to become the largest automaker in the world by touting a reputation for reliability and safety, it has been a striking turnaround.

FULL 2 page story at link.

And: US to probe Toyota brake failure

http://english.aljazeera.net/business/2010/02/20102420173126205.html

(Note this from the story) Shocking revelation

Toyota changed the software controlling braking in the Prius on models manufactured in Japan from last month, a step it had not announced before Thursday.


US safety regulators have opened a formal probe into problems with the brakes of Toyota’s Prius, the world's top-selling hybrid and a vehicle that has powered the car maker's reputation for fuel-efficiency.

The new probe on Thursday by the US National Highway Traffic Safety (NHTSA) threatens to compound a consumer safety crisis that has hit Toyota's sales, financial results and reputation for quality and prompted the recall of over 8 million vehicles around the world for problems with uncontrolled acceleration.

"We have heard about NHTSA's intention to begin investigation. Toyota will fully co-operate," Cindy Knight, a Toyota spokeswoman, said.

NHTSA said it has received 124 complaints about momentary braking problems after motorists rolled over bumps or potholes with the third-generation Prius.

The investigation covers the 2010 model year Prius.

'More recalls'

Meanwhile, the Nikkei newspaper reported that Toyota would recall an estimated 270,000 units of Prius in the United States and Japan to fix the brake problem.

Mike Michels, a Toyota spokesman, said he could not comment on that report. He said the car maker had no plans to suspend sales of the Prius as it did with eight other models recalled for a faulty accelerator pedal.

"There is no plan for suspension," Michels said.

"No confirmation of a recall for US at this time," he said in an email to Reuters in response to a question about the Nikkei report.

NHTSA also refused to comment on the report and said that any recall would be announced by Toyota.

Shocking revelation

Toyota changed the software controlling braking in the Prius on models manufactured in Japan from last month, a step it had not announced before Thursday.

Dennis Virag, president of Automotive Consulting in Ann Arbor, Michigan, said Toyota's revelation that it had been aware of the Prius problems for months and had worked out a quiet fix on the assembly line without notifying consumers was "shocking."

"It could be a kiss of death," he said.

Its shares dropped another 2 per cent in New York on Thursday. The stock has lost 20 per cent since it announced a sweeping recall for accelerator problems in late January.

Toyota expects costs and lost sales from its massive safety recall to total $2bn by the end of March.

The car maker's US sales tumbled 16 per cent in January and are expected to fall further in February.

FULL story at link.

[Fumesucker]

33. Car and Driver *deliberately* floored the throttle in order to simulate unintended acceleration..

And they did it in one of the Camrys that have been recalled due to unintended acceleration concerns.

From my earlier link..

With the Camry’s throttle pinned while going 70 mph, the brakes easily overcame all 268 horsepower straining against them and stopped the car in 190 feet—that’s a foot shorter than the performance of a Ford Taurus without any gas-pedal problems and just 16 feet longer than with the Camry’s throttle closed. From 100 mph, the stopping-distance differential was 88 feet—noticeable to be sure, but the car still slowed enthusiastically enough to impart a feeling of confidence. We also tried one go-for-broke run at 120 mph, and, even then, the car quickly decelerated to about 10 mph before the brakes got excessively hot and the car refused to decelerate any further. So even in the most extreme case, it should be possible to get a car’s speed down to a point where a resulting accident should be a low-speed and relatively minor event.

[Omaha Steve]

35. So why did Toyota do a recall for a brake problem?

Call the Toyota defense team asap. You can save them with this one piece of knowledge.


http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/toyota-announces-safety-recall-100493.aspx

Toyota Announces Safety Recall on Select Vehicles
Torrance, Calif., August 26, 2009 -- Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., will launch a voluntary Safety Recall with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) involving approximately 95,700 Toyota and Scion vehicles sold in the United States.

On certain 2009 and 2010 model year Toyota Corolla, Corolla Matrix, and 2008 and 2009 Scion xD vehicles all equipped with 1.8 liter engines, Toyota has determined that if the vehicle is operated in extremely low ambient temperatures, there is a possibility that condensed moisture from the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) port may seep into the brake system vacuum port and freeze. Should this condition continue, ice may slowly accumulate at the brake system vacuum port and in the extreme case, ultimately plug the vacuum port. As a result of the accumulation of ice, power assist to the brakes would gradually decrease and lead to lengthened vehicle stopping distances.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/02/04/japan.prius.complaints/index.html

Tokyo, Japan (CNN) -- Without issuing a recall of its iconic Prius hybrid vehicles, Toyota said Thursday a software glitch is to blame for braking problems in the 2010 model.

"We would want to be given a little time," Hiro Yuki Yokoyama, Toyota's managing officer, said when reporters asked whether a recall was in the works.

The company changed its braking system software in January as part of what it called "constant quality improvements," but did not say what it would do about vehicles manufactured before then.

Toyota officials described the problem as a "disconnect" in the vehicle's complex anti-lock brake system (ABS) that causes less than a one-second lag. With the delay, a vehicle going 60 mph will have traveled nearly another 90 feet before the brakes begin to take hold.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas/runaway-toyotas-lawyer-stuck-throttle-found-car-imprisoned/story?id=10428540

Lawyer: Stuck Throttle Found in Car of Imprisoned Toyota Driver

Hilliard says his experts also found evidence from the brake light filaments that a "braking event" was occurring at the time of the collision. "It means that Mr. Lee had his foot on the brake as he testified," said Hilliard.

Hilliard says an inspection by insurance company engineers in 2006 reported similar evidence that "the vehicle was engaged in a braking maneuver at the time of the crash."

The prosecution maintained Lee had mistakenly pressed the accelerator pedal instead of the brake.
Snip: The 1996 Camry was the subject of a recall because of "unintended acceleration" caused by a flaw in the cruise control ten years prior to the accident. The fact of the recall was not presented at the trial.

[Fumesucker]

39. Auto manufacturers do recalls on a regular basis, it's nothing unusual..

Keep in mind that there are several Mercury, Volvo and Lincoln models whose unintended acceleration incidents are as high or higher in percentage than the Toyota models we're talking about here.

The great disparity in UA incidents by model across a number of car manufacturers shows that something is going on here but I don't think it's clear yet just what it might be and it's absolutely not limited to just Toyota.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/nhtsa-data-dive-3-117-models-ranked-by-rate-of-ua-incidents/

For instance Lincoln Town car is the #2 in UA complaints at 25.2 per 100,000 after the Lexus ES350 at 32.03 while the Chevy Silverado 1500 is only 0.25 per 100,000.

[Omaha Steve]

41. 10 million Toyota's, most for major safety items this year, is " nothing unusual" ?

I think I'll take an unusual car.

Well some go back 10 years and just got recalled last month. Whats up with that? Leaking gas tanks, brakes, steering, transmissions, return springs in Lexus engines, ....

[Fumesucker]

43. Toyota makes a lot of cars..

A family member had a Jeep Liberty that was recalled because the front wheels were falling off due to a faulty ball joint, I only know about it because they asked me to explain the recall letter to them (totally non mechanical person).

It's a bit odd that I never heard about that on the news or on DU but every time a Toyota has the slightest problem it is all over the M$M and DU.

I haven't bothered to weigh in on this subject in quite a while because I really don't give much of a damn about it and the grief I get from Toyota haters is just not worth dealing with.

It is a bit interesting that I haven't heard about Steve Wozniak and his claim that he can reproduce the UA fault in his Prius at will in months and months, Woz is a very smart guy and I suspect he knows something.

[Mopar151]

34. I've used the "racer version" since the early '80's

Yes, I'm appalled that Toyota did'nt do the same thing. The adjustable pressure switch necessary is currently available from Mico Corp. as an interlock switch for truck applications.

[Mopar151]

32. That works well, IF

You keep your cool, and lock the car down hard right off. Do anything less, and you'll overheat the brakes - especially on a car not designed for high performance. Lotsa luck after that......

[Fumesucker]

40. Eh, they started at 120 mph..

And it still brought the 500+ hp Mustang down to 10 mph..

Generally cars are fairly balanced designs from the factory, if the engine is powerful so are the brakes and vice versa.

And I've made the point you did myself in the past here on DU so I do understand it.

[Mopar151]

19. Pinto gas tanks did not "fracture" - sheetmetal does not fracture.

The sedans had an issue (wagons did not) of disengageing the filler neck. Several other vehicles in that era had similar designs (i.e. Chevettes), and the Chevy/GM pickups of that era were considerably worse. These pickups, and GM station wagons of the same era, were also notorious for corrosion in gas tand seams which caused leaks in the tanks.
'80's Audis had a problem (idle air control failure) which made them a good deal harder to control, which tended to cause driver error.
If you look at the statistics, there are very specific models of Toyota and Lexus which have this problem - others (like Prius and RAV4) have very few instances reported.

[pipoman]

25. True on the Pintos/gas filler..

as for the other models, how do we explain that, for instance, the number 2 most reported make/model for UA is Lincoln Town Car, and in fact, virtually every maker has cars with reports of UA. I don't doubt that some cars have higher incidence because of the juxtaposition of the pedals or even the demographic of the average buyer of a particular model. Either way the issue still comes to driver error.

[Doeed]

4. Another ambulance chaser

Did I mention that I hate lawyers?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

28. Hate all you want. Can you imagine a highway full of Pintos trailed by late model Camrys?

Without lawyers, that nightmare could be real.

FWIW, I drive a '99 Camry that I still treasure and I'll drive it until it falls to pieces.

[Heidi]

60. How does it feel to have your irrational bias against lawyers

shaping your worldview? It's gotta be uncomfortable in that narrow space.