Did the Bushes and the bin Ladens ever vacation together way back when?

[LaydeeBug]

It will make my ever loving day if they did. I can only find that Bush and Salem were in business together. Anyone with any insight will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[LaydeeBug]

1. and, no, this is NOT about 9-11, it's about whether we should have attacked Iraq. nt

[greyl]

5. What does bin laden have to do with Iraq? nt

[LaydeeBug]

13. he is trying to say that three of our intelligence agencies linked them

to which I responded, "15 out of 19, ya stooge".

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JNelson6563]

3. I think they are in a time share together.

I think I read that somewhere, maybe the Enquirer? Travel Today? I forget... ;-)

[Skink]

4. The strange death of Salem Bin Laden.

The Strange Death Of bin
Laden's Brother In Texas
By Bud Kennedy
[e-mail]
Ft Worth Star-Telegram
9-27-1

SCHERTZ - One chapter in the enigmatic story of Osama bin Laden might lead to a Texas pasture, where his oldest brother died 13 years ago in an accident that is still something of a mystery.

What we do know is that Salem bin Laden, 42, and the oldest of Saudi Arabia's bin Laden brothers, was on one of his frequent visits to Texas when he and friends went out for a Sunday afternoon of fun - flying low-power ultralight aircraft at an air park north of San Antonio.

What we don't know is why Salem bin Laden took off in the tiny aircraft and turned toward a nearby row of high-power electrical towers. He climbed, but not high enough to clear the upper power line. The Sprint ultralight got tangled and crashed into the ground 115 feet below.

"Of everybody who was there, nobody could figure out why he tried to fly over the power lines," said Gerry Auerbach, 77, of New Braunfels, a retired pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines and for the bin Laden brothers, multimillionaire builders who long ago disowned Osama.

"It was kind of a weird deal," said Schertz police Lt. Stephen Starr, at the time the city's acting police chief. "He just drifted up into the wires."

It has been turned into an even weirder deal by conspiracy theorists - with the unlikely help of the Public Broadcasting Service.

In the 2000 PBS Frontline special report, Hunting bin Laden, PBS reported that Salem bin Laden died in a 1988 Texas plane crash - not in a hobby-kit-type, one-man ultralight, but in a full-size British Aerospace BAC 1-11. The death "revived some speculation that he might have been 'eliminated,' " PBS reported, adding that an accident report was "never divulged."

That's news to Starr. He and officer Lori Flowers, now an officer in nearby Windcrest, wrote a report that remains public record.

On May 29, 1988, they were called to the Kitty Hawk Field of Dreams Ultra-Lite Flying Field on the edge of Schertz, a San Antonio suburb. Bin Laden had already been taken by ambulance to an Army hospital in San Antonio, according to the police report. Officers found the crumpled remains of a crashed ultralight.

No federal investigators came to the scene, Starr said. Federal investigators do not review ultralight or glider crashes.

Salem bin Laden was not wearing a helmet and died of head injuries from the fall, the Bexar County medical examiner concluded. The wind was blowing about 30 mph, usually too strong to fly an ultralight.

The Schertz officers interviewed several witnesses. Their report concludes simply: "Freak accident."

Now armed with the PBS misreport, some conspiracy writers think Osama bin Laden blames the United States for the death of his oldest brother, the family's leader throughout most of the 1970s and '80s after their father's death in 1967.

"I don't think so," Auerbach said. "I flew Salem everywhere, and I never met Osama. I think I saw him once."

That was in the 1970s. Osama bin Laden would have been a teen-ager. "He walked through the room," Auerbach said.

"Salem said: 'Oh, that's my brother. He's probably going to pray.' "

Several of the bin Laden brothers - not Osama - owned a fleet of aircraft and visited Texas often in the 1980s, Auerbach said. He chartered a Texas company named Binladen Aviation to manage part of the family fleet.

On that particular 1988 Sunday - over a drizzly and windy Memorial Day weekend - Salem bin Laden was visiting as a guest at the wedding of Auerbach's son, he said. Bin Laden had also planned to ask about having an older BAC 1-11 refurbished in San Antonio, Auerbach said. But he was simply out for fun with friends at the ultralight park that afternoon.

"He was outgoing, a little bit flamboyant - a nice guy," Auerbach said.

He was expecting bin Laden to come by the house later that day.

Now, Auerbach said he's "like everybody else in America - I'm shocked."

"The fact that one of his brothers might be involved doesn't make any difference," Auerbach said. "What matters is - there's a nut case out there somewhere on the loose."

Things are weird enough.

There's no reason to make a weirder story out of a tragic accident in Texas.

http://web.star-telegram.com/content/fortworth/2001/09/27/state/fw010402-0927-X B001-kennedy.htm

[leveymg]

9. This is a myth - I checked the NTSB records in late 2001. Salem Bin Laden was not killed that day -

a guy from San Diego was. His name was not bin Laden. There was a witness with the last name Salem cited in the accident report. That record, by the way, was out of numerical and chronological order.

There is also no record in that database of a crash in the Continental US of any bin Laden. He may have gone done in the Gulf of Mexico outside U.S. territory. That's in a different, offshore data base, but they wanted to charge for a search.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. So PBS' Frontline reported a myth? They did not give a date & added a correction about what kind of

plane he was flying.

Snip.....
Like his father in 1968, Salem died in a 1988 air crash...in Texas. He was flying a BAC 1-11 which had been bought in July 1977 by Prince Mohammed Ben Fahd. The plane's flight plans had long been at the center of a number of investigations. According to one of the plane's American pilots, it had been used in October 1980 during secret Paris meetings between US and Iranian emissaries. Nothing was ever proven, but Salem bin Laden's accidental death revived some speculation that he might have been "eliminated" as an embarrassing witness. In fact, an inquiry was held to determine the exact circumstances of the accident. The conclusions were never divulged.


FRONTLINE Editors' Note:

The above paragraph is inaccurate. Salem bin Laden was piloting a light aircraft, not a BAC 1-11, when he crashed. As for "secret Paris meetings between US and Iranian emissaries" in October 1980, such meetings have never been confirmed.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/family.html

[leveymg]

17. The original FRONTLINE report may have been closer to what happened. I exchanged

correspondence with the FRONTLINE Producer, but we never had a meeting of the minds on this. I also obtained a copy of the local newspaper account of the ultralight into the high tension wire accident, and it does not name bin Laden as the victim.

I put this to bed a long time ago. I don't think we'll ever find out how Salem bin Laden actually died, but it was NOT in the NTSB data base of air accidents that occurred in the United States during the period 1985-1990. Not when I went down to the NTSB archives and checked them in late September 2001.

I checked the entire NTSB database -- and cross-checked it by names and aircraft types -- and there is an incident report that has some uncanny similarities to the mythical account about the alleged ultralight accident involving Salem bin Laden which has been reported, but the pilot was not Salem bin Laden (or any name even remotely similar). There was a witness, who turned out to be a local manufacturer of ultralight aircraft, with the family name, Salem.

So, I guess I would say the FRONTLINE Editor's Note is inaccurate.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

20. By all accounts on the Internet, Salem Bin Laden died in an airplane crash

in Texas, 1988. I even discovered an article from the UK Telegraph discussing Salem's wife (a British citizen), who was pregnant at the time of the time of his death. She later went on to marry another Bin Laden brother.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1341565/Outcast-disowned-by-his-outraged-family.html

Snip

Within less than 20 years, Salem had been killed in an air crash, and a decade later, Osama had been named the prime suspect in the murder of thousands of people in New York and Washington.

Yesterday, Ambrose Carey, the brother of the British woman who married Salem, described the family as "decent and respectable" people who had not been in contact with Osama since the early 1990s.

"He brought enormous shame on the family and for that he has been ostracised," he said. "My sister leads a quiet, unflashy existence in a beautiful house in Cairo and, along with the rest of the family, I know she is appalled at what has happened."

Caroline Carey was first married to Salem bin Laden, who was educated at Millfield School, in Somerset, and was the eldest of the 54 brothers and sisters. He was killed in an air crash in Texas in 1988 when she was pregnant with their first child.

She raised their daughter in Saudi Arabia and, 10 years after her first husband's death, she married Khaled bin Laden, one of the younger brothers, with whom she has another daughter.

Continued at above link

Now let's consider something here. Who was the Vice President at the time that this alleged crash happened, and didn't this VP have friends in all parts of the Government, especially connections in Texas? Many accounts of Salem Bin Laden's death mentions it as being suspicious. How easily could the documents surrounding an airplane crash be "lost" or misplaced, and filled out with misinformation? How easily would it be for someone with those same connections to convince a newspaper to change a victim's name? Just saying.....

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. An Excerpt From The Book "The Bin Laden's: An Arabian family in the American century.

There are excerpts from this book at Google and a few of the pages give a very detailed description of the aftermath of the crash, including how they brought Salem to a military hospital.

http://books.google.com/books?id=1_cjb96LrJIC&pg=PA307&lpg=PA307&dq=CARoline+carey+ambrose&source=bl&ots=zxahr3Genp&sig=Hv6v-8C_mwAbF0FYCEMZbCNFNYk&hl=en&ei=NTBLTO6sBcG78gbN96ky&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CDUQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=CARoline%20carey%20ambrose&f=false

If you scroll down, starting with page 321 (the chapter is Kitty Hawk Field Of Dreams), it will provide you with information. This unfortunately, for teasers sake omits the take-off and most of the crash.

Why would the author make all of this up and in such detail? Maybe you should inquire at the hospital where Salem allegedly died?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

23. From an article about Shertz, Texas from SanAntonioRealEstate.com

http://www.sanantoniotxrealestateforsale.com/Texas_Cities/Schertz_Real_Estate.html

Our first fire protection was from the Randolph Field Fire Department. As time went on some Schertz business people and some of its citizens started to organize a fire department. The first business meeting of the Schertz Fire Department was February 8, 1956. Our first Fire Chief was Archie Woodward and the fire truck was stored in the old Schertz garage. Soon a fire station and city hall combination was built. The Schertz library is now in this building. Schertz was incorporated as a City by the State if Texas in 1958. The most famous person from Schertz is alt-country-rocker Steve Earle, who grew up in the town. In 1988, the half-brother of Osama bin Laden and then patriarch of the bin Laden family, Salem bin Laden, perished in a crash of a light plane in Schertz, described as a "freak accident" by Schertz officials.

My guess is that the info you had been searching for was "misplaced"

[Old and In the Way]

6. What's interesting here (between the Bush and bin Ladens)

is Bath's relationship with the Bush and bin Ladens (http://knowyourbfee.blogspot.com/2005/08/know-your-bfee-james-r-bath-bush-bin.html)

Now what I find interesting is he made $50K connecting the Bush and bin Laden Families. If that's a 5% deal, thats $1MM dollar deal between the Bush/bin Laden family. Hmmmm.

[Rhiannon12866]

7. LOL. I was just thinking of you...

I remember that you and I once challenged other DUers to find a pic of any Bush with any bin Laden... The closest we got was a pic of Poppy Bush with the Saudi royal family. Think this was in 2003. :hi:

[SpiralHawk]

8. "Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)

[LaydeeBug]

10. shameless kick because there is still no answer. nt

[monmouth]

11. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cheneys did. He goes to Dubai a lot...n/t

[LaydeeBug]

12. I wouldn't be surprised either, but this was the Bushes when W was younger

yanno, younger than 42 when he finally grew up. I actually wanna say it was 1972, but I am not exactly sure. Wish I could find something.

[Octafish]

15. Larry Klayman said Bushes were bin Laden houseguests in Saudi Arabia, just after 9-11...

Conservative (but, evidently honest) Larry Klayman of Judicial Watch said George and Barbara were frequent house guests of the bin Ladens in Saudi Arabia after they left the White House and in the years before 9-11. They were longtime friends -- cough, petrodollars -- who also were in business together in the then-newly formed private investment bank, the Carlyle Group.

Proud to write that DU was on to their gangster dealings way back when before Corporate McPravda made it a hanging offense to discuss publicly -- cough, Cynthia McKinney...

Know your BFEE: Bush and bin Laden Clans Together in Bed

We know of their relationships through a paper trail generated by Congressional investigators in the BCCI matters, as well as private lawsuits:

Know your BFEE: James R Bath – Bush – bin Laden Link

[blm]

18. and Kerry named Salem Bin Laden in his BCCI investigation for which he was supposed to be under a

form of 'house arrest' at the time. You just know Poppy Bush made sure Bin Ladens would NOT have to face further scrutiny....and apparently, Bill Clinton agreed when he took over and deepsixed all the many outstanding matters in BCCI for Poppy Bush and Jackson Stephens. And still some Dems 'wonder' why Poppy Bush and Bill Clinton are so close. Sheesh.

[Octafish]

19. Bechtel -- former Sec State George Shultz -- tied to bin Laden Family

http://money.cnn.com/2003/05/05/news/companies/war_bechtel/index.htm

It is truly amazing what we forget -- or never knew. Thanks for the reminder on BCCI, blm.

[Lars39]

16. I have a theory that Bush Sr and the missus sent Junior

to live with the Saudis for a summer or two, same as when they sent him to live in Scotland for a summer. Hard to prove,though.

[AngryAmish]

22. 1998 - St. Tropez

look it up

[LaydeeBug]

24. I did and it doesn't say much...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=1998+st+tropez+vacation+bush+family+bin+laden+&cts=1280000316492&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[AngryAmish]

25. look harder

google has been coopeted. Deep search.

[LaydeeBug]

26. I don't really know too much about a deep search for google...

but if you have some background, I'd love for you to share. Do you have a link?

I might be able to use lex/nex this week, we'll see... but for real though?

Deep search?

[undeterred]

27. They used to go to the same Oilmen parties together.

[LaydeeBug]

28. I thought the families took vacay together in like 1972, but it's all been scrubbed. nt

[undeterred]

30. Isn't that the year that * can't remember at all?

[PufPuf23]

29. I am only on page 155 of Baker's Family of Secrets

Recommended read.