The joke is truly over, but I seem to have missed the punchline.

[snake in the grass]

For those of you who have read some of my posts, you know I never expected too much from President Obama in the first place and am (or better yet, was), therefore, not disappointed by him.

Until now.

I accepted to a certain degree the multidimensional chess argument, because I know he’s not a dolt, like the last one we had. When he ducked and covered on LGBT issues, I figured he was either bending to appease the rightwing or suffering under a latent homophobia through religious convictions. The latter I never really believed because it is so often used as a crutch. If his convictions were so strong, he’d have second, third or tenth thoughts on shooting rockets into crowds of innocents or continuing to maintain those under the radar ‘detention’ centers.

But, not even that disappointed me. After all, he made it quite clear in the run-up to the election in 2008 that he fully intended to continue the U.S. blunder in Afghanistan, a country also known as the “Graveyard of Empires.” No, the concept of perpetual war as a foreign policy approach didn’t surprise me in the least; even when the cost could be felt here as fellow citizens continue to lose all they have.

I wasn’t disappointed in the so-called health care reform (well, not much at least), that turned out to be a giveaway to a parasitic industry, not to mention that the end result wasn’t anything like the talk during the campaign. I know, I know talk is cheap and it was at its cheapest when President Obama stood on a stage with that worm, Max Baucus, and expressed how he’d “like to see” a public option in the bill. Yeah, you get ‘em tiger! His affinity to ‘Corporate America’ is ostensible to anyone who cares to look, but the fact that we are still behind the rest of the industrialized and even some of the developing world, didn’t let me down.

I was a tiny bit taken aback by his stance on women’s issues, especially since I consider him a bit more open to science than his predecessor. And what’s with the ‘Abstinence Only’ funding and teaching? I thought Bristol Palin had that one covered. Now the caving to a bronze-age, patriarchal philosophy, i.e. a steaming pile of bovine excrement, bourne of the misogynist likes of Stupak and Pitts is a slap in the face of all women. But even that one didn’t surprise me too much, considering the company President Obama keeps. I’m especially tickled at the memory of him on stage with ‘Pastor’ Rick Warren. That told me all I needed to know about his level of sensitivity toward "special interest" groups.

A creeping feeling of true uneasiness first began around three weeks after the Deep Horizon rig went to Hell. It was not enjoyable to feel we were being left in the dark as to the extent of the damage, but I excused that to logistics. If it’s anything that Homo sapiens are in the face of such an event, it is disorganized and frantic. However, as news began to come out about things like workers not being allowed to wear protective gear, how BP was continuing to spray Corexit (even though the EPA had ordered them to stop), as the dead animals were being policed up at night and burned to suppress the evidence, or the toleration of privately hired thugs to chase off any nosy citizens from public land (even though BP had publicly announced that no one would be prevented from speaking to the workers), and then the full capitulation to a malignant industry with the passing of the 65-foot ban to all oil spill relevant areas, under penalty…only then did I start to see how shockingly cowardly our POTUS is. The call to prayer was nothing more than a resignation in the face of ideological bankruptcy.

But now I’ve given up all pretenses of good will and the benefit of the doubt - multidimensional chess be damned. I remember Candidate Obama asserting that no one was above the law and herein was my own glimmer of something akin to hope. As a constitutional scholar, surely President Obama would see how the Cheney Administration had trampled upon the document, right? Certainly he would grab the historic opportunity by the horns and right this egregious wrong. Even when he was so ambivalent about issues like warrantless wiretapping or reinstating Habeas corpus as the cornerstone of a civilized society, I still made up some excuse or another - that he was just playing his cards close, was keeping his powder dry for what would be the single most important issue to define his legacy to humanity – the legal pursuit of the war criminals amongst us. This could have been a real catalyst to healing within our country and around the world, but instead, for whatever reason (and I don’t care which anymore) the justice department has decided to drop the investigations against some of the most vile instruments in sending our soldiers off to a foreign land to fight for the drill rights of yet another parasitic industry; a folly that has led to a million deaths and millions of displaced. The entire upper echelon of the Cheney Administration needs to be put under a spotlight and a microscope and there should be real consequences this time around for the blood on their hands; not like with Watergate or Iran-Contra. Funny thing with that whole Watergate deal, being as some of the same fiends from then have their dirty little claws in the whole tragedy know as the Bush Years. Clinton was impeached for a blowjob. What's the going rate for mass murder? Someone as intelligent as President Obama must see what’s at stake and if he doesn’t have the gonads to do what is right, he could have the criminals sent to Den Haag, where they would at least get much better treatment than what they afforded others during their time in office.

But, no. We will look forward…

…to the next time these psychopaths take control.

And it will happen again.

I heard Alberto Gonzales is whining now about being a victim so I predict he’ll sue Keith Olbermann for damages due to libel…and he’ll probably fucking win too! President Obama has just made himself, at the least, complicit in the biggest crime perpetrated against the citizens of the U.S. and the world, and he has enabled the next wave of rape and pillage.

For this he deserves only disdain.

If only:


Edit to add to journal.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

1. K&R

[Hydra]

2. The joke seems to have been on us

It was a slick job. Truly. I wanted to believe it too...but what happens when, as you say, someone like Cheney returns to the WH?

Disturbing, to say the least.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. K&R, sadly...

For I believe you are correct.

[HughMoran]

50. Have you ever seen a lassie?

[truedelphi]

214. problem is, the version of "Lassie" that Obama sees

Means that when someone says "Get Help, Timmy! Get Help!" The President thinks they mean that Tim Geithner can help us.

We are so screwn.

[zabet]

4. k & r (nt)

[Ignis]

5. I wish you strength to survive the dogpile.

:patriot:

[RKP5637]

6. I have disappointment and apprehension about the future. Missed opportunities IMO. n/t

[metapunditedgy]

7. It's "business as usual" unless guilty politicians and CEOs are going to jail.

And don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[bvar22]

8. A very somber K&R

:(

[Dinger]

175. Same Here (nt)

:-(

[Horse with no Name]

9. Bout says it all. k&r

[pocoloco]

10. We have known exactly what to expect since 2007.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2382566

[snake in the grass]

11. Yes, but some dared to hope.

I, too, was stupid in that regard.

[tango-tee]

39. Many, many of us were.

Not necessarily stupid, but full of hope for change. K&R.

[Frank Cannon]

146. Lucy. Charlie Brown. Football.

You know how this works.

[Foo Fighter]

239. Yep. That about sums it up.

And it's been that way my entire lifetime.

Nothing new there.

[snake in the grass]

212. I meant it was stupid to entertain the notion...

...that President Obama would be the one to bring about that change. He actually made it quite clear in the primaries who he is. I just didn't see the cowardice back then when he was playing serious hardball with the Clintons. "Yes, We Can" has become "No, I Won't". Such a shame to have squandered all that goodwill capital...and a crime.

[RobinA]

243. Second the Cowardice

I always thought Obama was a repub circa 1976, but figured I could live with that given the alternative. Now I WISH he were a repub circa 1976.

Although, I gotta say, I never for one moment thought he was going to have anything to say about war criminals. I would have been happy if he had just put things to right when it comes to all that.

[peace frog]

48. I, too, dared to hope for real change

Is it stupid to want to believe that progressive change is not only possible but attainable?

[sulphurdunn]

137. Yes,

unless you're willing to break some eggs to get it.

[peace frog]

143. Thanks for the input

I'll remember it always. :-)

[sulphurdunn]

171. Since you liked that, you should love this:

"Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." Frederick Douglass. :hippie:

[peace frog]

186. Well, Frederick Douglas should know

but I think I'll go with "power concedes nothing" as it better reflects what we're dealing with in this millenium.

[HughMoran]

52. Oh, fer fucks sake

You careful lay out all of what you expected and what happened over 18 months, but you're suddenly on your last straw about something that was set aside on day one and you knew perfectly well would never occur. That's the definition of disingenuous in my book.

[snake in the grass]

190. Total bullshit.

I was serious when I said I didn't expect so much. I didn't. Obama was nothing more than a politician for me. However, I did, since day one, hope to see him honour the law at some point in regards to the previous administration. These people have blood on their hands and now they are going to walk. But that's only half of it; the other half of the story is that they will regroup and come for what is left - like after Nixon and Reagan. Perhaps you can live with that. Perhaps you find it ok to let war criminals tour the TV circuit, but I don't.

Sooner or later you'll figure out.

[HughMoran]

244. Could you possibly be any more condescending in your arrogance?

Unreal - can you actually post a reply that's not laced with insults?

:eyes:

[Name removed]

245. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

261. Speaking of insult laced personal attacks

[Kalun D]

280. ""can you actually post a reply that's not laced with insults?""

Mr.Pot, there's a Mr.Kettle on the phone, should I tell him you'll call him black?

[bvar22]

131. You were given reason to "HOPE".

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah

[Mojorabbit]

169. That is the person I voted for. Sigh. nt

[Hissyspit]

12. Wow, good memory. Some interesting responses in that thread.

Wonder what some would say about their responses today?

[LWolf]

62. I stand by mine. nt

[pocoloco]

91. And it certainly needs repeating!!!

[JohnnyLib2]

15. Yup.

Sigh....

[Cherchez la Femme]

22. Fascinating

thanks for our very own Wayback Machine :)

I've often wondered what the other Democratic candidates would have done, if elected?

It is my opinion Kucinich would have stood by the rule of law and given fair hearings. As for DLC Hillary, other than she being a hawk, I'm not sure. I don't think she's as afraid of her own shadow as this administration seems to be, but then she would be wide open to the charges, which Repukes would certainly use, of 'payback' and 'paranoia' regarding her TRUE statement regarding a "vast right-wing conspiracy".
On the other hand, if all these Bush minions were tried and found guilty, that would do much to prove her conspiracy declaration.

So, what do you (and others here) think about this?
Yeah, I know it's just conjecture, yet I still can't help but wonder...

[sulphurdunn]

139. The right question to ask

is: Why Kucinich never had a chance from the get go? The answer is: What needs to be done to change that?

[Cherchez la Femme]

181. Too short, not 'handsome'

In other words, he doesn't have 'that Presidential mien'.
I don't like it, but I really think it's true.

Carter, Raygun, (OK GHW Bush not *so* much but still not bad if you go for that sort, also head of CIA & Raygun's right-hand-man), Clinton, Dubya all had, to one sizable group or another, 'looks' & a certain charisma.

Yeah, we're really that shallow.
IMHO of course.

Seriously, in this day and age Abe Lincoln would not stand a chance amirite?!

[sulphurdunn]

185. Yea. He has big ears too.

Also, his wife is too hot, taller than he is and has a mind of her own and talks foreign. That is not good politically. And of course, he's one of the handful of liberals in congress. That would be strike three even if he didn't have all those other liabilities.

[suzie]

292. The public usually votes for the person who works the hardest to win, even in local elections.

Since Kucinich has no interest whatsoever in winning, virtually no one voted for him.

[Solly Mack]

28. Thanks!

[Ignis]

221. Hey! I remember that DU.

Thanks for the memories. :)

[SwampG8r]

246. wow

before my time but quite an eyeopener
i see a lot of tune changing from familiar names

[defendandprotect]

13. Many disappointments . . . and few of us are laughing -- !!! +1000% --

[Blecht]

14. The system is broken

And Americans are too gutless to do what it takes to fix it.

[Jim Sagle]

18. That's a bit harsh, for at least two reasons.

For one, the system is now beyond our influence, as the effortless ramming of TARP down our collective throat in the face of 1000 to 1 opposition would indicate.

For another, a violent revolution would be crushed even if a hundred million Americans joined in. The PTB would be glad to kill half of us just to teach the other half a lesson.

[eomer]

38. Most Americans aren't too gutless, they are too delusional. n/t

[glitch]

98. Propaganda only has to work on enough of the people enough of the time.

and it's enough to game the system. We have been and are being well-gamed. But everyday more people catch a glimpse of the game and they don't forget it.
Eventually there will be a tipping point.

[Greyhound]

126. You've bought too much DoD propaganda.

The U.S. couldn't contain the chaos of even a million angry citizens disrupting across the nation.

The nation would collapse and "the government" would be hard pressed to even maintain pockets of authority on the eastern seaboard, and the rest of the country would sink into lawlessness.

These are the stakes, and the parasites know it.

[Jim Sagle]

133. Don't know what you're smoking, but it must be good.

[Greyhound]

148. What? No elaboration on the armada of cool toys available to be used against us?

:rofl:
In the event of widespread civilian unrest, The U.S. couldn't field enough hardware & manpower to hold NYC, let alone the whole nation, without stripping every base around the world (which they can't do in anything less than years) and even then, the results of that would simply create more unrest.

Iraq was roughly equivalent to California in area and population and after 12 years of deprivation and killing, followed by the complete destruction of their infrastructure and anything resembling a weapon beyond a rifle, followed by 7 years of all-out war, we still can't stop the violence they are determined to inflict on themselves over their religious differences.

And you think the military could keep "a hundred million" angry, well armed citizens in line?

Perhaps you should step away from the God-Box and look at what actually is.

[Jim Sagle]

153. What if our rulers took off their masks?

[Greyhound]

232. Well, we agree that the government is beyond our influence.

I'm not sure what you mean by taking off their masks...

[Jim Sagle]

242. They kinda sorta pretend to care about some things besides their own portfolitos.

If they stopped pretending, things could get very much worse overnight.

[liberation]

167. Oh, DoD could contain a million angry citizens easily

What the rich people could not deal with is with a few million people striking indefinitely. That capital is not going to concentrate itself you know?

We do not need an armed revolution, we need a national sit in. We need to learn once and for all that there is more of us than there is of them, and that they sure as fuck need us more than we need them. Massive changes could be achieves without firing a single bullet, but that requires organization and education of large amounts of people.

[awoke_in_2003]

182. sure they could...

they are doing a fine job holding Iraq and Afghanistan together, too :sarcasm:

[Greyhound]

286. No, they really couldn't. A million people can't be contained without their cooperation.

It's just too large a mass, and the consequences of trying would be total disaster.

[blindpig]

42. The 'system' was never what people thought it was.

They are just a lot more shameless nowadays. Still trying to figure that out but I suspect it has something to do with the needs of Capital no longer being met by the previous regime and their perception that there is no viable opposition. Can't do anything about the first but we can do something about the second, it is a matter of leadership.

[kath]

16. Another sad K& R.

:-(

[slay]

17. The sad truth

you say it better than I do. :(

[waronbanks]

19. Hell I was skeptical when he first spoke out against FISA

only to back down and vote with the corporatists. Before we even elected him. But there was no way I was letting Crazy John and his side kick Sarah get anywhere close to the button. And I accepted his (weak) excuses and hoped that wasnt a glimpse of the future if he won the election.

Guess what? It was a perfect indicator of what was to come.

His weakness in dealing with the Corporatists and their attacks on the working class is simply appalling. There is only one reasonable conclusion...he IS a Corporatist.

His administration is run by Corporatists. BP runs the show. Fox News...the Corporatists propaganda channel...sets the agenda. We dont look back at crimes from previous Corporatists. More wars. More military spending on cool remote controlled (civilian) killing machines.

Look...he ran as a champion of the working class. He governs as a Corporatist, stomping on the working class. End of story.

on edit...ok "stomping on the working class" might be a bit strong. But I think you get my point. Im sooo tired of this shit.

[Dr.Phool]

27. A little clarification on that.

I knew we were screwed when he put together his economic team during the campaign. Summers, Rubin, Goolsbee, Orszag, et al.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/17981 Parts 1 and 2.

Entire speech at Brookings website.

http://www.brookings.edu/events/2006/0405education.aspx

The entire agenda from vouchers, free trade, etc. are laid out by the whole bunch here.

[tbyg52]

68. That was the big giveaway (in more than one sense), wasn't it...? nt

[waronbanks]

147. That was when I KNEW we were screwed. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

49. Yes he is a Corporatist. Sickening isn't it?

:puke:

[Capitalocracy]

155. His campaign was cautiously ambiguous.

He spoke in broad terms about change and hope, which implies FDR-esque measures to improve the lives of the working class.

But his individual policy declarations were fairly moderate to start with, so I knew not to expect too much.

However, he hasn't even lived up to the cautious promises made during his campaign. That's what really gets me when people say we shouldn't be too disappointed, because he did promise some specific changes and then failed completely to deliver. Big example, closing Gitmo.

[Cherchez la Femme]

20. Yes, he was clear on many things

He avoided being interviewed & speaking to LGBTQ groups for a very long time, but when he finally did he was full of promises and roses. *sigh*

BTW, TY for your support (unsure if you're gay or not, but then again not even every LGBTQ person supports equal rights, go figure)

I liked Kucinich myself, but when Obama won the primary I settled down behind him and gave what money I could along with loads of time & effort.
However, I said at the time & still so aver, that the platforms between Hillary and Obama were near identical. Of course, here, I was roundly castigated for such heresy
--only a taste of things to come.

And no, he's no dolt (although given all his decisions, there could be in interesting debate on that subject);
but for a Constitutional Attorney, it's MHO there's something wrong...

Just my $.02 to your excellent post :hi:

[snake in the grass]

23. You're welcome.

No, I'm not gay. For me gay rights are simply civil rights and there will be no peace until there is finally justice. It sickens me to see people beaten and killed for their gender or sexual orientation, just to then hear so-called Democrats tell others in the same position to stop whining, because they didn't get a pony.

That angers me more than I care to express sometimes.

Like you, I was for Kucinich, but when he dropped out I didn't really care too much who won (maybe 45% to 55% Obama to Clinton). Obama was a political neophyte with a preacher's cadence, which did turn me off. However, after the way he left the Clinton machine burning in his tracks while still retaining a clean vest, I was impressed. I thought he'd have the guts to take on the Repigs where it counts, but no such luck. You know you're in political trouble when Harry Reid warns that you are too timid! I think my biggest disappointment, though, comes from my own party members; those who still insist that everything is going to be ok, because we have a transitional being in the White House. The (D) doesn't mean anything anymore. Obama makes me feel very ashamed.

[Cherchez la Femme]

30. You owe me a new keyboard!

"You know you're in political trouble when Harry Reid warns that you are too timid!"

:rofl:

[snake in the grass]

31. Sorry!

[Cherchez la Femme]

32. Honey, it was worth it for the laugh!

They haven't come very often this past decade...

[MissDeeds]

40. Another great post

Sadly, I agree. "The (D) doesn't mean anything anymore. Obama makes me feel very ashamed." This sham party doesn't represent me. And this weak, timid, neo-dem president no longer has my support.

[flyarm]

112. Ya know..I was in the Mid West all week..

and had to take a cab two ways to meetings..I had all African American Cab drivers..and each and every one of them told me all about their disgust of this administration..EVERY ONE OF THEM!

The oldest I would say was approx 36 years old..they were all disgusted so much so that they were telling me all about how they feel duped and pissed about what has transpired with this administration..in fact several of the young men told me they feel most duped about how the O admins. lied to them a fooled them about the Clintons...that was one of these young men's biggest contention of his disgust and anger! And that sentiment was repeated with each and every cab driver I had!

I know that is but a small snapshot of people..but 5 days 2 times a day taking a cab for 30 minutes + each way with cab drivers in a Midwest city..and each and every one of them were angry and disgusted ..and very very vocal about it!

To ignore those people, is to be a fool!

And those young men, were no one's fool! They are the workers ..they are voters..or not now..I can say I was pretty surprised.

[RKP5637]

204. I feel duped as do many D's I know. I am exceptionally disappointed and

disillusioned. This is NOT what I voted for. People can flame me or dump me from DU, but this is what I feel as a strong D and from a generational family of democratic leaders.

[RKP5637]

202. +1, n/t

[flyarm]

109. + 1 million!!

[countmyvote4real]

21. Very nicely said. Proud to recommend.

Good choice not incorporating "eat me" in your construct.

[snake in the grass]

24. It costs a lot of effort...

...to play nice, but I give it my best.

[Dr.Phool]

25. K&R, for the truth.

[lib2DaBone]

26. There's going to be many bitter people when he yanks Social Security...

He is going to gut Social Security and hand it over to Goldman Sachs... count on it.

He may not elected for a second term.. but I don't think he cares.

[Poboy]

59. Yes. George Carlin ~ The American Dream delivered the OP's "punchline"

An instant classic prediction which is about to be fulfilled. This clip is only half the rant, but addresses Soc. Security.

George Carlin ~ The American Dream

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q&feature=related

If anyone hasn't seen this, it is mandatory viewing imo.
Just 3 minutes of your time.

[russspeakeasy]

87. Carlin

Absolutely, positively worth the time...thanks...............

[Raster]

187. This should be required viewing for "Life in America 101"

It's a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club."

[Ignis]

222. +1 for Carlin

Another non-member of the Big Club checking in. :hi:

[RKP5637]

205. My gut feeling is, for what it's worth, he well might not run for a second term, and

might not care.

[Solly Mack]

29. K&R

[draa]

33. Wow

I suggest that you and everybody else vote Republican then. I'm sure they will meet ALL of your needs, just like they have for the last decade. Besides, Republicans have already said they would investigate Obama, just like Clinton, and impeachment would be on the table. Just re-elect them and all of you troubles will be over. Not.

[snake in the grass]

34. No, Repigs won't give me what I need.

However, they are at least upfront about what they will do. I can respect that as opposed to someone who sold himself as a transitional figure, but pretty much left all that at the White House door when he moved in.

Thank you for your analysis. It was truly beyond imagination and we will be sure to discuss it at the next Oompa Loompa conference.

[Steely_Dan]

64. LOLOLOLOL!

Now you owe ME a new keyboard.

[snake in the grass]

184. I should shut up...

...before I go bankrupt!

[TBF]

46. The status quo would have us believe that we have 2 choices -

dems or thugs.

There are many more choices, most of which I cannot elaborate on and stay within the rules here, but suffice it to say that I personally have removed the electoral blinders.

Of course we will all vote for dems, that is a no-brainer that takes us just a few moments to think about and perform. Beyond that we have so much more to do.

[glitch]

99. "Beyond that we have so much more to do." VERY well said. nt

[eilen]

234. Fer Shure. +10000 nt

[LWolf]

60. Weakest talking point of a whole shit load. nt

[truth2power]

110. False Dichotomy..

http://www.unc.edu/depts/wcweb/handouts/fallacies.html#17

False dichotomy
Definition: In false dichotomy, the arguer sets up the situation so it looks like there are only two choices. The arguer then eliminates one of the choices, so it seems that we are left with only one option: the one the arguer wanted us to pick in the first place. But often there are really many different options, not just two—and if we thought about them all, we might not be so quick to pick the one the arguer recommends!

Example: "Caldwell Hall is in bad shape. Either we tear it down and put up a new building, or we continue to risk students' safety. Obviously we shouldn't risk anyone's safety, so we must tear the building down." The argument neglects to mention the possibility that we might repair the building or find some way to protect students from the risks in question—for example, if only a few rooms are in bad shape, perhaps we shouldn't hold classes in those rooms.

Tip: Examine your own arguments: If you're saying that we have to choose between just two options, is that really so? Or are there other alternatives you haven't mentioned? If there are other alternatives, don't just ignore them—explain why they, too, should be ruled out. Although there's no formal name for it, assuming that there are only three options, four options, etc. when really there are more is similar to false dichotomy and should also be avoided.

[bvar22]

132. Thats very sensible!

credit Tom Tomorrow

[racaulk]

144. Chuckles!

:hi:

[Dr.Phool]

193. Democrats are afraid of investigating Republicans.

They're afraid that the Republicans will retaliate, so they do nothing. Republicans laugh all the way until they are in power again, and investigate made-up allegations all day long.

So, who's the sucker here? The Dems keep letting the Republicans steal their lunch money, and they won't even politely ask for it back.

It's gotten me to the point, I'm ready to start calling them the "Democrat Party".

[Hannah Bell]

255. but the things they "investigate" are bullshit. did clinton get a blowjob? was obama born in

afghanistan?

it's all a show. those aren't real issues, & the wingers "investigating" know they're not. you think they care if clinton got a bj? lol. it's something safe to investigate, for the show.

so the democrats have an excuse -- oooh, the scary republicans, going after us on this important blow job thingy, we've got to get behind our dear president & not think about the welfare reform & telecom bill he's helping push through.

it's a show, & we're being played.

[Dr.Phool]

281. I'd like to see someone investigate to see if Dan Burton wipes his ass.

Put him under oath. Make him prove it.

[girl gone mad]

198. I'm skeeeered.

:scared:

[Tesha]

218. Golly! We've never thought of that! Thanks for letting us know! (NT)

[howmad1]

230. If you think it makes one fucking difference who wins:

you are delusional.

[eilen]

235. Clearly our hands are tied

we have no where else to go. We must submit and meekly accept the power and chess playing superiority of the O.
It's the only sensible thing to do.

[G_j]

35. To let crimes against humanity go unpunished, and unrecognized

We look to a future of more human rights abuses and less accountability across the globe. We haven't taken the high ground, and we hold no moral authority. To let crimes against humanity go unpunished, and unrecognized, is another crime against humanity and the future of all earth's children.

[snake in the grass]

36. In a nutshell!

The crimes are in the open. Hell, they even brag about them. If Obama refuses to deal with this, it will deal with us sooner or later.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

37. If Dostoevsky were writing today it would be : Crime and Retirement and the Speaking Circuit

No more Punishment. Everything is acceptable. We have pushed the outer limits of tolerance to the degree that absolutely nothing is out of bounds or unexplainable or unacceptable under the guise of political expediency.

What a puny country we have become in terms of our collective ethos. We were founded by great visionaries with enormous reserves of personal bravery. Where are their modern American equivalents?

[Capitalocracy]

150. I lol'd

at the subject line

[90-percent]

41. Squandered

Squandered

The hopes and opportunities to right this ship have all been pissed away entirely.

Here's a bit from the late comedian Bill Hicks that explains one possibility for Obama's servitude to the corporations at the expense of we the people:

“I have this feeling man, ’cause you know, it’s just a handful of people who run everything, you know … that’s true, it’s provable. It’s not … I’m not a f**king conspiracy nut, it’s provable. A handful, a very small elite, run and own these corporations, which include the mainstream media. I have this feeling that whoever is elected president, like Clinton was, no matter what you promise on the campaign trail – blah, blah, blah – when you win, you go into this smoke-filled room with the twelve industrialist capitalist scum-f**ks who got you in there. And you’re in this smoky room, and this little film screen comes down … and a big guy with a cigar goes, “Roll the film.” And it’s a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you’ve never seen before … that looks suspiciously like it’s from the grassy knoll. And then the screen goes up and the lights come up, and they go to the new president, “Any questions?” “Er, just what my agenda is.” “First we bomb Baghdad.” “You got it…”

The "Corporations own you" bit from George Carlin also reveals a possible reason why Obama seems to be nothing more than an articulate GWB.

-90% Jimmy

[kiva]

100. Of all of the things that make me angry about this

administration, you have hit on the worst - squandered. A chance for real health reform, squandered. An opportunity to extend full civil rights to GLBTers, squandered. An opening to re-institute meaningful regulation regarding financial institutions, squandered. The opportunity to punish the murderous criminals from the previous administration, squandered. The chance to show the rest of the world that Americans are not the warmongering, pro-torturing thugs that B*** made us appear to be, squandered. The environment, squandered.

Let's be honest here...people were so furious last election that we could have run a dog for president and beat the Republicans. Obama's biggest advantage was that, because of his minimal background in national politics, he was in essence a clean slate. People wanted change, were willing to support change...and all of that was squandered.

[eilen]

236. But bbut but... he won the Nobel Peace Prize!

Clearly that means something!

I think that is one of the things that kind of pisses me off. It cheapens it. The least he could have done was refuse it. Have some integrity. I mean, what does a Nobel Peace Prize mean anymore?

[Hydra]

195. I think you've nailed it

I heard something similar about Bill Clinton.

You have all of these hopes, dreams and ambitions when you fight for the presidency. If you're a good person, you think about how much you can help people in being able to live the life they want.

And then you get "The Talk." Not unlike "The Lead, or the Silver."

Bill Clinton is now part of the inside crowd, and not dead. President Obama will probably be the same.

You have to sign on the dotted line to have the office.

[MissDeeds]

43. Excellent post

K&R

[geckosfeet]

44. Aftre Shrely Shirod, and in light of Elizbeth Warren not being nominated,

and given all the evidence supporting your perspective, I would have to agree.

He does seem cowardly. Either that or his beliefs are not being borne out by his actions. Or, he is simply a liar..

[TBF]

45. Highly recommended. nt

[HughMoran]

53. Highly unrecommended due to disingenuous nature of post

How can 'not prosecuting', which was NEVER on the table suddenly be the last straw???????

:eyes:
:eyes:
:eyes:
:eyes:
:eyes:
:eyes:

[TBF]

65. To me the post came across as honest,

many are disappointed with this administration and that is what he is conveying. I am not at all surprised by the non-prosecution of war criminals (particularly with the war continuing) or the "business as usual" pragmatic approach of this president. I will admit surprise at just how much he is pursuing privatization of schools, social security, etc... - that has gone way beyond what I expected.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snake in the grass]

215. Luckily,

...I never get tired of addressing posts like this. I do, however, have to ask myself if the people making comments such as yours are being intentionally dense or if they really are so ethically challenged, when they toss an 'ignorance' grenade. It is completely irrelevant whether investigations were 'on the table' or not. If they weren't, they sure as fuck should have been.

You see, we're not talking about getting serviced in the Oval Office by some groupie. We're talking about real crimes with a lot of real dead people (not the type, who get to go home once the credits roll); crimes done in our names, which makes us, too, to a certain point responsible. This point was for me the most important one for the future for two reasons:

1) We would have shown the world that we are truly a nation of laws. With what Obama has just done, he has sent the world a Texas-sized "fuck you". He has signaled that we will do what we want, take what we want, kill whom we want and there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it.

Which leads to point two.

2) They will do it again. Rumsfeld and Cheney were both in the Nixon Administration. They waited in the slime for twenty-five years until they saw their chance to strike again in 2000. And they did just that. Do you think having a (D) in the White House is going to stop them?

I will assume that you really are a Democrat, which leads me to believe you were attracted to the party because of policy issues and not because you think donkeys are cuter than elephants, so let me ask you point blank:

Do you find it acceptable in a nation of laws, that war criminals are getting a free pass? Don't give me any of your runaround or taunting. Answer the question.

Your answer may help you make a decision about where your real loyalties lie and who you are as a person. Of course, that requires some honesty.

Your move...

[Lucian]

257. Your screen name fits you very well.

:eyes:

[snake in the grass]

262. Yes, I know.

Thanks.

[Lucian]

269. I was talking to HughMoran.

[snake in the grass]

271. Well,

that would be me in this case too, huh?

I'm so used to hearing that one about my name that I assumed.

And it seems I did just that. Excuse me.

[Lucian]

272. No worries.

I actually agreed with your OP.

[Roland99]

47. Sad to say but I wholeheartedly agree. Been disappointed for a long time.

[HughMoran]

51. Another "PRESECUTE NOW!!!!!!111!!!one!!" thread

Unrec and hide this attention grabbing stunt.

[G_j]

55. shall I use a prevailing intellectually dishonest tactic back at ya?

"I guess you approve of Bush and Cheney's crimes."

[HughMoran]

56. So you think something that was never on the table should be used as a 'last straw' 18 months in?

You think that's being intellectually honest?

:eyes:

[G_j]

57. for me it was the first straw

unlike the OP.

Though it was unclear how much "on the table" the issue of accountability was,
I don't remember being told that NOTHING would be done, and NOBODY would be held accountable.

[Dr.Phool]

69. Sometimes you're supposed to do what's right.

No matter what was on the table.

[neverforget]

111. Damn right! I wish I could rec this post.

[liberation]

170. But doing what is right is more likely to scratch the shiny teflon coating

why would risk that?

The circular apology MO seems to be endless:

Obama has not been long enough in office, thus negative views of his policies unwarranted since they come from lack of proper evaluation time, yet he has managed to do more in that sort amount of time that FDR's first two terms, even though Obama is powerless to do anything since he does not have enough votes in both houses like FDR supposedly did. But rest assured that whatever policy he is implemented is not only justified but correct since he is following campaign promises, except for the times where he is breaking his campaign promises in which case he is doing so because he has to "realistically adapt" to the changing conditions and realities between campaigning and governing. But event that discussion is irrelevant, since anyone on the left casting a negative opinion of the policies by the Obama administration is being unrealistic, because among other things not enough time has passed, and yet he has managed to do more than...

... and the circle continues. I finally understand why it is called "spin." I think... ;-)

Same as it ever was.

[Capitalocracy]

194. Post this and I'll rec it. nt

[tomp]

72. no one prosecutes without investigation.

investigation was on the table.....

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/11/13/torture_commission


....it's obama and you who are being intellectually dishonest.

[G_j]

82. Obama quote:

(from your link)

2008

"What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material
(from your link)

right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.

So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing betyween really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity. You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in coverups of those crimes with knowledge forefront, then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it."

[spoony]

247. Would somebody mind translating that.

Babelfish doesn't seem to have a "Chucklian" option.

[Greyhound]

287. Sorry, no. But he does seem to be terribly upset about something.

Look, his little glasses are askew...
:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

54. Reading your comments, I don't think you have an unrealistic assessment of the President

what he has done and what is possible for him to accomplish.

[tomp]

75. you and hugh moran are like republicans....

.... accusing others of their own faults. it is you who are unrealistic.

what is possible is what is attempted and succeeds. that is all.

either you don't see the absolutely dire situation in the u.s. and the world, or you believe obama's way will work.

either way completely unrealistic.

[fascisthunter]

77. .

[NJmaverick]

86. Those comments prove my point. You don't have a realistic perspective on things

In fact there is quite a bit of irony in your post.

[U4ikLefty]

159. Your comment proves that you closed your eyes a long time ago.

[tomp]

161. care to elaborate or should we guess what you mean?

so much like obama--think all you have to do is claim victory or success in order to have it.

what "proof" do you see?

[Touchdown]

285. Man, are you a like broken record today!

Reality... Perspective... Facts... List.... Magic Wand...Have a... Coke... and... Smile!

[spoony]

248. Happy to agree with you, the OP isn't unrealistic at all. nt

[femrap]

58. I agree with you

100%. He doesn't give a rat's ass about the 'little' people.

It's up to us to take care of us.

[treestar]

61. Happy to unrec

Maybe you think you are living in the century Star Trek takes place in, or something.

[liberation]

162. I take you have no argument to counterpoint in an intelligent matter what the author wrote

Assuming you even bothered to read the post. And just focused on the picture.

[Skittles]

174. of course not

they never really do because they live in a fantasy world

[liberation]

163. Dupe

.

[snake in the grass]

216. You've got it almost right.

I am a member of the Klingon Honour Guard from the 24th century, but I do live in this one.

I was sent back in time to collect all your women, destroy your nacho cheese factories, and to single-handedly destroy the Obama Administration because we Klingons just don't like him. No reason, mind you. We just get up every morning and curse him, especially when the batteries in our pain sticks are empty.

Yep, you've got me.

[Stoic]

63. No, no, no! You gotta have Hope(tm) and Believe(tm)!

Never mind what that man is doing behind the curtain.

[MikeNY]

66. His administration is suffering from moral bankruptcy

Everyone thought this guy was going to change Washington - well that is what we are promised every 4 years. This time, we had a great orator to do it for us. Really, it doesn't matter what political party you are affiliated with at this point, it is clear that President Obama's interest in affiliating himself with large business interests has come at a huge cost to the middle class (does that term still exist in this society?). Mr. Obama will be judged by history very harshly for not prosecuting the Bush war crimes, but also for allowing businesses to run his own administration into the ground. His foreign policy objectives are at odds with all liberals, and now even a significant number of conservatives. After 10 years in Afghanistan, this is the longest war in American history. He will save some face if he removes all combat troops, as planned, just in time for the next election cycle to start. But for those paying attention, it is clear and calculated politics.

President Obama, like many Democrats before him, will play to his base when it suits him, but his long diatribes and orations are starting to annoy pretty much everyone. Actions speak louder than words, and Mr. Obama's plan to change everything involved hiring an entire staff of Washington insiders, including Secretary of State Clinton, to placate those who wanted to see her win the Presidency. Instead of pursuing a foreign policy of peaceful relations with country, he is playing war games with North Korea and pushing for sanctions against Iran. Latest WSJ reports show that he is illegally conducting operations in Pakistan without notifying Congress; a violation of the War Powers Act and even the resolution that allowed Bush to prosecute his battles across the Middle East.

Something sure did change when Mr. Obama got into office, and it seems like it was him, and not society.

[eilen]

240. Did you get the Obama "appeal to the left" email? nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. People voted for "change". They got politics-as-usal and an as-usual politician. K&R

[Dr.Phool]

70. Kick and Rec.

[tavalon]

73. This is all so sadly true but I've been away for a time

Is there something specific that was the trigger for this well laid out argument?

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

76. Gee...now maybe you'll get why the deepsixing of BCCI at THAT crucial point in history mattered to

some of us. Yes...I am sincerely disappointed in the secrecy...I expected respect for open government. I KNEW we wouldn't get open government from Clintons, but, I did expect a greater amount of transparency from Obama administration than we are getting. The only positive I see is that it is still more than we'd get from McCain or Clinton.

Rahm and the secrecy machine retreads from Clinton WH need to go....and, sadly, I doubt they will....Obama may not know how to get out of the compromising positions he has put himself with this crew.

I hope for the nation's sake...and HIS presidency...that he finds a way. Never rely on 'WH experience' of those Dems who protected BushInc in the FIRST place.

[fascisthunter]

79. sad time in US history

no not sad, actually pathetic.

[blm]

94. just about EVERYTHING tragically evil that's happened to our nation has been because BCCI coverups

continued throughout the 90s.

[glitch]

101. Goes back even farther. Have you read Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets" yet?

The game has been rigged over many generations by professionals at it.

[blm]

104. Of course...those matters segued into and became BCCI matters in the 70s and that is why its

deepsixing was so crucial to BushInc and its fascist cronies around the world. From post WW2 Nazi sympathizers in US government to WalMart's takeover of towns across America to the funding of global terror networks and their nuclear ambitions, BCCI's road was mined with BFEE's treasons and tragic appetite for Fascism.

[glitch]

105. I knew you had :) It's a fascinating read for those who don't know the history. nt

[blm]

122. I wish more people would, glitch. They wouldn't defend Clinton's protection of BushInc if they read

more about BCCI. To many it's just another runofthemill 'banking' scandal that they can't wrap their brains around so they won't even try. Fine for them that we 'moved on' and past this boring matter. They don't seem to get that Bush2 and a 9-11 event would NEVER have happened but for the protection of GHWBush and so many of his cronies, including Bin Ladens.

[glitch]

141. So do I blm, so do I. I am so glad DU has people like you and Octafish to remind us

to look behind the propaganda. :hi:

[liberation]

172. How is this time that radically different from the norm in US history

I think lots of people have an idealized view of a country that never was.

[democrank]

78. K & R

[CoffeeCat]

80. I don't think the Presidency...

...is relevant in this country any longer.

If you're part of the neocon/corporatist party--and you're the President--they'll use you to
better justify ramming through their agenda. That's exactly what they did with Bush. He
explained very well why it was necessary to destroy our democracy, spy on us illegally, privatize
Social Security, torture and embark on an unnecessary war with Iraq.

However, if you're not toeing the neocon line--you're pretty much powerless. You do what they
say. The neocon/corporatists are fully in power in this country. There is no democracy any
more, and the staged in fighting between Democrats and Republicans in the Congress is nothing
but kabuki theater to keep the masses convinced that we still have a two-party system.

People think Obama is a jackass or that he's a lily-livered coward. Or that he just broke a bunch
of campaign promises. Obama was not entrenched in politics. He was an outsider. Until he gave
his famous speech at the DNC he was virtually an unknown--even in DC circles. There were many
articles published before and during the Presidential campaign about Obama working out and skipping
the DC-cocktail parties. Obama was not owned.

However, he is now. He took so much money from Wall Street, the health-insurance companies and Big
Pharma--and they're using his Presidency to call in favors.

Look at healthcare reform. OMG, what a heartbreaking crock and a disappointment. Obama is surrounded
by and playing in a system where he has no power. I'm sorry, I know many people will not be able to
believe that, but it is true. The health insurance companies wrote the damn healthcare bill. His
financial-regulatory and economic team is staffed by former Wall Street thugs. BP is running the
oil spill show, and as the OP said--they're defying EPA demands to stop using Corexit. BP didn't listen
to the EPA (in effect, they ignored the White House) because the White House is unimportant to them.

The corporations and their political partners in crime run this country. And they will continue to run
this country, and us, into the ground--to weaken us and render us powerless and penniless.

That's exactly what is happening.

I really believe that Obama is a good guy. I think he made a lot of promises that he intended to keep. I don't
think he's a bad guy. I think we've got a bad system of government right now.

I no longer expect Obama to do "great things" or save the day or keep his campaign promises. What I hope for now
is that he will just do the right thing--and be the President who somehow explains to the American people what has
happened to their democracy. Someone needs to out these mother(*&*%rs.

I would be happy if Obama could just do that.

[Dr.Phool]

85. Kabuki theater indeed.

Back in 2004, I spent a week in meetings in DC. Several at the new DNC building, and with the DCCC there. On the ground floor is a restaurant and bar run by the party, called "The Democratic National Club. We'd go in for a few cocktails every day.

There were almost as many Republican Congressmen in there drinking as there were Democratic Congressmen. They weren't so disagreeable in there.

[phasma ex machina]

102. Re: "Obama is surrounded by and playing in a system where he has no power."

It seems that you peeked behind the curtain and saw the "Full Monty."

You aren't supposed to do that.

The powers-that-be are going to get you.

:rofl:

[CoffeeCat]

136. There is no curtain...

All you have to do is pay attention to see what is happening--right in front of us.

[RKP5637]

208. Excellent analysis IMO. n/t

[HughMoran]

83. Ironic subject line

The joke is over alright.

i.e., the pretending

[Starry Messenger]

84. I expected a Dem...

which is always a mixed bag on a *good day*. What this is, isn't what I voted for. The arguments put forth by strategists that a Dem has to mix in a little Republican policy in order to appeal to moderates but will drop that and swing left in office is a total lie which I'm not going to fall for ever again. Those same people now tell us this is exactly what they knew they were voting for and that they are happy about it, which tells me that they lied about the "strategy" to many of us. Frankly I'm more disappointed with DUers who cover for that shit then I am with our elected politicians. I expect to be stabbed in the back by the powers that be. The extra stabs from people who should be looking out for the little guy deeply frighten me.

[cliffordu]

88. Waaaalllll....

If you truly give up don't bore us with the minutia.

[quiet.american]

89. So now Obama is the Attorney General, too, eh? nt

[alarimer]

90. I never thought he was anything more than just another politician.

I was dismayed by the adulation during the election; it seemed out of place and I figured a lot of people would be disappointed.

I actually hoped that I would be wrong, that my sense of unease would be relieved by what he chose to do. But with the appointment of so many Wall Streeters to the Cabinet and other positions and with the whole Rick Warren debacle, I knew I was right. Here was a politician, one of many, who would say all the right things to get elected and only show his true colors after taking office. But there were hints before the election too- his pledge to extend the Afghanistan mess, the FISA vote. Still I voted for him but I am not voting for him again in 2012. I certainly won't vote for a Republican. I may abstain or write in someone but I will not vote for Obama.

[suzie]

189. Yeah, bring back the Republicans. Because the last 8 years didn't show us how bad they

can really be--despite Ralph Nader guaranteeing that there was no difference.

Thank you, thank you.

And remember that when another Scalia is appointed to the Supreme Court and the rest of the Federal Courts are filled with jr. Scalias, you made it possible. Yay!

But then, courts don't matter do they? Just keep telling yourself that Sotomayor and Kagan are exactly equal to Roberts and Alito.

And the rest of us will be so grateful to you for the lesson which you will inflict on us.

[scentopine]

92. You need to put on your rose colored 3D glasses. It hides the layoffs...

BP disaster, trillions for wall street, tax credits for us, trillions for war, billions (trillions?) for health insurance CEOs, billions for wall street CEOs.

Meanwhile the non-rich get scolded for being lazy, private schools run by corrupt greedy CEOs and they idiot MBAs, and out sourcing is hemorrhaging jobs and intellectual property to Asia for pennies on the dollar.

Add to this a regular scolding to "those on the left" and you have a rigid centrist who only sees rich people.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

95. agreed, and rec'd

eom

[NYC Liberal]

96. You want him to be just like George W Bush.

Only because it'd be things you agree with, that would make the tactics okay. Politicize the Justice Department? Order investigations on people? Hey, it's all good! Nevermind the fact that doing so is totally and completely unethical and would be something I would NOT want to see any president do. Actually, Bush did do it. And I vehemently disagreed with it because it's wrong.

:puke:

[Capitalocracy]

151. It's not politicization. It's their job.

Prosecuting war crimes is their job. I want a justice department that does its job. I don't care if it means putting everyone in Congress in prison for their role in these crimes, they need to investigate and punish the guilty.

Let me present an idea to you: Maybe they're politicizing this by NOT punishing war criminals. After all, these people are criminals, and they're NOT being punished because of politics. If you believe that right-wing "politicization of the justice department" line, you've been had.

[suzie]

191. Are you a prosecutor or a judge? Because you seem awfully certain about what constitutes

a crime punishable under Federal law.

[Capitalocracy]

192. Well, people have been punished under Federal Law for waterboarding.

But apparently it's OK if the President orders it.

Or do you think torture should just be standard operating procedure in the U.S.?

[suzie]

199. Nice strawman.

You know, that may be a good technique on an internet discussion board, but the times when I've been in a courtroom, it seems like they have these strange ideas about "proof", "getting a jury to convict".

And it's a lot tougher than on TV court or in discussion board fantasizing.

[snake in the grass]

270. Let's see here...

In a very short period of time with little effort, my uneducated mind googled the following:

1947 - Japanese Officer sentenced to 15 years hard labour for the waterboarding of a U.S. civilian.

John McCain reminds us that Japanese soldiers were executed for waterboarding U.S. soldiers.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_n2137_v88/ai_6742034/"> 1988 - President Reagan signs U.N. convention against torture.

U.S. courts honour international treaties.

I wanted to link to the current list of treaties in force, but the State Department has removed it.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Cheney_admits_authorizing_detainees_torture_1215.html">Former VP Cheney openly admits to authorizing torture.

Lady Gaga stumbles over her idiotic footwear.

That should get the ball rolling toward investigations - investigations which would most certainly lead to some prosecutions, if not convictions. Not to mention the benefit of getting this rot into the open for all to see; even those who choose not to.

Elvis has left the building.

[suzie]

282. None of your links go to anything.

Sorry, but you want prosecutions based on the same kind of sloppiness?

Your first link would seem to go to something about a trial under a military tribunal. I thought that military tribunals were not deemed acceptable by the "don't worry about due process or the rule of law, we want to get the rot into the open" crowd.

Investigations that are not oriented toward prosecution or conviction sounds awfully like the worst practices of the last administration. But I guess some are not bothered by those little details.

Those who admire Richard Nixon.

[snake in the grass]

289. I regret that you cannot seem to connect the dots.

I regret even more that you would appear to be happy to continue smelling the rot. Not doing anything about it is a very big mistake and that you fail to see that is probably the most regrettable thing of all.

[suzie]

290. Yeah, insults are always good in a courtroom, too. Makes a winnable case every time.

Don't worry about little stuff like evidence, convincing a jury about all kinds of intricate details that they're not likely to grasp, just go with the insults.

That's always a ticket to a conviction.

At least in the fantasy world of the virulently anti-Obama "left".

[snake in the grass]

293. I'm angry that the investigations have been put to rest.

With them possible prosecutions could have been made. It's really not too hard to wrap one's head around. If that's too hot for President Obama, he could lead the charge for something like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa (operative word is "lead"). This problem isn't going away just because the DoJ isn't investigating it. It will fester in preparation for the next grab and when they do it, remember this exchange and ask yourself who was living in a fantasy world. Not that it will matter anymore, but you are more than welcome to come over to my pile of ashes for some squirrel steaks and we can discuss it, when that day arrives.

In the meantime, you could consider using some other meme, besides the "anti-Obama left" one. It does get boring after a time.

Why not just say we hate freedom, or America, or the troops, or something along those lines? It would be just as accurate and, somehow, I believe it's not too far off from what you really think.

By the way, I misunderstood your remark about my links leading to nowhere. I don't know where I made the mistake with the code, but I will get them to you sometime tomorrow. If anything, they will make a good read when Day X arrives.

[NYC Liberal]

275. Yes it is politicalization when Obama orders it.

The problem isn't the investigation, the problem is with the president stepping into the Justice Department and ordering investigations on people.

I want crimes investigated the right way. I do NOT want Nixon's Justice Department or Bush's Justice Department. No fucking thank you.

[JonLP24]

178. LOL @ politicize

I'm sure those angry at the lack of action towards law breakers is not because they want the JD to order investigations on political opponents. They are angry because the JD is not seeking justice against the war criminals and torturers.

[NYC Liberal]

276. No they are angry because Obama doesn't personally

intervene and order it.

I'd rather not have another Richard Nixon, but a number of people on DU have said they think Nixon was just great...a liberal even...so that explains that. :puke:

[snake in the grass]

229. No.

I want him to do his fucking job in upholding and protecting the U.S. Constitution, not the Masters of the Universe, who seek to reverse all that was achieved through FDR, basically creating a new serf class.

That would be a great start.

[NYC Liberal]

277. No you don't.

You want a liberal George W. Bush. A liberal Dick Nixon. One who does whatever it takes to get their policies enacted.

If Obama acted EXACTLY as Bush did, but he was pushing liberal policy instead of right-wing policy, many here would cheer.

[Capitalocracy]

283. When did the rule of law become a liberal policy?

When did not torturing become a liberal policy? I want Bush and Cheney to be prosecuted because we need to live in a society where the next right-wing guy to come along knows he'll face consequences if he orders torture. We NEED that as a free and democratic society. Impunity is NEVER a good idea. And if Obama keeps Gitmo open much longer and ends up in jail for it too, I have the intellectual honesty not to cry about it as long as the same happens to Bush et al. It's not about politics, it's about not living in a fascist country.

[spoony]

249. Bush passionately upheld the rule of law?

Shit, where was I?

[NYC Liberal]

278. No he didn't. He did anything and everything

to get his agenda enacted. Many here would cheer if Obama acted exactly as Bush did, only pushing liberal policies instead of right-wing ones.

[hedgehog]

97. I'd like to see what you post a year from now.

By that time some of the health care reforms will be kicking in, the War in Afghanistan will be winding down without the Republicans accusing the Democrats of doing a cut and run, and a lot of the myths about the spill in the Gulf will be dispelled.

[Kermitt Gribble]

107. Care to enlighten us on these "myths" about the spill in the Gulf?? n/t

[hedgehog]

206. Sorry , just got back -

what about the story about how the federal government/Coast Guard/Obama /Army Corps of Engineers were all drinking the BP koolaid standing around doing nothing and even worse, not allowing Bobby Jindal to go out there and set up protective sand berms!


Which, it turns out, would have made things worse.

[Kermitt Gribble]

210. Well, that's definitely a myth.

The fact is, they weren't standing around doing nothing. They were helping BP dump corexit against the EPA's orders, and helping to enforce BP's ban on the media and the public seeing how bad the disaster really is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

113. I agee with you that Obama's "necessary" war in Afghanistan is being fought for PR.

To avoid being accused of cutting and running by the Republicans.

[fascisthunter]

123. so lives get wasted for a president's PR...

just think about that...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

129. I think the proper PR phrasing is, "Sacrificed to protect our country..."

To be followed by a pretty monument the politicians can stand if front while weeping crocodile tears and use as a recruitment poster for more cannon fodder.

[bvar22]

196. Obama IS playing Chess....

Sacrificing Pawns (grunts) to protect the Royalty (Themselves).
.
.
.
.
That really sucks if you're a pawn (the lower 99%).


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[hedgehog]

207. In a democracy, where does PR stop and where does steering the will of

the people begin? One of the reasons for WWII was the number of Germans convinced that the country had been betrayed in WWI. I don't like the War in Afghanistan, but I'd like to see us all learn and lesson and stay out of the next war entirely.

[scentopine]

116. "the sun will come out tomorrow..." the new centrist anthem

So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
I love ya
Tomorrow!
You're always
A year
A way!

Don't you just love a good show tune?

[valerief]

176. That's what the holy men tell us. It'll be better later. In Heaven.

In the meantime, take it in the chin.

[fascisthunter]

121. I've Read more Than Posted and Your Take Seems to Seldomly Pan Out

myths about the Gulf oil spill????

[Bluebear]

145. "a lot of the myths about the spill in the Gulf" - well tell us about the myths now, please.

[Frank Cannon]

149. And the Great Pumpkin will SURELY visit the pumpkin patch this year. n/t

[geek tragedy]

265. No, the haters will always find some reason to hate Democrats

especially Democrats who win elections.

[snake in the grass]

268. Well,

being that I'm uninsured and cannot afford it at the moment, maybe I'll be dead or homeless next year if something were to happen.

Makes you enjoy each breathe all the more, I tell you!

[pansypoo53219]

103. in the desire to be on top of the rite wing attacks,

somebody in the white house didn't get all the facts. i sincerely doubt obama had the time to fire shirley.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

127. very well done

I kinda figured this was the case but now I know without a doubt.

[flyarm]

156. Funny how a thread that was posted here on DU got deleted..when reposted here, that was there for

all to see..seems some people don't want others to know what they posted..and how nafarious they posibly are?? Why else would a thread ..all here could read ..would be deleted from being reposted?

Hmm..makes one wonder..

[tiredtoo]

108. Ladies and gentlemen,

This is an evolutionary process not a revolutionary process.
Consider the shit sandwhich Obama was handed when he took office. Two wars, one uncalled for the other mismanaged for years. The worst economic conditions since the great depression of the 30s. Republicans who thought there only job as elected officials was to eliminate Obama. A right wing sponsored tea people cult. A cable channel who works in conjunction with these in their efforts to dismantle what we have built.

While everything accomplished in the first 18 months has not been what we had hoped for, it has been a step in the right direction. This type of change takes time, it took us 30-40 years to get in this mess we cannot expect to clean it up in less then two years.
I don't like Emanual, Geitner or Summers but currently that is what we have to work with. We must continue to exert all the pressure we can to continue our progress. As mentioned in other threads I have been responding to all requests for money with a reply. "I will give again when Elizabeth Warren is appointed head of consumer protection agency" We cannot give up now, we are moving forward.
Carry on, carry on !

[flyarm]

117. Oh come on..do some research into what has transpired.

Look who Obama has put into his administration..their ties to the new world order..

Look up Kissinger and Obama..

Look up Geithner's ties to Kissinger..

Do a little more than tell us how bad things were when Obama came into office..he knew what he was running for..and it sure was not the boy scouts.

Look who he has surrounded himself with!

wash, rinse, spin , repeat...

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I have posted this many times and will repeat it here..

Obama had Henry Kissinger represent his administration in Talks with Russia
Posted by flyarm in General Discussion
Wed Jul 07th 2010, 04:46 PM
Shortly after taking office and even before ..as President Elect..Obama asked Henry Kissinger..knick name.."The Butcher of Cambodia"..to represent his administration in Talks with Russia..lets look as some serious connections here of Geithner , Kissinger and Obama...shall we..( edit to add: much of this i have posted many times in the past.)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Cold warrior Henry Kissinger woos Russia for Barack Obama

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...

Mr Obama apparently chose Mr Kissinger for his consummate diplomatic skills and his popularity in Moscow, an affection earned by his open acknowledgment of Russia's international resurgence.
Despite his pariah status with many Left-wingers in Mr Obama's Democratic Party, the president forged relations with Mr Kissinger during his campaign.

The compliment was returned when the 85-year-old veteran of the Nixon and Ford administrations said last month that the young president was in a position to create a "new world order" by shifting US foreign policy away from the hostile stance of the Bush administration.

He publicly supported Mr Obama's notion of unconditional talks with Iran, though not at the presidential level.

Further demonstrating his willingness to work with his opponents on foreign policy issues, Mr Obama turned to two veteran Republicans steeped in Cold War experience to press home his plans.

Shortly after Mr Kissinger's trip, Richard Lugar, a Republican senator from Indiana who has worked on nuclear disarmament issues for 30 years, also visited Moscow. George Schultz, another former secretary of state, has also played a vital role.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

TIMOTHY GEITHNER

Biography

Early life and education
Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York.<2> He spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, Zambia, India and Thailand, where he completed high school at International School Bangkok.<3> He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with a B.A. in government and Asian studies in 1983.<4> He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985.<4><5> He has studied Chinese<4> and Japanese.<6>

Geithner's paternal grandfather, Paul Herman Geithner (1902–1972), emigrated with his parents from the German town of Zeulenroda to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1908.<7> His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York.

During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once.<8>

Timothy Geithner's mother, Deborah Moore Geithner, is a pianist and piano teacher in Larchmont, New York where his parents currently reside. Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.

Early career

After completing his studies,

Geithner worked for Kissinger and Associates in Washington, D.C., for three years and then joined the International Affairs division of the U.S. Treasury Department in 1988.

He went on to serve as an attaché at the US Embassy in Tokyo. He was deputy assistant secretary for international monetary and financial policy (1995–1996), senior deputy assistant secretary for international affairs (1996-1997), assistant secretary for international affairs (1997–1998).<5>

He was Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs (1998–2001) under Treasury Secretaries Robert Rubin and Lawrence Summers.<5> Summers was his mentor,<10><11> but other sources call him a Rubin protégé.<11><12><13>



In 2002 he left the Treasury to join the Council on Foreign Relations as a Senior Fellow in the International Economics department.<14> He was director of the Policy Development and Review Department (2001-2003) at the International Monetary Fund.<5>


In October 2003, he was named president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.<15> His salary in 2007 was $398,200.<16> Once at the New York Fed, he became Vice Chairman of the Federal Open Market Committee component. In 2006, he also became a member of the Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.<17>


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Timmy's dad :


Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s,

Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by

S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro,

President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once



Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as a vice president of Ford Motor Company.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


now this should alarm every true democrat on these boards!!!!!!!


and From an April post of mine here at DU: and please, don't believe me ...click the link..it was in the CFR publication!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Remarks by National Security Adviser Jones at 45th Munich Conference on Security Policy

Published February 8, 2009




Speaker: James L. Jones


U.S. National Security Adviser Jones ( edit to add: new advisor hired by Obama!!!!) gave these remarks at the 45th Munich Conference on Security Policy at the Hotel Bayerischer Hof on

February 8, 2009.





"Thank you for that wonderful tribute to Henry Kissinger yesterday. Congratulations. As the most recent National Security Advisor of the United States, I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger, filtered down through General Brent Scowcroft and Sandy Berger, who is also here. We have a chain of command in the National Security Council that exists today.




Source: http://www.cfr.org/publication/18515/remar ... ...

[Greyhound]

130. It's not the lack of accomplishment, it is the refusal to try.

To try and fail is understandable and forgivable (and would probably lead to even greater majorities), to remove any real solutions from even being discussed plays right into the hands of the parasites.

[indepat]

115. Things just keep getting curiouser and curiouser by the day, but the curiouser things get, the

clearer the mosaic being weaved becomes and: it ain't pretty seeing how we is so fucked as a nation and people. :patriot:

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

119. A GIANT BIG ..K&R!! thank you ..so well said! and should be repeated until more people wake up! eom

[truth2power]

120. Excellent post. I might add that, early-on in the Obama admin...

there were attempts to minimize concerns by saying, "He's only been in office for 6 months....9 months.....12 months...Be patient".

As time goes on, and the end of his first term approaches, that argument loses its utility, so it's now morphed into something like, "Why are you just now getting upset?" Heads they win, tails you lose.

[Individualist]

124. K&R

[Whisp]

125. unrec'ing ball applied.

[fascisthunter]

128. Indeed... Kick!

[caseymoz]

134. K&R: Harvard Law School rarely graduates liberal-progressives.

Just like HARVARD BUSINESS SCHOOL graduates people like: George W. Bush.

Those few that do graduate from it don't generally go to work for that conservative hotbed, the University of Chicago School of Law.

Sadly, I think he was marginally better than any alternatives that we had, possibly excepting Hillary, and I have faced the fact that the wealthy corporatists and shadow government insiders have rigged the presidential candidate selection system so that an "error" like Roosevelt never happens again. Obama's FISA vote shows me, retroactively, that he knows that there are powers in the government and among corporations that he serves. That vote was meant to show them that he would willingly serve them. It can't be explained by any principle.

I guess I just hoped he would stab them in the back.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

135. The punchline is the same as the joke: "Not as bad".

But, it's still popular with woodchucks.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grinchie]

140. Punchline? How about the reappointment of Michael Taylor to the USDA?

Taylor has long been hostile to food safety. While working as a lobbyist, Taylor authored more than a dozen articles critical of the Delaney clause, a 1958 federal law prohibiting the introduction of known carcinogens into processed foods, which had long been opposed by Monsanto and other chemical and pesticide companies. This episode is regarded as one of the first modern food scares based on a chemical additive. When Taylor rejoined the federal government, he continued advocating that Delaney should be overturned. This was finally done when President Clinton signed the so-called Food Quality Protection Act on the eve of the 1996 elections.

Taylor is widely credited with ushering recombinant bovine growth hormone (rBGH) through the FDA regulatory process and into the milk supply — unlabeled. Monsanto developed a rBGH, brand-named Posilac, in 1994. A Government Accounting Office investigated whether Taylor had a conflict of interest and or had engaged in ethical misconduct in the approval of rBGH. The report’s conclusion that there was no wrongdoing conflicted with the 30 pages of evidence that Vermont Congressman Bernie Sanders described as proof that “the FDA allowed corporate influence to run rampant in its approval” of the synthesized hormone.

Taylor is also responsible for the FDA’s decision to treat genetically modified foods as “substantially equivalent” to natural foods and therefore not require any safety studies — and they rest unlabeled. His regulatory concept of “substantial equivalence” allowed the FDA to ignore evidence that genetically engineered foods are in fact very different from natural foods and pose specific health risks. While simultaneously genetically engineered crops are absolutely "novel", never existed before, not like nature, not natural - and for that subject to patenting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_R._Taylor

Or how about Clearcutting in the Tsongas National Wilderness?

At 17 million acres (69,000 km²), the Tongass National Forest (pronounced /ˈtɒŋɡəs/, officially the Tongass/Stikine National Forest<2>) in southeastern Alaska is the largest national forest in the United States. Most of its area is part of the temperate rain forest WWF ecoregion, itself part of the larger Pacific temperate rain forest WWF ecoregion, and is remote enough to be home to many species of endangered and rare flora and fauna. Tongass encompasses islands of the Alexander Archipelago, fjords, glaciers, and peaks of the Coast Mountains. An international border with Canada (British Columbia) runs along the crest of the Boundary Ranges of the Coast Mountains (see also: Alaska boundary dispute). The forest is administered from Forest Service offices in Ketchikan. There are local ranger district offices located in Craig, Hoonah, Juneau, Petersburg, Sitka, Thorne Bay, Wrangell, and Yakutat.<3>

In July 2009, the Obama Administration approved clearcut logging on 381 acres in the remaining old growth forests of the Tongass.<4>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongass_National_Forest

It only took 5 months for this Administration to become a lame duck.

Or how about staging Military Exercises during one of the most volatile disputes between North and South Korea, while unconditionally supporting the hard right regime of South Korean Government that is failing economically because we are too broke to buy all the crap the South Korean manufacturing base makes for us.

Or how about the millions of homes sitting empty, rotting in the elements, being infested by mold or looted by vandals or squatters?

Or how about the thousands of State and County workers that have been laid off or furloughed because the free money tap has dried up?

Those are all really good punchlines for the Satanic cult of Corporatocracy and their DLC Lapdogs that suckle on its teat.

[glitch]

142. "Satanic cult of Corporatocracy and their DLC Lapdogs that suckle on its teat."

Perfect! Some brilliant cartoonish should draw Satan with the GOP suckling on its right teat and the DLC suckling on its left.

edit: or an artist, SwampRat could do it!

[Grinchie]

154. Forgive my rhetorical flourish, but it seems appropriate to me. N/T

[glitch]

157. As a fan of rhetorical flourish, nothing to forgive. :) nt

[snake in the grass]

263. Just one thing:

I wish I could rec your post.

[Capitalocracy]

152. You know, maybe he IS a "dolt".

Maybe he's a decent speaker and a hard-working student but doesn't really know shit about politics. That's a possibility I think we're not taking into account. Maybe Tim Geithner really does whisper things in his ear at night and make him do bad stuff.

Not saying that's the case, just offering another idea.

K&R

[Divine Discontent]

165. highly possible, because for all of his brilliance with things we can physically see with the human

eye and ear, I am very unimpressed with the choices he's made as a whole. The OP has many of them stated, but there's more. I am left unimpressed with his desire to set things right that are ongoing. I understand, fully, that it's not easy to rock the boat, and that is an understatement, but he was elected to make things right, I believe. Perhaps they are just getting the economy settled for a few years, then they'll go after the asshats who destroyed our country.

[Capitalocracy]

168. If I were afraid to rock the boat I would not run for president.

And if my idea of the presidency were just to sit in the Oval Office and administer the country as it was left to you by the last administration, I wouldn't run on "hope" and "change".

Edit to add:

"If you elect me as your President, I promise not to fuck things up any more than they already are! I promise to fight hard to maintain the status quo for you and your family!"

[ProSense]

158. " And what’s with the ‘Abstinence Only’ funding and teaching? "

Obama Defunds Abstinence-Only Programs – Advances Other Civil Liberties

The fall of abstinence-only

It's simply impossible to counter every non-fact in some of these discussions.

[snake in the grass]

220. I recall at the beginning of the term...

...reading that funds were being alloted to the nonsensical 'abstinence only' programmes. That may very well no longer be the case and so be it. It wasn't the subject of my OP, though, and I'd really like your ideas on that one.

Do you believe it is acceptable in a nation of laws, to allow war criminals to roam free without as much as peeking under a rock?

Simple question. Address it.

During the Bush years, we demanded accountability. Remember where the buck stops? Let me give you the answer so you don't have to overexert yourself. It doesn't stop with the Department of Justice. It doesn't stop with the Undersecretary of Thumb-up-the-Ass. No. It stops with the President of the United States, who just happens to be Obama at the moment.

Hence...

[Poll_Blind]

160. I had time to just pop in and read two or three posts. Your op was one of them.

Probably the most useful bit of commentary I'd find all day here or anywhere.

I agree with you.

It terrifies me. I have three children. I am beside myself that these are the times I'm living in and the times my children live in will almost certainly be more draconian.

I am just in that little place they say you go when you're being assaulted, when nothing is there to save or protect you. Lala land. But I can't quite shut the door because I can't pull my entire family into that opiated, suppressed reality.

I cannot I believe I'm saying this but this is getting on to be the last straw before I give up hope on the Democratic as a party entirely. It's unreal to think that but that's the position I've been put in as a voter. Bush raped the shit out of us and...Well, I consider myself a reasonably articulate guy and I still don't quite know how to succinctly put into words what Obama has done. It's not supposed to be like this. I certainly don't think Clinton would have done any better. Different, but not better.

The powers that be will never let a man or woman of change close to the presidency. I should have that tattooed on my fucking arm so I never forget it.

The 2008 presidential election was a shell game none of us were going to win.

Now that corporations can dump money into elections legally, this bullshit will be looked back on as the halcyon days we yearn for in the future.

PB

OnEdit: K&R, of course

[ProSense]

166. "The powers that be will never let a man or woman of change close to the presidency.

I should have that tattooed on my fucking arm so I never forget it.

The 2008 presidential election was a shell game none of us were going to win."

Seriously, people really need to get over the out of the election. It's resulting in the hyperbole being ratchetted up.

[liberation]

164. Oh, for Christ sake's at least be honest:

You never truly really did love him! :-(


Doubters will be ran by the wheel of the revolution as the true believers ascend to the heaven on earth that bipartisanship and the center-right will surely bring!

[Jakes Progress]

173. For truth's sake, why don't you be honest.

You haven't even read the post your are inarticulately protesting. He said at the outset that he didn't. He was honest. Try it sometime.

(Of course, my post could be misplaced if you really meant their to be a sarcasm thingie in there. If so, I apologize, but you do not sound too far off some here.)

[snake in the grass]

228. I'm sure it was sarcasm.

I don't like using that icon either. Irony should be able to stand on its own without the need of a crutch.

[Jakes Progress]

237. Not on DU.

Too many really believe those lines. I've been told I was a right-wing hippie for not believing in the purity of our current adm. (I know. I right-wing hippie?)

[snake in the grass]

267. Well, then, heaven help us.

[Jakes Progress]

274. Yep.

That's why it makes sense to be at least semi-religious. You can hope for heaven's help and you can believe that there is a hell for people like cheney and bush.

[pleah]

177. K&R

[valerief]

179. I wanted Kucinich, knowing full well it would never happen.

The game is rigged anyway.

[suzie]

200. Yeah, that's why the most hateful, immature man in American politics who

never was even interested in winning, didn't get the nomination.

[valerief]

201. Whozzat? nt

[spoony]

250. Why do you bash Democrats? Hater.

lol

[suzie]

260. Bashing Democrats? I thought that was Kucinich's job. He did Boehner's job for him,

undermining support for the final health care bill as much as possible all along, before deciding that political martyrdom was fine, but that political death part wasn't.

But HATER, I'll leave that to DK, who spent his time in 2004 bashing Democratic candidates as much as possible.

And then told us that he'd run for the Presidency with an old KKKer and confirmed racist.

You won't ever convince this old Southerner that walking hand in hand with HATERS is a good thing.

DK spent 30 years consorting with the woman-haters and miraculously gave that up--only to embrace the race-haters.

[bobburgster]

180. Keep whining.......

talk to me again after you help elect Palin.

[Dinger]

217. Lame (nt)

[snake in the grass]

223. That you would attribute so much power to me that...

...what I write will help get Palin elected is flattering. Really, it is, but not very realistic. I think that our fine Democratic representatives, including the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., are doing just great in that regard.

If the people have a choice between Republican and Republican-light, they will go with the Republicans.

Think about it.

[MissDeeds]

226. Hasn't this pathetic meme been played to death?

The OP expressed true concerns and this is what you come up with? The damn pony and Palin crap isn't working.

[Name removed]

251. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bobburgster]

254. Granted, not as articulate as you.

[bobburgster]

259. Granted, I understand how ludicrous my Palin reference is, but

with the limited time I can spend on DU, sometimes I just read and react. I believe snake in the grass' response to my Palinism is correct. The only thing he left out is the negative impact all this anti-Obama rhetoric has on democrat's motivation to vote....making us complicit in first losing Congress, and then the presidency.

[snake in the grass]

266. bobburgster,

thank you for a response I can sincerely address without spewing sarcasm. I really do understand your misgivings about the possible effects on Democrat's motivation to vote (at least the ones who read it - not quite that powerful...yet). I wrestle with myself on that issue, which bases my decision to go Dem a strategic one and not one of conviction. This country seriously needs a paradigm shift and that requires rocking the boat, as someone wrote above. I think we do more damage to ourselves when we sweep this under the rug and then pretend to not smell the rot, so I'm joining those rocking. It could also happen that enough people are motivated to start pressuring. We may not see results for thirty years, but somehow the ball needs to be pushed - and the sooner the better.

[bobburgster]

279. I understand what you are saying,

and have many of the same misgivings. I do believe Obama is trying to bring about change that helps people like you and I. One of my big concerns is the input/direction he is receiving from his assembled team. A large majority of them come from the pro-business conservative democrat/moderate republican tree. I believe the president has given them to much power, and leeway, in developing, as well as negotiating his legislation. I'm hopeful that his reliance on them has been part of his presidential learning curve leaving me optimistic he will begin to flex his own intellect and beliefs more consistently.
I tend to agree with your paradigm shift comment, though it puts me in the proverbial rock and a hard place situation. How do you rock the boat while maintaining democratic control? I do not think I could live through another 8 years plus of republican rule on the hope that a message was received by our democratic politicians that the status quo is unacceptable.
Oh, thanks for the non-sarcasm response. :-)

[Steely_Dan]

183. "Let the truth be told...

...though the heavens fall."

[dionysus]

188. and the Oscar for melodrama goes to...

[Kermitt Gribble]

197. K&R

I feel exactly the same... The HCR scam was my last straw.

[laughingliberal]

203. K & R nt

[Zhade]

209. K/R

NT!

[hedgehog]

211. Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words; so I'll give you two pictures:

[bobburgster]

253. two pictures, two thousand words...very good

:fistbump:

[buff2]

213. This is the reason I have stayed away so long

So.....I come back and this is what I read first thing.I had to check to see if I was on free republic by mistake. Oh well...back to facebook and FarmVille. :grr:

[snake in the grass]

225. Comparing a legitimate grievance...

...concerning the non-pursuit of war criminals with the homunculi at FreeRepublic, whose biggest worry is that "one of them" is in the White House is so incredibly weak and disingenuous. And laughable!

Thank you for playing and a big thanks for the kick.

[spoony]

252. Freepers want Obama to be more liberal?

Yeah, you'd best get back to farmville. Your apple trees won't know how dumb you sound.

[geek tragedy]

264. The Obama-hating left purports to care about preventing the Republicans

return to power, but then do everything they can to undermine the people trying to prevent that.

Very curious.

[Capitalocracy]

284. You mean prosecuting war crimes will make Dems lose elections?

Why? Whose votes will they lose? Yours?

[Vidar]

219. K&R.

[WillyT]

224. K & R !!!

:kick:

:evilfrown:

[WinkyDink]

227. President Jeb Bush.

[TheWatcher]

238. Well, at least some of you have your scapegoats and fallback Paradigms at the ready.

I like the Palin meme better, myself. More cartoonish, DEFINITELY a better "fear" factor.

I must protest though that o'l Mittens doesn't seem to get any love anymore. C'Mon he's at LEAST as scary a meme as Jeb and Caribou.

Nobody respects the Classics anymore.

:rofl:

[SaveOurDemocracy]

231. K&R n/t

[meow mix]

233. oops to late to +rec

good post

[varelse]

241. He might be capable of 3-D chess

but it makes very little difference to us pawns because no matter what game he's playing... we're the losers.

[Lucian]

256. Can't R anymore, but gladly K it for you!

[Joe Fields]

258. What did you expect? He said all along that he wasn't interested

in pursuing the past, which meant that, if you were paying attention, that nothing, NOTHING was going to be done to any member of the Bush administration.

[Rex]

273. I knew he was a corporate suit dressed like a senator

when I voted for him, but what else was there to do? Not vote!? NO SIR, never gonna happen...I'll vote for a dirty pile of laundry before I don't vote or vote for a Repuke! So I, like so many people here, voted for Obama hoping he would be the genuine article. Was he? Not even close, but neither was Bill and Hill. We will NEVER have a 'president of the people' ever again! The corporations...that RULE OVER US, people know this now it is obvious, would NEVER EVER allow it. And as we all know, corporations own America not The People.

My country, my ass! It looks like my ass belongs to BP...thanks crappy American 'free enterprise' bullshit scam garbage. We've all been scammed and better get used to the fleecing of Ameirca...the uber-rich are just getting warmed up.

[HEyHEY]

288. I blame the people

Obama's message was "Yes WE can" not "Yes I can" and as soon as he was elected everyone seemed to go, "Okay, fix it." Without thought about what they needed to do to help.

[amborin]

291. reading this too late to recommend, alas; thanks for posting!