Circumcision could halt 4M African HIV cases

[Forkboy]

VIENNA - More than 4 million new HIV infections could be prevented in eastern and southern Africa by 2025 if male circumcision rates were increased to 80 percent, researchers said on Tuesday.

Expanding circumcision services to 80 percent of adult and newborn males in the region would also save $20.2 billion in HIV-related health costs between 2009 and 2025, they said.

“With global resources spread thin, we must focus on expanding proven and cost-effective methods like male circumcision to prevent HIV transmission,” Krishna Jafa, an HIV expert at health aid group Population Services International (PSI), said at an AIDS conference in Vienna.

Jafa’s comments echoed former U.S. President Bill Clinton and philanthropist Bill Gates, who both used speeches to the conference to call for rapid scale-up of male circumcision as a cost-effective way to prevent the spread of HIV.

Sub-Saharan Africa carries the greatest burden of the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) that causes AIDS, accounting for 67 percent of the 33.4 million people living with the virus worldwide. An estimated 1.9 million people were newly infected with HIV in the region in 2008.

Research cited by the World Health Organisation has shown that male circumcision can reduce a man’s risk of getting HIV by up to 60 percent.

http://www.torontosun.com/life/healthandfitness/2010/07/20/14769891.html

Now play nice, people. :)

[Lucian]

1. So could using a condom.

[WildEyedLiberal]

10. So could not having multiple unprotected partners

I mean, really folks - unprotected sex increases your risk for any STD. Why are we focusing on circumcision instead of teaching people not to have randomly indiscriminate sex?

[Lucian]

18. Well, yeah...

but people have sex. There's no way to stop that. So if you're going to have sex, be smart about it and use protection.

[tammywammy]

2. ...

:popcorn:

[madinmaryland]

3. So could Belicheat. Video taping everyone having sex, without the loss of

any foreskin!

:yoiks:

Edit to add: recommended!

[Forkboy]

8. 15 yards....Lopping off!

:D

[madinmaryland]

9. To the penalty box, bub. For slashing!

:yoiks:

[Forkboy]

14. *SNARF*

:rofl:

[aquart]

4. LOL! Now you've done it.

You can't part a DUer from his teeny tiny turtleneck.

[asdjrocky]

5. Oh no you didn't. nt

[Starry Messenger]

6. Bill Gates AND Circumcision.

This could go on into the weekend. :popcorn:

[ZombieHorde]

7. I love circumcision threads!

I would like to point out the fact there are two different male circumcision situations discussed on DU.

One situation involves WHO's recommendation for men in Africa, and perhaps other third world areas, to get circumcised for the purpose of preventing HIV.

The other situation involves routine infant circumcision in industrialized countries. Most western medical communities advise against routine infant circumcision.

In summery: third world areas with very little education opportunities or condom access = adult male circumcision recommended; first world areas with many education opportunities and condom access = routine infant circumcision not recommended.

Different suggestions for different people in different situations.

[depakid]

11. There's no clinical evidence to suggest a difference in the protective effect in the two situations

That's the bottom line.

[ZombieHorde]

17. You can declare anything you want to be the bottom line, but

the major medical communities in the US, Canada, Australia, and the UK recommend against routine infant circumcision.

[depakid]

26. Medical organizations are conservative by nature- and take a lot of time before changing

official positions (especially when it involves implicit recognition of past error).

The evidence is what it is- and over time, organizations will respond to it.

[Touchdown]

52. American Medical societies are NEVER conservative where circumcision is concerned.

It's cut first, justify later. Always has been since Dr. Sayer "proved" that it cures spinal paralysis in the 1800s.

[Crunchy Frog]

19. Just the fact that the heavily circumcised U.S. population

has a higher rate of HIV infection than the almost completely intact European populations.

[depakid]

24. I'm talking about hard clinical evidence- not observations of populations subject a host of factors

[Crunchy Frog]

30. I've not seen any clinical evidence at all from a 1st world context.

[depakid]

38. Do you know what clinical evidence is?

There's nothing "different" in the morphologies pathways of infection via sexual intercourse among the two populations.

Translation: the to sets of dicks and bodies (and how they work) are essentially the same.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Epidemiologically very different populations with very different characteristics.

And the dicks and the sex are not necessarily the same. The access to hygeinic facilities and modern medicine make a difference, as do cultural practices like "dry sex". Why is it that HIV is predominantly spread heterosexually in Africa and homosexually in the 1st world?

I would love to see some clinical studies done in a 1st world setting.

[depakid]

44. There's also illicit IV drug use clouding the equation

Another difficulty (aside from the obvious cultural and emotional difficulties in America or Europe is the fact that the protective effect has been shown to be so strong that it's unethical not to treat the control group.

[Crunchy Frog]

49. Yes. They even "treated" a control group in a study

that looked at male to female transmission and found a 50% higher rate of transmission with the cut group. I think there are agendas going on here that go beyond pure scientific inquiry.

[Radical Activist]

36. As if European nations haven't done enough harm to Africa

now they want to rob the continent of their foreskins while keeping their own children naturally in tact. Colonialist degradation has reached new lows!

[ZombieHorde]

50. Funny. nt

[undeterred]

12. Time to circumcise the boys instead of the girls.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. Except that female circumcision appears to have a similar protective effect.

[depakid]

25. Citation on that anywhere?

[Crunchy Frog]

29. .

http://www.ias-2005.org/planner/Abstracts.aspx?AID=3138

I think there should be more controlled studies in this area. It could prove potentially very fruitful.

[depakid]

33. Bad data (self reporting of clinical conditions) in that presentation

See this published article:

Self-reported and observed female genital cutting in rural Tanzania: associated demographic factors, HIV and sexually transmitted infections.

OBJECTIVES: To determine (i) the prevalence and type of female genital cutting (FGC) in a rural multi-ethnic village in Tanzania, (ii) its associated demographic factors, (iii) its possible associations with HIV, sexually transmitted infections (STIs) and infertility and (iv) to assess the consistency between self-reported and clinically observed FGC.

METHOD: The study was part of a larger community-based, cross-sectional survey with an eligible female population of 1993. All were human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-tested and asked whether they were circumcised (n = 1678; 84.2%). Participants aged 15-44 years were interviewed (n = 636; 79.7%), and 399 (50.0%) were gynaecologically examined to screen for STIs and determine the FGC status.

RESULTS: At a mean age of 9.6 years, 45.2% reported being circumcised. In the age-group 15-44 years, 65.5% reported being cut, while FGC was observed in 72.5% and categorized as clitoridectomy or excision. The strongest predictors of FGC were ethnicity and religion, i.e. being a Protestant or a Muslim. FGC was not associated with HIV infection, other STIs or infertility. A positive, non-significant association between FGC and bacterial vaginosis was found with a crude odds ratio of 4.6. There was a significant decline of FGC over the last generation. An inconsistency between self-reported and clinically determined FGC status was observed in more than one-fifth of the women.

CONCLUSION: The data indicate that both women and clinicians might incorrectly report women's circumcision status. This reveals methodological problems in determining women's circumcision status in populations practising the most common type of FGC. The positive association between FGC and bacterial vaginosis warrants further investigation.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15655020

[Crunchy Frog]

42. It looks like a potentially fruitful avenue of inquiry.

They should do some methodologically better studies.

[depakid]

45. Not if you're looking for physiological protective effects

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Not if you've got an agenda to cut one gender and not the other.

Otherwise, I don't see why not.

[depakid]

63. It made sense to give you some benefit of the doubt

and let you have a go like someone from fox "news."

[Touchdown]

59. What do you have against pure science?

And the pursuit of "Hard, factual evidence"?

[Touchdown]

58. What a nasty thing to say.

[Jamastiene]

13. The Clenis, Bill Gates, AND circumcision in the same OP.

It's like Christmas morning.

:popcorn:

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. So would penisectomies

I believe they also prevent a host of other diseases too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I'll play very nice

There are many benefits to an unhooded one... from the POV of the medical provider. As one who had to do a few catherizations, let's just say it is that much easier, and easier to maintain in place and of course that ever important cleanliness.

I am just going. OUCH for adult males, babies don't remember.

That said, there is this thing we used to teach my kids (driving the nuns nuts, but as I reminded the mother superior a few times, this is a medical facility and they are of consenting age. I am not blind) and yes males even though I am very much a female, called condoms. And not one thing will do this completely. Even if we have men going around with nekid wankers, they still need to use those condoms... and there are many cultural reasons why getting men to wear them is worst than prying teeth.

And yes... I was THERE at the beginning of the AIDS epidemic in Mexico. And yes, I had to train medical providers to use gloves and we gave many public health lectures on HOW to wear a condom, in front of rooms full of men (and women).

If any of you ever needs to do this, I recommend a banana as your proxy. They are cheap, they are easy to find, and damn people can eat them at the end of class. Ah the joys of being a paramedic instructor in a developing country. I got to do some crap that no American EMS provider would ever be asked to do.

A few times I have thought, GO BACK and get a Masters in Public Health.

Now if I made anybody blush, so be it. But I do have funny stories from those classes and lectures. What kept us going were the AIDS patients we took care off. And yes, a woman talking to males about this most private of matters is not easy... let alone a twenty something who had to READ on how to do this, and go beg the MPH department to teach me how to teach this ahem, most delicate of matters. At least the boys and men kept the jokes clean.

Oh and to the OP, usually these things get ahem raunchy fast, usually peeps get really nervous and bashful.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. I'm curious about the catheterization difficulty.

Partly because I'm hoping to go to school for my RN, so I expect I will encounter it. I was under the impression that most adult men are retractible enough to expose the urinary meatus. I know it's not always completely clean in there, but it's not in women either. I've also never heard of European medical people complaining; I wonder if it's more of a cultural issue, as in what one is used to and thinks of as "normal"?

[uppityperson]

23. I've never had a problem cathing an uncirc man.

The foreskin retracts, you clean the head, insert cath. Much easier than cathing most women.

[Crunchy Frog]

28. Thank you for the feedback.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Well that is true, women are that much more

difficult, especially in trauma. My lord the pain that at times happens because you have to manipulate legs. (Hip fractures, femur fractures)

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. It can and it is retracted

but at times they are just hard... as in you just fight the tissue a little.

It is not that common, but unhooded wankers are that much easier to get ready for a cath. That said, in Mexico most of our patients never had the tip snipped, so you dealt with it and moved on.

[Forkboy]

34. Nervous and bashful doesn't apply to me when it comes to sexuality.

:)

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I was accused of that by the Mother Superior a few times

and was told why I was going to hell... but hey I am Jewish... so was on my way anyway!!!!

I know those early classes saved a few lives...

And one of my condoms (without any oil on it, the dry cheap kind) served as a flutter valve... not exactly what it was made for.

[Atticus]

21. And circumcision would silence Breitbart as it would amount to slashing his throat. nt

[Hekate]

27. Excellent point!

[Forkboy]

35. For the win!

:rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

39. Female -> Male, Yep.

Like keeping leftover clam chowder on the counter in Tupperware rather than putting it into the dishwasher.

[Forkboy]

46. You could plug that line into any thread and it would work.

:)

[Radical Activist]

40. So when men are convinced that being circumcised will protect them from getting AIDS

I wonder how that will impact their sexual habits. What will that do for solving the AIDS crisis?

[Crunchy Frog]

43. This person thinks so too.

http://www.youtube.com/user/cleansexy?feature=chclk

[Lil Missy]

48. hoo, boy howdy!

:popcorn:

[Touchdown]

51. Bullshit.

... and I'm tired of linking over the past 5 years to prove it.

WEll, ok, maybe one. Since Doctors are supposed to be listened to, except for pot usage, vaccines and public insurance, I'll link to a doctor site.

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/pressrelease07-31-05.html

If Glenn Beck said this actually works, would you believe him? Find out who's behind these African studies, and why they did them.

" Robert Bailey, the scientist who sponsored the study, has been promoting circumcision to prevent HIV transmission since 1989. The world medical community thus far has not accepted his published studies. The present study, which was conducted in South Africa, is his latest effort. In such cases, one must be aware of possible researcher bias."

[Forkboy]

55. "If Glenn Beck said this actually works, would you believe him?"

Yes, I would. Thanks for asking! :crazy:

Seriously though, I just posted the article because I know how fun these threads are on DU. I mean, come on, it had Bill Gates, Bill Clinton and circumcision. I practically had an orgasm when I found this story, and it could only have been better had the Olive Garden been mentioned too.

[Touchdown]

57. OK. Where is Bill Gates' and Clinton's Medical degrees?

Gates has been public enemy #1 to DU teachers for the last week. Now he's a hero?

Olive Garden's breadsticks are not circumcised, but tortelini looks suspicious...

[Forkboy]

60. I will leave you to duke it out with others.

[Touchdown]

62. Godzilla is intact. All Japanese monsters are!

... so there!

[Forkboy]

65. Doesn't matter. Mothra had her tubes tied anyways.

:)

[Jamastiene]

64. I will never look at tortelini the same way again.

:spray:

[Touchdown]

53. Overall, up to age 32 years, the incidence rates for all STIs were not statistically significantly d

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18280846?dopt=Abstract

[Touchdown]

54. Dutch doctors' group calls for circumcision ban

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINTRE64Q52H20100527


(Reuters Life!) - The Royal Dutch Medical Association on Thursday suggested a possible ban on elective circumcisions for young boys, saying they were medically unnecessary and violated children's rights.

The 161-year-old organization, which represents more than 46,000 doctors and students, called the procedure "a violation of the integrity of the body."

The group, known by its Dutch initials KNMG, proposed a dialogue between doctors and religious groups on the issue.

Most non-therapeutic circumcisions in the Netherlands are performed on religious grounds. In the capital of Amsterdam, parents seeking circumcisions for elective reasons are often referred to a small clinic in a heavily Muslim neighborhood.

[Touchdown]

56. Most Malaysians With HIV/AIDS Are Muslims

http://www.poz.com/articles/Malaysian_Muslim_AIDS_1_18548.shtml

Somebody forgot to tell the UN that muslims are already circumcised.

[Touchdown]

61. Get Yer' Foreskins here! Get 'em while they're hot! Foreskins for sale!!!

Oh' yeah! It REALLY AND TRULY is about AIDS prevention.:eyes:

http://www.cosmeticsdesign.com/Formulation-Science/Babies-foreskin-dubbed-as-new-anti-aging-treatment

Babies’ foreskin dubbed as new anti-aging treatment

http://www.mattek.com/pages/in_vitro_toxicology

http://www.acroposthion.com/acroposthion_018.htm

The most disturbing and alarming is in the unethical trafficking of neonate foreskins. Not only do parents of North American baby boys have to pay between $200 to $300 to obstetricians to circumcise their boys that no sooner are the circumcised foreskins cut off that they are sold on to bio-engineering and cosmetics companies by the hospitals. The numbers of dollars involved are bewilderingly staggering, and this financial force is one which is providing the funds to continue the spread of medical propaganda advocating circumcision. The resale value of neonate foreskins is astronomically dizzying in that from one boy’s foreskin can be grown bio-engineered skin in a lab to the size of a football field. That’s 4 acres of new skin or around 200,000 units of manufactured skin, which is enough skin to cover about 250 people and sells at $3,000 a square foot. Considering that there are 1.25 million neonate foreskins circumcised each year in the U.S alone this translates to one of the most lucrative trades, if not THE most lucrative trade in human body parts ever in the history of humanity.

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/01/30/Foreskin/

Foreskin Face Cream



http://www.gettingit.com/article/200

So what does little Johnny get for sacrificing part of his manhood? Simply, pain. Studies of cortisol levels in infants during circumcision suggest that the pain would make adults go comatose. In fact, some infants do slip into comas. The long-term effects are equally impressive. Researchers believe a circumcised adult male loses about 240 feet (73.2m) of nerves and over 1,000 nerve endings. The accepted extrapolation is that the more nerves you have on your dingler, the better intercourse feels.

http://www.graminex.com/clinical_studies/study7.php

Alterations in the Intraprostatic Hormonal Metabolism by the Pollen Extract Cernilton ®

http://www.animalsuffering.com/resources/facts/vivisection.php

Amputate boy's to protect rats.