Of mental illness, culpability, and star stuff: Mel Gibson.

[Treehugger]

Hello everyone! First off, some pertinent background on me, as I have not been on DU since ~11/01. I am a Kucinich liberal whose primary interest is the environment. I am also passionate about civil rights--Native American & African American issues are of particular interest to me. I am a female married to an Asian American. In addition, I wasn't born with the most stable of brains. :banghead:

OK. . .I am bothered that I feel kind of empathetic (yes, empathetic) toward Gibson & wanted to throw my perspective out there for fodder.

We all know that Rule #1 is don't blame the victim. Even if the physical abuse doesn't happen to pan out (which it *likely* will, although some questions are surfacing), he was certainly emotionally abusive in that conversation. However, I feel kind of sad/bad for him. I feel guilty and "wrong" about feeling that way. However, I have experiences that have given me more insight into the brain than I'd prefer to have.

When I was 20 I wound up in a psych ward for 20 days. :shrug: This came out of nowhere--I'd always been a very happy child who was raised in a secure, loving (and liberal) home. I'd just finished my first year of college and had started dating for the first time. I'd never done drugs, etc. However, there I was, in a mental hospital. Some experiences I had: I hallucinated that my hands were burning, that the bed lifted up, and the ceiling opened up into the night. I went flying up to the stars. I remember looking off of the bed and "down" to the earth below. I still wonder if I was physically looking off the side of the bed.

I was also totally delusional and thought people were out to get me. :hide: I was completely paranoid. One day, out of nowhere, I suddenly said "my dad killed my mom". I am terribly close to both parents and can guarantee that there was absolutely no abuse in that home. To this day I wonder where that thought suddenly came from. At the time I got down to 98 pounds, but managed to do a pretty good job of squirming out from under 2 solid adults when I made a (failed) escape attempt. I was eventually diagnosed with bipolar disorder & got it under fairly decent control.

However, when I was 35 I had auditory hallucinations (it sounded as though the Eagles & RATM were literally playing in my head. I called 911.) Turns out that I was born with a blood vessel malformation. I had a 3 cm cavernous hemangioma that had bled on and off over the years. Lo and behold, turns out that it had resulted in seizures for years, particularly when it was bleeding. However, given its location (right temporal lobe, against the amygdala), they manifested themselves as emotional/perceptual problems, as mentioned above. (I had temporal lobe epilepsy with simple, then complex seizures & jaimes vu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporal_lobe_epilepsy). It was removed successfully on 11/12/07 & I noticed the most subtle changes that wouldn't make sense to anyone who hasn't been there.

Maybe I'm making excuses b/c I like a lot of his stuff. However I know that my own mental experiences also weigh in heavily here. <b> I've had this circular argument in my head ever since my cavernous hemangioma was discovered and removed:</b>

1) Do we really have any control over what we do? It sounds so cynical, but I've come to believe that we are only under the illusion that we control our brains. As a huge Sagan fan, I believe that each of us (brains included) are literally the product of atoms of star stuff randomly falling into place. Our fate is literally connected to the stars. However,

2) You have to be culpable in society--hell yeah--absolutely. But. . .

In short, I do feel he is "victim" of the way his brain fell into place--bipolar disorder, alcoholism, and the "fortune" of having been born into the family he was. :nuke: She, in turn, is a victim of his brain. Fortunately for her, she (appears in tabloid fodder, anyway) to have a more grounded brain. That doesn't excuse what he did & he obviously has dickish tendencies, but I kind of feel bad/quite sad for his implosion, explosion, whatever's happened here.

While I am not a violent person, I hesitate to say that I can relate to him to a certain degree. I feel guilty for feeling that way b/c I feel like I'm overlooking what may have been done to her. He needs to be punished if the charges prove true, but still I feel kind of bad for him.

Did I breech etiquette in any way? Too long? Too many smilies? If so, please let me know (gently please--I could crack ;)

[warrior1]

1. Thanks for you story

As far as Mel goes, he seems to have an anger/woman/control issue. Is this caused by a organic reason, who knows. It might be more environmental, as he is use to getting his way. They lady involve also may have issues. I use to like his stuff also, but after what I've heard, I don't think I can watch his stuff.

[lunatica]

2. It seems to me that his behavior manifests very selectively though

In public they're the wonderful couple while in private he knocks her teeth out while screaming the worst possible insults he can think of while she holds their child. Picture that little scenario from the point of view of the child. It seems all anyone has to do is thwart his desires or, as in the case of the cop stopping him while driving drunk, holding him accountable.

Domestic violence is a very serious problem. If his violence and verbal abuse were to be directed towards others also maybe you would have a case in your argument, but since it seems to be directed exclusively at Oksana I think he's just another abusive spouse.

Of course more may come out now that the genie is out of the bottle, but I'll bet if it does, it'll be abuse towards family members only.

[EFerrari]

11. That's pretty classic borderline, not bipolar, behavior.

It is selective. The person sort of finds one individual to project all over and it may be largely invisible in public. :(

[HillbillyBob]

3. You make some good points

I would add has he been diagnosed with any disorder? If he has and is not taking his meds (if they are effective) he would be culpable I would think.
I had an ex bf who was BiPolar/schiz. When he was taking his meds he was alright when he went off his meds it was really hard not to kill him, when he started doing cocaine and alcohol.......
He knew what he was doing going off his meds and I still have scars. I won't go into all of it..then again if gay folks had any marriage rights I could have gotten him into treatment instead of having to defend my self from him for my life a few times. 2 yrs and some months I finally left after another of his surprises..

Perhaps MG will be diagnosed as bipolar or what ever it is possible he is truly ill or he could just be a totally pampered selfish a--hole who is used to those around him pandering and when someone does not kowtow to his highness the movie prince he acts like a child.

[LiberalLoner]

4. Thank you for sharing your story. I have suffered with mental illness too all my life it seems....

I have PTSD from bad stuff that happened to me when I was a child, and also struggle with depression. I'm trying to be a good person and get through life without hurting anyone or getting myself hurt.

I'm glad you are better now and I really appreciate you sharing your story as I know it's hard to do that.

I feel about the same way you do. I feel sorry for him in a way while also condemning him for his abuse and knowing that it is important he be held accountable for it. But at the same time I hope he gets help because he obviously does need help. I think it doesn't feel very good to be out of control like that. Of course it feels even worse, to be the one abused.

I hope he gets help first so that he won't abuse anyone else, and second so that he can be healed in his own mind.

I think he might be in the later stages of alcoholism. I come from an alcoholic family so I've seen stuff like this before. My father only stopped beating women when he got charged with domestic abuse. He only cared when he was made to pay a price for his actions.

Maybe if Mel is charged and pays a price career-wise also, he might get help and change himself for the better, and hopefully get sober because I think his drinking plays a part in all of this. (Although it's not an excuse - he is still responsible for all he has done.)

[H2O Man]

5. Mel Gibson

does not show any signs of having a major mental illness. He definitely has indicators suggesting alcoholism and a raging personality disorder. There are many people with similar features in America; however, when Mel does his thing, it's on the "red carpet." And too many people -- including, quite obviously many here on this forum -- have had the experience of knowing a "Mel," and the pain and suffering that a Mel causes for all of those around them.

There is a huge difference between those who have a major mental illness that they didn't sign up for, and a Mel, who assigns the responsibility for his ill behavior on others, and never himself.

[marylanddem]

6. When I heard his girlfriend mention "your meds"

and heard the heavy breathing & intensity...I immediately thought bi-polar-off-meds -- I have seen this in my own family -- not to excuse his idiot rants or any physical cruelty he has inflicted...but I would bet at some point along the way he has been diagnosed bipolar and goes off and on his medicine...

[Treehugger]

7. He is bipolar

Given my background, I am very, very interested in the brain. "Mel Gibson talks about being diagnosed as bipolar in a new documentary about the NIDA acting class of 1977. . ."I had really good highs, but some very low lows," Gibson said. "I found out recently I'm manic depressive."

Needless to say, this is all conjecture, but my $.02 diagnosis says that he's mucked up from a number of things--

1) he was raised under a fanatical father (have you read up on this guy? Christ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Gibson) who taught his boys a sense of entitlement from day 1;
2) He was evidently too weak (yes, macho guy, *weak*) to really break from that;
3) Celebrity = greater sense of entitlement
3) Severe alcoholism
4) Bipolar disorder (that he quite likely doesn't control very well b/c it is 'unmanly')

(Isn't it always fun to play dimestore psychiatrist? :P )

I'll cap this off by saying that I am so sorry for the pain so many of you have experienced. It goes without saying that domestic violence is a huge and all-too-hidden problem. I am very fortunate that I have never experienced it--I have always been surrounded in gentleness. However, I have a couple of new friends who in the past had to literally flee in the night.

Sure it's tabloid fodder (I confess, I don't usually do so, but I am near-obsessed with keeping track of this one--don't recall doing that to this extent, ever. Well, I do have OCD too, lol). However, I think it is good in that it is bringing domestic violence and uncontrolled mental illness/alcoholism into the arena of the general public. I mean, let's face it, a good deal of us are interested in what particular celebrities do (albeit I could care less about a good chunk of them. I'm 38, so most of "my" celebrities are becoming increasingly irrelevant as these untalented little punks take over).

Yeah, so, given the position I've been in, his mental issues fascinate me. So do train wrecks. :D

[Arugula Latte]

8. Mel Gibson has had a long-standing desire to control women, it seems.

It's a complicated issue in terms of mental illness/meds/culpability, etc. , but I think the controlling thing is at the heart of his personality.

[Treehugger]

9. Agreed.

[Treehugger]

10. Could this actually become a positive

If he is found guilty of having physically abused her, perhaps it will indeed cause him to take a long hard look at himself. Perhaps not. However he, uh, seems a person who, uh, really takes things to heart. (Curious, can you be charged with emotional abuse too? I would think that would be difficult, but can people be?)

If he could become a *heartfelt* spokesman against domestic violence & uncontrolled alcoholism/mental illness, he might just have his best work in front of him. ($ is definitely good, but I'm not just talking @ donating $--I mean among other causes, he actually did donate to a women's shelter in the past. Definitely didn't put his mouth where his money was.) As mentioned, you can't accuse him of not being, uh, passionate, about things. Perhaps I need my rose-colored glasses cleaned, but I could actually picture him doing that. It certainly could have been a desperate attempt to salvage his reputation, but didn't he take some positive steps in interacting with the Jewish community after that f-ing drunk driving incident?

As mentioned, another good thing is that this is bringing the issues of domestic violence/alcoholism/uncontrolled mental illness into public discussion. That is always good.

[Odin2005]

12. He acts just like a Bipolar guy I know.

The person gets VERY violent and verbally agressive when he is manic, so much so that he is one of the few cases were using a taser is called for

[seabeyond]

13. i think some of the movies he did messed with him too. i see bipolar. my brother uses alcohol to

medicate what i am sure is his bipolar that he wont go in for treatment of. and then some of gibsons movies, like braveheart, i think started becoming part of him. i KNOW passion fucked with him