Steve Jobs is probably the only underpaid top paid American CEO in decades

[billbuckhead]

Like him, hate him, be indifferent, it's just a fact. OS X is literally one of the crown jewels of human intelligence. The iPod combined with the iTunes music store is one of the greatest and most profitable consumer friendly environments of modern times. The well laid out transistion to Intel was patiently executed with genius and is only now starting to show results that will soon multiply. Then when Comp USA is cutting back, Apple is launching more of the only successful same brand bricks and mortar computer stores in America. Then there are more good reviews in Consumer Reports than any other computer or even Japanese car. Hows about the recently announced doubling of Mac activity on the internet in the last year? Yes, by many measures, Jobs is actually underpaid.

Home run after home run and the iPhone waits on deck.

It's a sign how disfunctional American capitalism has become that Steve Jobs gets beat up on while nothing has been done about about Enron style banking fraud or Halliburton or adulterated food ............

[REP]

1. Well, Steve Jobs Said Something I Disagreed With Once, Therefore He Is Evil Incarnate

Right?

[onehandle]

2. billbuckhead, you'll love this from 2001...

Hee-larious

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_21/b3733059.htm



He'll be here any second.

[Catshrink]

3. The Costco CEO takes a "modest" salary

of $350,000 a year. Seems like a lot to me, but in comparison to Exxon's CEO and others, it isn't much.

[alittlelark]

9. $350,000 is higher end VP salary here in Silicon Valley.

The $$$ value depends on where you live.

[FreepFryer]

4. 'underpaid'? Disagree. $600 million in stock is a nice way to forget a $1 base salary.

I agree that Apple's contributions are fundamental, the Tao of Mac is a powerful intellectual gift and I am exclusively Mac (always have been since I owned the Mac 512k back in 1984)... but Steve Jobs is 'not' hurting for cash.

[Elwood P Dowd]

5. That was a one-year deal. I think his total compensation over the past 5 years

is about 650 million. Any way you spin it, Jobs has earned that much and more. The company has gone from almost bankrupt to worth more than Dell in 10 years under Jobs. I hate these bastards making these obscene amounts of money, but when a CEO takes an American company and increases it's value by 70 billion dollars in 10 years, then I guess he has earned his money.

[FreepFryer]

8. Can you provide a citation for that valuation? It is higher than what I was aware of.

Long and the short of it is, $650 million dollars is TOO MUCH MONEY FOR ANY ONE PERSON TO POSSESS. I'm really sick of folks praising these CEO's for their acts of philanthropy when the vast majority of their companies' success has been through corporate practices that violate the spirit and law of antitrust so egregiously.

Give me a break. What possible good can concentrating so much wealth in so few people's hands have? It's unprecedented in human history and it's the kind of thing that ends civilizations.

I love Apple, and simultaneously I do not accept that any person with $650 million dollars in income can be considered 'underpaid' when so many are so radically underfed, underhoused, undernourished, undereducated - regardless of the 'value' one assigns their company.

[fujiyama]

33. I agree completely

Seriously, how the hell can anyone with that much money be "underpaid"? Jobs has been compensated just fine over the years. And I'm sure he'll admit that himself.

[Nomad559]

6. Apple's Steve Jobs tops list of highest paid CEOs

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/05/04/apples_steve_jobs_tops_list_of_highest_paid_ceos.html

Despite a $1 yearly salary, Apple chief executive Steve Jobs still managed to top Forbes' list of highest paid CEOs for 2006, raking in more than $646 million through stock-based compensation -- more than twice that of the next highest paid boss.

The financial publication reported that chief executives of America's 500 biggest companies got a collective 38 percent pay raise last year, to $7.5 billion; an average $15.2 million apiece.

Jobs' $646.6 million came in the form of restricted stock options that vested during the year, bringing his 5-year compensation total for work done at Apple to $650.17 million.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcos]

10. One of the crown jewels of human intelligence?

Wow... :wow:

[ToeBot]

14. I've never understood hero worship either. n/t

[ContraBass Black]

16. The work well, but that first line would make a fanboy blush.

EDIT: Upon rereading, I realize that the OP means the opposite of what he said.

Good night.

[hyphenate]

11. I would also include Ben and Jerry

as good solid Democratic capitalists. They're among the few who actually make capitalism a virtue instead of a sin. And I would really love to have a pint of Pistachio, Pistachio right about now.

[Elwood P Dowd]

12. I use to get a freebie every month

after signing up with Working For Change and their long distance service.

[Spinzonner]

13. If he's so great

Why did he have to get back-dated options ?

So poor he needed to guarantee a few extra million ?

He's entitled to play and pay by the rules for everyone else who have to pick their stock purchase and sale days based upon their best guesses ?

LOng and short of it. He cheated the market just like all the other back-dated options grantees.

[gravity]

15. Steve Jobs is Apple

You can hate him all you want, but if it wasn't for him, Apple would have been out of business a long time ago

[Nomad559]

17. If Steve Jobs Is so great

why Is Apples worldwide market share below 4 percent In 2007?

:eyes:

[gravity]

19. Apple's revenues quadrupled in the past 5 years

and they posted a $2 billion profit in 2006, so they are doing something right

[Nomad559]

20. They are doing something right

Outsourcing Is good for Apple ... ALL the hardware Apple sells Is made by cheap slave labor In China.
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/9988

:eyes:

[gravity]

22. Their revenues increased

so regardless of the source of production, they are selling more stuff.

Before you criticize apple for outsourcing production, you might want to look at Dell and Microsoft who are doing the exact same thing.

[Telly Savalas]

47. If it's OK for Apple to use Chinese quasi-slave labor

then why is it bad for Wal Mart to do the same?

[Elwood P Dowd]

23. They have created thousands of jobs within the country

The Apple Stores, the software vendors, the iPod spin-off jobs, and more. Apple wasn't creating much of anything until Jobs came back in 1997.

[Awsi Dooger]

21. Probably for the same reason you have a 4-month old link in your sig

People are stubborn and stupid.

"Why be alone when I can be a clone?"

:rofl:

[Nomad559]

24. You should read

the link In my sig, It's a funny read. :rofl:

"What I'm talking about are the thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of people out there whose relationship with Apple is obsessive and, one would think, unhealthy -- the people who, like crazed sports fans, will fight to the death defending a team that doesn't even know their names.

For years, the standing joke about these folks has been that they've "drunk the Kool-Aid," or been trapped in the black hole of the Steve Jobs Reality Distortion Zone, or that they are the geek version of Scientologists."

:)

[jollyreaper2112]

52. and the difference between now and then...

People are still saying the same things these days, only now they're not joking.

[Awsi Dooger]

18. I always bet on Apple, and I win

I had just started a great job when Jobs went back to Apple. It was a simple handicap to predict he would out think and out execute the swarm of PC clods. I think my first stock purchase was in the $13 range. I must have bought Apple stock 25 times since then and it's always been pure profit. Many splits and only occasional lulls. Last I checked it was over $100. You don't even have to follow it closely, just wait for the next great product and the ensuing profit.

[alfredo]

25. Here is a post about the Apple Design team.

"Jobs is a dictator, but with good taste"

This is a long but interesting article on Apple and Steve Jobs. It gives insight into why they keep coming out with innovative designs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=233&topic_id=4604&mesg_id=4604

[Nomad559]

26. This article will give you

some Insight on what some Apple employees had to say about Apple.

Employees offer mixed reactions to Apple corporate life
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=974

"There is a definite lack of emphasis on customers," said the employee, who holds a senior management position. The employee wrote that there is "a significant fear factor perpetuated of the CEO" by "empire building dinosaurs who operate in antiquated modes and only promote their favorites." The same employee said it's a company policy "not to take notes in meetings," which can make it "quite daunting" to try to operate under such "impossible circumstances."

Meanwhile, a product manager stationed at Apple's home-base in Cupertino sums up Apple as the average conservative company, which works its employees "to the bone" without enough compensation. "When I started it felt like Apple knew my name and what I did," the employee wrote, "but now am nothing more than employee XXX."

:)

[Elwood P Dowd]

27. Nomad, your hate for Apple and DU Apple users has turned into an obsession

You need to move on.

[alfredo]

28. We all know that Steve is a task master, and a

"dictator with taste", but the proof is in the pudding. He puts out beautifully designed hardware.

[Elwood P Dowd]

29. That he does.

I'm no computer geek, but every single Apple I have ever purchased is still working. Every single one, since the late 1990s when I discovered Apple, has worked without a major crash or compromised by some virus. That includes a Performa, two blueberry iMacs, a Mac Mini, and a G4 iBook. That goes from OS 7.5 to OS 8.1 to OS 8.6 to OS 9.1 to OS X Tiger 10.4.9. Not only are they beautifully designed, they simply work, and they're easy to maintain and keep working for years.

[alfredo]

30. He is one of the few CEO's that is earning his money.

You know that he is also the single largest stock holder at Disney now. He is now one of the most powerful persons in Hollywood. He's reworked the music industry and is working on changing the movie industry. Look for him to alter forever how we watch TV.

American industry needed someone to kick them in the ass. I hope they are paying attention to what he is doing and how he does it. That article shows what happens when you put you money and your ass on the line.

[Deja Q]

37. See post 43. No, he isn't.

[Nomad559]

34. And yet again I ask

How Is posting "Factual Information" about Apple and Steve Jobs Hating?

I don't hate Steve Jobs, but as I stated before, I do think he's an arrogant ASS. It Is "Your hate" for Microsoft that drives you to try to suppress the opinion of others here on DU. You and I are posting on Democratic Underground, a "Liberal Forum", I am entitled to my opinion, If you don't like It, that's your problem.

When I first came to DU about 3 years ago, I thought that the Apple cult members here were some of the most annoying kids I have ever encountered, "Smug, Arrogant, Snobbish". Imagine my surprise when I found out that all of you were adults, In fact most of you Apple cult members are In your 30's and 40's.

Damn, you people need to get a life.

:eyes:

[jmatthan]

35. I am in my 60s!

eom

[Deja Q]

38. Exactly.

Microsoft has its problems (their R&D and QC depts have gone to shite thanks to their offshoring; I've been working with Vista and there's a lot of intricate little details that are lacking in Vista. For 5 years' worth of effort, they need to hire some people who care. And I bet most of those remaining who do care, live in America.)

But I digress. The truth is in the middle, and for all the Apple worshippers out there, I feel it is legitimate to remind folks Apple's actions are less than noble.

I too need to get a life, but you will see me give credit where it is due, and attack where it is due. No platform is immune. To my cynicism or to malware makers, of which Linux and Mac users are still in Polyanna-land about, claiming they are safe. (uh, no. Malware may not need to spread to every node to wreak havoc, and human nature doesn't change the instant you move to another platform...)

At least you didn't get me started on thin client 'technology'. (More linux leechers there too...)

[Dorian Gray]

42. Apple cult members?

What the heck is that? I haven't used any Apple computer products (though I do have an IPOD right now and use ITunes), but I don't see where anybody in this thread seems obsessive about anything, until this one post by you. What the heck? So what if people like Mac computers? What do you care? PCs still have like 90+% of the market.

[Nomad559]

43. The Apple Cult Members

here on DU have a long history of having a temper tantrum every time someone like me posts anything negative about Apple.

But yet they think It's fine for them to post anything negative about Windows.

:eyes:

Rush Limbaugh - Mac OS X Tiger Rocks

[Dorian Gray]

51. Well...

it's fine for anybody to post anything negative about either windows or Apple. Who cares?

[Nomad559]

53. That's true

It should be fine for "anybody" to post anything negative about Apple or Windows ... but then why Is It that these Apple cult members go crazy every time someone posts something negative about Apple?

I will tell you why, because these people have no respect for the opinion of others here on DU.

The thing that really annoys me about these people, Is that they are upset over my posting of "Factual Information" about Apple and Steve Jobs ... How very liberal of them.

Why do they hate the truth?

:eyes:

[Dorian Gray]

55. It's a freaking computer.

If they argue with you and decide that your facts don't mean anything to them, then who cares? You are talking about computer operating systems, for Christ's sake, not poverty, healthcare, abortion, the war, or something that could really affect our lives. OS vs. Window........ How different are they, truly? We can all check our email. We can all surf the web. We can all watch videos. We can all download ITunes. Life goes on. Nobody is a "cult member" just because they prefer a different computer.

Okay.... and you quoted "factual information" as though it wasn't truly factual. So... can you blame people for arguing with you? :)

[RandomKoolzip]

56. All the above posts: Dumbest. Flamewar. Ever.

[jmatthan]

31. I am a strong critic of Steve Jobs

I am total Mac (no Microsoft product on any of my computers) person right from 1984 when I started with an Apple IIC - still working here in my cellar! In 1992 I administered an entire hitech microelectronics laboratory which was running top scientific software on all versions of Mac even using a Mac 512 to control a Xray analysis equipment!

But I found Steve Jobs to be disingenuous on many fronts and my personal feeling is that even without Steve, the Mac Community, which is such a wonderful band of people, would have driven Mac to be what it is today. Most of the great software which runs in the Mac started in this developer community on all sorts of Macs - and it is this which has kept the Mac as the greatest computer for as long as I can remember.

In my humble opinion, Windows is at least a year being Apple in every sphere that matters TO ME! And in the subject of Security it is a light year behind.

Apple appreciated what is happening in the computer sphere a long time ago, going back to the Network Computer concept of Ellison of almost a decade and a half ago. Google and Yahoo have done wonders to that end and that is why Microsoft is trying to buy Yahoo.

I wrote to Yahoo last week that I would be closing all my Yahoo links if they give over to Microsoft as I have had no sleepless nights in the last 23 years by being Microsoft-free.

I am a total computer idiot but with my Mac I get MY work done. That is what computing should be.

Steve Jobs's salary is of least concern to me - all I want is the solid range of Mac products to continue.

[fujiyama]

32. LOL

Steve Jobs has an eye for well designed products. Good for him. And he has made plenty over the years.

He's not the paragon of human virtue and goodness.

Seriously, the iPod is a slick looking consumer electronics device, and Apple products are pretty.

But crown jewels of human intelligence? LOL

[Deja Q]

39. Didn't the Nano have a little problem with screens being easily scratched?

Some people said the same thing for their LCD monitors... one I nearly bought until I dug into some details...

Google it. They look pretty, but I'd argue "well designed".

Mind you, those easily scratched units started a new line of "scratch remover" products - also overpriced when they're the same sorts of good that can be bought for far less under the brand name "Brasso" and probably "Turtle Wax" too...

Best of all, acrylic plastic clouds up and discolors over time. All plastics tend to discolor, but that's also why you'll never see an acrylic aquarium in my home either... :D

[Deja Q]

36. OS X is little more than http://www.openbsd.org!

If you start to think, you'll see he's taking you for a ride.

He used to harp on how great Motorola processors were until the very day Intel "Macs" showed up. Then, magically, he couldn't stop saying how great Intel was. (Note: AMD processors do more calculations per clock cycle than Intel's and are less expensive...)

I noted when they ditched SCSI for IDE; at a time when IDE wasn't as good. Prices didn't drop.

Maybe you can tell me why Apple decided to sell the Lisa (aka the original Mac) For $10,000 or why the first Mac, a year later, didn't include a keyboard - a $200 OPTIONAL component.

Why does Steve Jobs harp on teachers these days? Simple, nobody's spending for Macs when it's just a PC with an extra chip that says "It's okay to load OS X on me". Until people download the piece of kit that allows OS X to be installed on any old PC. If Compaq got away with cloning the PC BIOS, there's no way in hell Apple should win any hackintosh lawsuit allowing "their" OS X (http://www.openbsd.org) to be used on every other PC. I wanna know how all those open source developers, who volunteer their efforts, feel for big companies hijacking and selling THEIR work for inflated prices? Well?

CompUSA is dying because of internet-based stores and, yeah, they overcharged for some products too - and for once I'm not talking Apple products. They overcharged on a few things...

Also, why is iTunes raising the cost of each song? $0.99 is more than plenty for a 128kbps file (try 256kbps and I'll shut up on this issue. 128kbps apple format isn't terribly bad, but it's not terribly good either.)

Indeed, Apple sold the first iMacs based on the color of the case. Talk about shallow; in 1987 sitcoms were showing people to be imbeciles when the plot where the family wants to get a home computer, the moron asks "That's cool! What color shall we get?" becomes normal.

Forget the TV ads too. They claim it's easy to hook up printers and cameras and stuff - want me to find some forums where Mac users whine and complain how their Epson Stylus Photo 2200 printer, with the Mac drivers, isn't working for some of the features? (Then ask Apple, why it tries to sell their big LCD monitors to PC users - and not bothering putting in ANY drivers of ANY sort. Rendering all those hundreds or thousands of dollars WORTHLESS. Other companies put out basic functionality drivers for Mac users; why can't Apple be bothered? )

And that's Apple in a nutshell. No different from other businesses. And Jobs is a hack.

http://www.badapple.biz - they concentrate on "iWaste" - Apple's appalling record on environmental issues; consumers did far more than Apple's board members, it seems.

Sorry, but Apple is too overrated. They USED to be good, I'll grant you that. These days they're just petty. It's no longer 1994.

[billbuckhead]

40. Overated compared to who? Jesus Christ? Gandi? Mother Teresa or Henry Ford

CEO's get paid for being capitalists, not humanitarians. Seldom do the two communities overlap while someone is running a company. I think it's impossible for a corporation to be as altruistic or as responsible as individuals. That's why I'm for more democracy instead of corporate control, but corporate power will never go away or should it, once it's democratically regulated.

BTW, the actual first iMacs only came in one color, Bondi Blue. Customer demand later led to multiple colors like on today's iPods. As far as OS X being based on BSD, so what? Nobody else was using it. Just like no one else was using the mouse till Apple promoted it.

[alfredo]

41. I have never had to install a driver to get basic functionality.

I'm sure if you want the full functions of the Epson 2200 printer, download the Epson drivers specific to that printer. A sample of one is not that convincing.

The BSD license is different than what you see for Linux. It gives more flexibility to commercial developers. Apple is not hiding the fact that it is UNIX with a very user friendly interface.

iTunes? If it is so bad, why has it changed the whole industry. Jobs is also pushing for the end of DRM.

Go to Apple's site about their environmental record. http://www.apple.com/hotnews/agreenerapple/


BTW, the first iMacs were more than pretty colors. The techniques used to make the case was revolutionary. Also, it didn't need a fan, the case worked like a chimney. They used the colors because they knew the public wanted it. That was smart marketing. I thought the clear smoke case was beautiful.

Apple pushes their suppliers to innovate. They are very hands on when it comes to helping suppliers to modernize and streamline techniques. Read that article on Mac design that I posted. Remember, Compaq bought the first iMacs, assembled their design team and engineers to study the machine. They even found Apple's packaging of interest. They tore the computer down to see how they did what they did. They did find that Apple employed what they learned from their laptops. The iMac owes a lot to their laptops. the Mini is pretty much an iBook.

the 20th anniversary Mac was the first indication of where they were going with the consumer Mac.



About AMD. Apple has left the door open to switch if they need to. They went to Intel because of several reasons. They knew what was in the pipeline at Intel, and also they wanted to use their chips for other products. AMD just didn't supply all they needed.

Remember, Apple is a hardware company. The OS adds value.

It is more than a pretty face

[Nomad559]

50. Apple's Environmental Record

Claims vs. Truth on Apple TakeBack Recycling
http://www.texasenvironment.org/ewaste_apple.cfm

If you look at Apple's website you would think the company was ahead of the pack with regards to how it handles electronic waste and design for the environment. However, the reality is something different.

Apple Claims: "Apple has long been an advocate of product stewardship, and we believe that this concept extends to the proper disposal of electronic equipment at the end of its useful life."

BadApple Truth: Apple lobbied against legislation requiring companies to set up takeback programs in Maine, Massachusetts andWashington. (The Maine legislation passed in 2004.) Apple lags far behind Dell and HP in its policies or programs to take back its own obsolete products. Some of Apple's product designs (especially the iPod) discourage product upgrades and reuse.

--------------------

http://www.computertakeback.com/bad_apple/bad_apple_biz.cfm

:eyes:

[alfredo]

54. I've only had to pitch out one Mac in 12 years. It got struck by

lightning. I gave it to the shop that did the estimate for my homeowner's insurance. One I gave to a printer friend. Another, an iMac is now a server on a farm west of Frankfort Ky. Why throw them away if they still work?

Apple should institute a take back.

[Greyhound]

44. This is what happens when people that don't know what they're talking about

get a little information. The Idea that Steve Lobs is some kind of infallible genius is just ridiculous when you look at his collective journey. He's the biggest single reason we're all saddled with the shit software that comes out of Redmond, WA. and the mediocre son of a lawyer is the world's richest man (officially).

He is a gifted salesman, but without the business acumen to temper his salesman's ego he nearly ruined Apple, some would say he did. He is the man solely responsible for taking Apple from a 90+% market share to a tiny niche of graphic arts and die-hard hobbyists. He is the guy who, when confronted with his own limitations in running a business, demonstrated his incredible lack of judgment by hiring the guy who sold out Apple to make his own fortune and reputation. He is the guy who insisted that Apple keep everything proprietary while the whole industry went to a cooperative partnership model.

Now we see once again, just how great a salesman he really is, but that is all he is.

[billbuckhead]

45. You're going to love the iPhone

:evilgrin:

[Nomad559]

46. Are you Kevin Rose?

An argument between Kevin Rose and Alex Albrecht on Diggnation over the iPhone. "Show the apple tattoo." :rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KOpHpEK1fg

:rofl:

[Greyhound]

57. Probably not, I'm guessing this is another VOIP "alternative" to the traditional

land-line? Since I do know a lot about digital connectivity and the internetz, I've been amazed at how many people are being suckered into this scam. Just wait until it gets common enough for the inherent defects in using this technology become apparent.

[MyNameGoesHere]

48. I can't wait for the i-rack and i-ran to be released. n/t

[Wiley50]

49. Well, at least this time you aren't talking about grabbing my guns

So, Whatever. I agree