Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Arne Duncan has adopted Bill Gates education "reform" plans.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 04:50 PM
Original message
Arne Duncan has adopted Bill Gates education "reform" plans.
I have written a lot about the fact that I do not like what Arne Duncan is doing as Secretary of Education. He is continuing what Margaret Spelling started at Bush's Department of Education. This time there is no Democratic party fighting back on letting private companies gain a huge foothold in public education.

The Democrats are pushing the Bush agenda through.

And a look at Arne Duncan's goals show they are just the same as those of Bill Gates. One might think Gates is buying his way into education, but of course we would not allow that to happen..would we?

From the Topeka K-12 Examiner

At least according to Leonie Haimson in the Huffington Post. Haimson describes how Bill Gates, and the Gates Foundation, are on a path towards completely dismantling public education and replacing it with a privatized system in which tax-funded profits go to big business.

..."The Gates Foundation, endowed with $35 billion, has already spent billions promoting Gates' personal agenda: the proliferation of charter schools. Gates also promotes linking teacher evaluation and compensation to standardized test scores. Spending billions on education might sound good but considering that neither charter schools nor standardized tests stand up to scrutiny, spending billions promoting them is quite dangerous indeed."


Here's a look at Arne's agenda...looks like he has enough Gates Foundation people on board to get the job done for Bill.

The U.S. Department of Education under Arne Duncan has bought into the Gates' agenda completely. Former Gates Foundation officials now serve in the department; including Jim Shelton, former education program director for Gates and now Assistant Deputy Secretary for "Innovation and Improvement". Joan Weiss, former COO of the NewSchools Venture Fund - financier of charter schools with Gates' dollars - joined Duncan's ranks heading the Race to the Top program and has since been promoted to Duncan's Chief of Staff.

Not coincidentally, the $4.3 billion Race to the Top program requires states to eliminate caps on charter schools, forcibly close traditional schools, and even mandate wholesale firing of teachers and turning schools over to charter school operators. The Gates Foundation even "helped" states write their applications for Race to the Top funds - changing laws on charter schools and teacher evaluation in exchange for a long-shot gamble on what is essentially bribe money.


So many still argue that charter schools are not part of Arne's agenda, yet he himself said so. He has made it clear that though the DOE corrects journalists who say he expects the cap on charters to be lifted....that he will not give his Race to the Top money to a district or state unless they raise the charter cap.

And Duncan told reporters last summer in a conference call that “States that do not have public charter laws or put artificial caps on the growth of charter schools will jeopardize their applications under the Race to the Top fund.”

But Hamilton is right. That is not the same thing as requiring that they pledge to do it.


Leonie Haimson at Huffington Post points out that flawed information is given out to make all these "reforms" sound more successful than they really are. She mentions one study in particular.

The same problematic approach to research is reflected in the Gates' studies of charter schools. Earlier this year, Tom Toch, co- founder of Education Sector, an influential DC advocacy group, was commissioned to do a study of charter management organizations (CMO's), the best known of which is KIPP. Toch concluded after two years of investigation that the CMO's were unlikely to be able to maintain quality while expanding as rapidly as Gates, the NewSchools Venture fund, and others were recommending. His conclusions were changed without his knowledge.


He explained,

"I removed my name from the report because a good deal of my analysis was removed and, as published, the report does not reflect my research findings on the current status and future prospects of charter management organizations."

Among Education Sector's board members and one of the reviewers of this report was a high-level official from the NewSchools Venture Fund, the Gates-supported group that provides start-up money for charter school expansion. Soon after, Toch resigned from Education Sector, the organization that he had co-founded.


It appears they actually changed the data to support their conclusion.

I hate to quote the New York Post, yet they are leading the way on these reforms. Their goal like that of Gates is to get mayors in charge of school systems. It is easier than going through all those stuffy school boards and groups like that which may actually stand up for public education.

Gates tunneled 4 million to Learn-NY

That is the group spearheading the way on having mayors control the schools since it is easier to do things that way.

America's richest man chipped in to help preserve mayoral control of New York City schools.

Microsoft founder and philanthropist Bill Gates -- a pal of fellow billionaire Mayor Bloomberg -- has secretly bankrolled Learn-NY, the group that joined the campaign led by The Post to extend mayoral control. Gates funneled about $4 million to the pro-mayoral-control forces during the fierce, dragged-out legislative debate, The Post has learned. A spokesman for Gates confirmed the donation and the approximate size.

The donation helped pay for Learn-NY's extensive public-relations, media and lobbying efforts in Albany and the city. The effort include advertisements, parent organizing and canvassing -- including a five-borough bus tour and trips to the state capital.

Gates gave the money from his personal pocket -- not from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, which has pumped $150 million into the city to develop small schools. He made it clear that he liked having city CEOs in charge of education decision-making and accountable for results.

"You want to allow for experimentation. The cities where our foundation has put the most money is where there is a single person responsible. In New York, Chicago and Washington, DC, the mayor has the responsibility for the school system," Gates said during a CNN appearance.


Bill Gates and Arne Duncan share a common agenda for education.

Too many billionaires

Here's the boss:

Duncan led the Chicago school system from 2001 to 2008. He oversaw more than 60 school closings, primarily in people-of-color neighborhoods, while rapidly opening privately run charter schools. The Gates Foundation funneled $63.2 million into the Chicago schools during Duncan’s tenure and now Duncan is taking the “Chicago model” nationwide with the help of top aides recruited from the Gates and Broad foundations.



And Bill Gates:

Here come the billionaires:

Bill Gates

..."During the 2008 presidential election the Gates and Broad foundations teamed up to spend $24 million to influence public education policy. Their shared message: Expand charter schools and tie teacher pay to student performance on standardized tests. President Obama’s Secretary of Education, Arne Duncan, has tapped top Gates Foundation officers to be his chief of staff and to head the agency’s Office of Innovation and Improvement. Foundation officers are also spearheading the $4.35 billion Race to the Top program, which promises aid to cash-strapped states that eliminate caps on charter schools and agree to place even greater emphasis on standardized testing. “It is not unfair to say that the Gates Foundation’s agenda has become the country’s agenda in education,” says Michael Petrilli of the Thomas B. Fordham Institute.



Sounds like Bill Gates got all kinds of ovations when he spoke recently at the AFT convention. At least according the Seattle Times.

Gates wins teachers' applause

Rowdy delegates to a national teachers convention Saturday gave several standing ovations to Bill Gates, whose billions in foundation grants for experimental-education-overhaul efforts over more than a decade have sparked widespread controversy and debate.

There were scattered boos and hisses among the 3,400 attendees at the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) convention in Seattle, and a small group of dissident teachers walked out on Gates' speech, but many at the Washington State Convention Center seemed to welcome the Microsoft co-founder's message that teachers must be partners in any efforts to improve student achievement.

..."Rowdy delegates to a national teachers convention Saturday gave several standing ovations to Bill Gates, whose billions in foundation grants for experimental-education-overhaul efforts over more than a decade have sparked widespread controversy and debate.

There were scattered boos and hisses among the 3,400 attendees at the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) convention in Seattle, and a small group of dissident teachers walked out on Gates' speech, but many at the Washington State Convention Center seemed to welcome the Microsoft co-founder's message that teachers must be partners in any efforts to improve student achievement.


How do you know when your agenda is successfully being implemented?

When teachers give ovations to the man who is working hard to break the back of teachers' unions.

That's how you know.






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, teachers MUST be partners in any effort to improve student achievement.
I don't think Gates intends to be their "partner," though.

..."During the 2008 presidential election the Gates and Broad foundations teamed up to spend $24 million to influence public education policy. Their shared message: Expand charter schools and tie teacher pay to student performance on standardized tests.

Were the teachers applauding the Gates agenda, or the idea that teachers ought to be at the table if any reform is to be meaningful?

Put teachers at the table, and Gates-style reforms won't move forward without a fight.

At least, I hope not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I don't know why they gave ovations.
They should not trust him. They were probably being polite and not making waves. Teachers are trained not to make waves.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. They shouldn't trust him.
:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. I was there. The only standing ovations I remember are when he came onstage to speak
and when he was done. I was trying to take notes and pictures so I wasn't concentrating on the reaction of the teachers. But some of the blogs today are giving the impression that we stood and cheered throughout much of his speech. That is completely false.

He did get quite a few boos, several yelled disapprovingly and when he mentioned pay for performance the crowd booed loudly. Gates then looked down at his speech and flipped it to the next page and changed the subject. I laughed at that moment, and hoped others saw him do that.

But no. There were NOT several standing ovations. No way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Just going by the article, the last one. It could be spin.
But then we all know the media never spins.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. That's good to hear.
The thought that people had stood and cheered through the whole thing made me depressed. I guess they wanted Gates to have a nice report for agitprop. This whole thing is insane.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Randi asked everyone to be respectful
And most were.

I am sitting here with two others who were there and they don't remember any standing ovations either.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
39. Here's a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Ezri0pVOg

It doesn't show how many protesters walked out and it doesn't show any of those who stayed holding signs up. But it also doesn't show a bunch of standing ovations, which didn't happen.

It does give you an idea of what a shitty public speaker Bill is.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. umm he is adopting Obama's plan - he does what he is told. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. the washington state teachers are fools. broad moles are already planted in the state, & gates
& others are busy dispensing the bribes to open the state up to charters, merit pay, gates-style "evaluation" & all the rest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. The AFT Convetion makes sense.
When you go to their website and start reading, they appear to be trying to fight the privatization and position themselves to try to have a teacher's union with private schools if they fail and everything gets privatized. I suspect a combination of desperation and futility since teacher unions aren't part of Arne/Barney's plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. You are exactly right
We want a seat at the table. Reform that teachers help shape is better than reform that is imposed upon us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Refuse the reform...
forget the table, hit the streets!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. Okay. But I could be all by myself.
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 05:14 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. I'd join you!
:fistbump:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Did they allow the single payer people to have a seat at the table
or did they pretty much kick them out of the room? :(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I am still wondering why the union elected a professor from Broad Academy.
Perhaps they did not realize Randi was pushing Eli Broad's agenda for schools. Broad and Gates are working hard to harm unions, yet they are embraced readily.

Randi was a professor there at the Superintendent's academy .

I guess the fact they feel the need to embrace them closely means they realize that public schools are on the way out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. the members don't vote...
only a select few vote...probably many from BA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I did not realize that.
I was a member before I retired. From the ground level up. PEA, FEA, NEA....I know locally and state we had good representation. Members don't vote?

I guess you mean national level?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. Delegates vote
Each delegate votes on behalf of x number of members, depending on how many are in your local and how many delegates are present from your local at the convention.

There has also been only one candidate for president in each election since 1974. This was the first election with more than one candidate running for prez in 36 years. So when Randi was elected in 2008 she was the only candidate.

Local elections are much different. Each member gets a vote. It's also a secret ballot. But the national ballots are not secret.

It's a bizarre system but I think many unions run similar kinds of elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. Please tell me how you would fix a broken public education system
Increasing teacher pay doesn't count as a reform.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. If that's what you think teachers think reform is all about
you are sadly and grossly misinformed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoxFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Then answer the question and prove me wrong
How would you fix a failing public school system? Please give me something other than teacher pay and classroom size.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Where did you even get that idea?
The best thing to fix our school system is to get the damn politicians out of the classroom. Politicians have no idea of how children learn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. When someone says "failing school system"....then their minds are made up.
I have tried to present a case when those words are used, but it is useless.

So there is no need to order us around and demand we immediately respond to you.

It would do no good anyway, you would just say we had not proved our case.

Bye for now.

Hint: The words "failing school system" are talking points.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. They are talking points. Until the election of President Obama, they were Republican talking points.
:nuke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Now they are major Democratic talking points.
Exactly right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Why would classroom size not be an element of reform? Do you think my patients got better care...
Edited on Sun Jul-11-10 09:38 PM by laughingliberal
when hospitals doubled the nurse/patient ratio? How has increased class sizes not negatively affected education? It's nuts to propose any reform that does not allow the teacher to devote more time to the students.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. YET AGAIN:
Edited on Sun Jul-11-10 09:23 PM by LWolf
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=219&topic_id=26438&mesg_id=26493

I hope 22 different things to do is enough for you.

That post doesn't address post-high school education. I'll do that now:

Universal public preschool, and universal public post-high school ed, whether it be trade school or college.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. 22 is not enough....you must present more. :)
But I am bookmarking your post for the future. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I bookmarked it, too.
I get tired of answering the same question, over and over, for the last decade, when no one is really listening. I figured being able to pull the same post up repeatedly would save time.

Except that I forgot to address post-high school ed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. My answer from earlier...
Edited on Sun Jul-11-10 10:10 PM by YvonneCa
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Killing public education, or allowing it to die on the vine, is not reform either
Duncan only cares about the corporations behind charter schools, and the money they make at our expense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Wow, that one sentence right there simply goes to show how ignorant you are about education,
Edited on Sun Jul-11-10 11:36 PM by MadHound
Education reform, education in other countries and the history of education in this country. Let me fill you in on a few things.

First of all, if you look at the top two countries in education, what's the one thing you see in common? Oh, yeah, they not only treat their teachers with respect and dignity, they pay them well and give them adequate facilities and resources to do their job. Teachers are, in both Finland and Japan, treated essentially like we treat doctors in this country, with respect for their position. They are paid well over one hundred thousand dollars.

Now, in this country, though we talk a good game about wanting the best for our kids, we don't pay for it. We were able to get away with this up until about forty years ago. You see, back in those days, if you were a woman who wanted a career, one of the only ways you could have one was in teaching. Thus, with a limited set of options forcing women into a handful of professions, education was able to have numerous excellent teachers entering and remaining in the profession. Bonus, since teaching was considered women's work, school boards were able to get by with paying teachers crappy wages, even those these teachers were bright, intelligent, and well educated.

However that situation has changed, and now with a wide ranges of career options, more women, more people in general are taking a look at the pay scale for teachers, taking a look at the balance on their student loan sheet and saying "screw that," opting to enter some other more lucrative field. I have seen lots of college students, bright, intelligent students who wanted to teach but didn't feel that they could have a decent life if they taught, and thus went elsewhere. The education profession has suffered a huge brain drain because of this.

However, if you raise teacher's pay to the point where teaching is a well paying career, if you spend the money needed to have decent facilities and resources teachers need, you would see an improvement in our education system.

Instead we're seeing this administration systematically go about driving the teaching profession even further into the ground, and still following the model of talking a good game about how education is one of the most important things in this country, but unwilling to pay for it. Is it no wonder that other countries whose teachers are well paid and their education system is well funded throughout are beating us out in educational quality?

The stark reality is that if you want quality education you have to pay for it. Apparently we're not ready to do that in this country, instead squandering our wealth and resources fighting a meaningless, illegal and immoral war instead while allowing our future to fail.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Great post! Thank you! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. A+
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
strategery blunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. Right on
Edited on Mon Jul-12-10 08:29 PM by strategery blunder
I had wanted to teach history at the high school level; I would've also considered teaching composition as I am quite good at writing. Unfortunately for me, I entered college at about the same time as Bush and his cronies were floating NCLB trial balloons.

I saw the writing on the wall and knew that teaching was about to get union-busted, and I aborted my plans. This abrupt change saddled me with a BA in history that I didn't know what to do with, given that the rest of the economy was beginning to crack at the time, too. I decided to train to become a paralegal instead.

If I ever teach, I will do so in Canada. I had many excellent teachers who inspired me to want to teach a subject that held my interest. However, I see politicians gutting substantive education at every turn, refusing to acknowledge that Wal-Martization of teaching WILL lead to crippling brain-drain for the profession, and I can do little more than shudder.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-10 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Of course he has. Gates is rich so he must know everything.
Or at least be worshipped as if he did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yet another madfloridian post to K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-14-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
41. You know that expression "throwing money at failing schools won't work"??
You hear it a lot as a major talking point.

Well, the bitter irony is that the "reformers" are throwing HUGE money at private schools, charter schools, and vouchers.....and it will destroy public schools finally because it is taking their funding away to give to those reformer type schools.

So "throwing big money" really is going to help privatize the schools.

It would have helped public schools, but they were taking money away while claiming they would not throw money at them.

I am very bitter that in my lifetime under a Democratic president...I will see public education die.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC