The general population does not like you.. and they have not for the last 50 years

[Peacetrain]

People do not like liberals or Democrats.. they don't.. they do not love us, or want to support us.. they do it only because the right side so screws up they have no place to go.

Why is that..because the message is in the media.. and it has been an all out push since Kennedy to isolate Democrats and Liberals as baby killers, wimps, morally impaired and lazy bums who are going to take all your taxes and give it to someone who is undeserving.

"They" despise us... not only the 20% or rabid right, but the right center and a good chunk of independents.

And we have to work with those nimrods to get anything done... anything..

This is not for the faint of heart.. or the easily disillusioned to be a Democrat or a Liberal.

You have to have guts, and take the hits.. and keep on coming back with the facts and the truth..

They are never ever going to like us, or even give us credit for anything we accomplish..but we can win this in the long long run, just because we refuse to give up.

It took 50 years to instill this hate to such a place that right wing radio is pushing racism on a grand scale and no one blinks.

But I will be damned if I am going to roll over and play dead.

[frazzled]

1. Well, at least they liked me when I was 10, then

That's when I remember sitting in front of the TV, watching the Democratic Convention into the wee hours with my parents. They were Adlai Stevenson supporters, but of course became Kennedy supporters. It's how I became a liberal Democrat.

[Peacetrain]

2. I hear you.. today you have to have a spine of steel

because the "abuse" campagin has worked so well.. You really have to know your stuff..know yourself and be willing to stand in there..

People have now gotten so used to being lied to..that even if you show them how the right is lying to them, they still look for a reason to support the right.

Nuts, just nuts sometimes

[damntexdem]

6. All part of the death spiral of the American Empire.

Such things are never pretty things to have to watch.

[TheKentuckian]

3. Hence, the best thing to do is kick them square in the ass and give em something to cry about

Maybe they'll figure out that they like what they thought of as pain and if not they'll get a taste and know fact from fallacy at least.

Pussyfooting has an equally bad record and cannot be ruled out as a source of distrust and disdain.

Cut out the nanny state rhetoric, bust the pukes in the mouth relentlessly, stop licking corporate taint, and the worm would turn in short order.

Bullies must be fought, even getting whipped is better than being chumped or running and hiding. The more we get punked the harder the bullies will come.

[ljm2002]

8. +10000!!! n/t

[EFerrari]

17. "Let's give them something to cry about" -- didn't Bonnie Rait cover that?

lol

[socialist_n_TN]

19. "Bullies must be fought, even getting whipped is better

than being chumped or running and hiding."

No truer word have ever been spoken. Gotta get up, stand up, stand up TO the right!

[loudsue]

4. Nor do I like the general population.

In fact, I've become fairly antisocial because I don't like to be around the wingnut types who think their philosophy is "conservative" (it's not, of course. It's simply bassackward. )

The only people in our rural area that screw around their customers are republicans. Those who just plug along doing the right thing by themselves and their neighbors are democrats. The republicans come over (my husband knows 'em) and the wife goes through my refrig, cabinets, bathroom drawers, at will, with me going along behind her asking her to stay out of things. NONE of the local democratic voters do that. NONE.

One local carpenter billed us for an exta 15 hours of work HE DID NOT DO, by padding an invoice and sending in the bill 3 weeks later, as if I wouldn't notice the discrepancy??????!!!!! Republican.

That whole side of the aisle are so seriously "entitled". They hate "entitlements" because they're afraid someone will steal more than they can.

[Lorien]

5. Nonsense. The conservatives are in the minority in America

Throughout the Western world liberal/ progressive ideas are preferred over authoritarian/ right wing ideologies. Just because the MSM tries to convince you otherwise doesn't make it so.

[walldude]

10. Bingo... this is a crock.

This is a liberal country, it was founded on liberal ideas and if you ask most Americans the right questions you will find they are liberal.

Example:

If you ask an American if they support "baby killing" chances are you will get one for the "pro-life" slot.

But if you ask an American if they believe they have the right to force their views on others, then you will get one for the pro choice slot.

It's all in how you ask.

And yes about 30% of us are idiots and will say yes they support forcing their views on others but make no mistake they are the minority.

[depakid]

18. By leaps and bounds- although no matter what evidence you adduce- nor how many times you do

Some will never be convinced. Ever.

The cognitive dissonance created by the fact that on issue after issues- the majority- often by substantial margins hold progressive positions too much to deal with.

Their psyches overload.

[elana i am]

27. how do you figure? because in my mind

neither the conservatives or the liberals are the majority. the independent, unaffiliated, and moderate to centerist non-party line voter types are the majority. they would be the folks who occupy the middle with both some liberal and some conservative views, none of which can be broken up in easy to discern categories like "socially liberal" and "fiscally conservative".

[depakid]

28. How do I figure? -like most people shoud: from credible data and analysis

Which I've posted dozens of times- including the breakdown here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8311732&mesg_id=8312675

The numbers are such that there's not really even room for argument about it.

[Carolina]

7. it has not simply been the media

let's face it, many spineless "Democrats" have aided and abetted the demonization of liberalism. John Kerry ran from the word like the plague in 2004, Obam... puhleeze.

Too bad, every so-called liberal Democrat should repeat John Kennedy's words early and often"

"... I believe in human dignity as the source of national purpose, in human liberty as the source of national action, the human heart as the source of national compassion and the human mind as the source of our invention and our ideas. It is, I believe, this faith in our fellow citizens as individuals and as people that lies at the heart of the liberal faith; for liberalism is not so much a party creed or a set of fixed platform promises as it is an attitude of the mind and heart, a faith in man's ability through the experiences of his reason and judgment to increase for himself and his fellow men the amount of justice and freedom and brotherhood which all human life deserves."

[Whisp]

9. excellent, thank you.

this is what Obama has to fight every minute of every day.

Plus he has to take on some democrats as well.

I am very glad it is he who has to do this - I can't see anyone else having the stomach to handle this extraordinary pile of nasty left behind by his predecessors.

[Rageneau]

11. They liked me when I was a zygote.

After birth, not so much.

[Mimosa]

12. Peacetrain, how can we change perception?

Peacetrain, you described the situation well:

"Why is that..because the message is in the media.. and it has been an all out push since Kennedy to isolate Democrats and Liberals as baby killers, wimps, morally impaired and lazy bums who are going to take all your taxes and give it to someone who is undeserving."


I think if most of the people who've bought into the propaganda about liberals could read posts on D.U. for a few days their minds might be opened. Most good people in this country have similar values. But some have been systematically brainwashed. The demagogues have been successful at exploiting people's fears -based in reality- about their financial security.

[socialist_n_TN]

16. Don't worry about labels, IMO

Just take positions on the side of workers.

And if somebody calls you a "liberal", get all huffy and say, "I ain't no fucking liberal. I'm a SOCIALIST." :) Ok maybe not. But if you take socialistic POSITIONS on issues, you'll probably get more support than pushback. "Call me what you want, but I'm on the side of the average person, NOT the corporations. How about you?"

[niyad]

13. "illegitimati non carburundum' has been my motto for as long as I can remenber

and I have been hated for as long as I can remember--for being female, for having a brain, for speaking my mind, for working for justice, equality, a sustainable world. . .

solid brass ovaries, in addition to that spine of steel.

[librechik]

14. yeah, but "they" are only about 35% of the US

they intimidate us into thinking they're a bigger group because they control the media.
Fuck them!

[EFerrari]

15. What? You're reacting to right wing propaganda.

Don't let them bait you.

[G_j]

20. this thread has been a good read

it's amazing how much our perceptions determine outcomes.

[EFerrari]

24. The Noise Machine is a 24/7 challenge, that's for sure.

Keeps us limber. :hi:

[BeFree]

21. So

It ain't just me, huh? <grin>

It is all our fault, eh? That's the meme we hear.

The unions? Bad.
Environmentalists? Bad. They even caused the Deep Water Horizon event.
Deficits? Our fault, not the rightees, no way, the right are fiscally sound.

On and on it goes, wearing us down and pretty much getting their way.

Did we stop the wars, save the economy, or stop bushco from trashing the constitution?

The right has run the show for the last 20 years. And here we are.
That's my story.

[lib2DaBone]

22. The right-Wing Robber Barons must exercise their control....

.. they MUST convince the mass working poor that what they are experiencing.. is "For Their Own Good".

Of course they get the media to go along... but of course... they OWN the media.. so that is not a difficult task.

[rufus dog]

23. Shit I wasn't even born

Get your point though. I think it is a bit overstated. The loud talking pukes are usually insecure assholes. Because they have the backing of the media they spout off the rightie talking points. Most of the loud ones I know are usually in Sales, and bad, thus they feel good by regurgitating the BS. On a good day I point out a pimple or comment 'have you gained weight? it looks good on you. On a bad day I kick em in the nuts.

[booley]

25. sorry dupe

ignore

[booley]

26. It was a shell game

Yes a lot of people have negative view of Liberals.

But a lot of those same people, when asked what they believe have progressive ideas.

In short they hate liberals and yet share many if not all the same beliefs.

And it certainly doesn't help that as a group, Liberals royally suck at selling our positions.

I mean yes cons made Liberal a dirty word using a straw man.

But they also spent a lot of time (decades) and effort and money to convince people that their position was better.

They won the battle and got people to agree with them about policy (even if many didn't quite understand what cons really meant)

But they are losing the war because their ideas, frankly suck ass.

We need to stop being so whiny and having this elitist victim mentality (oh no one understands us. Woe!) and actually convince people that our ideas worked before and will again.

And we need to realize that this will probably take years to do.

[Mimosa]

29. Most dems don't get how we can influence people close to us and online

There are people beyond discussions. They are on the far right. And they are selfish pigs. Amybody who makes under $65,000 is on thin ice economically.