Transcript: How the for-profit health insurance empire got started

[woo me with science]

http://www.inspire.com/groups/health-news/journal/how-the-health-care-mess-all-got-started


Transcript of taped conversation between President Richard Nixon and John D. Ehrlichman (1971) that led to the HMO act of 1973


John D. Ehrlichman: “On the … on the health business …”

President Nixon: “Yeah.”

Ehrlichman: “… we have now narrowed down the vice president’s problems on this thing to one issue and that is whether we should include these health maintenance organizations like Edgar Kaiser’s Permanente thing. The vice president just cannot see it. We tried 15 ways from Friday to explain it to him and then help him to understand it. He finally says, ‘Well, I don’t think they’ll work, but if the President thinks it’s a good idea, I’ll support him a hundred percent.’”

President Nixon: “Well, what’s … what’s the judgment?”

Ehrlichman: “Well, everybody else’s judgment very strongly is that we go with it.”

President Nixon: “All right.”

Ehrlichman: “And, uh, uh, he’s the one holdout that we have in the whole office.”

President Nixon: “Say that I … I … I’d tell him I have doubts about it, but I think that it’s, uh, now let me ask you, now you give me your judgment. You know I’m not too keen on any of these damn medical programs.”

Ehrlichman: “This, uh, let me, let me tell you how I am …”

President Nixon: (Unclear.)

Ehrlichman: “This … this is a …”

President Nixon: “I don’t (unclear) …”

Ehrlichman: “… private enterprise one.”

President Nixon: “Well, that appeals to me.”

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: (Unclear.)

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” (Unclear.)

Ehrlichman: (Unclear) “… and the incentives run the right way.”

President Nixon: “Not bad.”


Source: University of Virginia Check - February 17, 1971, 5:26 pm - 5:53 pm, Oval Office Conversation 450-23. Look for: tape rmn_e450c.

[SidDithers]

1. What a liberal that Nixon was...nt

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

2. What on earth are you talking about?

NGU.

[SidDithers]

3. There have been posts in the past couple of weeks touting Nixon's liberalism...

The OP in this thread clearly shows just how not liberal Nixon was. I didn't think I needed the sarcasm tag - maybe I was wrong :hi:

Sid

[unhappycamper]

4. Tricky Dick was a scumbag for his times...... n/t

[ClassWarrior]

6. No there haven't. There have been posts aptly pointing out that the Dick's positions on some...

...issues were relatively liberal, compared to the discourse today.

Do you really have trouble grasping a simple concept like this? Or are you being deliberately misleading?

NGU.

[villager]

8. Oh, I think we know which of those two options it is...

;-)

[ClassWarrior]

17. I guess so. See post #13...

:rofl:

NGU.

[SidDithers]

9. "Will we ever elect a President as Liberal as Richard Nixon again"...

That's not a post touting Nixon's liberalism? That thead led to discussions on other threads about the same topic.

Nixon was a racist fuck, who operated in times that allowed him to do a few positive things. That in no way, shape or form supports the idea that he was liberal.

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

10. I can't judge whether it is or not because you conveniently didn't provide a link.

But the threads I've seen were comments on the distorted nature of today's discourse. Nothing more.

NGU.

[SidDithers]

12. Sorry, I thought you knew how to use the Advanced Search function...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=8643673

But the content of the thread aside, the Subject of the thread is plainly calling Nixon a Liberal, not a President with some liberal positions.

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

13. So all of this wailing and gnashing of teeth is over a thread's title??

"But the content of the thread aside??"

:rofl:

NGU.

[SidDithers]

16. The title of the thread is sufficient to support my claim...

the content of the thread also supports my claim, but it's just gravy.

I've noticed, tho, that you've conveniently avoided addressing both the thread title, and the content.

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

18. No it doesn't. Since you asked so nicely, let me address the content...

"I would be thrilled if on budgetary matters he would be more Nixionian."

NGU.

[SidDithers]

19. What does the poster's opinion of Obama have to do with the thread...

I thought we were talking about about Nixon. About how the poster is claiming that Nixon was Liberal. About electing a President "as Liberal as Nixon".

Whether the poster wants Obama to be more like Nixon is immaterial (but scary in its own right).

Sid

Edit: fixed punctuation in the Subject.

[ClassWarrior]

21. ROFLMAO

Epic fail.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

22. .

[SidDithers]

23. You've cut me to the quick..

I submit that I'm not worthy to reply to your obviously superior intellect and your rapier-like wit. How can one form a retort to the classic "ROFLMAO Epic Fail" gambit? The prize is yours, sir, you have shown yourself to be most deserving.

Of course, stout readers will notice that you once again avoided the issue of Nixon as a Liberal, also your apparent belief that a statement about Obama somehow describes Nixon.

NGU, my ass.

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

24. No, you win. The title of one thread called Nixon a liberal, even though the content of...

...the very same thread didn't. Let's get out the DLC torches and pitchforks!!

:rofl:

And if any others missed where I addressed what you call "the issue of Nixon as a Liberal," I pity them as much as I pity you.

NGU.

[SidDithers]

25. Now it's my turn to ROFLMAO...

And throw "Epic Fail" back in your NGU face. :eyes:

It's DLC to maintain that Nixon was no Liberal? Does that make it somehow "progressive" to say that he was? :rofl:

Sid

[ClassWarrior]

26. ROFLMAO...

Why so upset? Because someone's actually calling out your confuse-the-debate tactics?

:rofl:

NNNGU.

[Scuba]

14. That's what I' ve been trying to say....

...but I keep getting slammed.

[JHB]

7. Maybe it's a perception thing, but I never had any trouble understanding...

...that the assorted "liberal Nixon" posts were not arguing that Nixon was in fact a liberal, but were instead illustrating just how distorted the terms of out political dialog have become, roughly the same sentiment I express at the times when I describe myself as an "Eisenhower socialist".

[izquierdista]

5. Spiro didn't understand?

Probably because they didn't explain where his cut came from.

[Uncle Joe]

11. Doesn't this just warm your heart, I have no idea why these guys didn't go to work for Hallmark?

Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”

President Nixon: (Unclear.)

Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”

President Nixon: “Fine.” (Unclear.)

Ehrlichman: (Unclear) “… and the incentives run the right way.”

President Nixon: “Not bad.”

I wonder how many hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Americans have died and will continue to die because of this conversation?

Thanks for the thread, woo me with science.

[Oregone]

15. I don't get how this conversation is that important

For-profit already existed at the time.

Nixon's NHIPA was rejected by a very liberal Congress, so he wasn't able to mandate private for-profit health insurance.

So.....?

Yes, it does sound like a bunch of a elite assholes being assholes.

[WhiteTara]

20. I remember when this happened

no one wanted to join HMOs. Then the next generation (seven years) didn't know about fairly decent health care and it was "cheaper" than regular insurance. The rest is history.