Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If thus guy is innocent can you imagine what he's gone through?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 08:39 AM
Original message
If thus guy is innocent can you imagine what he's gone through?
DNA points to another suspect in 2005 slayings of Zion girls

Jerry Hobbs has been jailed for five years, but new DNA evidence may help exonerate him


By Lisa Black, Steve Mills and Ruth Fuller, Chicago Tribune
July 7, 2010



After holding a Zion man for five years in the heinous killings of his 8-year-old daughter and her young friend, prosecutors revealed Tuesday that they had matched DNA evidence to someone else — and were beginning their investigation anew.

The stunning development could lead to the release of Jerry Hobbs, who was arrested in May 2005 after allegedly confessing to killing both girls when his daughter defied his order to come home, said his lawyer, assistant public defender Keith Grant.

The DNA match to the new suspect was discovered June 25, said Jeff Pavletic, first assistant state's attorney for Lake County. Since then, the Lake County Major Crimes Task Force has begun interviewing new witnesses and re-interviewing others.

more

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-hobbs-0707-20100707,0,5156252.story
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. Once the cops/prosecutors think they "have their man" they are single minded about nailing him..
They really are far more about clearing the case and getting a conviction than they are about making sure that true justice is served.

A generalization but true in the majority of cases.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's not just cops and prosecutors, it's the general public
From a rational point of view, the worse the crime, the greater the evidence should have to be to convict someone of that crime.

From an hysterical, emotional point of view, however, the worse the crime, the more people treat concepts like "presumption of innocence" as "coddling criminals", "criminals having more rights than victims", etc. Someone must PAY. In people's minds accused and guilty are the same thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. So true
The vast majority of counties are pro prosecution counties.

Also when something gets media attention then there is public pressure to catch the person as quickly as possible and get a conviction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Too bad we don't have a quick and swift death penalty
Oh, wait...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. BULLSFUCKINGEYE.
:thumbsup:

Punishment fetishists are harmful for society and CAUSE INNOCENT DEATHS.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. They decide who they think did it. They brow beat and lie. They get bogus confessions.
People wonder how someone can confess to a murder they didn't commit, but it's seldom so simple as that. Cops will suggest to them that the evidence shows they DID do it, that they might have done it and forgotten.

The simple fact is many cops are neither bright nor honest. They jump to unwarranted conclusions, and as soon as they reach their hasty conclusion, they set about to contort the evidence to get the guy they want. Many investigations are controlled by the outcome the cops wish to support. They ignore evidence that would exonerate the suspect. They hide evidence that would exonerate the suspect. They lie and make things up to sell a case. They lean on witnesses to say things much more strongly than the witnesses ever did. They'll take a "I think it might have been him" witness and browbeat them until they will say "I'm 100% sure it was him."

Our criminal justice system is designed to efficiently convict anyone who lacks ready resources to fight government prosecutors and police. We deny decent representation to most defendants, and trample their rights from the moment they are first accused to the moment they are finally released from government oppression.

If you have money, you get out on bail. If you don't, you sit in some county jail, convicted of nothing, just accused by a couple of jerks - one cop and one assistant prosecutor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
smokey nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. And there's nothing to discourage police and prosecutors from engaging in that
behavior either. The system turns a blind eye to police and prosecutorial misconduct.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Everything is designed to turn that blind eye to such abuses.
The judges do it. The appellate courts do it. They allow abuse to exist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. I can think of one thing that WOULD make them as honest as possible
If it can be shown that a prosecutor continued to press for a conviction of an innocent person even after evidence is discovered pointing to someone else, and if it can be shown that the person they were trying to convict is actually innocent, I think the prosecutor should have to face the sentence they were requesting for the innocent person. Jury trial, sentencing, the whole nine yards.

It would make people more hesitant to become city/county/whatever prosecutors, but I think the ones we end up with would be one hell of a lot more honest...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. False confessions are also sometimes made to protect someone else--
a close relative, lover, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
7. It's almost always about punishment
and hardly ever about justice. As another poster suggested, usually in direct proportion to the heinousness of the offense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. A couple things jump out right away
Edited on Wed Jul-07-10 10:46 AM by Occulus
"prosecutors revealed Tuesday that they had matched DNA evidence to someone else"

"The stunning development could lead to the release of Jerry Hobbs"

What kind of a fuck-up country is this, where it says "could" instead of "will"?

edit: this part makes me want to do bad things involving stones, harp wire, and knives to the prosecutor:

"Semen found in Laura's body and on her skirt did not match Hobbs' DNA, but even after that was discovered in 2008, prosecutors continued to push for the death penalty."

Decency fails me on this one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. Occulus - "In 2008, Mermel sought to explain the lack of a match...by suggesting the girl might have
by suggesting the girl might have gotten the semen on her while playing around the crime scene — a wooded area where he said other couples go to have sex — even though she was found fully clothed" !!!
And in an earlier case, he said that an ELEVEN YEAR-OLD victim "may have had consensual sex with someone else before Rivera killed her"!!! Jeebus H. Christ on a trailer hitch.

From the article in the OP:


The Lake County state's attorney's office has been criticized for its approach to DNA evidence in two additional high-profile cases. Prosecutors — led in all three cases by criminal division chief Michael Mermel — have continued to press for convictions even after DNA taken in each case was found not to come from the suspects.
In 2008, Mermel sought to explain the lack of a match in the Hobbs case by suggesting the girl might have gotten the semen on her while playing around the crime scene — a wooded area where he said other couples go to have sex — even though she was found fully clothed.
{snip} In another Lake County case plagued by DNA questions, prosecutors continue to pursue Bennie Starks as the perpetrator in the 1986 rape of a 68-year-old woman in Waukegan. After he was convicted, matching DNA samples taken from a vaginal swab and the woman's underwear were found to not fit Starks' genetic profile.
Awarded a new trial and released on bond in 2006 after he had served 20 years of a 60-year sentence, he awaits trial and has filed a lawsuit against the city of Waukegan.

In another case, Juan Rivera was sentenced to life in prison after he was convicted by a jury in May 2009 for the third time in the rape and murder of 11-year-old Holly Staker in Waukegan in 1992.
Though Rivera confessed to the crime, defense experts have said semen found in the girl's body didn't come from him. Prosecutors have suggested the semen may have been tainted or that the girl may have had consensual sex with someone else before Rivera killed her. Prosecutors have said Rivera's confession indicated he knew things only the killer could know.




From a blog of Northwestern Univ law professors from the time the DNA non-match was revealed (Nov. 2008):



Mermel's response is stunning. Whether the semen was in her body cavity or not, it was found on a dead eight year old girl's body and it was not from the man the police believe killed her. Morever, Hobbs's confession does not mention any sexual contact with either of the girls -- he describes an impulsive stabbing not a planned rape.

If the semen is matched to a specific perpetrator and that perpetrator cannot be linked to Hobbs, Lake County prosecutors should admit their error and release Hobbs, rather than try to come up with a new theory to explain away the semen. But don't count on it. In the case of Juan Rivera, which Lake County prosecutors are taking to trial in February, DNA test results on semen found inside an 11 year old victim caused prosecutors to suggest that the 11 year old must have had consensual sex with another man or boy within hours or days of her rape and murder by Juan Rivera. Maybe they'll suggest that 8 year old Laura Hobbs had consensual sex on the day of her murder? Or perhaps they'll argue that some unknown man came upon the dead girl's body, excited himself, and left his DNA on her?

Stay tuned.

http://blog.law.northwestern.edu/bluhm/2008/11/index.ht...

From a more recent post on that blog, by the same law prof, he awards the Gold,Silver and Bronze medals for explaining away DNA evidence that doesn't fit:

Explaining Away DNA: Colorado Prosecutor Takes the Gold Medal
In early posts, I have discussed the musings of Lake County Prosecutor Mike Mermel in his efforts to explain away DNA in order to preserve arrests or convictions built solely on the basis of confessions of questionable reliability. Although Lake County prosecutors have ignored DNA results in three cases -- Juan Rivera, Bennie Starks, and Jerry Hobbs -- Mermel's public comments in the wake of DNA evidence in Hobbs's case were the most bizarre I had heard until last week. But first, in the spirit of the Olympic Games, let's lay out the bronze, silver, and gold medal winners for explaining away DNA.
<snip - some truly stunning stuff follows, concerning other asshole DAs>

There was no mention of any sexual assault in Hobbs' confession. Three years later, however, semen was found on Hobb's daughters clothes and in several of her body cavities. It wasn't Hobbs's semen. Faced with this evidence, most prosecutors would have packed their bags and worked overtime to find out the identity of the semen donor. Not Mermel. His take was that the girl must have rubbed up against some semen while playing in the woods, a place where teenagers are constantly going to have sex. "It is such a goofy logic leap because somewhere in her life she came into contact with a sperm cell it means she was sexually assaulted. To take this leap that this is the identity of the mystery killer, I don't know where everybody gets this idea." Mermel went on, "If you swabbed the outhouse handles, it would not be unusual for a little girl to get that sperm...If you swabbed any tops of things like a remote control or your average shopping cart handle, you'd be surprised what you'd find."

http://blog.law.northwestern.edu/bluhm/



Another good blog entry by this prof, titled "Accountability for Prosecutors": http://blog.law.northwestern.edu/bluhm/2009/03/accounta...



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. Not to mention what the treatment in prison must be like
Even in prison, certain crimes are not received too well by the other inmates.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm surprised he is still alive n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. This guy apparently has been jailed for FIVE YEARS WITHOUT A TRIAL.
What. The. Fuck.

A Northwestern Univ. law professor discusses Hobbs's "confession" here, back in Nov. 2008 (20 months ago) - when it was found that DNA from semen found on one of the victims did not match his: http://blog.law.northwestern.edu/bluhm/2008/11/index.html

Sounds like the prosecutors in this county are batshit crazy overzealous nutjobs: (from the article in the OP):
The Lake County state's attorney's office has been criticized for its approach to DNA evidence in two additional high-profile cases. Prosecutors — led in all three cases by criminal division chief Michael Mermel — have continued to press for convictions even after DNA taken in each case was found not to come from the suspects.
In 2008, Mermel sought to explain the lack of a match in the Hobbs case by suggesting the girl might have gotten the semen on her while playing around the crime scene — a wooded area where he said other couples go to have sex — even though she was found fully clothed.
{snip} In another Lake County case plagued by DNA questions, prosecutors continue to pursue Bennie Starks as the perpetrator in the 1986 rape of a 68-year-old woman in Waukegan. After he was convicted, matching DNA samples taken from a vaginal swab and the woman's underwear were found to not fit Starks' genetic profile.
Awarded a new trial and released on bond in 2006 after he had served 20 years of a 60-year sentence, he awaits trial and has filed a lawsuit against the city of Waukegan.

In another case, Juan Rivera was sentenced to life in prison after he was convicted by a jury in May 2009 for the third time in the rape and murder of 11-year-old Holly Staker in Waukegan in 1992.
Though Rivera confessed to the crime, defense experts have said semen found in the girl's body didn't come from him. Prosecutors have suggested the semen may have been tainted or that the girl may have had consensual sex with someone else before Rivera killed her. Prosecutors have said Rivera's confession indicated he knew things only the killer could know.


An ELEVEN YEAR-OLD had consensual sex with someone else just prior to being murdered?!?!!!! Yeah. Sure. This Mermel guy needs to lose his job. Pronto.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-07-10 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
15. "allegedly confessed"?
How the hell does that happen?

And his DNA did not match semen found on 1 of the girls? This sounds terrible. How the hell did the semen get there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 30th 2024, 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC