what if we closed out bases around the world, brought ALL our military home, and devoted

[peacebird]

the resources (and manpower of our troops) to rebuilding America? Repair roads, bridges, upgrade schools, build free clinics across the country.... So many local and state govts are flat broke, can't we spend our finite resources on us for a change? I'm sure the Afghanis and Iraqis would like to not have to worry about being collateral damage. Many other countries would not mind having us leave either...

I'm sure this is never gonna happen, but...

[obxhead]

1. We could possibly live up to the 'claim' that this is the

greatest country in the world.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. The first result would be a massive surge in unemployment. and recession..

when you dump 1.3 million men and women serving in the military and another 669,000 civilians working directly for the military into the civilian job market. (The U.S. military is the largest single employer in the U.S.) You should also remember that at least a million more working for the military industrial complex would be jobless. This would be multiplied when the economy of every town that had a military base collapsed, causing unemployment to surge. You didn't mention the approximately 1.1 million members of the national guard and reserve, but if you dumped them they would lose part to all of their income.

This would follow with a massive recession that would move out around the world, because the U.S. buys a lot of goods and services from other countries.

It would also lead to enormous international unrest, when the U.S. unilaterally announced that every agreement and treaty that we have with other nations is voided. Most likly this would realign world power around China, India, and a resurgant Russia (now trying to reachieve superpower status.) NATO would cease to exist.

I agree that the U.S. should divest itself of empire, but it won't be a pretty thing and having it happened suddenly would not be a kumbaya moment.

[peacebird]

3. except I said NOTHING about letting them go, I said put them to work HERE at HOME

rebuilding America. Reread my post - the military would be brought home and continue working only on infrastructure here.

No surge in unemployment. Perhaps you should reread the original post?

[Ozymanithrax]

5. The military isn't set up for that. It doesn't have the equipment...

or the expertise. There are thousands of companies who do work on infrastructure that would be well just put out of business and their employees let go.

Some ideas sound good on the surface but are unworkable. Certainly it would require a massive change in U.S. law to convert the U.S. Military into a government operated business to build infrastructure.

[elocs]

7. There you go again! In the "what if" game anything is possible.

Why worry about reality because reality has nothing to do with the "what if" game.

[Skidmore]

35. How is that so?

It seems to me that it is our military that has been tasked with building infrastructure and systems for other nations.

[Lorien]

19. Didn't you get the memo? Our new mantra is "WE CAN'T DO IT!!!!" No matter what it

is; ending wars, plugging a hole in the sea floor, affordable health care, ending unemployment, a living wage, stopping Monsanto, curbing climate change, saving public schools, the answer to EVERY problem is now "Be pragmatic! We CAN'T do ANYTHING about it!" It's a can't do Nation, so just sit back, shut up and enjoy the ride.

[uponit7771]

31. LOFL!!!

[SoCalDem]

33. "It's too hard"... whined like every 4 yr old ever born

That's the mantra

[rucky]

30. Exactly. Military people get re-assigned all the time.

why not an assignment that actually helps us for a change.

But the fear that cutting defense will lead to economic damage is real, since so much of our economy depends on defense contracts. Think of all the brainpower and money that goes to weapons technology. What if all - or even half - of those resources were used for renewable energy development instead?

[elocs]

4. Spoilsport! Now why would you want to throw cold water on a totally unrealistic idea

that will never happen? :shrug:

Why not only look on the good and positive side and not consider anything negative, like the Law of Unintended Consequences which tends to bite the shortsighted in the ass.

[Ozymanithrax]

6. I'm too old to be a Pollyanna. n/t

[peacebird]

8. That's too bad really. Pollyanna is one of my all time favorite movies

And while I readily acknowledge the original post can't happen, I think that we need to look outside the status quo to find solutions. Clearly bullying the world into following our policies is not working out too well for us, and we will soon follow the former Soviet Union into the toilet if we keep spending such a high percentage of our blood, treasure, and influence on poorly thought out military campaigns.

[Ozymanithrax]

9. What the U.S. needs to do, and what will happen anyway...

is divest itself of empire. We do not live in a vacuum, and every action we take has a consequence. The end of the U.S. empire (Hegemony if you like that word better) will lead to huge recessions and massive changes in our national culture. It will not be easy because empires do not collapse gently. I chose to address the what if PO with what would be some possible consequences of the action.

I liked the book better and it's first sequel better. They were thought of as girl's books when I was a kid, but I read them anyway and never told my friends.

[peacebird]

10. I was unaware there was a sequel to the first book, thank you - will look for it.

I think we may be in agreement about what needs to happen, or what *will* happen, just perhaps differ in the ways we'll get there...

[Ozymanithrax]

14. Pollyanna Grows Up (1915)

There were more, written by different authors.

When I was a kid in the early 60's, they had a shelf at the Blackwell Public libray along with the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew.

[peacebird]

11. thank you for such civil discourse, it is nice to discuss ideas. I get so tired of the screamers....

[Ozymanithrax]

15. If we don't think about public policy nobody else will. n/t

[L0oniX]

24. Indeed it will happen anyway. Russia was not a good enough example I guess.

I wonder why all the wise leaders here think we will escape Russia's demise for all its military spending. O yea ...capitalism will save us ...pffft

[RC]

20. It would not have to happen all at once.

First get out of Iraq's backup war, Afghanistan. That also means getting out of Afghanistan back up wars, Iran and Pakistan.
When that is done, work on removing our troops South America.
All the while that is going on, we need to work on the MIC and big business's war against the American people.

In order to do the above, we need to define the problem first. The problem is us, U.S. exploiting everybody and everything for money - Profits. People have value also. And not as slave labor either.

We as a country do not see that. We are the self serving cold blooded sociopath loose in this world. Yes we are. For example we kill, murder is better term, a suspected terrorist, we also kill the men, women and children around them.
We blow up houses in residential neighborhoods, vehicles on crowed, busy streets in the Middle Eastern cities, all from the safety of a room in California.

This isn't war, this is high tech murder. Far worse than a 9mm against rock throwers on the other side of the river.

We have a disinfected name for this type of murder. "Collateral damage". We as a nation just blow it off as "It's their fault. We are at war. They should not have been there..."

Well fellow DU'ers, they live there, we don't. We are the invaders in their country. They have not done us, U.S. any harm. The reverse cannot be said to be true.

Bring our troops home. Use the money saved to rebuild our country. To get our living wage jobs back. To take the welfare of our citizens in consideration for a change.

Allow the wronged countries to bring Nuremberg style trials of our war criminals. Only our own arrogance is stopping us
1984 is a book. A warning. We are ignoring that warning. That will be our own destruction.

Bring our troops home and close the over 700 military bases we have outside our borders around the world.

[L0oniX]

23. Our nation is dependant on killing. Nice.

[RC]

25. Why yes we are.

I glad someone else noticed.

[SunnySong]

27. England divested itself of an empire with little consequence a mild recession at home and a

couple of million dead foreigners. And they had an empire much longer and more embedded than America's bases.

[William Z. Foster]

40. nonsense

Your contention represents a misunderstanding of how things work. Jobs are not created by capital, that is the right wing position, and workers are not a burden or a cost. More workers means more prosperity, not less.

Corporations are waging an ongoing war against working class people with continual and massive dislocations.

After WWII far more military people were very quickly "dumped into the job market." Prosperity and productivity increased.

Your contention that bringing the SU military home would "lead to enormous international unrest" assumes that peace-keeping is what the US military is now doing. All evidence suggests that the opposite is true, and that the US military is protecting corporate interests which are in fact the source and root cause of much of the turmoil and violence around the world.

The domination of the world, for the sole purpose of protecting the interests of the very few, is the cause of massive recession, unemployment, and enormous international unrest. Those are the conditions we already have, and it is getting worse.

[harun]

12. I would love to see a candidate run and have this as their only priority

and they would do nothing else.

[Ozymanithrax]

16. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich both have touched on this...

The rest of Paul's ideas are unacceptable and Kucinich never managed to transition from a very vocal progressive base to a nationally accepted figure by a majority of the electorate.

Both of these gentlemen have a very vocal group of supporters who, never the less, are not large enough to get them nominated for President.

But all empires fall, and ours will be no exception. All we have to do is wait long enough.

[Octafish]

13. It'd be a new nation.

We'd be on our way to building a new world.

[amborin]

17. K&R

[mopinko]

18. what if, instead of blowing people up, we dug wells, built

schools, fed children, treated the sick, planted trees, etc (like the teenie, tiny, underfunded PEACE CORP) all around the world?
we might reap what we sow. hmm. i suspect we will be reaping what we are sowing now for generations.

[Lorien]

21. I guess we'd be a "Christian Nation" then

acting as Christ instructed us to, instead of doing the opposite in the name of Gawd and the sacred invisible hand of the Free Market.

[mopinko]

22. i have said many times that christianity really took off

when someone figured out how to sell killing in the name of jesus. would be something if the prince of peace was as popular as general jesus.

[Obamanaut]

26. A most wonderful idea. And consider this: closing the more than

700 military sites in the nearly 40 countries they are in would save a truckload of money in lease payments, transportation of personnel (and often families) and equipment back and forth.

Bring them home and spread them amongst the bases in the US that were downsized or closed. This would bring an immediate influx of $ to the local enonomies.

If it is determined there are too many on active duty, reduce the total via normal attrition as enlistments expire along with less vigorous recruiting efforts until the total is 'rightsized'.

We can use our defense department for defense, rather than policemen to the world.

[donheld]

28. I could once again be a proud American

[IOKIYAL]

29. What if we focused on reality and stop depressing ourselves with these fantasies?

liberals raise the bar space high and then get disappointed when legislation doesn't reflect their ideal.

stop it.

[unhappycamper]

32. With the "liberals" we have in Congress, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8649085

[2Design]

34. all the war mongers would be out of work and would not allow out congress to do that

[Bigmack]

36. Read "The Complex...

How the Military Invades Our Everyday Lives" by Nick Turse

The waste is enormous.

The insidious invasion of the civilian sector is scary.

The dependance of the economy on the military is total.

We are a dying Empire.

How fast we actually die is up for discussion, but the outcome is a foregone conclusion.

[area51]

37. +1

Indeed, why not bring the troops home, offer them employment in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, and offer them training in the medical professions, and begin a transition to single-payer health care? When health care is a basic human right, we're going to need a lot more medical personnel. Hell, we already need them.

Each day, 273 people die due to lack of health care in the U.S.

We need single-payer health care, not a welfare bailout for the serial-killer insurance agencies.

[Swamp Rat]

38. I'm all for it

But the We the People no longer control our government - the corporations do.

[ItNerd4life]

39. Because N. Korea would probably attack S. Korea

and we would probably have WW3. We used to not have troops stationed overseas and we got WW1 and WW2.