Anyone notice how Tea Party Candidates do things?

[SargeUNN]

How many Tea Party Candidates are running not as Republicans, but as Tea Party? Do you notice they all run in Republican Primaries but so far none are known to be running against Republicans in the General Elections? Meanwhile what are we doing? We have those who run in the General as Green or some other party candidates in the General making sure people who would vote for a Democratic Candidate instead votes for the Green Party, or other party candidate, and guess who wins then. I think we as Progressives will realize to disagree is fine, but when we kill off a candidate in the General Election that will do more of what we want to get a Republican that is certainly not going to do anything we want, then we are feeding the beast, which in turns means we actually are supporting the Republican.

I think we need to realize that we can be our own worse enemy. Do you think McCain would have passed anything that would have helped the ordinary citizen in healthcare or any of the issues where we got some progress? I ask that we look realistically not fall into the dream is best no matter how unlikely it is to become reality.

[izquierdista]

1. Will Rogers noticed it 80 years ago

"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

Somehow, that authoritarian bent of conservatives serves them well when it is time to STFU and close ranks.

[SargeUNN]

2. to the one who unrec this thread, sorry you don't get it

I am a Katrina Survivor who suffered at the hands of Repukes and almost lost my life fighting them. I saw the horrors first hand and when I see people who vote for a candidate of some party that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning in a general election and see a Repuke get in because of it (happened here in Arizona when Jackie Thrasher barely lost re-election due to a Green Party Candidate who was actually a Republican plant to stop Thrasher) and what as a horrid Repuke gets elected and supports stupid stuff like SB1070 I wonder why we think dreams trump reality. Dreams that can become reality are fine, but to refuse what progress can be made is also killing the dream in the long run.

[gristy]

3. I unrec'd it too

But only to piss you off. :P

[SargeUNN]

7. lol

I don't get pissed off about stuff here. I realize there are right wingers and those who just want something to gripe about. There is a guy here in Phoenix that is constantly pissed and once when he couldn't find anything to be pissed at he just griped that he didn't have anything to be pissed about. Those kind are just a waste and I don't get pissed at them because frankly they aren't worth the time.

[patrice]

6. 1+~

:hi:

[Cresent City Kid]

8. It sucks, but you're right, little or no progress beats regress

President Gore may not have delivered a left wing utopia any more than Obama, but I would have rather watched him fail to raise taxes on the top 10% than the rubber stamping of cuts that led to where we are today. This is only one issue, the Reagan philosophy was made manifest more completely than in old Ronnie's term. If you're being dragged off a cliff, reversing direction is ideal, you stop if you can't reverse direction, and you slow down if you can't stop.

[lunatica]

4. Huh!

What is your point?

[patrice]

5. Zero-sum thinking is crippling! We MUST learn how to be clear & strong for our own values AND stay

involved with those with whom we may have some differences but DO share at least some fundamentals; we must learn to work FOR the goals we share and work TOWARD the ones that we could share and to be HONEST and unafraid about the goals that we dispute.

[KonaKane]

9. Thank you. You get it.

We are individualistic in our views, to a fault. There comes a time we have to pull together to affect SOME good even if we cannot have it all. Even if it means aligning with a big party that we do not agree with in all issues.

It's really sad to see that the "Solidarnosc" concept had so thoroughly missed so many people here.

[Tesha]

10. Strangely, though, the same advice doesn't seem to hold when it's the Progressive who wins...

...the Primary.

As you'll recall, in Connecticut in 2006, we pushed Ned Lamont, the
clearly more-left candidate to a primary victory in the Democratic
Primary, but major pieces of the Democratic Party machine abandoned
*THE NOMINATED DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE* and supported Joe
Lieberman instead.

This includes the currently-sitting President of the United States
as well as quote a few sitting "Democratic" Senators.

Let me know when the Right wing of our party is willing to take a
loyalty oath; then I'll consider taking one too.

Tesha

[SargeUNN]

11. so what you are saying is

that we know Repukes will be against us on almost all issues (if not on all) and we would rather have them than ones who will be with us on many issues? Some how that logic escapes me as being productive.

[Fumesucker]

12. The point being that the individual has no means of leverage on a politician

Other than the threat of withholding their vote..

And threats are useless unless you are willing to carry them out in the end.

Until progressives simply stop voting for right wing DINOS, the DINOS will continue to drift to the right since there is no penalty to them for doing so.

If you give a politician your vote even though you know they are going to turn around and stab you in the back then not only will you get stabbed in the back, you will *deserve* being stabbed in the back.

[SargeUNN]

13. sorry to tell you but

I did progressive talk for over 3 years and the one constant problem was the lack of Progressives following up. I would ask them to make calls only to find out one out of every 20 or so would do it. When we went listener supported we turned up having to cease operations because our Progressive listeners who could (I realize some couldn't but would have) refused to support us with excuses like you show us you have the right amount of listeners we will be glad to support you. Another excuse was yeah we will be glad to give you the list of businesses to contact who are Democrats but never got delivered while they griped about how sorry the current station is doing in getting out their events and candidates. We Progressives are often our own worse enemy.

[Fumesucker]

16. And that failing is limited to strictly progressives?

I don't think so, that's a common human foible.

But not voting for a politician is an easy and quick way to register a protest and punish the politician at the same time.

[SargeUNN]

17. hummm maybe I should follow that for Gov. of AZ race

since I don't care for everything Terry Goddard has done although he is far away better than Jan Brewer, I will register my protest and not vote for Goddard thus allowing possibly Jan Brewer to retain the office so we can have more stuff like SB1070, cut children healthcare, close state parks, cut social programs. That will show Goddard. Yabetcha, and just hope like hell I can survive it all.

[Fumesucker]

18. Interesting that you didn't answer my question..

But rather took off on a remarkable tangent that has nothing to do with my post to which you were ostensibly replying.

So, how *does* the average citizen influence a politician?

Or should we just admit that we have no control at all over what they do?

[SargeUNN]

20. here is your answer

If you had heard just one of my radio shows over the last 3 years and 2 months you would know what my answer is. I always closed my show with the words "change only begins with you". You have to do whatever you can to get better candidates in races, support them every way you can, try to move up in your local party. The more you get involved with a candidate the more you have input. When you don't have a candidate you are excited about still pick the one closes to you that can do something and try to get involved enough to get your voice heard. To vote for a Green Party candidate most of the time is a vote for the Republican because they usually aren't serious candidates and drain support for the candidate closer to what we progressives want. To expect perfection is not realistic but to try and move closer to it is better. You take a journey you have to travel the route not just beam yourself to the destination. If you keep trying to improve the quality you might actually get that candidate of your dream.

I coached and often I would take a program way down, have to settle with bad talent and suffer losses but as time went on I was able to improve the talent and turn out a championship team. I am a Saints fan since even before they existed, and suffered for 20 years without seeing them have a winning season. When we did finally have a winning season other Saints fans were upset because they failed to get to the Super Bowl and the team went down. Sean Payton came on took the team to the NFC Championship his first year and lost that game. Many wanted him fired when the next 2 seasons the Saints didn't even make the playoffs and before last season were ready to fire him, until the Saints won the Super Bowl. We have to work for better but we have to be willing to make the trip.

[Tesha]

19. It's funny you feel that way.

During the 2006 and 2008 election cycles here in NH, it seemed to
me then when it came time to the actual WORK (you know, making
calls, walking the wards, doing visibility, and such like), it was ONLY
the progressives doing the work. The more DLC-like portions of
our party (including most of the state and local leadership and
many of the local candidates we were also working on behalf of)
seemed like they never showed up except to partake in their
victory parties.

Tesha

[Tesha]

14. For far too long, I've been holding m nose and voting for awful candidates because...

...they're "not Republicans". But when time came to return the
favor, the folks who had been the awful candidates turned
around and supported the Not-Democrat Joe Lieberman over
the Actual-Democrat Ned Lamont.

So, sorry, I'm done voting for awful candidates just because
they have a "D" after their names. The steady march to the
right that has been a result of supporting these candidates
has completely destroyed the Democratic brand to the point
that the voters can no longer clearly enunciate the differences
between the Democratic platform (and candidates) and the
Republican platform (and candidates).

From now on, I want to vote for candidates who support
Democratic (and democratic) values.

Tesha

[SargeUNN]

15. well I understand that but

until progressives unite and make their voices more powerful that is what is most likely. Like I said above about progressive radio, we gripe about the right owning it and yet we don't support those progressives out there. I am sick of those griping about not enough progressive talk but when it comes time for them to do something about it they are full of excuses not to do so. How do we expect to change anything when we can't even support our own.