My daughter's t-shirt at basketball camp.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

So some local Baptist church was putting on a basketball camp locally (2 weeks long, 4 days/week). My daughter (9 years old) loves playing basketball and really wanted just to get some playing in with someone other than her old man. So I signed her up. I told her to put on a t-shirt under her tank-top jersey (I didn't know if they'd freak out) if her nipples showed for a brief moment if she lifted her arms. So she obliged. Being the good kid she is, she actually put on a churchy sort of shirt, thinking she'd try to fit in: "When Jesus said to love your enemies, he probably meant you shouldn't kill them."

So the kids are warming up, dribbling exercises, defense, lay-ups. Then comes time for a pick-up game. It turns out the church had jerseys. So the teams were broken up into jerseys and t-shirts. It turned out that my daughter was on the t-shirt team . . . for about 45 seconds. The ref./pastor took one look at her shirt, and put her on the jersey team. Now, I thought maybe it was a coincidence; I thought I saw him look right at her t-shirt and read it and then asked her to go over to jerseys. But maybe I was looking to be a victim at the hand of Baptists. I wouldn't put it past me to be so shallow.

No. After practice, he gave me an earful. It was made clear that this was a house of the Lord and that sort of "crap" wouldn't be tolerated. His son is in the Marines and in Iraq, so I and my daughter should show a little respect. I apologized for offending him (it's his church after all). But then I asked, in all seriousness, "So, then, pastor, since you went to seminary, what do YOU think it means that we're asked to love our enemies?" I wasn't being hostile but sincere. The question was met with silence and anger, so i let it go. I'm going to ask again at the next practice. I apologized again and thanked him for the basketball camp. It's been a great camp. It's a nice mixture of competitiveness and love of the game. No asshole parents (present party not included).

So THE question for my fellow DUers: should my daughter wear an Artest or Iverson jersey to the next (and final) meeting? Or do I go completely off the board and break out the Miroslav Satan t-shirt (Hockey)?

[gateley]

1. Let your daughter decide if she even wants to be involved. At that age, it can

be painful not being part of the crowd, even if it's a crowd of whacks.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

7. I preferred she not go.

But she likes the camp a lot. We went to one last year put on by the city, and it sucked.

Like I said, the kids there are great. Even the pastor seems to be a good guy--unless your Jesus doesn't conform with his. My daughter doesn't like to ruffle feathers, and she didn't know that he objected to her t-shirt. She would have felt really bad. The next time she tried to wear it, I got her to wear something else . . . a "Jesus loves Pornstars" t-shirt.

Kidding. But that would have been awesome.

[gateley]

13. Bwah! But I have no doubt you've got the 'pornstar' tee in your wardrobe!

I bet you're a wonderful dad - she's a lucky girl! :pals:

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

22. It only comes out on the holidays.

Truly a prized possession.

[griffi94]

2. let your daughter wear whatever shirt she wants to play in.

while i would probly go to great lengths to get the pastor talking so i could pull a gotcha at the first available chance, try to remember it's about your daughter and her love of basketball.

[Taverner]

3. "We'll have none of this Jesus talk! This is a church, hear!"

[KonaKane]

25. "Gentlemen, there will be no fighting. This is the War Room."

- Dr. Strangelove.

[Taverner]

96. There are many precepts which are debatable whether Jesus said them or not

Its debatable whether Jesus was one person, or an amalgam of previous "messiahs," both Egyptian, Greek and Persian.

However, Pacifism is not debatable. Every gospel has had pacifism as a major precept. That, and living an austere lifestyle, giving money to the poor.

[BeFree]

4. Love your enemies?

What kind of whacked idea is that?
You're lucky you weren't taken out back and beaten the love into you.

[bhikkhu]

115. Like "Thou Shalt not Kill" -

who ever thought that one would fly?

[lpbk2713]

5. I'd guess this would be out of the question then ...

Link: http://www.cafepress.com/du_store.21464069


IMO that guy over reacted FWIW.

[onethatcares]

6. next time use the Beatitude shirt.

Blessed be the Peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

If he can't handle that, where a "Let God sort them out" the next time.

Peace.

Edited to add the Beatitude and some smarky language.

[enough]

8. I have no answer for your question, dear ithinkmyliverhurts, but this is a truly

fantastic story. It could have happened here where I live in SE PA. What part of the country did this happen?

Hope others will have good advice on the jersey for the next meeting.

[elehhhhna]

9. I'd go with the rainbow flag.

[gratuitous]

10. I know the woman who wrote that song

And she'd explain her lyric to the pastor in terms he could understand. Linda K. Williams is the kind of woman who's been advocating for peace and battling the forces of violence for a long time. Mrs. gratuitous and I have the shirts, the bumper sticker on the car, and I'm hoping to see Linda again next week at the Church of the Brethren Annual Conference in Pittsburgh.

For your daughter's sake, it's probably best not to push it, but I have to say that some pastors can go through seminary, continuing education, and even their entire careers and still not quite "get it."

[Fumesucker]

11. That shirt was all New Testamenty and stuff..

Baptists basically don't do the New Testament, they're all about Leviticus and smiting this and smiting that.

[SunnySong]

65. Wouldn't that make them Jews? nt

[Fumesucker]

68. There's no stronger supporters of Israel than Southern Baptists..

Try and find something from the Gospels that Baptists really believe in aside from "praise Jeezus ahm saved"..

Baptists may believe in Jesus but they damn sure don't listen to His message, all that sissy "pray in the closet" and "turn the other cheek" crap.

[demtenjeep]

12. get her a Rodman Bulls jersey

hehe

[madrchsod]

14. "...cannibal christians...they suffer so..."

[rucky]

15. I'm thinkin' that graphic you have on your sigline

oughta do the trick.

[bluestateguy]

16. Southern Baptist evangelicals love killing non-white, non-Christians

They are every bit as violent as the worst Muslim terrorists. The difference? Southern Baptists have government actors to do their killing for them.

[mzteris]

17. way back when I still "believed"

I was playing "You've Got a Friend" at a church youth banquet (I said WAY BACK) - and the pastor made me turn that "sinful music off".

:eyes:

[FormerDittoHead]

64. Wow. Brings a new dimension to "They'll be no dancing in this town!" n/t

ref: Footloose.

[Art_from_Ark]

111. I remember that song

but I had to go back and check on the lyrics. I can't believe that song could be controversial with anyone. Sounds like your pastor had some issues

[malaise]

18. Doesn't the YMCA have a basketball camp

I wouldn't let my cats hang out with Fundies.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

19. Oh, goodness, we don't have a YMCA within 50 miles of us.

We's in rural country.

[yawnmaster]

20. I would have a problem with you using your daughter as a tool...

just let her play. do you have to stay there with her?
If you don't like the group, find another. IMHO putting her in the middle is wrong.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

21. I'm not putting her in the middle of anything.

She chose the t-shirt. I didn't even look at it until we got there and really thought nothing of it. I figured protestants do, well, whatever, I don't know. Her ehart was in the right place. She was going to a church group and put on a churchy thing. If we were going to play with a bunch of Randians, she'd put on her Atlas Hugs t-shirt. She just wants to play. And I agree with her. I don't like or dislike the group. Did you read my OP or my other posts? I believe I indicated that the pastor was actually a good guy. The parents were all nice. The kids were great. My daughter never knew there was a problem.

[seabeyond]

23. you used jesus for a political statement, put daughter in a peer environment, in a church

with a tshirt that was absolutely meant to be confrontational. the minister's son is in the military and you dont "get" what the problem is.

hey, i am not into religion either. i am into respect. i have never been a part of baptist religion until i moved to texas. it was a whole other world of learning for me. but what i did get, was being respectful and not being respectful. and what i insisted with my boys was, though we may not agree with them, being a part of their group, we had a responsibility to disagree with respect. always respect. or we didn't participate.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

24. Uhh, I think you should read my posts in this thread. And if you have,

you should reread them. And if you've reread them, uhh, well, you should go punch your second grade teacher in the face.

[seabeyond]

26. uhhh, i did read your op. you are saying it is now required that i read all your comments

since, before i am allowed to respond to your op?

"should my daughter wear an Artest or Iverson jersey to the next (and final) meeting? Or do I go completely off the board and break out the Miroslav Satan t-shirt (Hockey)?"

i dont know what any of this is. is it to bother the people at this church basketball team even more?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

30. Good goddess, that was a joke. Sheesh.

Look at the CAPS on THE question.

I've admitted that these are good people. I admitted that I apologized to the coach. I've admitted that the parents and the kids are great. There was no intention of being confrontational. My kid thought she was doing the Jesus thing. I've continued going to the camp and have had no problem.

But you may continue to lecture as you see fit.

And, yes, I usually read the OP's other posts in the thread for further clarification--lest I make an ass of myself (which is really second nature to me) of not getting the whole context.

Ready for this: I think these Baptists are good people. I think the pastor was just defending his son. I think he's wrong/stupid, but I admire loyalty for one's kin. So I like the guy.

[seabeyond]

31. you created this thread to scorn and sneer at a religion and this environment

you placed your daughter.

good kids. good families. good pastor. daughter enjoying it.

but really, you want duers to sit here and sneer at these people.

and we are pointing the finger at them?

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

34. Yes, sneer at the people I've called good.

Great kids. Great parents. Pastor defending his son who is off at war. He probably feels guilty and uncomfortable. I would. I'd hate to be a pastor preaching peace and have a son off at war. It would make me uncomfortable. Which is why I dissuaded my daughter from wearing the t-shirt again. But you'd know this if you read my other posts in the thread.

[JoeyT]

60. I wouldn't worry about it overly much.

That poster has a "New Atheists are trying to destroy religion!" seizure any time religion of any kind is mentioned in any context.
I imagine they're real fun to be around IRL.

"I don't bel..." "You're trying to oppress Christians! Why do you have to be so hateful?!" "Well, I was going to say 'I don't believe I want Italian for lunch', but never mind."

[seabeyond]

63. prove it. ALL the time? give me one. just one joeyt. shouldnt be hard

with your "all the time" crap.

"any time religion of any kind is mentioned in any context"

any time, any kind, any context. prove it.

oh wait... you cant

hey, all the religious threads are gathered for you in one little room. religious room. you should be able to find all those many many many posts your are suggesting i make any time, any kind, any context, right in that room

lets see it

[Alcibiades]

39. Good Baptists?

Sorry, but no: if he were good, he wouldn't have come at you like that. He couldn't have been defending his son, because his son wasn't attacked. A good person wouldn't be so ready to assume the worst about people, and project their own anger and hatred onto them.

I've known plenty of Baptists, of every stripe. I'd never hand either of my children over to any of them, even for a minute. It's not like this is a nice guy who had a slip up: it's more like the veneer slipped off, and he showed you who he truly is.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

41. I don't think so.

He was protecting his son. I think he felt a guilty reason to protect him. And this can speak both to good and ill. The good is that he sees something about which to pause, to feel hesitation, guilt; the ill is that he tries preaches contrary to the Gospel and probably realizes it--or, at the very least, desires that no one offer a different reading than his own (ironic that he desires to be his own Pope, eh?). He was a good guy, very patient with the kids, taught them to love the game, to enjoy every moment. I loved the fact that defense was the primary focus of the camp. Winning and losing never crossed his lips.

[Alcibiades]

58. That's one of the problems with American Protestantism

or, at least, many branches of it: the commitment to individual conscience has made an authority, often on a very slender basis, of every pastor, while at the same time not preventing the rise of a theological-political orthodoxy that seeks to do away with every nuance, and which will harbor no contradiction. Whatever problems I have with the Catholic Church, they have at least attempted to thoughtfully craft a consistent "pro-life" position, one that does not recast Jesus as a warrior or exult the death penalty and militarism while decrying abortion. There are so many Protestant denominations, and so many seminaries and theological schools of such varying quality, some of which may not be terribly thoughtful places, so that, as you say, each minister becomes his own pope, albeit one without the intellectual resources of the Jesuits at his disposal.

[seabeyond]

28. so i read one of your first replies above.

Like I said, the kids there are great. Even the pastor seems to be a good guy--unless your Jesus doesn't conform with his. My daughter doesn't like to ruffle feathers, and she didn't know that he objected to her t-shirt. She would have felt really bad. The next time she tried to wear it, I got her to wear something else . . . a "Jesus loves Pornstars" t-shirt.

Kidding. But that would have been awesome.


all the kids were great. the pastor seems like a good guy. your daughter enjoyed the team

it isnt about one jesus not conforming to another. his son is in the military and you dissed his son
pornstar? ya, respect. it is all over in your posts
it wasnt your daughters job to know about ruffling feathers, that was your job. you should have known it was objectionable

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

33. I'm not Baptist. I assumed most Christians wouldn't have a problem with the sentiment.

For fuck's sake, MLK was raised in a Baptist family.

I say nothing ill of other faiths in my house. My child learns to love and to respect until she's old enough to mock with some sense of intelligence.

I'm not sure how I dissed his son. Could you explain? I know he assumed that the implication that his son is sinning by engaging in war was an attack, but it is within Christian theology to believe so. MLK would say so.

Also, I didn't really pay attention to which t-shirt she had on until we were in the car and on our way. And I still didn't think it would be objectionable TO A CHRISTIAN PASTOR. Nor did I know he'd be reffing. He took offense because he believed his son was being implicated. And his son was being implicated, but that was not my intention.

Again, I apologized and left it at that. Did I want to engage in debate? Yes. Did I want to give her the "Jesus loves pornstars" t-shirt? Yes. Did I do any of these things? No.

I think Christians play the victim card far too often. And, quite honestly, Christians have a lot of nerve playing it when defending war. When Peter cut the ear off the soldier, Christ healed the ear of the man who was taking him off unjustly to his death. There's your Gospel. My daughter gets it. And can shoot a mean turn-around 15 footer. And boxes out automatically--as naturally as breathing.

[noamnety]

81. This is a powerful statement:

"Christians have a lot of nerve playing (the victim card) when defending war"

I know the question in the OP was asked tongue in cheek even though that obviously went over some people's heads here and led to the regrettable pile-on. But even though if they erroneously took you seriously, this is so much like the McChrystal problem to me, when the outrage isn't over the fact that we're killing civilians overseas, but instead that a child wore a shirt that criticized that policy.

I tend to read these threads with the knowledge that DU is a large forum and it's possible that someone reading it is an Iraqi or Afghan who's lost someone in the war. And I try to imagine what these reactions would read like to them. We drop a bomb on someone's house - crickets. A child wears a shirt critical of that action and someone happens to see it who's got a relative taking part in the occupation - outrage.

[Angry Dragon]

104. Your daughter has a good father

edit: You also could be a good mother, my heading could be just showing my bias

[Occulus]

48. You are not making any sense at all.

"one jesus not conforming to another"

Seriously? You think that there are two Jesuses, whose words are to be interpreted differently?

Which Bible did you find that in?

[seabeyond]

62. "unless your Jesus doesn't conform with his"

she said this is why the pastor was mad. i would suggest that is not why pastor was mad. but the jab at his son in military per the statement on tshirt, that made the pastor mad.

[TransitJohn]

40. snarf

You're into respect alright, bigtime.

[spanone]

71. point missed

by a mile

[seabeyond]

72. not point missed. simply i didnt jump on bandwagon attacking this org.

i see it as an opportunity for the PARENT to teach the child something on respect adn getting along and i think the parent failed.

i dont ALWAYS see it the ops way. or fellow duers.

[spanone]

75. the pastor should have embraced the words on that tee shirt

i think the pastor failed miserably

[seabeyond]

78. the pastor should have embraced a political statement per jesus (which du yells about religiously)

that was a hit at the military?

well, he didnt. and he didnt go after daughter, now did he. he didnt use daughter with anger either. the people, kids and pastor gracious to daughter. he addressed the parent, as should be done. and the parent tried to continue with the "innocent" question instead of just saying, wont happen again, and looked like the kids had fun. cool

[Greyhound]

80. When did cultural suppression become a matter of 'respect'?

I can't think of a more appropriate, truthful message than 'loving people means not murdering them' for a Christian church.

Everyone is entitles to their opinion, but it doesn't follow that all opinions are equal.

[Brickbat]

27. I'd let her wear whatever t-shirt she wanted, and I wouldn't suggest any.

[rug]

29. Just kick him in the nuts.

Twice.

Then take your daughter out for ice cream.

[alfredo]

32. Wear a "Please Jesus, Protect Me From Your Followers" Tee.

[noamnety]

35. I'm not a good one to ask because I'd be one of the asshole parents.

I'd make a new t-shirt for the next meeting that says "When Jesus said to love your enemies, he probably meant you should kill them."

[lynne]

36. She's 9. Let her wear a plain t-shirt as most 9 year olds don't want -

- to be a source of conflict. However, YOU should wear any shirt you desire.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

38. She chose the shirt so as not to be conflictual.

Again, she thought she was being Jesusy/churchy. I didn't tell her to wear it. I thought I was being a good parent by having her protect exposing her nipples (though I couldn't care less; she's NINE). She wore what she thought was a church shirt. Had I seen it, I probably would have tried to get her to wear something else. But that would have brought a bunch of questions from her: like, first, "well, what's wrong with the t-shirt." Yeah, how do I explain that? "Well, you see honey, when Jesus said to love your enemies, we now have certain categories to which that does not apply. Sure, He meant the very people who were going to mercilessly crucify Him ("Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"), but we now have a better scoio-political idea of whom he really meant." I'm supposed to defend NOT loving your enemies KILLING them? That's kind of involved for a 9-year old. So I take the simple approach and just go with what He said, you know? I try to teach my kid basic logic and a bit of a pacifistic spirit (call it love, if you will), and so I try not to point out the negative in those who don't participate. I just let things slide outwardly--though inwardly I rant and rave. And the inward sometimes finds itself manifested here.

[Arugula Latte]

37. Ooh Ohh! Go with the Satan shirt.

I will revere you as a god if you do.

[tuvor]

42. Wear your own damn shirt if you want to make a point.

Leave your daughter out of it.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

43. Uhh, I think you should read my posts in this thread. And if you have,

you should reread them. And if you've reread them, uhh, well, you should go punch your second grade teacher in the face.

[tuvor]

44. Uhh, I think you shoud quit changing the rules when someone does as you ask.

Ahem:

"THE question for my fellow DUers: should my daughter wear an Artest or Iverson jersey to the next (and final) meeting? Or do I go completely off the board and break out the Miroslav Satan t-shirt (Hockey)?"

I shouldn't have to read all of your other posts in this thread in order to reply to your OP. After all, your OP contained THE question.

To complain that I didn't read your other posts before replying to THE question is tanatamount to moving the goalposts.

G'nite.

[Obamanaut]

54. +1 nt

[immoderate]

82. Maybe "read with understanding" was required.

Did you think that was a serious question?

--imm

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

88. I thought the joke was obvious, but I had to explain it elsewhere in the thread.

My bad, I suppose.

But, yeah, it seems that people can be selective readers.

[immoderate]

97. I think some are born without the sarcasm gene.

I teach computer apps to adults. Sometimes I say, "I used to be a middle school math teacher. Now, I'm in a witness protection program." Sometimes people will ask me if I'm allowed to tell that I'm in a witness protection program.

I tell them to "look up sarcasm, which was invented in Brooklyn by Leo Gorcey is 1932."

--imm

[orleans]

45. i think the pastor is being a dick by saying that the shirt your daughter

picked out to wear was crap.
fuck him.
did you even know his kid is in the war?
he climbed onto your shit and started trouble with you--assuming you or your daughter were trying to piss him off or offend him or offend his marine. he's got a guilty conscience because he knows he's a hypocrite.
his house of the lord doesn't "tolerate" a nine year olds choice in t-shirt garb? please!
i'd keep my daughter away from him.
this was better than the city basketball camp? well, there's the trade off. if your daughter being around and exposed to someone like that is worth it to you then stay there. i wouldn't. i'd be concerned his "zero tolerance" policy would seep out in other ways--especially now that he's all worked up over that shirt.

[saigon68]

59. Yes Fuck that Holy Poseur

This is whats wrong with amerika

KILL a Rag-Head for Jesus

[a la izquierda]

66. Yeah, he's getting irritated with a kid

who wore a shirt. Nice pastor.

What a moron. Sorry, I'm not exactly tolerant of hate-based religions (I live in the middle of Baptist country). You preach hate of homosexuality and denial of women's rights, and you can fuck right off in my book. I don't care if you're a pastor or a member of government, or from a "good family." I'm happy I don't have kids, because I wouldn't be able to stomach exposing them to anyone who believes an ideology that would teach them to hate their grandmother or uncle.

[BlueCollar]

46. just had to K&R this thread...n/t

[Skip Intro]

47. Why would you use a 9 year old girl to taunt a priest who believes differently than you do?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's all just kinda assholish.

[Occulus]

49. Reread the OP.

Really, the reading comprehension around here frankly sucks ass of late:

"Being the good kid she is, she actually put on a churchy sort of shirt"

SHE PUT ON. Not "I picked out".

Holy Christ. Literally.

[Lorien]

83. You're assuming that all Baptists don't read the new testament

I know a few Baptists who would strongly agree with the T-shirt because that is, in fact, what Jesus told His followers to do. Plus, the GIRL chose the shirt!

[unhappycamper]

50. Congratulations ithinkmyliverhurts!

You have a daughter who actually thinks. How refreshing.

[Codeine]

51. Stick your kid in a fundie Jesus-freak environment

and then act all surprised when they act like fundie Jesus-freaks? You used your kid to make a statement, which is just silly.

[cameozalaznick]

85. The KID PICKED the t-shirt

It's stated in the OP. It's been re-iterated all through the thread. The parent did not "use the kid to make a political statement."

[Codeine]

91. I don't buy that. nt

[chillspike]

52. Why isn't your kid in a nice liberal camp?

Like the kind you see in the movies "Meatballs" or "Wet Hot American Summer"?

[SunnySong]

70. I went to a nice liberal camp. (everthing had an indian name) and I assure

you it was more Friday the 13th then Wet Hot American Summer...

[Obamanaut]

53. Plain tee shirts are still available, and they usually don't offend anyone. nt

[The Wizard]

55. I'd go with

a New Jersey Devils shirt with Satan on the back.

[blueamy66]

56. I'd pull her out of that league

and find another one.

Yes, throw a Satan jersey on her next time.

Holy hell....religion is outta control.

[Renew Deal]

57. Interesting problem....

I think the Jesus shirt you chose could be considered too much for 9 year olds, even if the message of a religious nature. It seems like you were looking for a confrontation. Next time send her in an Artest shirt. He just won the NBA championship and the irony would be hilarious.

[cameozalaznick]

86. THE KID PICKED THE T-SHIRT!!!!!

Honestly... Can't anyone read around here?

[Codeine]

92. If she did

(which I am not convinced is the actual story) then her mother had the responsibility to tell her to put on a different one. she didn't because she wanted to see a reaction and make a statement.

[seabeyond]

93. how i am seeing it. nt

[cameozalaznick]

100. What are you?

The thought police? How do you know that? The OP stated that the kid picked the t-shirt and the parent didn't see it until they were in the car. Why are you assuming the OP is lying?

[seabeyond]

102. one can actually use the OP's words.

But then I asked, in all seriousness, "So, then, pastor, since you went to seminary, what do YOU think it means that we're asked to love our enemies?" I wasn't being hostile but sincere. The question was met with silence and anger, so i let it go. I'm going to ask again at the next practice. I apologized again and thanked him for the basketball camp. It's been a great camp. It's a nice mixture of competitiveness and love of the game. No asshole parents (present party not included).


the question was met with silence and anger.... i am going to ask again next practice
no asshole parents, present party not included

[cameozalaznick]

105. that's not exactly evidence of malice aforethought. eom

[seabeyond]

107. what it shows is the op was purposely and nonapologetically confrontational

with no remorse what so ever.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

108. I actually kept rereading my posts in good faith.

But then I realized, maybe she just doesn't comprehend: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8646273

Reread my post the way in which you thoughtfully, charitably, reread that bumper sticker. And then, if all else fails, remember this: you admitted that you misread a bumper sticker. Maybe, just maybe, you're misreading me.

And if not, well, good on ya. No hard feelings.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

101. Nietzsche: "I allow myself to be lied to so that I'm not always on the lookout for liars."

You ought to try it; it's really liberating. It's also called charity in some places--and charity, I'm told, is from the Latin caritas, which means "love" (I think in Greek it's "agape"). So you ought to try a showing just little love, just a little. At least this is what the Baptist basketball camp taught me. :)

[Ichingcarpenter]

61. Nominated but I don't think you are playing cricket

wink, wink, nod, nod.....maybe only brits will get that one.

I vote for Satan.

On edit.... I looked at over 1200 views so it was worth? my time.

[harun]

67. I think you did good.

[spanone]

69. 'pastor' puts his politics over his religion

[Lorien]

84. +1. His faith lost out to his hate.

[SoxFan]

73. Have her wear this one!

[Seneca]

74. A Ron Artest Lakers jersey

No question. :-)

You can't reason with Baptists. You caused a lifetime's supply of cognitive dissonance with that t-shirt, lol. They are into the apostles and the requisite anti-woman/anti-gay teachings they provide. Don't be quoting that dirty hippie Jesus to them!

[Lucian]

76. The pastor is a hypocrite.

If he's getting worked up over a Jesus teaching shirt, then he's guilty of not abiding by Jesus's teachings.

[southernyankeebelle]

77. Let your daughter make the decision. At the end of the game if she wants to put the shirt on than

let her. I am a wife of a retired military soldier. I wouldn't have taken offense to the shirt because it is a true question to ask. I don't understand why the pastor didn't turn the other cheek. He was afraid of the truth plan and simple.

[habitual]

79. even dumb ol me would realize that a shirt with that

saying on it would cause waves at a christian org function.

it's just too easy to say 'i had no idea, i'm not a baptist!' nonsense. you are an adult.

sure she picked it out, but you coulda explained to her that it might not be appropriate to wear a shirt that clearly is attempting to show christians their own hypocrisy.

ya, you didn't know..... hahaha you should go punch your 8th grade teacher in the face!

:)

[tammywammy]

89. +1 n/t

[nonconformist]

103. +1

I have kids, and they don't have any shirts that I didn't buy for them, hang in their closet/put in a drawer and I don't think they've ever left with me going somewhere when I didn't notice what they were wearing (eg. that shirt has a stain, please go change).

I must be odd!

[seabeyond]

106. I must be odd!

nope. was thinkin the same thing.

[deaniac21]

87. You should absolutely teach her to be an ass!

[Divine Discontent]

90. love the story. I would just let her do her own activism (if she wants to make a statement, good!)

and I laughed heartily at your Miroslav joke at the end - could you just imagine them seeing a "Satan" jersey on her? 5 year or so ago when he came around I thought, do they actually say it that way! Fortunately, they say, Suh-tahn. Hah.

Anyhow, I commend your activist mindset.

Thou shall not kill. And in regards to warfare death. I believe an invading army that is invading a country where the people of that country are not invading our own.... and we go there and death happens??? That's breaking that commandment.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GoneOffShore]

98. I think you forgot the sarcasm icon.

Because if you didn't you obviously didn't read the OP with any comprehension.

[chaska]

95. Religion = war. Both are about conquering and control.

[GoneOffShore]

99. You did the right thing.

Your daughter is going to grow up with a good skeptical mind and not accept the crap that she's handed.

If she wants to wear the t-shirt, let her. If she doesn't then that's fine too.

The pastor is a dick - And if you can manage it, start up a rival basketball camp next summer.

(edited for inappropriate apostrophe usage)

[Saboburns]

109. Don't you ever apologize for standing up for peace

The actions of this 'minister' show how far from the path that Jesus laid it's tragic.

That so many Christians want to kill Muslims is sickening in so many regards.

IMHO don't ever apologize for things like this in the future.

He was wrong, not you or your daughter.

[nini]

110. Artest

Definitely Artest :D

[Taitertots]

112. Seems like a weird attitude for someone whose messiah walked willingly to crucifixion.

Who said the meek shall inherit the earth.
Who told people to love their enemies.

[CLANG]

113. Go with the flow...

Unless you are prepared to be involved in some bullshit lawsuit, I would just take the high road.

[ohheckyeah]

114. Here's one for him:

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matt. 5:38-39