Vegetarians Are Happier Than Meat-Eaters

[kpete]

http://www.nutritionj.com/


Vegetarians Are Happier Than Meat-Eaters
A new study in Nutrition Journal finds vegetarians have lower incidence of depression, anxiety, and other mood problems than their meat-eating neighbors.
June 22, 2010 |

Yet another reason to adopt a vegetarian diet... Rodale reports that a new study in Nutrition Journal finds vegetarians have lower incidence of depression, anxiety, and other mood problems than their meat-eating neighbors.

I say neighbors specifically because the researchers came to this conclusion after studying Seventh Day Adventists, who were split about 4-5 between vegetarians and meat-eaters. Rodale notes that this group was chosen because the nature of the community is such that it is easier to account for external influences than diet coming into play.

The researchers found the vegetarians reported diets significantly lower in EPA and DHA, the omega-3 fatty acids that we get from eating fish, and which many studies have found are a key factor in improving both physical and mental health. So they expected to find the vegetarians would have higher incidences of issues like depression, anxiety, and mood problems. Instead, they found the opposite result. Vegetarians scored lower on depression tests and had better mood profiles than their fish- and meat-eating peers. "While dietary intake of EPA and DHA has an important role in brain function, we found no evidence that the absence of direct intake of these fatty acids in vegetarians adversely affects mood state," the study reports. "These results challenge what is known about the link between dietary fats and brain function and suggest an unrecognized benefit of vegetarian diets."

The researchers note that one factor influencing the results is that not only were the Seventh Day Adventists following a vegetarian diet, but they also made conscious decisions to eat healthily, eating very little processed food, favoring fruits, vegetables, nuts, and oils high in omega-3 alpha-linolenic acids.

The study notes that we shouldn't generalize to say that getting fish-based omega-3 fatty acids aren't also beneficial for your mood. But I'd add that if you can get the same benefits from a plant source as an animal one, choose the plant one.

more:
http://www.alternet.org/food/147300/vegetarians_are_happier_than_meat-eaters/


peace, love and veggies, kpete

[jobycom]

1. Oh, Baby!! I'm grabbing my armor and mace and girding for this thread!

:rofl:

[flvegan]

32. Right behind you!

:rofl:

[county worker]

2. Damn! Why do you have to let the cat out of the bag?

Now everyone will know why I am always happy?

This is going to be a long thread I think.:popcorn:

[xchrom]

3. I'm happy - I just had turkey sandwich for lunch

And filet mignon last night for dinner.

I didn't have any bacon for breakfast - that made me
unhappy.

[jobycom]

4. You won't be happy when you wake up tomorrow morning

and the Turkey Godfather has left a mushroom head on your pillow, now will you?

[xchrom]

8. Sauteed in butter with onions and morells

With scrambled eggs?

[jobycom]

12. With that attitude

it may take more than decapitated vegetables to intimidate you. :(

[xchrom]

19. Hey I've got cuisineart ultra pro out

And I'm not afraid to use it!

[jobycom]

24. I've got a white tipped asparagus.

You see what I'm sayin'?

[xchrom]

49. I got some pate to go with that. Nt

[davidinalameda]

92. hehe

congratulations

that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on here

:yourock: :woohoo: :rofl:

[davidinalameda]

91. bacon makes me pretty happy

[Honeycombe8]

129. Heroin would make you happy, too. Doesn't mean that's a good choice. nt

[davidinalameda]

133. whatever

you taking your self-righteous self to whatever bridge you crawled out from under would also make me happy

:hi:

go try and regulate someone else's life

[Touchdown]

137. You're comparing bacon with heroine and expect to be taken seriously.

:rofl:

[Honeycombe8]

146. It's the logic that "if it feels good, do it" that I'm comparing.

Lots of things may make a person happy at the time. Doesn't mean they're good things to do in the long run.

Eating certain things. Drugs. Buying expensive gizmos. Etc etc.

[Touchdown]

153. I know what you are doing.

Nevertheless, linking such feel good habits to your personal crusade against those with diets you disapprove of is disingenuous, absurd, and self serving.

[fishbulb703]

138. Heroin doesn't make you happy, it makes you feel good. nt

[Honeycombe8]

147. You're speaking for yourself, of course. Bacon doesn't make ME happy, but I take the poster at his

at his word...it makes HIM happy.

And so it is...drugs make some people happy. For others, it's expensive electronics or expensive sports cars, or overpriced houses. Whatever it is.

Making you feel good or making you happy is not a logical reason for doing something in the long run.

[fishbulb703]

151. I can not disagree with your last point more.

A few years of studying psych or philosophy will show you that people do EXACTLY what they want. That is why they do them. Think of it in terms of enough neurons activating. No one ever does something they do not want to do, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

[Warren DeMontague]

140. Some people are bicycle riders. Some people are mass murderers.

So bicycle riding and mass murder must be the exact same thing.

Right?

Personally, I like a heaping helping of red herring. Makes me happy. :shrug:

[Honeycombe8]

149. The logic of "if it makes you happy, then it must be good" is false logic...

and not a good reason for doing it.

Whatever makes a person happy...only that person can say.

Bacon never made ME "happy," although I liked it. I did smoke for 30 years. It made me happy. I no longer smoke because it wasn't a good choice in the long run. It made me happy at the time I was smoking, but the repercussions in the long run were killing me. And so it is with bacon.

[Warren DeMontague]

155. A few points: 1) The poster never SAID "It makes me happy, so it must be good".

He said, "bacon makes me happy".

2) Happiness is a subjective, internal experience. Is it a "good" reason for doing things? Clearly, that depends on the thing, the definition of "good", a whole host of factors. Surely most people would agree that simply doing something BECAUSE it makes you happy is not, in and of itself, a BAD reason for doing something. I like exercising. I like reading Scientific American. I like having sex with my wife. These are things I do because I like to do them, and they make me happy. Merely the fact that I'm doing them because I want to do them doesn't mean I shouldn't do them. Capice?

3) As I said above, happiness is a subjective, internal experiece. Happiness is ALSO the subject of the thread, or the dubious "study" referenced in the OP. Is "because it makes me happy" a good reason to eat something or not eat something? I don't know- but it's sort of the central premise of the OP. I think it's disingenuous to argue that people should be swayed towards a vegan diet "because it may make them happy" but then simultaneously try to say that happiness isn't a legitimate factor in peoples' decisions to eat items that run counter to the agenda or aren't on the menu being promoted.


Now, none of this has anything to do with whether bacon is actually good for you, or not. I'm fairly convinced that large amounts are probably bad for people, but a little now and then isn't a terrible thing. Personally, I don't like it; probably the last time I, personally, had ANY bacon whatsoever (aside from the Morningstar Vegan stuff- I actually do eat a lot of vegan and healthy dishes, I just don't feel the need to proseltyze to other people abt. their diets) was, maybe, 1978.

[Cant trust em]

5. Is this seriously a study based on 9 people?

Pretty small sample size.

[jobycom]

9. No, that was the ratio. It was based on 143 people.

But who cares? It's an excuse for a war! :rofl:

[Cant trust em]

16. OK. I was wondering if I read it right.

Bring it on meatophobes!

[jobycom]

22. Oh, it's on

Carcass Breath! :rofl:

[Robeson]

6. I predict this will be entertaining...

...:popcorn:

[kpete]

13. i am wearing

a shower cap and snorkel, rubber booties too!

[noiretextatique]

7. giving up meat...hope to be happier soon

need to lose weight, so the meat it out. i must admit i felt a lot better when i was vegetarian for five years. happiness on the way soon :7

[Mickeyc1004]

21. How did you do it?

...and what made you fall off the wagon?

I'd like to stop wanting to eating meat, but I just don't know if I can.

[noiretextatique]

30. i was in college...the food sucked, so it was easy

i am highly motivated now because i was diagnosed with diabetes and i want to reverse that. now i will do a weaning method and cut back to eating poultry a couple of days a week until i can give it up completely. i make green smoothies, which are very satisfying, and add in some why protein.
as with anything else, it just takes a little practice. i'm not sure why i started eating meat again...probably just laziness :7

[Mickeyc1004]

33. Thank you

Cutting back might be in my future. The green smoothies sound good.

[noiretextatique]

50. you're welcome...and good luck

i use swiss chard, parsley, spinach, pears, bananas and water...delicious. there are many recipes online.

[Warpy]

57. Meat is easy and satisfying

because it always tastes like meat, no matter how poor the cook. When I went to nursing school and had no time to cook, I fell off the wagon.

Now it wouldn't be as big a problem since there are so many veggie convenience foods out there. Back then the only convenience foods were tofu and tempeh. So I started to eat fish again, maybe some free range chicken once in a blue moon.

It's true, I didn't feel as well as I had on a veggie diet, still don't. How much of that is due to age and illness, I don't know.

[noiretextatique]

60. age and illness are why i am giving up meat now

doc said there aren't many diabetic vegetarians + i survived breast cancer and would prefer not to have a recurrence. both my oncologist and radiologist said cutting back on meat, red in particular, would be good.

[Warpy]

61. Half a pound of meat or fish per person per week

has been suggested as an optimum amount for people who feel they need meat in their diets. That means using meat as a flavoring, not as a main event, meaning a change in perception rather than overall effort.

I find it amazingly easy to stay within that guideline, eating sustainable fish like sardines, pollock, and other small stuff with an occasional splurge on salmon.

Still, the best way to transition if you're doing it for your health is to experiment several days a week, trying new things, until you've got enough of a recipe repertoire built up that you look forward to the veggie stuff and not the meat nights.

[noiretextatique]

74. i am on a 1500 cal/day diet

which is a LOT less than i used to eat, but i don't feel hungry most of the time. every now and then i feel the urge for some red meat, but not too often. i find green smoothies very satisfying, so i have quart of that each day. i was never big on sweets, so i had no problem letting sugar go. i am highly motivated because of the diabetes, and i am having a breast reduction to even me out later this year. i need to lose most of the weight i plan to lose before that, and frankly...i look fabulous :7 getting into those smaller sizes...the ones i haven't worn in 10 years...is a really great motivator.
thanks for the information, and have a wonderful weekend :hi:

[noiretextatique]

31. dupe

[pink-o]

121. Pssst! D'ya know the secret to eating healthy?

Actually making the food TASTE like something!!!

I can't imagine eating a bland salad, when there're great spices out there. I've been a vegetarian for almost 35 years, and I can tell you if I didn't eat ethnic food I'd starve to death. Thai, Indian, Ethiopian, Middle-Eastern, Italian--even Mexican and Chinese cuisine all offer veggie entrees that satisfy one's cravings. I do eat salads, but I make a dressing with Dijon mustard, Tofu, and black pepper. Tre yummy!

As for the rest of this thread, I'm a happy person, but so are my other carnivorous and omnivorous friends. So unless one is eating enough meat to choke a cheetah (which would make one really aggressive and competitive) I doubt it has any impact on anyone's happiness.

Good luck in your food quest!!

[Taitertots]

10. ....If you are a seventh day adventist n/t

[Mickeyc1004]

11. Maybe they are just happy in general.

I hate that I eat and crave meat, but I'd be very unhappy if I couldn't have a slice of peperoni pizza every now and then.

[jobycom]

18. Yeah, I wondered that.

The vegetarians have a natural filter, in that they've made a choice to change their diet to make themselves happier, so it may not really be diet related.

I think the real conclusion of the study is that lack of Omega 3s doesn't make one depressed, but that's a weak headline, so they went with the more inflammatory one.

[Mickeyc1004]

Good point.

On one hand I know that I should be happy,and would be happy if more animals are spared if I give up meat, but familiar foods are one of the few affordable pleasures in life that most people can afford.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. bacon

eom

[Lagomorph]

148. point, match, game....nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Abstinent teenagers are happier teenagers.

:crazy:

[JitterbugPerfume]

77. they taste good too

:hide:

[KonaKane]

17. I just had a prime rib sandwich, and I'm ecstatic.

I was last night after eating some polish sausage, too.

Let the food wars begin.

[jobycom]

20. You only think you were happy.

This study proves you are living a lie, forcing yourself to believe you are happy, whereas we vegetarians know the true meaning of happiness.

:rofl: Or something like that.

[KonaKane]

23. Must have been the hidden happy chemicals put there by the meat industry.

Thanks for the heads up. From now on, I don't eat with my tinfoil hat firmly in place.

[phasma ex machina]

29. "polish sausage"

As a vegan who practices "live and let live" it still troubles me how any self respecting meat eater can choose garbage grinder leavings over steak.

My dad used to eat that crap. He also ate cereal after shooing away the roaches running around in it. No biggie. They didn't really eat that much and left plenty for him.


:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[KonaKane]

36. You just don't know the glory of a nice hunk of sausage, cheese and a flaggon

of Okocim beer. Boze moj, co to nie masz!

[Llewlladdwr]

39. Please don't be hatin' on the sausage.

I would think that as a 'live and let live' vegan you'd be happy to see that at all of the animal was used that it was possible to use.

Not to mention that a well-made sausage is delicious.

[phasma ex machina]

47. +1 "all of the animal was used"

Amen! Best to eat all of what gets killed. I grant you that.

[Kali]

79. you know

some people have the concept that of using all parts of the animal is a function of respecting and conserving the resource. The idea that the only thing to eat from an animal is a piece of filet is the epitome of wasteful consumerism.

Cattle in particular are quite well suited to convert plant matter we can't digest into delicious healthy protein.

One person's "garbage grinder leavings" is another person's cultural heritage. Not to mention that many kinds of sausage ARE made from "regular" cuts of muscle, and are not just "leavings".

[SunnySong]

84. The part where cattle and lamb convert grasses to protein is

often forgotten by those that attack omnivores.

[SunnySong]

82. Wow hating on polish sausage...

I don't think any group that eats tofu and soy milk (not to mention some of those fake meats) should be throwing stones

[superduperfarleft]

97. What group, the chinese? n/t

[SunnySong]

98. Americanius vegitanius... a spwecial group of vegetarians that skip

the actual fruit and vegetables isle and eat heavily processed foods made in a plant in a third world nation.

[superduperfarleft]

100. Ah, those.

Yeah, I hate those guys. They're always the ones that end up years later posting in threads like this about how they went vegan and it turned them into a newt.

[SunnySong]

103. My understanding is they got better... plus only a true vegan would use a carrot for a nose.

[pipoman]

119. Maybe you have never had real sausage?

Just that over processed shit produced by the multi-national corporate meat grinders. There are true sausage artisans in every area of the country who use source verified, whole hogs and whole cattle to produce some of the most delicious, and efficiently produced, sausage, salami, and cured meats. You can choose not to eat it or say you don't like it, but to pretend there is anything unclean or inherently wrong with eating it isn't honest/true and has the appearance of being someone who in truth misses the occasional meat delicacy..;)

[Honeycombe8]

130. True. I'm from Cajun Country, where there is some of the best sausage.

Not unclean or anythng.

But I gave it up years ago for ethical reasons. I must say, my blood work is very happy because of it. I'm in my 50's with better blood work numbers than I had 30 years ago...and my blood work was normal 30 years ago.

Who knew a normal cholesterol level could be 133, or normal blood pressure could be 100/65? I didn't...until the last decade.

[stray cat]

25. There are certainly times the cat is happier than the mouse

[Llewlladdwr]

26. Things I find interesting...

Of the five individuals dropped from the study because of previous or current anti-depressant use four were vegetarians.

This causes me to wonder how many vegetarians were approached about joining the study but were ineligible due to anti-depressant use?

Perhaps a study comparing rates of anti-depressant use among vegetarians/non-vegetarians would be useful.

[pipi_k]

120. Screw the meat...

Fuck the veggies...


Give me a bag of gourmet jelly beans or a couple of zebra brownies and I'm euphoric.

[KurtNYC]

123. they may have correlation but they don't have even a theory on

causation. IMHO science gets a little squishy when it quantifies self-reported happiness.

[11 Bravo]

27. I'm having filet mignon wrapped in bacon for dinner. Later I will attend my son's baseball game ...

and wrap up the day by making love to my wife. I'm fucking ecstatic.

[Mudoria]

34. Make it even better by having a couple hot dogs at the game...

[11 Bravo]

37. I can always count on a Tar Heel to get it right!

Class of '74. Give 'em hell, Heels!

[KonaKane]

38. YUM!!!

So when do I get to come over for dinner? Don't be selfish.

[davidinalameda]

90. you must be some sort of republican to enjoy all those things

:sarcasm:

:bounce:

[Mudoria]

28. I was very happy when I had a nice thick sirloin last night

[flvegan]

35. WHOA!! Slow down folks. Trying to keep score here...

[11 Bravo]

40. A nice cheeseburger might enable you to do a better job of keeping up.

:hide:

[flvegan]

41. See now, that's just not nice

:rofl:

[LanternWaste]

44. I think the scorecard could use a...

I think the scorecard could use a "I just had (Inset ransom meat) for Lunch-- it was yummy!" as that seems to be the Original and Clever Remark (TM) that shows up on every single vegan thread.

[Gormy Cuss]

51. Please -- not this tired old militant vegan shit again.

BTW, your Bingo board is too wordy.:P



On a more serious note, it's an interesting study.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

52. Shoot, I spilled gravy on my scorecard,,,

[jobycom]

53. Oh. Making copies

[proteus_lives]

56. Hey, you're missing a square.

"If god didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them taste so good?"

Now off to my chicken alfredo!

[spiritual_gunfighter]

104. Thank you for this

I am using it.

[SOS]

139. Simply posting that Bingo card

could eliminate about 90% of these threads.

It's the same canards every time and that card covers 'em all.

[TexasObserver]

42. The author of the study may have to eat crow.

People who believe in God claim they're more happy than do people who don't believe in God. Is this evidence of fact or delusion?

[jmowreader]

67. Maybe, maybe not...

but the study's authors were careful to select Seventh-Day Adventists.

I am wondering, though: They very specifically chose Seventh-Day Adventists. That church is very, very heavily into vegetarianism. (Read The Road to Wellville--it is novelized to make it entertaining, but John Harvey Kellogg really was a nutcase about meat, calling it the source of 90 percent of all disease.) Is it possible, perhaps, the meat-eaters have some kind of guilt at going against the teachings of the church? I would like to see a similar study that doesn't involve people that heavily invested in institutional vegetarianism.

[LanternWaste]

43. never known anyone who was happy while...

I've never known anyone who was happy while eating my sister's meatloaf (well, I'm sure there are a few-- so they can maintain their languorous contrariness), so there may be something to that. :evilgrin:

[Lance_Boyle]

45. Worst. Euphemism. Ever.

"I've never known anyone who was happy while eating my sister's meatloaf"

[11 Bravo]

48. Damn! I thought I had the dirtiest mind at DU! I humbly relinquish my crown.

[jobycom]

54. Wow!

Quick elevator to the bottom! I love it. :rofl:

[shockra]

46. I think part of it is the increased serotonin.

You are eating more, and more chewier, crunchier fibrous foods.

I was thinking about this last year when I realized it had been almost 5 years since I'd taken an anti-depressant, after nearly 30 years of being on and off them. I remembered a study about how chewing gum increases your serotonin levels, and I thought...that makes sense. I eat a lot more, and more often, and nuts, brown rice, fruits, etc. are things that require more chewing than meat. But I weigh at least 10 pounds less than I did 5 years ago.

(And I never exercise. Unless you count chewing. :P)

[KurtNYC]

124. higher serotonin = decreased appetitte

and some people experience euphoria during fasting so you may be on to something.

[proteus_lives]

55. I'm about to eat chicken and pasta. I'm over the moon!

;-)

[uppityperson]

58. Interesting, but correlation does not = causation.

"eat healthily, eating very little processed food, favoring fruits, vegetables, nuts, and oils high in omega-3 alpha-linolenic acids" is good advise in general though.

[Dogmudgeon]

59. I guess adherence to one's religion didn't matter -- just this once.

Eating and nutrition is such a complex and emotionally-charged behavior that I now think of ALL work done in the field as being tentative. The food gurus are only beginning to figure things out.

Add to that, that Food Is The New Sex, and it complicates it more. My advice is to eat what makes you feel good. "Good" as in healthy, not doped-up. And if you want to eat a particular way for a non-nutritional reason, just make sure to follow the same general idea.
But then again, who's asking for my advice? :evilgrin:

--d!

[Zorra]

62. That's 'cuz we're all a bunch of blissninnies.

I'm a happy vegetarian and I never get depressed.

Peace, love and Blessings to All.

[jdp349]

63. I'd bet you'd find similar results...

for all purposefully manage their diets in a manner that is more nutritionally sound than the general population

[hobbit709]

64. Some of the most clinically depressed people I know are vegetarian.

I mean clinically diagnosed, undergoing therapy and treatment.

[AtomicKitten]

65. I'm 95% vegetarian and still learning to cook vegetarian.

This week's lesson was vital wheat gluten + Yves meatless ground round = meat(less)balls.

Admittedly I still cross paths with a Double-Double with grilled onions once in a while, but that's really In-and-Out's fault for being so freakin' tasty.

[apocalypsehow]

66. "I would rather cry in a Mercedes than smile on the back of a bicycle."

Someone quoted that to me today - I don't know where they got it or I'd cite the author - and it seems apropos here.

[conspirator]

68. I feel in a bad mood when I DON'T eat steak for 2 days. So this study sucks n/t

[mzteris]

85. going through withdrawal is always difficult -

but once you get through it, you might notice a difference.

[Warren DeMontague]

108. It's been over 10 years since I've eaten any red meat

and for some reason, I still don't feel morally superior or compelled to finger-wag at other people about their dietary choices. :shrug:

[mzteris]

110. does that sound like what I'm doing? It's not, you know.

Why do people get so defensive when people do something different than what they do??

[Warren DeMontague]

112. Like I said, I don't eat red meat. So what "something different" are you doing that I'm

supposedly 'defensive' about?

Oh, I know. Telling someone that they're going through "withdrawl" from red meat, the implication that it's some sort of addiction. Maybe that's it?

Well, I'm familiar with addiction, and I know what real "withdrawl" looks like. Red Meat, as eco-evil as you may be convinced it is, DOES NOT CAUSE it.

[mzteris]

114. I didnt' mean you -

and yeah - it IS "withdrawal". Why would you get mad at my telling someone that?

There are different types and levels of "withdrawal" and different types and levels of addictions. One can be addicted to just about anything, you know.

[Warren DeMontague]

118. Addiction is a real phenomenon, which can have serious physiological implications.

I think we do a major disservice to actual addicts when we muddy the definition of "addiction" to encompass anything anyone might enjoy or like, or (especially) any behavior that other people may happen to disapprove of. Like how the boyfriend who keeps a Penthouse collection under the mattress doesn't just like to look at naked ladies--- he must be a "porn addict".

No, like I said, real addiction- and REAL withdrawl- is ugly. People may like to eat red meat, people may not want to stop eating red meat (despite heaps of hectoring from self-appointed dietary chieftans) but that does not mean that they're "addicted" to it, nor does it mean they're going through "withdrawl".

[KoKo]

69. I'm not a Vegan...I do eat meat from time to time..and I try to do my best to find Happiness

even amongst these ruins that I see us in.

I try to maintain a Positive Outlook ...even if I do eat meat here and there ...but the LOVE OF MY LIFE is FRESH GROWN VEGGIES!

I get them from local growers in our Summer here in NC...and the rest of the year I check out "Country of Origin" from the SuperMarkets in my area along with "Whole foods, Earth Fare and Trader Joes."

Frankly I find much more USA GROWN in my LOCAL SUPERMARKETS. BEWARE of WHOLE FOODS...their frozen Spinach and Brocolli always comes from CHINA and it's Marked "ORGANIC." Yeah...Organic from CHINA? Give me a break!

And also...be sure you check out "Country of Origin" with "Earth Fare and Trader Joes." Lots of "Organic" marked food that comes from CHINA and other Countries that we might be wary of. Although the USA seems to be vying for classification of "FOOD NOT FIT TO EAT" these days even with our own.

BUYER BE WARE!

[LostinVA]

70. TJ's doesn't sell anything from China anymore

Even pet food. Or so I was assured by Corporate.

[cherokeeprogressive]

71. Hold on there. Every time I see a thread like this, vegetarians get mad, while meat eaters joke.

So I'm not buying the results of the study.

[mzteris]

86. study said veg's were happy, not impervious to insults,

attacks and name-calling.


edit to add: those "jokes" (most, not all) are designed to be as hurtful and insulting as possible. Some of them are made in good faith and are funny, most of them, not so much. :(

It's called bullying, and when that occurs, only the bully thinks the joke is "funny".

[apocalypsehow]

87. Wrong: it is often the OP's posted by vegan's that are laced with vitriol, condescension, and

hatefulness - there's one floating around GD right now where the OP asserts, without a shred of evidence, that meat-eaters are responsible for billions of people starving around the world. That's a pretty "hurtful" and "insulting" charge. Some might even call it the language of a "bully."

What you call "bullying" is simply people refusing to adopt the vegetarian fad wholesale, and without dissent. What you call "insulting" is people refusing to adopt your point of view on what constitutes a healthy diet. What you find "hurtful" is folks simply refusing to do what you want them to do with their lives.

I've got news for you: not doing what mzteris - or any other vegan - wants simply because mzteris wants it done is neither insulting, hurtful, or a species of bullying. It is simply living in a free country full of individual choices. Got it? :shrug:

[mzteris]

101. vegan and vitriol ??? that is hysterical.

Well, there is a lot of proof that the mass production of meat is a less than optimal way of feeding the planet and that factory farming is harmful to the environmentn in a whole lot of ways. I don't think they're trying to bully (though admittedly, I've not read that particular post), but I liken it to people who are against the war and people who are in the military feel "insulted" because a poster is anti-war. The poster may not be attacking the person, but expressing their opinion about some of the damages that military can do.

What I call "bullying" is the incessant attacks on people because they are vegetarian or vegan. Maybe it's a matter of perception. You don't see the insult and hurt because you're not on the receiving end of it. "REFUSING" to be a vegetarian isn't bullying. Name-calling and ragging is. "INSULTING isn't people refusing to adopt a point of view, it's their insipid and snide remarks putting down those who ARE vegs. HURTFUL is being on the receiving end of all that hate because those who have chosen differently feel somehow THREATENED for some reason and proceed to put-down people who are "different".

It's like I tell my kids, unless everyone's laughing, it's NOT funny!

I don't care what you do or don't do that affects you. But just remember your rights end where another person's begin.

I've not been insulting to you because of your choices. Yet you're attacking me and you don't even know me.

I'm trying to help people understand just how hurtful their behaviour is and you just can't - or won't - see it.

[Chan790]

116. ...

Well, the truth sucks. Doesn't it.

I hate to break it to you but your steak...has a measurable cost in dead humans. So does almost anything else you have in life as the result of living in a wealthy industrialized nation. Being compassionate sucks, realizing that your quality of life has consequences sucks. I grew up on a dairy-farm and I hate livestock...I certainly didn't become a "vegetarian fad bully" because I like cows and goats. The most evil, disgusting, fecund horror-film monster has nothing on chickens either. I did it because I like humanity and because I realized that my fancy Sunday dinner had a cost in human lives: the soldiers dying to maintain our gluttonous demand for oil (the largest portion of which is used in meat-production, a usage with a very-low efficiency), the stress placed on global ecosystems (The amount of soybeans and corn used in the US alone to feed livestock is enough to feed the global population several times over.), the direct casualties of insufficient global food supply, people dying from the pollution and global-warming.

Don't like it? Accept that your actions have consequences and decide what you can do to ameliorate that cost. Hint: Veganism is one of the easiest options, even vegetarianism helps...deciding to eat one fewer non-breakfast animal-product-containing meal is even a step in the right direction. You might also consider abandoning your car, shutting off your A/C, reducing electrical consumption, reducing plastic consumption and becoming more self-reliant by making more of your daily necessities yourself...but all those things combined won't have the same impact as simply deciding to live a meat-free life. You decide your level of involvement in making things better.

Frankly, moral-relativism disgusts me. Not all choices are equally-valid. I'm sorry if someone is too cowardly of a human being to accept that fact. That doesn't make me a bully, it just makes them contemptible. It's true: you don't have to do anything; free-will is awesome in that way...but it doesn't grant you a free-pass on the consequences of your choices or the derision of your peers. Insisting that we not call you on your bullshit or point out your selfishness is craven.

[apocalypsehow]

126. More name-calling in lieu of an actual factual argument. Typical.

:boring:

But thanks for making my point for me.

[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[apocalypsehow]

154. To the extent any "facts" where stated, they were proven to be contrived/false, as shown above.

But really, do you think you're making any progress with this silly burbling about "bad persons" who don't share your dietary fad - and that's precisely what it is, a fad - being "cranky" because they don't agree with your militancy and talks of whistling "happy songs" and your obsession with "clean" colons and all the rest?

Of course you don't - it merely reinforces every point I've made about the self-righteousness of a core group of militant vegans. It is textbook passive/aggressive growling, mixed with a good deal of angry projection.

I mean, what kind of mentality imagines this is some kind of cogent, adult response:

"you're just a bad person but you're the one who has to live with yourself. I don't...but geez, man...looking the mirror must be hell for you. I remember being like you, I looked and felt like twice-warmed-over crap"

:shrug:

Laughable stuff.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. Telling people that their diet is morally inferior is not "attacks and name calling"?

Really, what some people want to do is be able to lecture other people about their diets from the sanctity of the soapbox, and not have the 'sinners' do anything except say "oh, thank you for taking the time to correct me, wise one" :eyes:

...it's very simple. Worry about what's on the end of your fork, not your neighbor's. Anything else is, as you put it, "bullying".

[Fla_Democrat]

72. If they are so happy

why do they have fits when other people eat meat? I never see omnivores splashing themselves with fake bean juice and laying in the street. :smoke:

[TheKentuckian]

73. I account most difference to the diet drawing a kinder crowd. The sample is naturally skewed,

I think.

To be honest many of the vegetarians I've known have been kinda somber, even melancholy at times and a lot of them seem happier when they quit.

I'll rate it partial credence and something to observe more closely but with skepticism.

[William Z. Foster]

75. happy people are more likely to be vegetarians

Happiness in this country is a function of access to resources, and those with access to resources are more likely to be concerned with self expression and personal choices and lifestyle. They can afford the luxury of doing that.

I would say that people who are better off are more likely to be happy and to have more control over their lives, and are more likely to worry about personal lifestyle choices, and are therefore more likely to be vegetarians.

[Lucian]

76. That's because vegetarians aren't eating meat that's laced with hormones...

and other god-knows-what chemicals.

[KonaKane]

89. And neither are some meat eaters.

We buy all of our meat locally raised, free range and hormone free.

[Kali]

132. plenty of plant based hormones and precursors - some even medically contraindicated in certain cases

also beef is the only meat commonly grown with added hormones and it is pretty much available in most places with out it, it isn't used in pork, lamb, or poultry

I think the industry should stop using it, but I also think its pretty safe. Bottom line is consumers/customers are afraid of it and don't want it. Who is supposed to always be right?

just FYI :-)

[JitterbugPerfume]

78. I follow Michael Pollans advice

eat food , not to much , mostly plants , mostly leaves. What stands on one leg (plants and mushrooms)is better than what stands on two legs (chicken etc)and that is better than what stands on four legs (pigs and cows)

He didn't include fish , but I am sure it is in there somewhere
sometimes I backslide but he says that is ok too


lighten up

[undeterred]

134. Whew...

[Kali]

80. this article is third hand

The link to the study would be a more accurate. Or at least the Rodale article it was copied from.

http://www.nutritionj.com/content/9/1/26

http://www.rodale.com/vegetarian-diets?page=0%2C0

[KonaKane]

81. I just had some chicken curry, and I'm so happy I'm giggling.

Does that count? Or should I be sad?

[jbond56]

83. as a meat eater I liked this study

If you read the actual study results yes it found vegan's to be slightly happier than meat eaters. This is a far cry from the spin it has been receiving. Some articles portray it as meat makes you depressed. hahahahah

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/698054451/interview-with-an-ex-adventist-sondra

The link above gives some more context.

If you eat meat you don't have to supplement B12, tryptophan, or Omega 3's. I'm glad a good chemistry set can allow vegan's to eat like they want and be healthy.

[Vicar In A Tutu]

88. It's false that supplements are required.

Omega-3 is easily found in flax and kiwifruit, to name a couple. Tryptophan in soybeans, sesame & sunflower seeds and more and many, many foods (breakfast cereals are a big one here) have B-12 added and they have them added not simply for the benefit of vegetarians - If your only meat in a given day is chicken you're not going to be getting close to enough. Suggesting that a "chemistry set" is required is entirely inaccurate. It's like me assuming that you're DEFINITELY going to have really high cholesterol if you consume meat because I'm going to, by extension, assuming that it's only red meat and with that you eat a load of full-fat cheese and then fry it all to boot.

[jbond56]

105. sure but

omega 3 from flax still leaves you short of DHA and probably EPA. About 5% of the flax will convert to EPA and only 1/2 of 1 percent will convert to DHA. So read some more and consider a better source of omega 3 than flax. The amount of soybeans and sesame seeds you have to eat to get the require amount of trptophan is also in the pounds. Why? All the fiber a normal vegan eats cause the nutrients to move through faster. So absorption is lower. As far ass chicken. that is a crap meat. To much omega 6 only eat is poor and starving. Grass fed is the way to go. Plenty of B12 there. Fat is our normal diet. The lower your cholesterol the higher your risk of cancer. The "chemistry set" is in reference to B12. Unless you get it from an animal you have to make it with a chemistry set.

[Vicar In A Tutu]

106. Meat increases the risk of many types of cancer

There's no perfect solution, but it's a fact that a well-thought out vegetarian diet does have many health benefits. No one is denying that you can be healthy with meat too, but so many of the "weedy" myths are bullshit. If you plan well and are sensible you can have a diet bereft of a lot of the baggage meat brings and potentially enjoy a longer life as a result (though such studies remain in their relative infancy, so I'm not going to hold them up as the be-all and end-all.

And as for the cholesterol thing: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/711853 So I think we have to wait and see on that one, but either way I think anyone can agree that it's prudent to keep it at a *sensible* level - as I do nowadays.

I'm by no means mocking or taunting meat eaters - I was raised one. Honestly, the best I could hope is to in some tiny, miniscule way help influence a meat industry which operates in a less torturous way and maybe quash in a small circle a few of the myths surrounding vegetarians, their food and the ill-health with which they're so lazily stereotyped. Personally, I lack the discipline to stick strictly to super-healthy meals day in, day out (though I am doing better than I was with meat). I suppose I could, theoretically, eat roadkill, I wouldn't have a problem with that, I'm not here to shove anything in anyone's face, but as the thread was here I might as well do my bit to point out that a meat-free diet can indeed be extremely healthy.

[mzteris]

111. you're not a sally fallon-er are you?

oy vey....

[Jeanette in FL]

93. You don't have to supplement to get B12, tryptophan or Omega 3's

B12 can be found in Sea Vegetable, Dulse etc.

Tryptophan is in many green vegetables, nuts and seeds.

Omega 3's are in seeds; such as hemp, chia and also in nuts.

[superduperfarleft]

96. B12 is also found in beer.

I'm "supplementing" right now.

[JanMichael]

99. Same page. I imagine I'm overloaded with B-12 on a regular basis. nt.

[mzteris]

102. thanks for the reminder! I need my b-12 "shot"

right about now. (Heading off to the fridge...)

:toast:

[Jeanette in FL]

127. Then I am covered, too

Thanks for the reminder of B12 being in beer! :toast:

I may do a booster "shot" this afternoon.

[gauguin57]

94. I'm happier as a vegetarian (actually lacto-ovo pescatarian), because red meat always creeped me out

When I was younger and ate meat, I had one too many bloody pieces of meat ... they always creeped me out. To this day, I have to have the limited seafood I eat cooked to well done.

I'm happier eating a salad than fearing that red spot in the middle of my burger. I'm also happier eating a salad when I see (in my agricultural county) the animals and chickens, crammed into tiny little cages, being driven around on the big trucks. They make me sad; salad makes me happy.

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[defendandprotect]

95. Think that's absolutely true -- nature does send messages . . .

I wanted to be a veggie/Vegan since I was 6 years old!!

Only much later was I able to do it --

My regret is that I didn't do it earlier and separate my kids from

the violence of animal-eating!!

[Warren DeMontague]

107. A certain sub-set of them seem to be inordinately obsessed with what others choose to eat.

That doesn't sound like a recipe for happiness. :shrug:

[KonaKane]

113. This is why I am not buying the whole "they are happier" thing

I knew a goodly number of vegans and vegetarians when I was still living in Utah, and since they tended to be friends of friends, we would get together for coffee in big groups a couple of times a week. It seems that barely a gathering went by when these folks didnt go off on some sermon about us who eat meat are killing the planet, or how the cream we were putting in our coffee wasn't right for some reason, or on and on. "Happy"? My gods, I have never seen such a bunch of uptight, grumpy and sour people. They had a permanent stick up their ass and were constantly bothered about something.

You cannot tell me that is a state of "happiness" in any way.

[KurtNYC]

125. they ARE happier bc THEY are not the ones getting nagged by vegetarians

:hide:

[KonaKane]

141. HA!!

True.

[Lorien]

143. Maybe because it effects everyone on the planet:

http://www.mcspotlight.org/media/reports/beyond.html

[Warren DeMontague]

160. A LOT of things "effect" (sic) everyone on the planet.

So how's that preaching thing working out for you, anyhow? Getting a lot of converts that way?

[gleaner]

115. I agree that if you can get the nutrition you need ..

from plant sources you should use them first. I don't think that you can generalize based on one study of a closely knit religious community that vegetarians overall are happier because they are vegetarians.

It would be like saying all of us old Quaker women wear little bonnets and dress in gray. Before you can draw a conclusion, you need to see many studies of a wide variety of people. Most people do not see or use nutritionists. I have both MS and Diabetes, so I had to see a Nutritionist. I was told that it was very difficult to manage Diabetes on a strictly vegetarian diet.

However for anyone I recommend going through the Vegan products in your market. I have found salad dressings, soy products and a wide variety of imitation cheeses that I can use. They taste good, they have no cholesterol and I can use them well in my exchange diet. My problem with them now is that they are too expensive for me to afford. My husband and I are on a fixed income and really have to stick to the basics.

Another good thing to do for vegetarians or anyone is to grow a vegetable garden. There is an online store that specializes in natural pest controls like diatamaceos earth, ladybugs, lacewings, encarsia and praying mantis. You can also use Safer Soap which is potassium salts. I had to give up the garden when my husband and I both got too sick to care for it, but it was good while it lasted.

[Touchdown]

117. That's as believable as saying I can have unlimited profits...

if I buy This guy's books and audio CDs for only $109.99

[Honeycombe8]

131. Come on, now. One has nothing to do w/the other. Some people just can't handle the truth.

I'm not a vegetarian, but the point made in the study is interesting.

Some people get offended by hearing something that doesn't reinforce their own habits, or implies they would be healthier if they would behave differently. I don't understand that attitude. It's always a good thing to get knowledge, whether you use it or not, is what I think.

[Touchdown]

136. The truth? That's a good one.

"For those that already believe, no proof is necessary."

[Honeycombe8]

145. Strange that people have such hostility about a simple study about health.

Is not eating meat such an abhorrent thing to you? Why does it get you angry? It reminds me of those who get angry at just the thought of someone buying a Prius. To the oil crowd, the Prius apparently represents something more than 40 mpg in the city. (I'm thinking of getting a Prius this year, so I've encountered this strange hostility to the car by a variety of people.)

[Touchdown]

152. It's not about the study, it's not about the simplicity.

It's about what those Vegetarian DUers do with their agenda when this study conveniently tells you what you want to hear.

They become insufferable and preachy jagoffs!

I have no emotional connection to not eating meat or any other diet, for that matter. I do, however have a very big problem with goody-goody total strangers who tell me what to do because they think they're helping me. You just need to back the fuck off, right now!

The fact that these "researchers" didn't take into the first account of brain chemistry or mental illness, and that diet has nothing to do with it, but genetics and heredity, tells me they are full of shit, and trying to push an agenda.

You made a Prius analogy. Let me tell you what I see this like. In 1894, Dr. Sayer circumcised a boy who also had muscle atrophy in his legs. He later didn't, and Dr. Sayer claimed it was the circumcision that cured him of his paralysis. He was published in the American Journal of Medicine, and his claims were never questioned by his peers. A century later, we are still claiming that circumcision cures something... anything just to continue the practice in America, a for profit health care system.

[woo me with science]

122. Other findings in research on happiness::

Caring men are happier than macho men.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080429084317.htm

Older Americans are happier than younger Americans.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071301641.html

Republicans are happier than Democrats.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/?ChartID=7

Men are happier than women by midlife.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-07-29-happier-gender_N.htm

Mothers with one child are happier than childless women. Second and third children don't add to parents' happiness at all.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200502/is-one-kid-enough

People in poor health are happier than others think. (See...No need for pesky health care reform!)
http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr05/poor.aspx


Finally, a discussion of happiness studies, particularly the one that compared happiness in lottery winners versus victims of accidents that left them paralyzed.
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2010/03/22/100322crbo_books_kolbert

[Honeycombe8]

128. Some vegetarians eat fish. They abstain only from mammal flesh.

If ever I become a vegetarian, that's what I would do. I would think it would be hard to get all the protein a body needs without at least fish or some other pure protein source (beans and such are carbs with protein in them).

[LostInAnomie]

135. Self righteousness and self-satisfaction are powerful mood elevators.

:rofl: :yoiks:

Just kidding, veggies.

[Lorien]

142. Very simple reasons why this is so

my doctor suggests a vegetarian or vegan diet to nearly all of her patients. The reasons being that heavy use of artificial hormones and antibiotics in meat and dairy production causes hormonal and thyroid imbalances in humans, plus makes us more resistant to antibiotics when we need them most. Hormone and thyroid imbalances cause moods changes which almost always includes depression. Going veg certainly helped me out.

[Common Sense Party]

150. So, should we all be conservatives, then, as well?

http://www.livescience.com/health/080507-liberal-conservative.html

"Conservatives Happier than Liberals"

[krabigirl]

156. Well, i know i am happier after eating a good vegan meal..cooked by someone other than me. Ro

I just can't do it well. However, i notice that i feel full yet not heavy or sick (i have a weak stomach so most everything makes me sick) after eating at a vegan restaurant or at a friend's. I especially love good vegan cheeses as i can't have dairy.

I'm still an omnivore as i like the taste of meat (and i have a hard time cooking vegan to get the right amount of protein).

[postulater]

157. I use meat for a protein source.

I was a vegetarian for over ten years. Didn't see a television for over ten years either.

I feel better when I use meat, especially if it was wild game.

I don't think the television adds much to my life though.

[flvegan]

158. I just bookmarked this thread.

3 days, couple hundred responses. Damn, but some of you folks that take offense to NOT eating meat might want to engage in some sort of anger management practice.

Not like its even from some DU veghead. kpete is no propaganda promotion device.

Hilarious, to say the least.

[Touchdown]

159. I have. My shrink told me to act it out on vegetarians.

He said "They are just as judgmental and sanctimonious as your deadbeat Dad, and since your Dad is dead, there is no way you can ever be whole unless you take it out on Vegans... especially ones from Florida.

[apocalypsehow]

161. This reply falls under the category of "projection." Ditto the bookmark. n/t.

[shockra]

162. Eating meat makes you angry?!

Have mercy. The war on peaceful, domesticated livestock is the only war Americans are winning.

:hide:

[shockra]

163. Failed Vegetarians.

I think the role of Celiac Disease is way underestimated. When you stop eating meat and start eating more grains you're going to feel worse. Maybe not right away, but eventually.

When I looked at Alicia Silverstone's book The Kind Diet the first page I started reading, naturally, was the one where she claims Celiac is "rare" and not to worry about it! I think she's doing a big disservice with that comment.

I tried to be vegetarian a few times over the years, but it didn't work out. It wasn't until I became vegan that it became obvious I had a problem with gluten because I was eating way more bread, pasta and meat subs. I barely even knew what gluten was at that point, so I was lucky to figure it out. It's turned out everyone in my immediate family is very sensitive to gluten.

It's underdiagnosed mainly because there's no medication for it, I'm sure. These days everything is about Big Pharma, and the only way to control CD is through diet.

Meat, dairy and eggs all happen to be gluten-free. Hence most celiacs have diets high in animal products. I think that's one of the attractions of the "low-carb" diets, too. You eat mostly animal products, with just enough grains to keep feeding your gluten addiction. Because when you're Celiac, gluten has an opiate-like affect on your brain. It can be seriously hard to give up.

I told my sister when she went gluten-free that a nicotine addiction was easier to kick, but she still didn't quite believe the addictive effects. It took her a year and a half of cheating off and on to finally get serious about it. After cleaning up your diet you react more quickly and severely to getting glutened. Eventually she decided she couldn't take the pain and had to completely stop!

Ironically, one of the things that I learned after giving up smoking was that it can mask celiac symptoms. I had gone off my gluten-free diet thinking I could do okay without it, then when I quit smoking my symptoms came back with a vengeance. It took me a few months of hell to figure it out, but now I am gluten-free permanently absolutely and forever, LOL.