Joan Hinton dies at 88; physicist joined Maoist revolution after helping develop the atom bomb

[n2doc]

By Valerie J. Nelson, Los Angeles Times
June 21, 2010

In the anti-Communist hysteria of early 1950s America, nuclear physicist Joan Hinton was labeled "The Atom Spy Who Got Away."

Recruited at 22 to help develop the atom bomb, she was so repulsed when the U.S. dropped it on Japan during World War II that she fled in 1948 to China, where she embraced Maoism and ran a dairy farm for much of the rest of her life.

Magazines from the era presented her in caricature as a trenchcoated femme fatale engaged in nuclear espionage, a charge she always denied. Hinton chortled when she told The Times in 1999 that reality was far more mundane: the science she practiced in China was aimed at finding the best way to breed horses and milk cows.

Hinton died June 8 at a hospital in Beijing, said a spokeswoman for the Chinese Academy of Agricultural Mechanization, which Hinton had worked with since 1979. She was 88.

"I don't want to spend my life figuring out how to kill people," Hinton said in 2002 on National Public Radio as she explained her disgust with nuclear warfare and her attraction to China. "I want to figure out how to let people have a better life, not a worse life."

http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-joan-hinton-20100621,0,4238075.story

[NoNothing]

1. Bit of a disconnect there, it seems

Mao killed vastly more people with his idiotic policies than nuclear weapons ever have.

That's rather like a gunmaker, wracked with guilt over the number of people accidentally killed with his products, going to work for the auto industry.

[kgnu_fan]

2. Would you provide the number of poeple killed by Mao, please?

[NoNothing]

4. Depends on who you ask

The official toll of excess deaths recorded in China for the years of the Great Leap Forward is 14 million, but scholars have estimated the number of famine victims to be between 20 and 43 million.

[kgnu_fan]

8. Would you please give me your source? I could not find that number .

[apocalypsehow]

11. It took me one sentence and a mouse click - Google is such a good friend of the genuinely curious:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm

People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975): 40 000 000
Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
Labor Camps: 20M
Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M

That was the first source listed: the same link contains at least twenty other scholars/authors who have similar numbers for Mao's indiscriminate butchery - some more, some less. But all of them are in the millions.

Now, here's how I found this data: I pulled up Google, then typed the sentence "number of deaths due to mao." The source cited was the top link cited by the search engine - but there were a boatload of others, all the way down the page.

Ain't that the neatest thing since sliced bread? :shrug:

[kgnu_fan]

16. Thank you, I typed "mao massacre" ....

And all I saw was Bleiburg massacre, Nanking massacre, Tiananmen massacre ...etc but not for cultural revolution... keyword is the key.

Again, thank you.

And also I was trained not to go to wiki for information for my research so I did not go.

[NoNothing]

12. Sure

Peng Xizhe (彭希哲), "Demographic Consequences of the Great Leap Forward in China's Provinces," Population and Development Review 13, no. 4 (1987), 639-70. As referenced on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward.

[geek tragedy]

5. Famines from the Great Leap Forward were good

for 20 million deaths. Not to mention the cultural and human destruction from his 'Cultural Revolution."

[geek tragedy]

3. More like working for the tobacco industry. nt

[NoNothing]

7. Good one! Even better.

[apocalypsehow]

10. Precisely. n/t.

[MicaelS]

6. "Disgusted after the bomb was dropped on Japan"....

My opinion has always been that if the bomb has been available 6-12 months sooner, or the war lasted 6-12 months longer, then Berlin would have been the first target, and those who condemn the use of the bombs on Japan would not have said a thing about their use on Germany. Their attitude would have been that the dirty Fascists got what they deserved.

Those scientists who worked on the bomb (many of the Jewish refugees from Hitler) did not seem to develop scruples until it was clear that Germany would no longer be the target. They knew for a fact that Berlin, and its civilians would certainly be the main target. They certainly didn’t seem to have any concerns about German civilians being killed.

[kgnu_fan]

9. US bombed its ally French civilians in Royan...to use its first napalm

Howard Zinn concludes that it was “an unnecessary military operation” and that Royan was bombed to fulfill “pride, military ambition, glory and honor.”

Read Howard Zinn's upcoming book "The Bomb"
The Bomb by Howard Zinn
(City Lights Open Media, San Francisco, August 2010);
paperback, 100 pp; $8.95.
www.citylights.com

<Snip>
That whole discussion about casualty figures is pointless. It is based on the premise that there would have to be an American invasion of Japan in order to end the war. But the evidence is clear that the Japanese were on the verge of surrender, that a simple declaration on keeping the position of the Emperor would have brought the war to an end, and no invasion was necessary.
<...>
The United States Strategic Bomb(ing) Survey, whose team interviewed the important Japanese decision-makers right after the war, came to this official conclusion:
Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 21 December, 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November, 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.

Read review
Source: http://theragblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/books-jonah-raskin-on-bomb-howard-zinn.html

The Bomb:
Howard Zinn's last call to rebel against war

By Jonah Raskin / The Rag Blog / May 2, 2010

[Confusious]

13. You really need to take more history

I really get sick of the rewrites.

Truman changed the surrender terms at potsdam, leaving the emperor. The japanese took it a a sign of weakness and rejected it, using a word meaning "to dismiss with silent contempt."

They wouldn't have surrendered if we didn't drop the bomb. They weren't poor innocent either. Wake island, nanking, Bataan death march. Your defense of the Japanese of WW2 disgusts me.


As for the french,

In all, according to the Air Force Historical Studies Office, "1,161 heavy bombers destroyed 22 defensive installations consisting of AA and arty positions and strongpoints covering the Gironde estuary"..

On a darker note, the bombing of Royan would be the Eighth Air Force's only use a new weapon in an attempt to kill Germans in their bunkers: napalm . Known as a Class-C Fire Bomb, each napalm bomb contained 108 Gallons of the petrolium substance, and they were only used in a few missions. A B-17 only carried 4 of them ...

As a result of the conventional and napalm bombing of the city of Royan, the city was totally destroyed, with one report citing that only nine houses remained standing . Among the destructive figures is cited that 1,700 French civilians were killed.

You're making it sound like we just killed civilians, and there were no germans there.

[kgnu_fan]

14. I hope you read the book and maybe we can discuss the sources of information. OK?

[Confusious]

19. I read real history books

Not books that have an agenda. That goes left and right.

Instead of his sources, how about discussing what he left out?

Also noted, you didn't respond to anything I said.

[kgnu_fan]

15. Three Holy Wars - Howard Zinn

Since you want to know more about history, this may add to your perspectives.

http://www.zmag.org/zvideo/3322
Three Holy Wars: Progressive's 100 Anniversary Conference

January, 14 2010 By Howard Zinn

Three Holy Wars

The Progressive 100th Anniversary Speech in Madison, Wisconsin, May 2, 2009.

<snip>

It's about three holy wars. In my head that's my title of this talk -
although it's not a very formal talk. Three holy wars. What does that
mean? I'm not talking about religious wars. I'm talking about the three
wars in American history that are sacrosanct - the three wars that you
cannot say anything bad about: The Revolutionary War, the Civil War and
World War II.



Ever hear anyone say anything bad about the founding fathers? About the
Civil War? About the "Good War," World War II? It's very, very, very
hard in our culture to be critical in any way of these wars.



Oh, you can be critical of other wars and there's a kind of acceptance
of this was a bad one. This was a bad one, but, no, no, the
Revolutionary War, the Civil War.



So, I thought it was very important to look very critically and
carefully at these three idealized wars. I guess the word idealized
gives me away. Three romanticized wars. Important. Important to be
willing to at least raise the question. It's not that I am going to
immediately denounce these three wars - well, maybe.



Well, I don't know how to characterize what I will say about them, but I
guess I think it is important to at least raise the possibility that you
can criticize something which everybody has accepted as uncriticizable.
I mean we are supposed to be thinking people - you should be able to
question anything.



I just heard Barbara Ehrenreich question god - and I didn't hear an
answer. I would like to hear an interview between them - which Matt can
publish in The Progressive.



If we are thinking human beings, we have to be willing to question
everything including these wars which nobody wants to say anything bad
about. So, that's what I am going to start to do because it's a very big
topic and I only have a little bit of time. I've been warned about time.
They have a guy here who warns you. He's a very tough looking guy and he
warns you about time. I only have a bit of time, just enough to
introduce a few ideas just to think about. O.K.?

<snip>

[Confusious]

21. Yes, yes. The USA is evil

It was founded on evil, and has been evil every day of it's existence. We're racists and violent. We started the revolution for no reason, we just like killing. We fought the civil war and men died, again, because we like to kill. We started WW1 as a joke, and we tricked the Japanese into bombing us at pearl harbor.

Doe that sum up his book?

Let's just ignore the state of every other country in the past and present on the planet.

There are some countries where howard zinn would have been boiled alive as soon as he opened his mouth (Just saying it happened in another country, not that I want to see it, or for it to happen ). Here, he gets a following and 20 books preaching the evil of the system he was a part of.

[Gaedel]

17. The Japanese

"They wouldn't have surrendered if we didn't drop the bomb. They weren't poor innocent either. Wake island, nanking, Bataan death march. Your defense of the Japanese of WW2 disgusts me."

The Japanese killed many, many more Chinese than the Germans did Jews, Gypsies, and Poles.

The USAAF strategic incendiary bombing killed far more Japanes that the two A-bombs.

An estimate of WWII civilian deaths in China is 20 million. The same source estimated Japanese civilian deaths in WWII as 672,000.

The USSR lost the most with 13.6 million military deaths and 16 million civilian deaths.

China had 1.9 million military deaths and 20 million civilian deaths.

Japan had 2.6 million military deaths and 672,000 civilian deaths.

Germany had 3.25 million military deaths and 2.45 million civilian deaths.

[kgnu_fan]

18. USA???

[Confusious]

20. And that means what?

Considering the number the Japanese killed, we treated them with kid gloves.

[kgnu_fan]

23. I thought you might know number of people USA killed in Vietnam, Iraq, Indonesia ...

... Endless wars...

[Confusious]

24. That wasn't the subject

Lets compare apples and donkeys, maybe you'll have more luck.

So now, 60 years after WW2, maybe the United States has, in military action, mostly by mistake, killed 1/6 as many people as they Japanese did ON PURPOSE, and that makes us more evil then japan during world war 2.

It's not just the USA vs the USA in these wars either. There were/ is also another side that is usually killing civilians ON PURPOSE.

I don't like these wars anymore then the next person, but I dislike history rewrites even more.

[Confusious]

22. Thanks.

I've known the numbers since I was 12 years old, that's why it disgusts me.

Only white people can be racist, fascist scum. :sarcasm:

[apocalypsehow]

25. Like most folks educated in this area of history, I endorse this post in its entirety.

:thumbsup:

I also note that the facts of this post have yet to be refuted, just the interpretations. And they're some anti-historical counter-claims, at that.

Again, well done.

[MicaelS]

26. The Japanese....

Were just as bad as the Nazis. But too many people weep tears for the “victims" of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, as if the Japanese did nothing to start the war in Asia.

The Chinese suffered between 20-35 million casualties during the Japanese invasion of China (1937-1945).

The Japanese forced Korean women into sexual slavery as “comfort women” in field brothels where the women were forced to sexually service, as many as 70 Japanese soldiers a day. In other words these women were raped 70 times a day for years on end.

Everywhere the Japanese conquered, they acted like barbarians toward Allied POWS and civilians. The Japanese beat, starved, tortured and executed men and women. They used living human beings as living test subjects in their infamous biological warfare Unit 731.

People these days find it easy to take some moral high-ground when they are not involved in a war to the knife for the future of civilization. Hindsight is easy.

Finally, I personally think if Truman, who was a Democrat, had not used the bomb out of moral scruples, and Operation Downfall had gone ahead, then America would have suffered terrible casualties. The truth about the bomb would have come out. And I think Truman would have been impeached and possibly executed for Treason (and deservedly so).

And yes I watched Zinn's Three Holy Wars video. I think he was a a very foolish man for making the statements he did in this video.

[geek tragedy]

27. Testimony by Japanese leaders--now there's an unbiased source!

"Yes, the evil Americans bombed us needlessly. We really only wanted peace."

The Japanese military almost deposed Hirohito for trying to surrender--AFTER the bomb was dropped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ky%C5%ABj%C5%8D_Incident

More to the point, there was no external evidence that the Japanese--who had fought fanatically to the death in the Pacific on countless islands--were ready to surrender without a fight.