Nostalgia for the old days

[noamnety]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=106&topic_id=26858

[Cary]

1. Obama hatred has supplanted Bush hatred for too many n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

6. Not to mention

Message Discipline LLC's hatred for anything remotely resembling the actual Democratic party that existed before the DLC crawled out of the 666th circle of Hell.

[noamnety]

7. I wouldn't have phrased it that way here

but I think it's an interesting response to the post you're replying to.

I was missing some of the organized activism we used to do against the war, even when it meant getting in the faces of democrats.
I saw the first reply as off topic, since my post had nothing to do with Obama. Yours as a response to that is interesting - is it because of people's personal views of Obama that they/we stopped protesting against the thing we so strongly opposed funding such a short time ago? Or is it not about personality, but about understanding (at whatever level) that democrats are now engaged in message discipline the way republicans were for the last decade, and the general public is expected to fall into that as well (not just elected/party officials).

I read a little of that also in the responses to Kucinich asking what if we can't stop the oil gush? The outrage wasn't about the consequences if we can't stop it, but rather it was outrage that his question doesn't follow message discipline for democrats (that this is under control).

[Go2Peace]

10. A LOT of us see what you are seeing. But the messaging effort is day and night

It has been stepped up the last couple of weeks as well. They almost all come out of GD P. Almost NOTHING that get's posted "on message" does not get immediately rec'd to the "greatest", regardless if it is new information or really of interest. Those that do not meet "message" are unrec'd and never rise out of that forum.

They are screwing DU. I have no doubt that if they get their way the site *will* become something completely different than it was. Too some extent it already is. The only reason they have not yet "won" that message war is because their ratio is still a minority as most new accounts seem to be more progressive.

[noamnety]

16. I'm not discounting that. I am getting at something slightly different here though.

The activist corps or other calls of action in general used to be a big thing on DU, and the admins and mods promoted it. Looking at the forum now, and I am as much at fault as anyone because I dropped out of it, I see that there are a few dedicated people posting there, but it's mostly dead.

It's not just "message" - it's action that I miss. And I think there are issues that most of us agree on still (although I could be wrong). Surely there must be some?

So imagine if on issue X, half the board said "obama's screwing this up, he shouldn't be doing this" and the other half said "he needs to do it this way to be pragmatic, he doesn't have the votes otherwise." But generally, we all got that issue X was a bad thing about to happen. I notice that there's no big mass effort on our parts to call our representatives and bully them into supporting the position we want on that issue. Recognizing pragmatism/compromise has become synonymous with supporting the Obama position, instead of fighting to get him the votes he needs to be able to make the right decision without compromise.

Or sometimes, like the CEO pay, the votes were already there, it's hard to understand the logic behind the switch there, but I don't see a big call to action about it.

I'm not sure if that's all about message discipline; I don't think it is. I think it's also a sense of fatalism after watching the insurance bill go through, that with all the activism in the world we can't make things happen right.

[Go2Peace]

19. You don't see the constant messaging effort?

Watch GD P for just a couple of days. You will see it clear as day. Less than 10 people are behind much of the division and emotionally heavy handed posting on this site.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. And that is precisely the reason I stay out of GD P

LOL

[Sebastian Doyle]

24. Except they're now spreading it over the entire board

Which was the entire purpose of reply #1. ;)

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. And that is precisely the reason I stay out of GD P

LOL

[noamnety]

25. I'm gonna just let that go without comment

because I am today just saying that this was an old post of Earl's that I appreciated, and I thought posts like that coming from the top down helped make us a community with common goals that translated into action outside of DU. Recently the administrators have ahd to put a lot into the moderating efforts ;) but I did like when they, as the site administrators, took stands directly on issues and encouraged action on those issues.

[EFerrari]

31. Maybe we could have an "organizing" thread in GD on Sunday night.

Where people could throw in their bid for what we could work on during the week. It would be worth a shot. We'd have to resist the temptation to make it about Obama and to stay focused on the issue itself. But it might be a way to get things on a more active and positive footing.

[noamnety]

37. I like it.

Getting back to the issues, yes.

[Individualist]

9. Hear, hear!

[keroro gunsou]

17. not to nitpick but....

hell only has nine circles. you're thinking of the abyss.

god, i am such a gamer geek.... :evilgrin:

[Sebastian Doyle]

23. Satan has expanded his operations a lot since Dante's Inferno was written

Hell, the Bush Crime Family alone has an entire circle of Hell all to themselves (along with their known associates like Hitler, Reagan, Nixon, Jack Ruby, Osama Bin Laden, etc.)

[EFerrari]

28. LOL

:)

[Bluebear]

13. Thank goodness Bush operatives weren't here spamming us night & day during his terms.

[awoke_in_2003]

47. you mean terms like "surge"

nah, the dems stay away from that one, even when they are doing it.

[leftstreet]

45. What bullshit. No one here 'hates' Obama n/t

[Cary]

52. ROTFLMAO

Yeah, right.

[SargeUNN]

2. teabaggers are wanting nostalgia also

I can live without theirs and honestly I would be nostalgic for the days when we could work toward a goal together on the left even when we disagreed on other issues, but I fear that is more of a pipe dream than a real possiblity. We are as vicious as the right these days in if you are not 100% with me then you are the enemy.

[Enrique]

3. back when we fought against war supplementals

back when we discussed war supplementals.

(by the way, the war supplemental is pending in Congress now).

[noamnety]

4. You're right - I haven't seen any discussion of the pending one here

silence on that.

[Go2Peace]

11. everything is response to pundits and talking points. Substance is muted

What they don't understand is that in trying to yell over the pundits they are doing the same thing the pundits do.

That is the problem of using the same approach as the Republicans do with messaging, etc... You end up encorporating some of the values that have gotten us to where we are. You become like them little by little.

[Go2Peace]

30. We spend so doggone much money on war and military

It is the "elephant in the room". Imagine what kind of economy and life could be made with a cut of 50%? And we would still outspend the world by leaps on defence.

[awoke_in_2003]

48. oh, but discussing things like that now...

are equal to hating Obama. You never really liked Obama, did you? :sarcasm:

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. I love looking at the names on those old threads

Lots of good folk who don t post anymore.

[pecwae]

50. At least one who can't -

Sapphire Blue. Her death was such a loss and her work on poverty and mountain top removal is missed. She was one of the most compassionate members I've ever known here.

[MineralMan]

8. This will not end well.

Mark my words.

[noamnety]

12. It's a belated appreciation thread for Earl.

My Plan B today was a "warm vibes for my sick cat please" thread, but I figured that would erupt into a flamefest over whether it would be merciful or abusive to have her put to sleep.

[EFerrari]

14. So sorry to hear about your kitty.

:(

[Oregone]

33. Has he banned himself yet retroactively for not toeing the centrist, pragmatic party line?

[noamnety]

36. I doubt that

but I admit I did chuckle at the image of him sitting alone in his office firing off a warning message to himself. :D

[awoke_in_2003]

49. no, it will not end well...

because there are a lot of people here that are against the WOT, and there are a lot of people that think that now that we hold the power the war is OK. Same thing with the patriot act, guantanamo bay, extraordinary rendition, waterboarding, habeus corpus, warrantless wiretapping, etc. It wasn't right when Bush did it, it isn't right now.

[EFerrari]

15. I've started to think about this as the difference between

people who are mainly interested in party politics and people whose main interest is social justice. Main, not sole.

But, yeah, I miss the actions we used to put together. They were fun and I really enjoyed them. :hi:

[Go2Peace]

18. That's because the group of people propagating this *are* political first

They are most likely paid. They are on here day and night posting OPs constantly. They have formed a coordinated effort. They never stop. Either they are paid to do it or they have really out of balance lives.

But they have done their job well, they have divided the site and dominated much of the discussion here.

[noamnety]

20. IBTL

shit, it's my own thread. Forget I said that. :D

Seriously, I'm trying not to take the thread in that sort of finger pointy direction because I don't know that anything constructive can come out of that. I think both sides have pretty firmly entrenched beliefs on that point.

[EFerrari]

26. DU is a big place. And psychodrama aside,

it's an amazing resource as well as the locus of many friendships formed around many topics. I don't see that changing any time soon.

[Go2Peace]

27. That is why I am here as well.

There is information here that you just can't get many other places. And the majority here is still very progressive, despite the prominance of spammed OPs.

[EFerrari]

29. I'm not great at just "letting the phone ring"

but that's the plan I have for a while. Focus on the issues I care about and can contribute to. Everything else is probably not for me right now.

Let see how it works. :)

[Oregone]

38. Can you really get paid to post on DU?

Please, send me links. I will gladly apply. I don't care if I'm advocating bestial porn or child aramaments...just cut me a juicy check

[Go2Peace]

40. Corporations do it and I am pretty sure that *both* parties do. The government also

is involved in Web and TV propaganda. That is well known. They have a budget and write stories that they pay journalists in some countries to use. Here they probably do not pay them (Journalists), but rather use other methods to get them to use messaging. We have a HUGE and growing propaganda budget. The government was caught (during Bush) trying to change Wikipedia articles.

I could not do it, even if I was paid. I believe that information distortion is a HUGE part of why Democracies all over the world struggle. Transparency is absolutely necessary to democracy.

[treestar]

43. Maybe it's you who is being paid

This accusation is ridiculous. Unprovable and just lame.

It would be just as easy to say the Rs are cleverly creating the disruption from the far left. They loved attacking the strengths of candidates, thinking it so clever. This would seem clever to them, too, and you can just see them salivating over it. Oh, they're being attacked by their own party! They're imploding! We're gonna get our country back.

[Oregone]

32. But that thread got no RECs...it couldn't have been welcomed here!

:)

[EFerrari]

34. Is that a tick in your sig line or are you just happy to see me?

lol

:)

[Oregone]

35. Cockroach

They just might be able to make it through disaster capitalism to feed on our corpses. Just a happy thought I was having.

[Sebastian Doyle]

39. So in other words

...it's Message Discipline LLC's new mascot? ;)

[demmiblue]

41. Wow, what a great and uplifting place DU used to be!

I guess notoriety and money changes a place. Very sad.

[treestar]

42. A lot of the same people are still here!

and that was before the 06 elections.

DU was more united with the right wing in power.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

44. Yes, let's bring back DU activism!

A few issues I think we could work on:

Gitmo
Shutting down the torture centers overseas
Out of Iraq - for real
The drone war in Pakistan
Civil liberties including the assassination of American citizens

I think that makes for a healthy start.

[awoke_in_2003]

46. oh shit...

a real "whoops, there it is" moment. The party used to be against war. Well, as a liberal, I guess I better STFU now.

[rug]

51. EarlG must have been a purity troll.