Boys and their toys, a.k.a. My dick is bigger than your dick

[unhappycamper]

So, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin watched a test flight yesterday of the Sukhoi built T-50 PAK-FA fighter, nosed around its cockpit, and promptly declared it better than the F-22 Raptor. Now that’s an impressive marketing campaign; although, I’m not sure how much real cred the Putin seal of approval carries. I do know the Russians are desperate to revive the fortunes of a flagging defense industry whose products must now compete globally with low cost Chinese knock-offs.

“This machine will be superior to our main competitor, the F-22, in terms of maneuverability, weaponry and range,” Putin told the pilot after the flight, according to an account on the government website.

Putin said the plane would cost up to three times less than similar aircraft in the West and could remain in service for 30 to 35 years with upgrades, according to the report.”

I wonder if the F-22 loving (and JSF hating) Air Power Australia folks have anything to say about the PAK-FA versus the Raptor. Oh, look, here’s a comparison:

“Fights between the F-22A and the PAK-FA will be close, high, fast and lethal. The F-22A may get ‘first look’ with the APG-77, the Advanced Infra Red Search and Track (AIRST) sensor having been deleted to save money, but the PAK-FA may get ‘first look’ using its advanced infrared sensor. Then, the engagement becomes a supersonic equivalent of the Battle of Britain or air combat over North Korea. The outcome will be difficult to predict as it will depend a lot on the combat skills of the pilots and the capabilities of the missiles for end-game kills. There is no guarantee that the F-22 will prevail every time.”

unhappycamper comment: At $355 million a pop I would have hoped the F-22 would come out more than even. I know the most expensive fighter jet in the world has moisture and corrosion problems, but just even? Why did we buy them?

[chillspike]

1. We're competitors?

What happened to the "Restart" button?

[saltpoint]

2. If corporations are now considered people, can individual people buy

fighter jets?

I'll take half a dozen, in a variety of colors, please.

[conspirator]

5. The right to bare a fighter jet?

You need a fighter jet licence. And assault fighter jets are not available to civilians

[saltpoint]

6. Well, darn. And we'd gone ahead and built the runways in the back

yard.

[arcadian]

12. Nice, haven't seen the old Calypso logo in a long time.

:thumbsup:

[saltpoint]

13. Hi, arcadian. Good to see you.

Yep. I thought with recent events it was time to dust it off and send in a donation.

Hope all's well your way.

:hi:

[arcadian]

14. You too, saltpoint

Cousteau cultivated my love for the ocean when I was at a very young age.

Have a great rest of the weekend! :hi:

[saltpoint]

15. "Off the coast of Africa / Bound for South America ...

- - -

"Off the coast of Africa
Bound for South America
A world away from here
Is a man who sails the sea
Is a man who's just like me
And I wish that I was there!"

--James Taylor, "Lighthouse"


- - -

Cousteau is one of the true pioneers. Brave, smart, and true.

:thumbsup:

[Bitwit1234]

3. It's not the size...it's how you use it.

[bigwillq]

16. Only people with small ones

say that! :rofl: :evilgrin:

:hi:

[flamin lib]

4. I've been saying for years that we should out-source military

procurement just as we have everything else.

It would have several advantages:

The competition builds cheaper stuff, so there's a tax savings.

We would know exactly what the enemy's capabilities are 'cause we're using their stuff.

It would end the ever more expensive escalation of arms races.

Next I propose that the Pentagon have bake sales to pay for what they want like schools do.

[Poiuyt]

8. U.S. buys Russian choppers for Afghan military

WASHINGTON - The U.S. government is snapping up Russian-made helicopters to form the core of Afghanistan's fledgling air force, a strategy that is drawing flak from members of Congress who want to force the Afghans to fly American choppers instead.

===
The spectacle of using U.S. taxpayer dollars to buy Russian military products is proving a difficult sell in Congress. Some legislators say that the Pentagon never considered alternatives to the Mi-17, an aircraft it purchased for use in Iraq and Pakistan, and that a lack of competition has enabled Russian defense contractors to gouge on prices.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37793266/ns/politics-washington_post/

[PacerLJ35]

22. Russian aircraft are perfect for the Iraqis and Afghans...

What they lack in sophistication and performance they make up for in being simple and easy to maintain. The Iraqis had fits trying to maintain even our old C-130Es we gave them. They wished they had the AN-26, which is no where near as capable as the C-130...but the AN-26 was very simple to maintain and could take a lot of abuse. The C-130s could take abuse too, but it was assumed when they were designed that the crews would operate them as advertised, whereas the AN-26 its assumed they will be overheated, overflown, overloaded and whatever else.

[PacerLJ35]

19. Sorry, you won't catch me flying anything Russian made

[old mark]

7. The Soviets-now the Russians-make superb military aircraft, have since

early WWII when they designed great fighters and attack aircraft to defeat the Luftwaffe and beat the German ground forces: the Schturmovik was one-
http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/Ilyushin-Il-2-Shturmovik.html

and the Yak 3 was another-
http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/Yak-3.html

Sukhoi makes first rate fighters and has for decades. They are competing in the world market and offer a very good products at relative bargain prices....gues who will get the business.


mark

[PacerLJ35]

20. Actually...

Most of the German aircraft were superior...it's just that the Russians made a ton of aircraft and eventually pilot and fuel shortages, plus simply being outnumbered, meant the end to the Luftwaffe on the eastern front.

[Sub Atomic]

9. Don't be hatin' because I've got a big dick.

:rofl:

[B Calm]

25. I had to stop going into nursing homes because the old women

wanted to use mine as a walking cane.

[msongs]

10. as George Carlin says on this subject, its Obama vs Putin in the weenie department nt

[WillyT]

11. For You:

Link (especially around the 3:30 mark): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1_bvXMlxHs

Enjoy!

:hi:

[benEzra]

17. The Russians have WAY lower labor costs, and they will probably be building way more units...

since they have already said they are going to sell the aircraft on the export market. If they were paying U.S. union wages/benefits and had to amortize their entire development cost on only 183 airplanes, the per-plane price probably wouldn't be all that different.

One reason the F-35 will be cheaper (though not nearly as much as once advertised) is that the development and startup costs will be amortized over far more aircraft. Another reason is that a whole lot of the F-35 R&D (including engine core and a lot of the avionics development) was already paid for using F-22 funding.

[PacerLJ35]

18. Wow, someone who actually understands how it works...amazing...

The F-22 was designed and fielded because it was only a matter of time until someone like the Russians or Chinese developed something along those lines. Countries like Iran, N. Korea or anyone else for that matter sporting aircraft like the PAK-FA would have a very large advantage over legacy F-15 and F-16 aircraft.

Trying to compare the cost of the US fighter to the cost of Russian aircraft isn't even in the same ballpark. As stated above, US products cost more because we do most of the baseline R&D while the Russians often benefit from being bystanders, not to mention they don't pay their workers much and Q/A isn't all that great.

[donheld]

21. Why are you checking out my dick?

:D

[awoke_in_2003]

23. this post is useless without video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdboZcFlpUg

[Major Hogwash]

24. The F-35 will kick its ass!!!

Then we will have the fastest, mostest lethal, most expensive jet in the world once again.
Mue-ha-ha-ha!
Our evil genius master plan to build hugh expensive things is beyond their futile imaginations!!
Until they see pictures of it on the internet.
Yet, they are powerless against our 3-D animations!
They have no idea that the F-35 is just a precursor to the F-45, an even faster, even more expensive jet with its own 3-D animations!!

And we're not stopping there - not until we reach warp factor 2, Scotty!!