Why is police violence so acceptable to Americans?

[Bonobo]

Below is just one of many, many videos I could find and post as examples of how police in Japan do not resort to violence even when the opportunity is given to them to do so.
In the below video, you will see a drunken man, angrily swinging his arms and resisting a police officer who is trying to lead him into the police box to find out what has happened.

To the police, he may be a drunken punk, but he is not consider a dangerous "toehr" that needs to be beaten and subdued at the first sign of resistance. He is regarded with a sense of protective duty. The police officer knows it is his job to take this person seriously, as a PERSON.

Please, if you are interested in using a cross-cultural analysis approach to looking at your own culture in an objective way, have a look at the video and ask yourself "Why do US police react so differently?" Then ask yourself why America allows and indeed encourages the creation of such a violently trained police force in the US.

If you are into supporting American police behavior with circular arguments such as "They act exactly as they are trained!", I do not think we can gain much from this discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EboS1OCeYGc

[PM Martin]

1. ???

:shrug:

[DonCoquixote]

3. Because

While there are many instances where the police are out of line, the criminals tend to be extremely seasoned and violent. It's one thing to deal with a drunk, another to deal with someone on meth or pcp that will break their own hand just to smash your face.

[Bonobo]

4. Does that go for Jaywalkers too? nt

[USArmyParatrooper]

47. Was it Jaywalking?

Or was it assaulting a police officer who's by himself trying to arrest someone who's physically resisting?

[USArmyParatrooper]

49. Here's a nice look at Japanese culture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77tqaz_Vjuk

Take a look at how calmly and willingly the Japanese people are at being stopped and searched without cause.

[Bonobo]

60. These are the worst examples I could find by a youtuber called "Keisatsuwatch"

meaning "copwatch".

http://www.youtube.com/user/KeisatsuWatch

If that is Japanese culture, I would happily swap it for US beatdown, terrorist culture.

You think you got freedom cause polite cops don't ask you if they can look in your bag?

Well it happens in NYC subways. You don't have the freedoms you think you have, but you sure do have the illusion of it on paper.

[USArmyParatrooper]

89. That wasn't the point

Look at the unquestioning complicity of the Japanese citizens. What I would like to see, for example, is someone shoving a Japanese cop and what their reaction would be.

[treestar]

74. It seems less efficient than the metal detectors we go through

At certain points.

They are randomly searching bags but many people with bags go past.

I would like to know the location. Here, we might be every person going through a metal detector in similar circumstances.

[midnight]

83. The interaction came out of a Jay walking incident.

I think many who saw the video are wondering why training is so poor as to give an officer so few critical thinking tools that he uses is his fist.

[USArmyParatrooper]

90. It *started* from Jaywalking

Why do people blame the cops because a couple of morons act unruly? The first woman should have simply stopped to either receive her citation or receive her warning. The second woman shouldn't have put her hands on the police officer.

[SkyDaddy7]

107. "assaulting a police officer"?????

Had she punched the police officer as he did her then I would agree...That was not the case. And it was very clear that cop was not the least bit worried about being by himself! Yes, she was wrong in doing what she did but the police officer should be fired for what he did! Or at least taken off the streets and put through an intense training course on how to remain calm and professional while doing his job as a public servant.

I know, that is asking way too much and that is why the police do what they do on a regular basis...No one policing the police!

Just like tazzing old women and children, pregnant women or folks who refuse to sign tickets or try to ask a cop questions as they have the right to do...Basically anything short of complete and total submission and abandoning one's constitutional rights will get you tazzed in America today.

Tazzers were sold to the public as a means for police officers to be able to subdue a person with a knife or high on drugs or trying to commit suicide by cop instead of shooting them...However, cops still shoot in these situations just as they did before and use the tazzers on the general public for almost anything!

Cops uncontrolled bad behavior is not limited to the streets...They lie in court on a regular basis & when a good defense lawyer catches them they almost never lose their job. Cops will discuss testimony in an ongoing trial with other cops who have yet to testify & again when caught they rarely lose their job. Cops lie and change police reports and when caught almost never lose their jobs. In all the above examples plus tons more usually the worst possible punishment a cop would get is being forced to "resign" not get fired...And that is rare! "Resigning" allows a cop to simply go work for another law enforcement agency. Where the behavior continues.

This is just a small set of examples why cops have grown so violent and unprofessional in America.

[leftstreet]

7. Uh...violent crime is at it's lowest since the mid 70s

Incarceration rates, however, are at their highest

Something strange there...

[slackmaster]

13. The reason for high incarceration rates is Nixon's War On (some) Drugs

The timing is not a coincidence.

[Taitertots]

19. Maybe arresting more criminals lowers the crime rate n/t

[Fumesucker]

23. Bar fight..

Barroom brawl..

Don't listen to him, it's the liquor talking..

Ten feet tall and bulletproof..

The violence inducing properties of alcohol are well known enough to have entered the language..

Indeed, there are entire movies about the violence inducing properties of alcohol..

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098206/

[Th1onein]

113. Yeah, right.

Those jaywalkers were so seasoned, I tell ya! And jaywalking, well......one of the most violent crimes, too.

[leftstreet]

2. Because Americans identify with the Ruling Class and want the same protections

Because there is absolutely no class consciousness in this country

[H2O Man]

73. True.

I agree.

[mr1956]

5. I think it's because they get violent with groups considered powerless

I couldn't find statistics to back this up but it appears to happen in urban settings against the poor and minorities. I think most police departments are majority white and not from the communities they police. There seems to be a us versus them mentality where the citizens they are charged to protect are seen as the enemy.

I looked for statistics to prove or disprove my perception but I didn't find any recent studies. It seems after 9/11 Americans have lumped the police into this group called "heroes" for supposedly keeping us safe so most don't want to look at what is really going on in the country.

[Bonobo]

6. When they stopped having cops from the neighborhood walking the beat...

Things probably really went downhill from there.

But there are 2 questions really.

1. Why are American cops trained to be so violent and

2. Why do the American people so willingly support it

I think the answer to number 2 has a lot to do with fear of strangers in a multi-cultural society. And, of course, racism.

[slackmaster]

14. Because 1. Their training is inadequate, and 2. I disagree that Americans willingly support it

I don't.

[Kievan Rus]

42. I'm not sure racism explains it entirely

Worse case of modern police brutality I can think of was during the G-20 in Pittsburgh...and the vast majority of the victims were white.

Most cops are like the goofy parody/cariacature of Russell Crowe presented in a "South Park" episode that aired in the early 2000s...beating people up because they themselves are insecure. Cops like that may act tough, but deep down, they're very insecure.

[Joe the Liberal]

8. Why?

Because over the decades America has turned into a degenerate, fascist-lite, cesspit where cops on powertrips beating people is just normal.

[Greyhound]

9. Daryl Gates.

:kick:

[slackmaster]

10. Japanese people are subservient to the police, Americans not so much

In Japan the police have the power to enter and search private homes and businesses at any time. No warrants are needed.

Japanese are much less likely to be uncooperative with police. They're taught from childhood to regard police as authority figures, whereas Americans view them as public servants. The Japanese justice system does not offer criminal defendants luxuries like the presumption of innocence or jury trials for most crimes. Conviction rates in Japan are close to 100%, so messing with cops is almost certain to get you sentenced to prison.

Police violence is NOT acceptable to Americans, but it doesn't usually happen when people simply do as they are told.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1anM0Cnx_Y&feature=related

[1620rock]

11. The cops here are going nuts again as they did in the 60's.

[slackmaster]

12. Then as now, police violence was rarely unprovoked

I'm not by any means saying that people who get their asses beaten by cops deserve it, but it doesn't often happen in a vacuum. It's usually an inappropriate response to an uncooperative suspect. It's wrong, and the root causes are mainly, poor screening of people hired to work as officers, poor training, and lack of resources (i.e. backup).

[Bonobo]

15. Here's some good unprovoked examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svMi0rI9GV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmByfTKKUV4&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibSwITK4jjQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB_Hl4bcQNc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9hS0ZhpFPA&feature=related

And there are hundreds more.

Your eyes are closed.

[slackmaster]

16. I just watched the first one. It's late and I need sleep.

You can't seriously be saying the driver of that car was cooperative.

I agree the cop was too quick with the weapon, but that person was behaving in a manner that would be almost unheard of in Japan, and is not so unusual for an American.

[Art_from_Ark]

93. Article 35 of Japan's Constitution

Article 35. The right of all persons to be secure in their homes, papers and effects against entries, searches and seizures shall not be impaired except upon warrant issued for adequate cause and particularly describing the place to be searched and things to be seized, or except as provided by Article 33.
Each search or seizure shall be made upon separate warrant issued by a competent judicial officer.

Article 33 pertains to searches and seizures of people caught in the act of committing a crime.

[wolfgangmo]

122. Busted. Bam. Down for the count.

.

[ManiacJoe]

17. Bad choice of example video?

When Americans are that compliant, they are treated the same way by the cops.

[jp11]

18. I agree, a drunk in a police station simply waving their arms or just 'not sitting still or being

quiet' is probably not going to get beat up or tazered with other cops or witnesses around.

To the OP's point I think it may be US police are taught that their lives are always at risk and that the public/criminals are not worth losing their own lives over, so response of deadly force or simply overreacting is okay to protect yourself. Some of that is real but obviously you'd think that the mentality of 'he's gonna kill me' could be put away when they clearly aren't a mortal threat and the situation doesn't require insane force to regain 'control' rather it is used to make the officer feel better for being questioned or 'disrespected' whether it actually happened or if it was just in their mind.

Why people accept the abuse of police in america well probably because the thought is, secretly in some, that the person deserved it I think most of the time it has to be clearly shown and pointed out that the response was more than needed or defenders jump back to 'you don't know what they face day to day' with the idea that the police have to fear for their lives from every person they encounter so again overreacting in their book is justified for them to protect their lives. There is also the response that if the person just did what they were told, regardless of the situation or the way the officer reacts or handles it, then nothing would have happened the 'you see it is your fault'. We are expected to blindly obey police at all times because they often have no problem using violence to contain people, it is crazy really where the public has to fear the police because they can act like psychotic robots that get set off by the wrong input.

Really it is hard to compare one culture to another as someone above mentions their legal system is completely different compared to ours so how or why the police there might be more understand or civil I can't really say.

[slackmaster]

27. I totally disagree with the premise that people "accept" police abuses in America

Police who abuse their power should be punished and/or retrained. I don't think anyone, even cops and their staunchest defenders, are willing to let them slide when they cross the line into inappropriate use of force.

[Taitertots]

48. As one of the staunchest defenders, I agree with this statement

We all disagree about just where that line should be drawn.

Personally, I think all police officers should have to wear multiple video recording devices. Devices, which if turned off should result in a presumption of guilt for the police.

[Bonobo]

63. How about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnPykaGjHc&feature=related

[slackmaster]

69. I'd love to see footage of what went down later in an interrogation room

Of course we don't get to see that part.

The Japanese criminal justice system has a very high conviction rate. Most people who are charged with crimes confess, and many of those confessions are obtained through coercion. There was no jury system from 1943 until just a few years ago. A defendant has always been presumed guilty.

[treestar]

76. good training

maybe some sort of martial art.

[WestSeattle2]

87. The latest viral video showing a Seattle cop punching a jaywalker

in the face, actually illustrates why violence is sometimes necessary. The jaywalker shoved the cop while a young man in the video standing off to the side is shown holding a pistol. Cops cannot allow situations to spin out of control under any circumstance, but especially when they're outnumbered in a hostile environment.

Don van Blaricom - http://www.jurispro.com/files/documents/doc-805758838-resume.pdf - is an expert witness in cases involving police actions. He calls them like he sees them, testifying for both plaintiffs and defendants. His comment regarding this latest Seattle police video is that the officer exercised excellent judgement and restraint.

The jaywalker has since apologized to the cop and has been charged with third degree assault on a police officer.

Bottom line - American culture resents authority. There are avenues to express frustration with authority; physically assaulting or verbally attacking cops is not one of them. The vast majority of American citizens of all races, manage to make it through life with little or no interaction with police; while others seem to go out of their way to invite interaction.

Is unjustified force used by police? Absolutely. That's why communities need to be involved and hold police, and especially police chief's accountable for the culture in their departments. Respect is a two-way street.

[asdjrocky]

20. The cops are some of the highest paid employees in Stockton Ca.

Don't know about everywhere else. Of the top 143 paid city employees in Stockton making more than 100 thousand a year, more than half are cops. The median household income is well less than 50k. A sargent on the police force made nearly 250 thousand dollars in 2009, because of overtime. They look down on the "little people" of Stockton, and it's always been that way here.

Right now a large percentage of Stockton is unemployed and poor and we have little in common with the people that police us. I don't know anyone in my neighborhood that would think to call the cops for help unless there was nothing left to do.

I'll end it by saying what I always say about cops, 99% give the rest a bad name.

[janet118]

28. It's same in my town - the police get the top pay

And it is nowhere near a major city, yet cops rove around like they are in LA or Baghdad. My 17-year-old son was arrested with 7 of his friends for "fighting" when they were just fooling around with each other on the sidewalk after a skateboard contest. One 85-pound girl who spoke out, asking police why the boys were being arrested, had her face smashed up against a police car and was arrested as well. Every cop in town was at the scene. A local reporter said that, listening to the police band radio, you'd think it was the Watts riots. After a year of legal fees, all the cases against were dismissed.

These are the same "heroes" who:

• Shot an unarmed teen who was trying to break into a liquor store to get a beer
  
• Ran down an old woman and her caretaker, killing the elderly lady and crippling her caretaker, while the women were in a crosswalk going to church
  
• Chased a group of teens in a car that ended up hitting a telephone pole and killing one of them
  
• Shot and killed a mentally ill man who was armed with a pipe when his family called them for help
  

All of the cops involved in these incidents are still on the force and still highly paid.

[asdjrocky]

30. You said the magic word-

Skateboard. Carrying your board is like a sign that says "mess with me" to a lot of cops. I've seen it here up close and personal too many times.

To serve and protect, what a hoot. Sure, if you're talking about serving the moneyed class and protecting their property, for the rest of us, not so much.

[PM Martin]

39. Thank you for informing us that the Plymouth Massachusetts are garbage.

:thumbsup:

[bemildred]

66. Social class distinctions have to be enforced. That's part of the cops job. nt

[Kablooie]

21. Because they protect us all like this:

[Nye Bevan]

22. The police have always behaved with utmost courtesy and professionalism

in all of my interactions with them.

I think the trick is to treat the police politely, with respect, and let them do their job, as opposed to getting drunk and/or high and behaving like an obnoxious and potentially dangerous moron.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. What's the visible spectrum reflexive power of your epitelial tissue relative to population average?

[patrice]

29. probably higher than average, lower than average are often not treated politely by police

[slackmaster]

26. Me too, except when I was young and being a dick

I'm 52, haven't been in any trouble for decades, and even have friends who are cops now.

[MadHound]

34. Let me guess, you're white, male, and professionally dressed and coifed

I've noticed as a grow older and have cleaned up my personal appearance that police don't mess with me, and my interactions with them have become more courteous and professional. That wasn't always the case.

I spent a few years living in Springfield, Mo. At the time I had long hair, rode a bicycle or walked everywhere, and dressed a bit on the slob side. In that time that I lived down there, I was pulled over by the cops, either when I was walking or riding, a total of eight times. Every time I asked why I was being pulled over I got bullshit, rude, abusive answers. Essentially I had my right violated. Worse yet, the two times I did need the cops, they simply wouldn't come in a prompt and timely manner, even when I was two blocks from the cop shop.

Yeah, cops loves themselves white, middle class or rich folks with short hair and nice clothes. Try dealing with them when you have brown skin or some other feature that they consider out of the ordinary, and see how well that encounter goes.

[Taitertots]

53. They don't hassle me and I'm as unprofessional looking as anyone else

I'm sure it is all them and has nothing to do with how you acted.:sarcasm:

[MadHound]

61. Let's see, how I acted

I rode a bike past them, I was walking down a street. I said nothing to them, and in many cases didn't look at them until they stopped me. I'm sure if I was acting in some way they found unbecoming, I would have been arrested, given a ticket, or something. Instead, I was simply hassled, asked for my license, questioned about what I was doing.

Your assumption that this all lies with me simply goes to show how little you've dealt with cops who have an attitude.

And yes, this happens all the time, all throughout this country.

[KansasVoter]

45. LOL........you like in make believe land?

[Taitertots]

56. The best advice to give people is "don't act like a potentially dangerous moron"

Let them do their job and don't act like a potentially dangerous moron and the police won't hassle you.

[TheKentuckian]

70. yeah right damn near crazy talk. The cops are a gawtdamn gang of thugs

Every time I hear such trite bullshit, I'm forced to believe we live in different worlds.

In mine being polite with plenty of sirs and whatnot means being a "wiseass".

[JerseygirlCT]

72. Wish I could say the same.

Though most of the police officers I know are very concerned and professional people, watching my SO get beaten in NYC for having the nerve to ask for directions and cursing as he walked away after a wise-ass and rude answer from the punky little transit cop has left me with decidedly mixed feelings on the issue.

[Fla_Democrat]

92. That's crazy on the surface

Don't you know you're suppose to act indignant? Ask, no, demand to know why they are hassling you. Call them stupid, power hungry, oh, and if you can work the word PIG in there, bonus points. Tell them you pay their salary. Ask them are all the F'ing donuts shops closed. If all that don't work, just haul back and slug them, after all, they are all cowards. :sarcasm:




Sadly, some people can't figure out why the :sarcasm: tag is there.. it sounds like a perfectly legitimate response to dealing with an officer to them. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

24. I just came home from shopping with my friend who has been a cop in both Japan and the USA

Bonobo, you couldn't have picked a worse example of a country to compare with the USA on this one.

Here's a partial approximate transcript of my conversation with "XJC":

slackmaster: "Would it be unusual for a Japanese person to mouth off to a cop who pulled him or her over?"

XJC: "People in Japan don't mouth off to anyone in public. It's just not done."

slackmaster: "What would happen to a person who argued with a cop, or resisted arrest in Japan?"

XJC: "The cops would think you are crazy. They'd take you to the station and beat the living fuck out of you. They don't have any empathy for mentally ill people like we do here."

slackmaster: "Wouldn't the cops get in trouble for that?"

XJC: (laughs) "No. It's legal. That's how they get people to confess to crimes. Japanese cops routinely beat people that they arrest. The penalty for having a small amount of marijuana is 10 years in prison. A person who gets arrested for any kind of illegal drugs will get beaten until he confesses and tells the cops where he got the stuff."

slackmaster: "Wow, that's harsh. I used to work with a guy (American) who got caught with pot in Japan when he was in the Navy. He got deported and a dishonorable discharge."

XJC: "He was lucky. The Navy saved his ass."

slackmaster: "Well, they do have an orderly, polite society."

XJC: (laughs) "You should see how they handle sex offenders. It's common for unmarried women to get flashed. If the cops happen to catch a man doing that, they'll beat the bottoms of his feet with saps, so he'll think about it for the next couple of months every time he walks."

slackmaster: "Wow. Why don't people videotape police brutality there like they do here?"

XJC: "A couple of reasons. One, it's usually done at a police station and two, if they catch you taping an arrest, they'll take your camera and maybe even arrest you."

slackmaster: "Let's go to Trader Joe's." :D

[The Magistrate]

33. Good Points, Sir: Maybe The Real Question is 'Why Is Police Violence Done More Openly In The U.S.?'

[ManiacJoe]

35. Location of the cameras?

Police stations have been wired for audio and video for a long time. Dash cams, cell-phone cameras, and easily portable video cameras are relatively new technology. Until about ten years ago, it was "safer" to do the beating outside the police station.

[The Magistrate]

37. In-Station Beating, Sir, Was Pretty Routine In Older days Here

The point is that in many countries, Japan being one, police beating is routine, and therefore can be taken as socially approved, when performed behind closed doors, but here, police violence in public is fairly routine, and generally goes without sanction against the police involved, which certainly indicates it is socially approved of. The difference is worth remarking on, it seems to me.

[Bonobo]

41. Beating people in the open has the desired effect of instilling fear and respect

in those witnessing it.

[slackmaster]

68. But it's backfiring. People are recording police abuses and posting them on YouTube.

It's not being tolerated because people like you and I aren't putting up with it, now that we have incontrovertible evidence that it happens.

[RobinA]

105. I'm Thinking

that if police beating is, in fact, socially approved of in both cultures (probably), I'd rather have it on the street than behind closed doors.

[slackmaster]

64. I think that most cases of police violence in the USA can be explained as poor training,

Poor screening of applicants for police jobs, and resources stretched too thin.

During my visits to Japan, I've generally seen police working alone only while directing traffic. Most of the time they have at least one partner. When they are taking down a criminal suspect, they work in groups of four or more.

Police violence is more observable in the US because of dashboard cams and a proliferation of good citizens walking around with various recording devices. I think the problem has always existed, we just see it more often now because it gets uploaded to YouTube. That increases the probability that a given incident will lead to termination, discipline, or re-training of an offending officer.

[PM Martin]

38. Police are authority(authoritarians) who keep the status quo.

Don't expect too much out them.

[Kuroneko]

50. Interesting friend you have...

Except that near nothing of this is true. Only the point about pot is correct, and it's not good that american soldiers escape native justice. For the rest, even harsh words could put a police officer career at risk, then beating...

[Bonobo]

54. This is true.

As for secret beatings, for the worst criminals, I can believe it might possibly be true (though I have doubts).

Japanese police are very calm, respectful and well-trained. Citizens are comforted by their presence.

Nihonjin na no?

[Kuroneko]

79. Even for the worst criminals,

It's not true. Of course it could happen but it's not "common", and absolutly illegal.

I would like to share your confidence in the Japanese police, but I know by experience that your compliments are far too generous. But at least, it's a fact that citizens don't fear the police.

Sore de, nihonjin janai ga, nihon ni sunderu.

[Bonobo]

82. osumai ha?

kocchi ha hyogo-ken no himeji ni sundeiru.

keiken tte? tokubetsu no keiken ga aru no? ki no doku ya.

[Kuroneko]

84. Aichiken

About experience, working as contact officer for an embassy, you gain some. Even being contacted by police about some foreigners getting catch believing that Japanese law don't apply to them. And strangely they were not beaten. But getting out was another matter.
On the level of the Japanese police, it's not that is bad, it's that it's not high enough. Except special departments, they are usually like normal salaryman. And during the bubble, only the bottom of the graduate went to the police. They are nice fellows. But with the Japanese system, you're near guilty when you're suspect. And I'm not confident in their capacity to solve problem beyond the obvious.

[Bonobo]

85. Naruhodo.

I bow to your greater experience.

I live on a small island that is rather unusual. We have no convenience stores, no traffic lights and everyone knows each other.

家島というところです。　ちょう田舎だからあんまり都会のことをよく解らない。

How long have you been here and welcome to DU!

[Art_from_Ark]

96. Another Japanese resident

はじめまして。瀬戸内海はすばらしいところですね。
私は首都圏に住んでいます。:hi:

[Bonobo]

100. Hello.

前にも話したことがあるとおもうけど

宜しくお願いします。

もし姫路のあたりに来ることがあったら、是非うちに来てください。

[Art_from_Ark]

101. Kochira koso

もし東京のあたりに来ることがあったら、是非ご連絡ください

[Kuroneko]

115. Wow

A place without combini? I didn't even know that such place still exist.

I'm dreaming about retiring to an island like yours. I love quietness, and Japanese cities are all except quiet.

On the subject, as the rain had stopped today, bosozoku are on the run. I would love to hear the explanation of this by this particular police officer.

For clarification, bosozoku are young people (punk?) who spent their night making noise with their bike in the street. It's difficult to imagine the thing without seeing (and hearing it). Anyway, the best that the police is doing about it, it's following them (with siren, and it doesn't help for the noise).

PS: I'm in Japan long enough to bow at the phone :-)

[Bonobo]

118. I know bosozoku, of course. They are a cancer in the night.

I didn't always live here. I lived in Tokyo for a couple of years as well as Kyoto, Hirakata, Kakogawa. Damned bosozku can drive a sane man to fantasizing about cruel, bloody murders involving hanging people with their own guts ;)

Bosozoku means literally "group of rampagers" (bosou suru=to go wild/rampage)

So I imagine you have been here for a couple of years, eh. I extend an invitation to you and Art from Ark. to come visit sometime if you are ever in Kansai.

A DU Japan meetup!

P.S.> We can invite some of our Japanese friends and go on a Korean hunt to prove the statements of certain other poster's on this thread :)

:sarcasm:

[Kuroneko]

120. Only nice night

We don't hear about during rainy day, and it's the only good point about tsuyu.

About korean, you didn't help with this part of the list:

Crime
Hayashi Yasuo, terrorist in 1995 sarin gas attack by Aum Shinrikyo
Jo Hiroyuki, uyoku assassin
Machii Hisayuki, godfather and founder of Toa-kai yakuza syndicate
Mun Segwang, failed assassin of Park Chung-hee
Obara Joji, serial rapist and murderer
Sin Gwang-su, North Korean spy, involved in North Korean abductions of Japanese
Takayama Tokutaro, godfather of Aizukotetsu-kai yakuza syndicate

I'm sure that they are not very liked in Japan :-)

But except this...

And be careful with your invitation, I could answer it ;-) Do you have onsen?

[Bonobo]

121. There's a couple of onsen in Himeji (Yumesaki), but not on the island.

I'll take you fishing instead, or jet skiing!

Truthfully there is not much to do on the island by the standard measure of Japanese highlife.

Grow a garden, eat super delicious fresh fish and other umi no sacchi. Share gossip with the old folks, etc.

But it is a great place to raise my 3 kids so that they grow up straight and honest and considerate of others. I really like the people I see them becoming since we left the US for good at the start of this year.

Anyway, the offer is very sincere. Really. I totally mean it.

ホンマに

[Kuroneko]

124. Don't dare me

And I'm curious about what you mean by Japanese highlife. As far I'm concerned what you said is largely enough, and from what I've experienced, for Japanese people also as they usually spent time in small circle.

To go back to the subject of this thread, I find interesting the number of people who refuse to even consider that the US police overuse of force. The simple question is perceived as an attack against the police itself.

A lot people think also that the answer is that Japanese people are subservient to the police, and the American not. I've a tendency to think the opposite. The discipline in the Japanese society is more by peer pressure than by the use of authority. The police in Japan is near inexistent as far that the common citizen is concerned. The rapport between citizens and policemen (the omawarisan) confine usually in finding lost object or path. In America, the police seems more used as a mean of control of the population, and then need to inspire fear at default of respect (which is far more difficult to gain).

It's funny how much the defender of the police insist on the fact that you need to treat the police politely, with respect, and let them do their job but never seem to demand the same from the police. It would look to me close from submission.

PS: felicitation for your definitive installation on your island. I think also that you have find a great place for your family (except if money or adventure is you life goal). Our small city is not so good but still good enough :-)

[slackmaster]

65. Interesting choice of handle and subject for a first post. Welcome to DU.

What are your qualifications for accusing my good friend of giving me misinformation about his experiences as a Japanese law enforcement officer?

[Kuroneko]

81. Thank for your welcome

Well I don't know about your friend, but I only noticed that what you said it's not factual.

Some points:
People in Japan don't mouth off to anyone in public. It's just not done.
Well it would be nice if it was the case, but spending one night in a Japanese city can show that, even if drunk japanese people are less prone to violence, their comportment can be very uncivilized. And even sober people can be very vehement in protesting against authority.

slackmaster: "What would happen to a person who argued with a cop, or resisted arrest in Japan?"
XJC: "The cops would think you are crazy. They'd take you to the station and beat the living fuck out of you. They don't have any empathy for mentally ill people like we do here."
Usually, if you try to resist a cop in Japan, he's 1st reflex will be to call for reinforcement. After they will probably take you to the station, and even if it's highly unlikely that you will be beaten, you'll find that the Japanese justice system is suspect friendly. And your comment about the empathy about mentally ill people in Usa is particularly ironic if you consider how much time a mentally ill person is tazerized, or shoot...

slackmaster: "Wouldn't the cops get in trouble for that?"
XJC: (laughs) "No. It's legal. That's how they get people to confess to crimes.
No, it's not legal. And if it's true that Japanese police make a fixation of getting a confession, they don't use violence, but time.

XJC: (laughs) "You should see how they handle sex offenders. It's common for unmarried women to get flashed. If the cops happen to catch a man doing that, they'll beat the bottoms of his feet with saps, so he'll think about it for the next couple of months every time he walks."
No seriously, this need a comment?

And finally about my qualification (for its value on the net...), I've worked, and sometime drink, enough with various police departments in Japan to don't have illusion about them. Nevertheless, for all their defaults, violence it's not one of them.

[Bonobo]

51. The Japanese police leave the non-criminals alone.

They don't intimidate the people all the time. So yes, private beatings? I can believe it. But it would be for real scumbags.

It's like the discussion of torture. America has probably ALWAYS tortured, as Derschowitz will tell you, but when it becomes sanctioned and done openly, you have to worry.

Secretly, citizens want their governments and police to do what is necessary in order to leep a peaceful society, but when it comes out in the open, it is terrorism against your own population.

Your friend is a Japanese? Has he become a US citizen? How could he have been a cop in both countries. It sounds very, very unusual. Almost impossible unless he is a very rare bird.

[slackmaster]

67. Resisting arrest makes you a "real scumbag" in the eyes of Japanese people

In the USA you are expected to cooperate with police. In Japan people are expected to obey them.

...America has probably ALWAYS tortured, as Derschowitz will tell you, but when it becomes sanctioned and done openly, you have to worry.

Here's where you've lost me, Bonobo: It's NOT SANCTIONED. The fact that people are posting videos of police beatings, and that police are being sanctioned (in the other sense) for it, proves that it's not being tolerated. I was amused that you chose Japan for comparison, because I've known for some time that torture isn't just tolerated there, it's institutionalized.

Your friend is a Japanese? Has he become a US citizen? How could he have been a cop in both countries.

He's a naturalized US citizen now. He was born in Japan, attended a UC campus as an undergraduate, returned to Japan, worked as a cop there, then decided he wanted to live in New York City as he attempted to get into acting. He worked for the NYPD, finally gave up on drama, and ended up in San Diego for now. He's worked as a chef, a mechanic, a prison guard, and several other things.

[Art_from_Ark]

102. I get the impression that you like to spout off

about things you really don't know anything about.

"I've known for some time that torture isn't just tolerated there, it's institutionalized."
Care to back that up with some real facts? Or is it just hearsay from your friend?

Torture is prohibited by the Japanese Constitution, as are warrantless searches and seizures, unless they are made at the scene of a crime. The Japanese police cannot enter my house any time they want to.

And what is the difference between "cooperating" with the police and obeying them? If an American cop tells me to "Get on the ground", am I to assume he is mere asking for my cooperation and is not going to do anything if I don't get on the ground? Or is he going to taser me if I don't get on the ground?

[pipoman]

126. Exactly

XJC: "A couple of reasons. One, it's usually done at a police station and two, if they catch you taping an arrest, they'll take your camera and maybe even arrest you."

I believe this is the case in most countries.

[Festivito]

31. In part because we accept greater disparity of income.

We accept that some people are better than other humans, not by how they do what they do, rather by how they were born.

The police have more respect for others in Japan. Here, they don't.

The societal structure in Japan has police as judges and they administer justice almost always immediately. This justice involves clear rules that say the bigger is more at fault followed by martial art styled holds if needed. Holds that DO NOT CAUSE BRUISES. This bigger-at-fault concept is hard for us to understand because we believe the rich are less at fault. Not so there. A bicycle hits a car, the car is more at fault, more responsible. A percentage will be assessed and each will pay. The police will listen to reason and may reduce the bicycle in this case to 1%. The car driver at that point will probably relent and not take any payment from the bicyclist. Going to an actual judge, it is known, will make both parties hurt.

Here, the rich guy in a car gets an expensive lawyer and ends up having the bicyclist apologizing to him ala Dick Cheney shooting a friend.

If a Japanese policeman causes a bruise that a judge can see, his career is done.

The person is respected. That is less and less true here.

[Art_from_Ark]

123. If a bicycle and a car have an accident here in Japan

the police don't make any judgments unless there's an injury involved.
But yes, the concept of "bigger is more at fault" does apply here. Which can be really irritating when I'm driving around a blind corner at night and nearly hit a bicyclist who is riding without a light in the wrong lane and texting on their cell phone to boot.

[branders seine]

32. 50 years of fascist propaganda

and docility training

[bobbolink]

36. F-E-A-R

We are trained well to be frightened of everything, and reacting from fear breeds acceptance of violence.

[Kievan Rus]

40. American mass media appeals to the lowest common denominator

[KonaKane]

43. Because Americans have been trained to worship authority

An incredible paradox considering the way our nation was founded.

[KansasVoter]

44. Because people are too dumb in this country to realize cops are not always good people.

[USArmyParatrooper]

46. What specific incident are you comparing it to?

That might help.

[Bonobo]

52. There are far too many examples of public police brutality.

Try doing a search on Youtube for "police" and "brutality".

Perform the same search in Japanese, as I have, and you will not see any despite the fact that there are even more video cell phones over there, many more.

[USArmyParatrooper]

55. Can you show me footage

Of someone assaulting a police officer in Japan?

[Bonobo]

57. I can easily find examples of where it is close enough that A US cop

would have beaten, tasered or shot the individual.

The drunk in the OP link is one example in my opinion but I didn't look very hard.

The fact is, IMO, that US cops start out with the assumption that if anything starts going south, they will taser or mace or beat the indvidual.

whereas, in Japan, they start with the assumption that that will not happen and they will talk and (if needed) bully there way through the situation.

If actual violence ever occured, I daresay the cops would wade in with billyclubs, but most of the time, it doesn't.

In many, may youtube videos, we see people tasered during speeding stops or DUI stops as soon as there is the slightest provocation. Itchy trigger fingers made itchier by training that says "As soon as you feel the slightest threat to your personal well-being, you are authorized to whip out the can of whoop-ass".

Starting with very different assumptions.

[USArmyParatrooper]

88. The OP was a bad example

One of the two drunks was completely cooperative. The other a bit belligerent but at no time assaulted any officer. Both were surrounded and completely outnumbered by multiple cops.

I think the Japanese people tend to be much, much more cooperative with authority figures as shown in the youtube clip I posted. Just imagine if a US cop began stopping random people on the street and searching their bags. The Japanese cops didn't get a single angry gesture or even a questioning word.

[Bonobo]

62. Look at this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnPykaGjHc&feature=related

[USArmyParatrooper]

91. That's a good example, BUT

I don't speak Japanese but it appears this isn't something candid, caught on camera. It looks like some Japanese version of cops, or some instructional video of sorts.

In fairness to your point I think many US cops would have mixed reactions to the slap. Some I think would have handled it like he did, others might have punched him and then took him down. All of these videos are just anecdotes, and I'd actually like to see a Japanese cop being assaulted that isn't actively participating in a video.

[Obamanaut]

99. Your arguments/rebuttals are a waste of your time. There are many

for whom 'US police' and 'jack booted thugs' are synonymous, and they will not be swayed.

[salguine]

58. I'm still trying to interpret "toehr".

[Bonobo]

59. Ooops, "other". Typed too fast. nt

[TheKentuckian]

71. Because cops are taught that we are perps not citizens

Because cops believe they are the law not it's enforcers.

Because cops do not believe the law applies to them.

Because cops are taught that they are above and apart from civilians.

Because the mission is neither to protect or serve.

Because police work attracts the criminal minded.

Because we are a nation of cowards.

Because most of the abuse happens to minorities and the poor who are seen as little different than feral animals.

Because large segments of the populace crave the presence of authoritarian figures to provide the illusion of safety.

Because attractive women of all sorts and comfortable white folks seldom bear the brunt of the jackboots so they have the luxury of pretending their is no problem or if there are issues then the victim must have brought it upon themselves.

Maybe most of all because money and power are almost never held accountable in this country and so there is no incentive to do better.

[RedRoses323]

104. +100

:kick:

[treestar]

75. What gun laws does Japan have?

Here the cops seem confident the guy does not have a gun.

They don't even use handcuffs on him - they don't seem to carry them, even. (Maybe I missed it, though)

[Bonobo]

78. Citizens are not allowed to possess guns except...

rifles and shotguns for hunting.

[Alenne]

77. We are a violent society. nt

[miscsoc]

103. seconded, i think that's what it boils down to

americans like seeing people with power hurt the weak, this explains 90% of everything unique and horrible about america

[tekisui]

80. Ususally the ones getting beaten or killed in the US are black.

It is largely due to our racist history. It lead to the social injustices and discrimination that exist today. It lead to policies of poverty. It lead to cultures of crime. It lead to Americans looking the other way when black men are disproportionately arrested, incarcerated, beaten and shot.

[proteus_lives]

95. I wonder how the Japanese police would treat a Korean?

Japan is one of the most racist nations on Earth.

[Bonobo]

97. As usual, speaking blindly out of your bunghole.

Do you have any reason to say this, any experience? Or is it just something you read on the "internets"?

Some of us have actual experience, you know.

[proteus_lives]

109. Why, yes I do.

I do have experience in this.

Not surprising that you would deny it.

[Bonobo]

110. Would you care to share your personal experience about how you have come to know

that Koreans are treated so badly that the police beat them up in Japan?

About how you know that Japan is "one of the most racist societies on Earth" as you put it?

[proteus_lives]

112. Years of living with and encountering people from...

South Korea and Japan.

It was interesting to see how much distaste they had for each other.

Also eye-opening was how I saw someone who was half-Korean and half-Japanese treated.

[Bonobo]

114. Wow, I guess you should tell these people about how hated they are.

Notable Koreans in Japan

Business and economics
Han Chang-Woo, CEO of Maruhan (Japan's largest pachinko operator)
Mun Se-il, urban economist, professor at the University of Kyoto
Son Masayoshi, CEO of Softbank
Shin Kyuk-ho, CEO and founder of Lotte

Crime
Hayashi Yasuo, terrorist in 1995 sarin gas attack by Aum Shinrikyo
Jo Hiroyuki, uyoku assassin
Machii Hisayuki, godfather and founder of Toa-kai yakuza syndicate
Mun Segwang, failed assassin of Park Chung-hee
Obara Joji, serial rapist and murderer
Sin Gwang-su, North Korean spy, involved in North Korean abductions of Japanese
Takayama Tokutaro, godfather of Aizukotetsu-kai yakuza syndicate

Entertainment
Arai Hirofumi, actor
Ayumi Lee, as also known as ICONIQ, singer
Ihara Tsuyoshi, actor (Letters from Iwo Jima)
Jyongri, singer
Crystal Kay, singer
Kim Hong-Jae, conductor
Kim Seikyo, conductor
Kim Su-gil, film director and producer
Lee Sang-il, Japan Academy Prize winning film director
Matsuda Yusaku, actor
Minami Kaho, actress
Miyako Harumi, singer
Miyavi, musician
Romi Park, voice actor
Sai Yoichi, Japan Academy Prize winning film director
Sonim, singer
Tei Towa, DJ
Verbal, rapper of M-Flo
Wada Akiko, singer,
Tomoyasu Hotei, guitarist
Tamayama Tetsuji, actor

Literature and poetry
Kaneshiro Kazuki, novelist
Lee Hoesung, Akutagawa Prize winning novelist
Lee Yangji, Akutagawa Prize winning novelist
Tachihara Masaaki, novelist
Yang Sok-il, novelist
Yu Miri, Akutagawa Prize winning novelist

Politics and law
Arai Shoukei, politician, House of Representatives
Haku Shinkun, politician, House of Councillors
Kang Sang-jung, political scientist, professor at the University of Tokyo
Kim Ch'on-hae, leading official of the Japanese Communist Party
So Man-sul, North Korean politician, Supreme People’s Assembly of North Korea, chairman of Chongryon
Togo Shigenori, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister of Greater East Asia

Science and technology
Woo Jang-choon, agricultural scientist and botanist

Sports
Akiyama Yoshihiro, judoka and mixed martial artist
Ahn Young-Hak, North Korean football player
Arai Takahiro, professional baseball player
Chong Tese, North Korean football player
Morimoto Hichori, professional baseball player
Harimoto Isao, professional baseball player
Hiyama Shinjiro, professional baseball player
Jong Tae-Se, North Korean football player
Kanazaki Mu, professional football player
Kaneda Masaichi, professional baseball player
Kinjoh Tatsuhiko, professional baseball player
Kanemoto Tomoaki, professional baseball player
Kanemoto Koji, pro-wrestler
Kanemura Kouhiro, pro-wrestler
Kim Chae-Hwa, South Korean figure skater
Kim Jong-Song, North Korean football player
Kim Yong-Gwi, North Korean football player
Kin Taiei, mixed martial artist
Kunimoto Keisuke, race car driver
Lee Tadanari, professional football player
Maeda Akira, pro-wrestler
Maenoyama Taro, sumo wrestler
Matsui Akiyoshi, President of Kyokushin kaikan
Momota Mitsuhiro, pro-wrestler, also known as Rikidozan
Okayama Kazunari, professional football player
Ōyama Masutatsu, martial arts expert, founder of Kyokushin kaikan
Shokei Matsui, current president of Kyokshin kaikan
Ri Han-Jae, North Korean football player
Ryang Gyu-Sa, North Korean football player
Ryang Yong-Gi, North Korean football player
Ryouji Sai, pro-wrestler
Tamarikidō Hideki, sumo wrestler
Tokuyama Masamori, professional boxer, former WBC super flyweight champion
Tatsuhito Takaiwa, pro-wrestler
Yoshida Mitsu, pro-wrestler, also known as Riki Choshu

[proteus_lives]

117. Yes, because normal and famous people have same experiences.

:eyes:

[Bonobo]

119. Anyway, your hearsay didn't impress me. Your friends told you what they wanted to tell you.

You don't live here, you never lived here, you don't speak Japanese or Korean and a few expats told you some stuff about their own experiences.

The point I was making about the list was to show that Koreans are well-integrated here. Most Japanese don't even know who is Korean-Japanese.

So I am just trying to tell you the reality of how things are now.

Korean soap operas are very popular, food, culture.'

The hate has largely gone and you are relying on old, second-hand info.

[proteus_lives]

125. Yeah, I guess expats aren't a good souce of information.

[Joanne98]

86. FIFTY YEARS OF COP SHOWS!

Thanks Hollywood!

:argh:

[proteus_lives]

94. Meaningless.

It's pointless to compare two cultures this way.

[classysassy]

98. Their job is to

"Serve and protect the rich" and screw over the average citizen.

[LanternWaste]

106. I think it's violence in totality we accept

I think it's violence in totality we accept, not simply police violence.

[Bonobo]

108. I have to agree with that. At least the US is consistent in that. nt

[Tailormyst]

111. I don't believe that they do

Nor do I believe that the police are all the monsters you believe them to be. There are far, far more good ones then bad ones, you just don't hear about them. I'm glad the police are out there. The asshole cop striking a person during an arrest make the news. The ones helping to change a tire on a dark road or coming to the rescue during domestic violence or saving a life, those don't make the news, unless they die doing it. THEN it is news.

[EstimatedProphet]

116. Because we're Big Bad Merkins!

Because we've been led to believe that we are better than everyone else on earth, and that we can go kick butt everywhere on earth whenever we want. It translates directly to a bully culture. There are very few un-Ugly Americans left.