KUCINICH: “What if the BP gusher in the Gulf is unstoppable?

[kpete]

VIDEO:
http://vodpod.com/watch/3851559-what-if-the-bp-gusher-in-the-gulf-is-unstoppable?u=dandelionsalad&c=dandelionsalad

Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today made the following statement on the Floor of the House of Representatives about the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico:

“What if the BP gusher in the Gulf is unstoppable?

“This is the challenging question that is making its way through various blogs. What if millions of barrels of oil continue to flow uncontrolled from the hole in the seabed?

“We should be preparing now for a worst case scenario. We should be mobilizing our nation now and developing new comprehensive plans for sustainable, alternative energy, for environmental protection, for public health, for preservation of species, for security, for rebuilding our economy and repairing commerce.

“We should be challenging our fellow citizens and ourselves to take part in charting a new course for our nation towards creating an America that has unlimited energy because it has unlimited vision, unclouded by greed or partisan advantage.”

more:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/17/what-if-the-bp-gusher-in-the-gulf-is-unstoppable-by-dennis-kucinich/

[ShamelessHussy]

1. there he goes again, debbie downer...

dealing in the real world, no wonder the M$M like to ridicule him... don't won't folks dealing with that now do they :shrug:

[Towlie]

174. XKCD Speaks.

[IndianaGreen]

210. I suppose you prefer to believe in BP's endless rosy scenarios

and missed the news reports that it could be Xmas before they can cap this.

[ShamelessHussy]

217. blue pill or red pill?

my dumb ass usually grabs both :evilgrin:

but seriously, I am a huge supporter of DK, and agree 100% with not only his right to question, but also his fight for change.

go DK :toast:

:hi:

[stray cat]

2. Then we can blame Kucinich for not caring enough to stop it

just like everyone else gets blamed for not making the impossible possible

[Bluenorthwest]

84. the cliqueis stuff is fun in some contexts

But this is not about petty word games about blame and punditry. This is about the Gulf of Mexico, the seas as a whole and the future of the planet that we live on. To me, not snark territory. To you, the dead birds and lost cultures are just fodder. Too bad it is not fodder for wit, or an interesting turn of phrase, or a worthwhile point.
Dennis upsets many of you 'moderates' and 'centrists' and 'faith community voters'. We know. This is about the future of our nation. Hardy har har, right Stray? All so funny. It is all just one big smirk. An eye roll.
You remind me of a guy who used to cut my hair. By the way.

[Mimosa]

212. ^ What he said ^

Dennis is thinking ahead. Somebody needs to.

[ShamelessHussy]

220. whistling past the graveyard

[TheKentuckian]

3. Fuckin' A, Dennis

The situation is shitty at best and needs to be treated as such rather than an ongoing TV drama.

[MissDeeds]

152. + 1000

[marmar]

4. A perfectly legitimate question......

And maybe those in charge of the situation already know that, but they spout platitudes because they know that's what Americans want to hear.

[L. Coyote]

35. ... given they have been unable to stop it!

[HowHasItComeToThis]

I FEAR THIS IS TRUE

[northernlights]

169. maybe they know and spout platitudes because they are afraid

of what would happen if they spoke the truth.

I think at some level they do know. I suspect they are too cowardly to admit it to themselves, let alone the rest of us. It's out of control. The gulf is dead. You're all on your own, and we're keeping you in the dark as long as possible while we set up our contingency escape plans.

[WinkyDink]

189. I believe TPTB know A LOT about A LOT that they dare not make public.

[defendandprotect]

196. Agree ... some of the info suggests they were doing EVERYTHING on the cheap . . ..

and that the basic casing for the well may itself be a problem --

perhaps for other wells they worked on?

Atlantis is also a question --

Government needs its own professionals to investigate the oil industry --

Better yet, NATIONALIZE THE OIL INDUSTRY!!

[WinkyDink]

235. I believe ALL industries essential to our way of life---defense, oil, electricity, etc.---should be

nationalized.

[defendandprotect]

242. Me, too -- !!!

:)

[MadMaddie]

5. He speaks the truth like he always does

[anarch]

6. well, somebody had to say it

might as well be one of the few folks in government who tells the truth and speaks his mind

[ProSense]

7. This is a completely irresponsible statement.

"What if the BP gusher in the Gulf is unstoppable?"

If it's unstoppable we're doomed.

Good grief.

[Fumesucker]

8. It's not a statement, it's a question..

The fact you don't understand the difference is telling..

Edited for phrasing.

[harkadog]

10. +10

[ProSense]

11. OK, it's an irresponsible question.

It's not back up by any facts. What the hell is a better energy policy going to do if the gusher cannot be stopped?

There are a lot of people pushing for significant changes to our energy policies without dealing in alarmist hypotheticals.

[Fumesucker]

16. Asking a quite logical question is somehow irresponsible?

It's by no means assured that this gusher can be stopped, everything that has been tried so far has only made it worse.

[wildbilln864]

23. It's backed up by the fact....

that it hasn't been stopped!

[SteppingRazor]

79. Which is in turn refuted by the fact ...

that every other underwater well leak in the history of humanity has eventually been plugged.

[RufusTFirefly]

88. If we plug it, we'll forget about it until the next one

That's why, regardless, we need a coherent alternative energy strategy, not a policy that makes oil executives rich and puts all humanity at risk.

[SteppingRazor]

89. I completely agree.

Like I said below, I don't think Kucinich is irresponsible for saying any of this. I doubt the question is truly worth asking in the literal sense, but I think that in this case, raising these alarm bells is the only way to get anything done.

[Stardust]

25. Too bad you consider this particular hypothetical as "alarmist."

Just a scant bit of research reveals that the gusher might very well be unstoppable.

I'm not sure why Kucinich decided to lead off his argument for better energy policies with the worst case scenario, maybe to get their (and our) attention. He may be right.

[suzie]

54. He had to do something to get this week's 15 minutes of fame.

[Fumesucker]

57. If someone *else* had asked the logical question then Kucinich wouldn't have gotten attention..

Funny how that works, innit?

[suzie]

180. Kucinich repeats the stuff from "blogs" that the right wing is putting out about the

leak being completely unstoppable and therefore...we're all doomed!--the stuff from a source that's been debunked by those with technical knowledge.

And we're supposed to say, "Oh wow, Dennis, you are the one!"

I don't like the little man with the humongous chip on his shoulder at all, but I've never called him Congressman Moonbeam Crazy Pants.

But when I read his remarks in the OP, that nickname for him immediately crossed my mind.

There didn't seem a lot of logic to it, just Dennis Kucinich doing what he does--talking.

[Fumesucker]

238. I never read right wing blogs..

And I don't see any reason the gusher absolutely has to be stoppable..

[ProSense]

134. Exactly,

What if it's unstoppable (which it isn't), then we should be pushing for sustainable energy (as if no one else is).

[elias7]

181. How do you know it's unstoppable?

[defendandprotect]

197. misplaced

[Enthusiast]

149. He is letting me know

that he is deserving of my support unlike some of the other politicians I could name about now.

[MissDeeds]

151. That's one of the most pathetic posts ever on DU

:wtf:

[ShamelessHussy]

221. naw, there's plenty more, just like that, unfortunately...

though that particular 'critique' always baffles me, 'he's seeking attention'...

that's what he, and all the other politicians, are paid to do, hello!

and so it goes...

[girl gone mad]

30. "alarmist hypotheticals"

Funny, isn't that what Obama was saying about environmentalist opposition to deep water drilling back in March?

Isn't that what the administration and the media were saying about the scientific estimates that at least 10 times more oil was leaking than what BP claimed?

Do you expect people to take you seriously?

[tekisui]

86. Good points.

[HughMoran]

98. So, instead of addressing the point, you use this an ANOTHER opportunity to attack Obama

Sheesh!!

[jgraz]

41. What's irresponsible is not preparing for a very probably worst case scenario.

We should be discussing this possibility openly and dealing with it directly, not downplaying the catastrophe that's taking place.

[Scuba]

71. +1

[HughMoran]

100. Openly dealing with what?

The spill while it is spewing out of control, or debating long-term policy in Washington? Obama is criticized to death for not focusing full-bore on the spill, but we should focus on legislation that will do nothing to help the animals and people in the Gulf in the near future?

[undeterred]

117. +1000

[ProSense]

135. What's bizarre is creating worst case scenarios when the facts suggest no such thing. n/t

[jgraz]

139. Once again, I suggest you familiarize yourself with the concept of "fact".

BP gusher may be unstoppable
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/06/worst-already-true-BP-well-now-unstoppable

"All the actions and few tid bits of information all lead to one inescapable conclusion. The well pipes below the sea floor are broken and leaking. Now you have some real data of how BP's actions are evidence of that, as well as some murky statement from "BP officials" confirming the same.

"To those of us outside the real inside loop, yet still fairly knowledgeable, the failure of Top Kill was a major confirmation of what many feared. That the system below the sea floor has serious failures of varying magnitude in the complicated chain, and it is breaking down and it will continue to.

"What does this mean?

"It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot...the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?...the more it will transfer to the leaks below. Just like a leaky garden hose with a nozzle on it. When you open up the nozzle?...it doesn't leak so bad, you close the nozzle?...it leaks real bad, same dynamics. It is why they sawed the riser off...or tried to anyway...but they clipped it off, to relieve pressure on the leaks "down hole". I'm sure there was a bit of panic time after they crimp/pinched off the large riser pipe and the Diamond wire saw got stuck and failed...because that crimp diverted pressure and flow to the rupture down below.

"Contrary to what most of us would think as logical to stop the oil mess, actually opening up the gushing well and making it gush more became direction BP took after confirming that there was a leak. In fact if you note their actions, that should become clear. They have shifted from stopping or restricting the gusher to opening it up and catching it. This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed.....and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why, gee thanks.

BP: How close are we to the unthinkable?
http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2010/06/question-for-bp-how-close-are-we-to-the-unthinkable/58361/

Right now, a disaster that keeps flowing until August is the worst anyone wants to imagine, but there are worse possibilities-- it could be the start of years of unchecked oil flowing into the Gulf. (See this Bloomberg article suggesting that the relief well could take until December to solve the problem. One expert in the article mentions a decade. Keep that in mind as you read onward.)

There are legitimate concerns about the integrity of the casing. Yesterday, someone asked Admiral Allen about that. He said that concerns about the integrity of the well bore were part of the decision to stop the "Top Kill" a few weeks ago, indicating that there are significant concerns. On April 23, the Coast Guard was aware that the size of the leak could grow from 8000 barrels a day to 64,000 to 110,000 barrels a day if the well completely blew out. That's quite close to the current spill estimates. Does that mean that the well is nearing a full blow out?

The reason the casing's integrity matters is that if it's cracked, oil will push out through the cracks and into the surrounding ground, destabilizing the ground around the casing, and bubbling up from the ocean floor. Here's more, with Senator Bill Nelson's interview a week and a half ago saying just that. A seeping well, of course, will be hard to contain.

And finally, more alarming, and possibly a gross overstatement, there is the possibility that as the ground and the casing shift, the whole thing collapses inward, the giant Blow Out Preventer falls over, the drill pipe shoots out of the remains of the well, or any number of other scenarios that could make it very difficult or impossible to eventually stop the gusher even with the relief wells. (I do not know the author of this post, and cannot vouch for its accuracy. I do not share the author's fear that there is a conspiracy to hide this information. My sense is that it's unthinkable and so no one is asking the questions.) Thus the relief well are being drilled in a race with the integrity of the ground around the well and the casing.

[ProSense]

142. Hypotheticals are facts? n/t

[jgraz]

146. No, these particular hypotheticals are suggested by the facts.

Please try to keep up.

[NightOwwl]

173. and what facts might those be?

[Smashcut]

190. Right, and the spill is only 5000 bbl/day

:eyes:

[Enthusiast]

150. +1

Any undertaking that risks irreparable harm to the environment, be it oil drilling or nuclear energy production, should be undertaken considering a worst case catastrophic scenario. Always.

I also hear too much bluster and overconfidence from the mouths of nuclear money recipients. Exactly like we heard from the 'Drill baby drill!' people.

Wake the fuck up, people!

[dionysus]

49. it excites gloom and doomers on the internet. let them indulge.

;)

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NightOwwl]

175. I'm anything but a gloom and doomer.

But this situation has me very worried.

[dionysus]

185. some posters get off on end of the world disaster scenarios. i am not referring to you

specifically.

[waronbanks]

70. Alarmist hypotheticals?

Um dude...they cant stop the geyser. Thats not hypothetical. They cant stop it. Does that mean they wont eventually stop it? No. but right now as it stands...they cannot stop it.

So to imply that by suggesting "we cant stop it", is somehow twisting the facts or being alarmists is just wrong...

THEY CANT STOP THE FUCKING THING NOW!

[SteppingRazor]

78. It is alarmist when you consider that every other time this has happened...

the well has been stopped. Never in the history of humans drilling for oil beneath the surface of the water has there been a leak that was not eventually plugged. In every case, said plugging occurred when relief wells were dug. The difference between this well and others is merely depth, which translates to a lengthier delay in digging relief wells.

To look just at this leak and say it has not been stopped yet, therefore perhaps it cannot be stopped, even though this has never happened and there are many examples of well leaks being stopped is, in fact, alarmist.

And, for the record, I'm a Kooch fan. I just think he's being a bit overboard in this instance. But then again, it's kind of his job to go overboard as I see it. Without someone taking the positions he takes, we'll never get a consensus position in Congress that's even remotely liberal.

[tekisui]

83. It is a real possibility.

No one has ever been successful with relief well at his depth. We have seen the other efforts that have worked at shallower depths fail here.

It is an important question to ask, IMO. We should prepare for the worst.

[SteppingRazor]

87. Except that other efforts also failed in the long-run, even in shallow depths.

Look at the other contemporary oil leak in the Gulf, Taylor Energy. Those platforms were damaged in a hurricane six years ago and capped, but they're leaking to this day. So, they're drilling relief wells.

Long term, relief wells are the only thing that has ever worked. I think it's a bit silly to start going all Cassandra before they've had a chance to drill them at Deepwater Horizon.

Now, that said, I don't think it's necessarily irresponsible of Kucinich to try to make these claims. I think he's wrong, demonstrably so, but without someone screaming bloody murder over the worst case scenario, regardless of how unlikely it may be, it's tough to get anything done in Congress.

[Bluenorthwest]

91. He is not making any 'claims'.

He is asking a question. There is a vast difference between the two things. Let me be blunt as a dull edge here. Anyone who engages in risky behavior of any kind without planning for the worst case scenario is a fool. They are in fact, BP.
Those who declare things to be so unlikely that they have no need to prepare for them are the sort of people who killed the Gulf.
Asking a question is not making a claim, nor is it 'screaming bloody murder'.
The reason to prepare for worst case is to avoid the results of the worst case. Not because Congress is slow, but because that is the only right and safe way to do anything.
I wonder if people let their kids die in fires because they did not prepare or the very unlikely event of a housefire in the night. Yes, they do. They call those who say 'prepare' all sorts of names. Until the day of the funeral.
A person has to make a prediction to be a Cassandra, darling razor. Asking a question about possible scenarios is not 'going all Cassandra'. Look up 'Cassandra' 'question' 'claim' in a dictionary, then return to explain how an unanswered question can be 'wrong'. This time using actual English words with their actual meanings.
Sorry to be so harsh, but the idea of calling a question not just a claim, but an incorrect claim is revolting to me, language wise.
For your position to hold water, you need to be able to claim that the worst case scenario is in fact an impossibility, not merely that it is unlikely. The rest of your 'points' are just characterizations of people and words as things they are not.

[SteppingRazor]

179. Sorry my post so deeply offends your command of the Queen's English.

I think my point was clearly made. Obviously, Kucinich is asking a rhetorical question here. Perhaps it would be incorrect to state that his question is wrong, but it's quite correct -- and should have been obvious in context -- to point out that the assumptions underlying a question are false. That is, in order to ask "What if the gusher is unstoppable?" we have to ask first whether any gushers have been previously unstoppable in similar situations, and we find that none have.

I don't feel I need to explain myself down to the last detail in every post. I feel most DUers are smarter than that.

[immune]

206. Going all Cassandra?

On the other end of the spectrum, you have the Pollyannas.

Shoot, I remember ten fifteen years back when the Pollyannas were still insisting that the banks hadn't gone broke before so it could never happen. Never heard of Murphy's Law.

DK is right to ask this question. But the thing that worries me even more, is if there truly IS an expanding methane bubble on the sea floor, what happens if/when it blows? All those ships. All the crews and clean up people. Residents. All that wildlife. And probably a few former Pollyannas.

[rucognizant]

104. This was posted HERE a while back!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8385057
How soon we forget.

[northernlights]

176. just out of curiousity?

how many of the previous leaks that were eventually plugged had compromised the well casing below? How many had oil spewing from the seabed surrounding the well (plainly visible on some of the videos)? How many of those had BOPs that were starting to tip over? How many of those were spewing 75% methane?

Just because they've been able to plug all underground leaks up until now in no way means that all underwater leaks are pluggable.

[SteppingRazor]

183. OK ... but by the same token...

stating, as several people have upthread, that the fact that the well has not yet been plugged is evidence that the well is unstoppable is similarly illogical.

Still, I definitely take your point -- that this leak is unprecedented and so previous examples aren't apples-to-apples comparisons. I think it's definitely a valid point. There has been a larger underwater leak in the past, but it was in much shallower water (The Ixtoc off Mexico back in 1979, in about 160 feet of water, though the well was actually about as deep as the Deepwater Horizon's, I believe.) and a lot of the oil on the surface burned up.

[northernlights]

188. the evidence that it *may* be unpluggable

is not that it has not yet been plugged. It's that the well casing is compromised and oil is also spewing, albeit less dramatically, from fissues around the well. That is why Dr. Chu stopped the failed top kill effort -- it was evidence that the well casing and the BOP are both compromised.

Also, given the current estimates Deepwater may have already topped Ixtoc; certainly it will have by August.

The bottom line is that every attempt to stop this well is a "never been done before," "learn as we go," experiment. That kind of effort, frankly, does not generally have a good outcome beyond lessons for the future.

In the meantime, the force of the oil, methane, sand and mud continue to erode the failing well casing and BOP, which also may be listing. So it is a race against time.

The good news is that the company drilling the relief wells (apparently *not* BP) is well ahead of schedule and within ~200 feet of the well.

[defendandprotect]

199. +1000% -- and not only this well is questionable ... Atlantis is 7,000 feet down -- !!

and lots of questions there!

[rhett o rick]

81. Seems you are a BP supporter. You object when anyone tries to hold BP

accountable.

[Catherina]

219. Stockholder is my guess n/t

[Individualist]

226. or corporate loving DLCer.

[tekisui]

82. Damn, reality sucks, huh?

We'd be better to ignore it and not look at those hard possibilities.

President Obama better damn well be asking these questions. It is the worst-case scenario in a series of worst-cases. We had better be preparing and planning for that very real possibility.

Interesting that you take such offense to a legitimate question.

[ProSense]

136. What, hypothetical reality? n/t

[nashville_brook]

166. how about you present a reasoned argument why your reality isn't hypothetical.

[tekisui]

222. We'll talk again after the start of the year and the leak is still gushing, alright?

[Enthusiast]

147. Okay, let's presume it will be stopped, eventually.

If it is stopped after irreparable damage to the marine environment what is the difference? It is a matter of degrees of damage. Just how much irreparable damage are you will to put up with so the ultra wealthy corporations can continue to operate in an irresponsible manner?

[nashville_brook]

167. +1000

[aquart]

161. How do you form any disaster not energy policy without dealing in worst case?

Because what we have so far may NOT be the "worst case." And since we'd rather not lay down and die, we DO need to think about it.

[DeSwiss]

164. ....

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-top-kill-and-every-other-top-down-leak-operation-will-fail-2010-6#ixzz0rFRe5gbN">Here's Why Top Kill And Every Other "Top-Down" Leak Operation Will Fail

[nashville_brook]

165. wow! an irresponsible question -- haven't heard that since Catholic school days.

[sabrina 1]

168. So you haven't read the reports that it may indeed be

unstoppable? I'm not going to do the research for you but someone further down in the thread has been kind enough to do so.

Obviously, unlike you, Kucinich is also aware of the latest reports and since they are pretty devastating, is asking exactly the right question.

It's always a good idea to know what you are talking about before engaging in a knee-jerk reaction simply because you do not like liberals and progressives. You could take some lessons from Kucinich, who rarely speaks before knowing what he is talking about.

[Smashcut]

187. "an irresponsible question" (!!!)

Yes, we know you don't like those who question.

[defendandprotect]

200. Rather, it would be "irresponsible" not to ask this logical question . . . !!

[Greyhound]

69. Kucinich is the Anti-Obama and as such is to be feared!

:scared:

It really is funny watching their little tantrums.
:rofl:

[LWolf]

96. +10

[Desertrose]

128. ...plus another 50.

:)

[frylock]

131. kucinich scares the crap out of establishment dems and their enablers

[Enthusiast]

153. That is why they call him names

and denigrate him as they do. He threatens their gravy train.

To achieve a safe clean energy future there are going to have to be wealthy fossil fuel producers made very unhappy. My suggestion would be to quickly refocus their investment on clean energy research for the future.

[defendandprotect]

202. ... and that's why they try to ensure no more Kucinich's get to Congress . . .

LOVE those few in Congress like Dennis who get info out and ask

real questions!!

Isn't that the damned question we've all be fearing . . . what if this thing

keeps going?

[ProSense]

133. Yeah, Obama was really afraid when Kucinich ran against him.n/t

[1monster]

154. Well, yeah... Otherwise why the deliberate "Kucinch Sees Little Green Men" campaign

when he answered a question about whethere or not he believed there were UFOs. He answered that yes, he believed there were UFOs without ever characterizing them.

And there ARE UFOs. Remember that UFO stands for UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS. Those objects are sometimes later identified and are sometimes not identified.

Kucinich was held up for ridicule in order to make him seem less viable as a world leader, and, more's the pity, it worked with a lot of dunderheads who have littler or no critical thinking skills.

[defendandprotect]

203. Personally, I'd have more confidence in someone who saw a UFO -- like John Lennon . . .

but excluding Ronnie Reagan!!

PLUS, there was also the whole right wing corporate press -- private election people --

pushing him out of the debates -- sidelining him!!

I agree, he does frighten the hell out of them --

Obama didn't -- he was playing the corporate game -- as we're sadly finding out since the election!

[G_j]

9. Good Grief! Charlie Brown...

yea I know, silly, because we were already doomed before the oil spill.

[johnnie]

12. Heh n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

13. Irresponsible??? What should he have said? All is well? n/t

[ProSense]

15. Right, those are the only two choices. n/t

[madrchsod]

21. i see you found a new set of talking points about dennis....

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

103. Got no argument, attack the poster personally

...an old and tiring pattern...

[Bluenorthwest]

93. You were asked what he should have asked.

And as always, you did not reply to the question. Everybody sees that, and it taints all who post with you, and those you post to 'support'. It is what it is, and there it is.

[HughMoran]

102. False choice argument

C'mon!!!!!!!!

[rug]

18. Of all the people irresponsible in this fiasco, Kucinich is last on the list.

[chill_wind]

39. [phone]

[Enthusiast]

155. Oh, baby! Way to bring it!

Exactly!

[ShamelessHussy]

33. if he was on BP's PR team, then sure

but not if he is we the people's team it's not.

it's all relative...

[ThomThom]

75. sounds to me like there are a lot of people on the DP team on this thread

What is going on here? What we should be discussing is how are we going to contain and clean up this mess if it goes on for a week or 4 years. It is not the end of the world unless we throw up our hands and say there is nothing to be done. This is a very important question to be asked and it is about time someone started answering.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Empathic_1]

46. Hold on to your sanity.

We are pretty much doomed. Adamant defense of the recklessness exhibited by the last 5 mal-administrations (ok, probably more) will cause you to seem crazy. Wishing things are a certain way doesn't make them so.

Take long walks, hug those you love, cry a little bit. We are in a very stupid phase of our evolution.

[mmonk]

72. We're evolving? Whew! I've been worried that we have been devolving.

[grantcart]

50. It is the question and I was wondering who would ask it.

If the relief wells do not work what is next? Nuclear bombs?

[sabrina 1]

66. It's been two months and they haven't stopped it.

Time to ask that question don't you think? It's clear even to the most loyal supporters of Big Oil that if there was a way to stop it, it would have been found by now.

And the next question is, since they had no plan to deal with this situation, which they knew was a possibility, who gave them permission to put this country in such danger?

Does anyone know the answer to that question? Or, should we just start praying?

[tranche]

129. Do you honestly not know that the relief wells are considered the ultimate solution.

And those won't be completed until the end of the summer. The attempts to stop it before than (which all have failed) were stopgap measures. Do you not know this?

[sabrina 1]

138. Yes, I do know that. I also

know that if, as has been reported, the well casings are damaged deep under the ocean bed, there is no guarantee that the relief wells will work.

It would have been helpful to start with if there had been a back-up plan taking into account the worst case scenario. Isn't this a requirement before embarking on any project especially one as dangerous as this?

In other cases where relief wells worked, the damage was not as deep under the ocean bed as this one. Should someone not have tried at least, to anticipate such a tragedy and developed a plan to deal with it? From all I've read there was no plan even though it was known how risky it was.

Making matters even worse we now learn that there was an even greater risk involving how much methane gas was known to be in the location of the well. And yet, they just went ahead with no way to deal with an accident. They gambled and lost and I understand why Obama urged people to pray if he has been reading the latest reports on what is happening in the whole they made in the bottom of the ocean. I'm sure he has and a lot more.

[tranche]

145. Ok. Just checking. And I don't argue any points in your comment except for the snarky jab at prayer.

That was a nod to the fishing fleet and the culture there. If you think it's cheesy than that's your opinion, but I don't think it's cute to make light of it.

[sabrina 1]

158. It wasn't meant to be snarky, sorry if it came across that way.

I actually agreed with him. Prayer is often a last resort even for people who normally do not believe in it. My feeling was that he is fully aware of how serious the situation is.

[Gravel Democrat]

209. Once again you have identified the most important thing

"And the next question is, since they had no plan to deal with this situation, which they knew was a possibility, who gave them permission to put this country in such danger?"

There might be a reason that this question isn't being asked by more people in the talking head business

I have a mining claim on a river, and every year I plan to work it I have to file detailed plans with the local forest service. I can't do a thing that isn't on those plans.

"Who Gave Them Permission To Put This Country In Such Danger?"

So good I had to paste it again. In fact I'm going to put that on a website and broadcast that message.
Thanks for the inspiration.

Oh, and one thing about alternatives: Lots of people are saying there aren't any. But lets say T. Boone Pickens is right about our supply of natural gas being 3 times the oil in Saudi Arabia. If that is the case here is an answer:



http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/

There are home natural gas compressors on the market now. This nation could do so much, but we're stuck with the same ol...

[rhett o rick]

80. Are you trying to hijack this thread? Good grief. nm

[HughMoran]

97. Simply not agreeing with what was said in the O/P?

You have to admit that we might have bigger priorities than passing long-term legislation while the Gulf is filling up with oil.

So, will you argue the point or ...?

[Bluenorthwest]

92. He asked a question, he did not make a statement.

Never much for accuracy, were you? Here is an irresponsible statement, just so you can see the difference. "It turns out, by the way, that oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced. Even during Katrina, the spills didn’t come from the oil rigs."

No questions, just statements, none of them accurate, all of them repeated from the 'experts' in the Industry. That is, repeated from those with a profit to make off of that view. Irresponsible. As it turns out.

[Enthusiast]

156. Thank you for pointing this out.

We are subjected to so many industry talking points, smoke and mirrors and propaganda that we can often lose sight of the truth. Forest for the trees and all that.

[crikkett]

99. Why is this irresponsible?

Why not admit a very possible contingency, and plan accordingly? It might give us a reason to act differently.

[Forkboy]

112. If you're against it then it must have been the correct thing to do.

[quakerboy]

132. What a ridiculous thing to say

If its unstoppable, then we will learn to live with it. Fancy colored oceans will become the new beautiful sunsets to admire, cancer rates will go up, and people will learn not to eat fish. I'm sure there are lots of other things that will happen. Quite possibly even the end of society/civilization as we know it. But all the "doomed, life will all die" talk is highly overblown, I think. Life as a whole is rather determined to continue, and seems to be pretty good at finding new was of doing so even in the face of massive challenges. And humans are like really large, less crunchy cockroaches. I'm pretty sure earth is stuck with us. Maybe not all of us, but I think predictions of the demise of a species as potentially adaptable as ours are also quite premature.

That said, Kucinich asked a perfectly legitimate question, although one that has relatively little use for us.

A better question on his part might be "what if the next big one is unstoppable?". Although less urgent, referring to only a potential future event, it also holds a greater potential for doing something about it, since a massive redirection of our current habits, particularly our energy policy, could potentially prevent such an occurrence.

[Ozymanithrax]

14. If it can not be stopped, the question of sustainable energy is stupid...

The question becomes, what do we do several million Americans that live along the coast of the gulf. Their lives are destroyed, property worthless, livelihoods gone. We would need a massive resettlement program to handle several million displaced Americans without work, food, or homes. This disaster would affect nations in the gulf, all of which rely on fishing as a major part of their diet. Rather than affect the gulf coast for a generation, we talk a century.

[anarch]

17. don't forget that the gulf is open to the rest of the oceans

sorry to be a downer, but you know, things won't work out so good if we kill off a whole bunch of the oceans

[WinkyDink]

19. That "2012" thing doesn't seem so risible right about now.

[madrchsod]

24. if the doomsday methane explosion comes true

it will be for millions of people who live with in several hundred miles of the gulf......

[safeinOhio]

36. read this

http://www.helium.com/items/1864136-how-the-ultimate-bp...

[RC]

42. Bull Shit. This is someone's imagination working overtime.

While the well itself may come undone because of BP short cuts, The article's scenario is very unlikely.
His description of the methane bubble that took out the drilling rig is evidence of that.
Then saying that Florida, 400-500 miles away would get the worst of it, over Louisiana, 40 miles away. Yeah, sure, ya betcha.

And another thing, the average height of Florida is 100 feet, not 6 inches.

[1monster]

157. Hate to contradict you, but you are wrong. The highest point in Florida is Britton Hill

in the Panhandle (About 1/2 mile from Alabama). And it is only 345 feet above sea level. (http://www.netstate.com/states/geography/mapcom/fl_mapscom.htm)



I live at 8 feet above sea level.

[RC]

195. Read my post again. I stated that...

"And another thing, the average height of Florida is 100 feet, not 6 inches."

[1monster]

225. Mea culpa. Will the excuse that one eye focuses slightly above the other and sometimes I

read on two different levels help you over look my faux pax?

(Sometimes I read a sentence that just couldn't be right and go back to read it over and find there was no such sentence to begin with.)

[WinkyDink]

192. I'm just glad I unloaded (although at a steep loss) my Cape Coral (Gulf side) lot.

[lurky]

53. The author's other articles include:

"How a man can live seven decades without food or water"
"What is North Korea's 'secret plan' to defeat America?"
"Why top economist Arthur Laffer predicts collapse of 2011 US economy" (Spoiler, it's because we need more tax cuts).

[RC]

198. Well, that explains that.

Why do so many just except what they read? Don't question, no matter how silly or off the wall some or all the contents of said article are.

[Enthusiast]

159. This is not science fiction. nt

[ThomThom]

76. the methane alone is a serious problem for climate change

The amount being released could/will speed up that problem. It is not discussed at all.

[IDemo]

116. I haven't seen a single reference to this, either

I would like to see a comparison of the total amount of methane release likely from the gusher versus the total present atmospheric levels.

Methane is an 80% stronger greenhouse molecule than CO2; about 72% over a twenty year period.

[Foo Fighter]

32. I've been thinking that same thing the last few days or so. n/t

[Ozymanithrax]

20. The Atlantic is too big to be killed, but life in the gulf would consist of oil eating bacteria.

And think of all the nations that rely on the gulf for a major part of their diet.

[anarch]

29. mmm hmm the Atlantic might be

but that thing has been there since before the dinosaurs, sort of, so...


But I doubt it'll come to that, in a complete kind of way. Life goes on somehow or other, you know?

[Ozymanithrax]

31. Running uncontrolled, the well will spew for 3 or 4 years and then slowly decrease its output..

There is a limit. But we are already looking at the gulf coast of the U.S. being impacted for 10 to 20 years. More oil just mean it takes much longer for the gulf to heal itself.

The problem will be what to do with the people that live along it. A large putrid oil sink is a bad neighbor.

I think chances are good they will cap this well by August. My point was that if it can never be stopped, marshaling votes for sustainable energy will be the least of our worries.

How much Tax revenue comes from the gulf states? What would it cost to move millions of people to new homes? what would countries like Mexico, Cuba, or the other gulf states expect from the U.S., since we are responsible for this debacle? We need to think about sustainable forms of energy because oil won't last forever, not because we might not be able to turn of the spigot.

[Grinchie]

64. You mean like the La Brea Tar Pits?

Hate to say it, but that things been chugging and killing for millions of years...

[misanthrope]

228. "How much tax revenue comes from the Gulf States?"...

...Well, Alabama draws $1.66 from federal coffers for every $1 it sends. I'd be willing to bet that Mississippi and Louisiana aren't far behind as that pattern is common with a lot of red states.

[sohndrsmith]

68. I'm guessing you're referring to dinosaurs on purpose... : ) or : /

... yah, it'd be silly to think that a massive terrestrial event during a period of significant climate change... or something like that (or this?) could cause any real substantial affect, except maybe along a few Gulf Coast beaches for a few years, maybe a decade...

I mean, really - nothing that huge could *ever* happen...
...couldn't happen in six - I mean - a million years... It's just too silly...

As far as being "unstoppable"? Heck, that's even sillier!
It's just childish to think of something that has (as yet) proven to be unstoppable... as *actually* being (eyes rolling) unstoppable. See how goofy that is when you actually think it through?

When you think of *all* the other times we've successfully stopped other spills JUST like this, that were JUST as big, JUST as deep, JUST as powerful... it's simply foolhardy to think:
...the thing we can't stop...
...as being something...
...we can't stop...

Sheesh...

[Ozymanithrax]

94. If it is unstoppable, focusing on legislation to usher in renewable energy is stupid...

The problems caused by that event of moving tens of millions of Americans (not to mention Mexicans, Cubans, and all other gulf nations)and the resulting disruption of the economy would be so huge that nothing else would be possible.

Once it is stopped, we can worry about choosing other forms of energy then building the infrastructure to utilize it.

[Enthusiast]

160. LOL!

[Grinchie]

62. Soylent Green is people after all..

Just ask Charlton Heston about the oceans....

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Exactly right. If it's unstoppable, we're fucked. Full stop.

[crikkett]

101. Good thing we have those FEMA camps

:sarcasm:

[flamingdem]

22. Kucinich might be hanging with Humbats man the Mayan Priest

Inside info?

[madrchsod]

26. i think that`s is pretty clear now...

only a fool would think we can go back to yesterday.

[Autumn]

27. Damn good "what if "Dennis.

So far nothing they have tried seems to have worked. Maybe there is no technology to stop it. I have often wondered that myself. K/R for a real person.

[depakid]

28. What if indeed....

I suppose we'll all know whether that's going to be the case come this fall. In the meantime though, Kucinich makes an undeniable point:

We should be preparing now for a worst case scenario. We should be mobilizing our nation now and developing new comprehensive plans for sustainable, alternative energy, for environmental protection, for public health, for preservation of species, for security, for rebuilding our economy and repairing commerce.

That some people can't seem to accept this- or feel the need to blurt out ridicule isn't very encouraging in terms of what it says about America's future.

[Grinchie]

65. But it goes against the new "Fleet of Nuclear Power Plants" Obama announced recently

Has anybody noticed that Solar Power seems to be Taboo these days?

WTF is up with that.. Prices are down to 1.95 per watt, and the media is proclaiming the death of the Solar Panel industry....

[slay]

37. K&R - Bout time somebody asked!

In a just world, we'd have President Kucinich right now. Sigh...

[bvar22]

38. K&R for the man who should be president.

One of the few remaining "Democrats" who still represents the bottom 97%.

[mistertrickster]

40. The fact that BP seems more concerned about capturing and selling the oil

than actually stopping the gusher gives me hope that it can be stopped.

But DK brings up a good point . . . it's been 60 days now of 60,000 gallons a day, heigh ho.

[RC]

43. They can't stop it from the top.

They are afraid the well is damaged and trying to hard to kill it from the top will make matters worse. That is why they are are drilling the relief wells. They are doing the only thing they can do for the time being.

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6593#comment-648967
All the actions and few tid bits of information all lead to one inescapable conclusion. The well pipes below the sea floor are broken and leaking. Now you have some real data of how BP's actions are evidence of that, as well as some murky statement from "BP officials" confirming the same.

I took some time to go into a bit of detail concerning the failure of Top Kill because this was a significant event. To those of us outside the real inside loop, yet still fairly knowledgeable, it was a major confirmation of what many feared. That the system below the sea floor has serious failures of varying magnitude in the complicated chain, and it is breaking down and it will continue to.

What does this mean?

It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot...the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?...the more it will transfer to the leaks below. Just like a leaky garden hose with a nozzle on it. When you open up the nozzle?...it doesn't leak so bad, you close the nozzle?...it leaks real bad,
same dynamics. It is why they sawed the riser off...or tried to anyway...but they clipped it off, to relieve pressure on the leaks "down hole". I'm sure there was a bit of panic time after they crimp/pinched off the large riser pipe and the Diamond wire saw got stuck and failed...because that crimp diverted pressure and flow to the rupture down below.

Contrary to what most of us would think as logical to stop the oil mess, actually opening up the gushing well and making it gush more became direction BP took after confirming that there was a leak. In fact if you note their actions, that should become clear. They have shifted from stopping or restricting the gusher to opening it up and catching it. This only makes sense if they want to relieve pressure at the leak hidden down below the seabed.....and that sort of leak is one of the most dangerous and potentially damaging kind of leak there could be. It is also inaccessible which compounds our problems. There is no way to stop that leak from above, all they can do is relieve the pressure on it and the only way to do that right now is to open up the nozzle above and gush more oil into the gulf and hopefully catch it, which they have done, they just neglected to tell us why, gee thanks.

Then there is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill

[bongbong]

122. Not gallons - barrels

60K barrels, which is close to a 2 1/2 million gallons, a day. At least.

[salguine]

44. When he said that, did the TV picture suddenly go:

[G_j]

48. +1000

[moondust]

45. Please ask your question 30 years ago, Mr. Kucinich.

At that time responsible parties in the oil industry and the government and the local population that may be affected will realize that this is an important question that must not be ignored. They will therefore take the necessary steps to ensure that a viable answer is found and a plan is put in place so that any potential catastrophe can be averted. Until that time, sir, please be patient.

:sarcasm:

[grantcart]

51. Thank you Mr. Kucinich for asking the right question.

[KillCapitalism]

52. No one knows how long it could go on if not stopped.

I don't think anyone is going to tell the truth about just how much oil is down there. The leak could stop in a few years if it's not that much, or 40,000 years if there is a huge amount.

See, I think BP has been lying all along about how much oil is under there. I'm thinking there may be more under there than all of the middle east, Venezuela, Alaska, and Nigeria combined. Why wouldn't they reveal that? If it's that plentiful, gas would only be about 50 cents a gallon & they wouldn't be making obscene profits.

[Lucian]

55. This is why Kucinich should be President.

He'd actually get shit done.

[Poll_Blind]

60. +1

PB

[DonCoquixote]

63. how

by yelling and yelling and yelling at people who disagree with him?

[girl gone mad]

73. Is that how Bush got things done?

[suzie]

67. Based on the fact that he never gets anything done other than satisifying his own gigantic ego

by getting air time?

[fascisthunter]

109. your hatred of the man is irrational and transparent

[Forkboy]

111. Your hatred of DK is fucking funny. I swear the man ate your puppy or something.

:rofl:

[suzie]

178. Your tolerance for a Congressperson whose votes expressed his longstanding hatred for my gender

must be greater than mine.

Your tolerance for a Presidential candidate who said, "Wink, wink" he'd run with an avowed racist must be greater than mine.

[Forkboy]

207. You care about women so much you'd rather DK was still against abortion.

[suzie]

230. I'd rather he'd done what my Blue Dog Senator, one of the evil ones according to the Kucinich

followers, has long done. Expressed a personal opposition to abortion and voted for such things as allowing military women serving in places like Iraq or Afghanistan--where there may be no safe alternatives--to be able to obtain abortions in U.S. military hospitals on their own dollar.

Dennis Kucinich voted against women on this issue, because he thought it would benefit him politically. Then, when he wanted to appeal to a different constituency, POOF! he changed his stance overnight.

Which just means that he is the opposite of what his supporters say--he's a man of no principle whatsoever, who is ever looking for an audience. And willing to say whatever appeals to that audience.

Which was, I believe, my original point.

[Forkboy]

232. He now has a 100% rating from NARAL and Planned Parenthood.

Are you glad he switched positions or not? Is he helping women now or not?

I can only speak for myself, but I see DK as another politician, just one that is right a lot more often than many other politicians. But like with any politician changes will happen, sometimes for real reasons, often for political reasons. Flip flops are expected, and personally, I love it when they happen and the flop lands on the correct side of the issues. I don't give a fuck if it was done for political reasons or not (as if every single move in D.C. isn't motivated by political reasons...yes, even among the politicians you like), the right thing is obviously being done now, or he wouldn't have the ratings he does.

And your whole argument that he's just like everyone else, a politician with no principle, raises a question. If it bothers you that he pretends to have principle, why doesn't it bother you that others aren't even pretending to have it? I've never seen you get mad at any politician with the intensity you have for Kucinich (in fact, he's the only one I've seen you get bent out of shape over ever). So the ones who show little to no principle don't seem to bother you at all. It's like it's all ok with you, just so long as they're up front about having no principles. DK changes his mind once and you hate him with the heat of a thousand suns, even though he ended up on the side you're fighting for. Where's your anger for the politicians with ratings worse than his on women's issues? I never see it.

[suzie]

237. Kucinich stood with the Republicans when they were in power and it really mattered, because

they had opportunities to do all sorts of horrendous things to women.

Now that Democrats are in power, he's changed his tune and I'm supposed to applaud him?

No, I don't think so.

I don't think he's like everyone else--I think that many politicians actually work on stuff, but we don't get to hear their names much because they don't have the followers that Kucinich does.

And those politicians don't grandstand constantly.

[Stardust]

115. Why are you such a hater? All you can do is insert snarky comments

about DK's ego and 15 mins of fame? Do you troll DU daily for posts about DK so you can inject your venom? Enough. We get your hatred (and it's boring).

[suzie]

177. You mean as opposed to all the names that show up on any "I love, I adore Dennis,

Dennis is the only person in the entire Congress" threads that seek out and post every blog, every article they can find that disparages Obama because, "He's not Dennis," on a daily basis?

The Kucinich lovers that will appear as soon as any negative thread appears about the President to chime in with their rabid dislike of everything about Obama...on a daily basis?

The Kucinich fans that started in on everything that Obama had done wrong, even before he took office?

I will certainly admit a lack of fondness for Dennis Kucinich. My first encounters with politics were dealing with state legislators back in the pre-Roe era. I have only disgust for that vile little creep who voted with the worst of the rightwingers to deny women the rights to their own bodies for year after year after year.

The Kucinich lovers are quick to voice their disapproval of Blue Dog Democrats and yet my Blue Dog Congresscritter NEVER voted to disallow military women the right to use their own money to pay for an abortion while serving this nation overseas, nor for a lot of other anti-woman legislation that Kucinich supported.

I'm also from the South and can remember separate water fountains. So I find it just horrendous that Dennis Kucinich would ever talk about running with a racist KKKer--which he did several times.

People want to laud Dennis Kucinich as a "progressive" when he would run with the kind of vicious creatures that marched up and down in front of my high school to protest desegregation?

Call me a whatever you want, but it seems to me that Kucinich is the one with a long record of associating himself with haters.

[Stardust]

227. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have gone personal on you.

I admit to not being very familiar with Kucinich's former beliefs, but I do believe that people can evolve and he speaks for me now. Maybe it's all an act, I've certainly been fooled before.

Peace.

[WinkyDink]

191. You mean DK is a politician? ZOUNDS!!

[ecstatic]

77. Except, Ron Paul would be our VP... That was his top choice

So in 2016, Ron paul would likely become president of the united states after serving 8 years as VP. THAT is the extent to which your dream president thinks things through. But if that type of kneejerk shortsightedness works for you, then go for it!

[Forkboy]

113. No, it wasn't his "top choice".

You don't even have the story right yet you accuse of others of engaging in kneejerk shortsightedness. Well done.

[ecstatic]

127. check youtube. Several times he said Paul was his top choice, absolutely no hesitation nt

[Enthusiast]

162. +1!

Unless the greedy managed to do away with him.

[IndianaGreen]

211. Dennis Raaaawwwwkkkkssss!

Dennis tells the truth!

[and-justice-for-all]

56. that is an excellent and horrifiying question...nt

[Prophet 451]

59. Then we're all fucked, Kooch

Granted, we might well be fucked anyway.

[4dsc]

74. Its about time someone started to ask the hard questions

Way to go Dennis..

[tekisui]

85. knr! I have been asking the same thing for weeks.

[limit18]

90. Come Christmas...

will there be enough of that $20bil left to buy presents?

[Myrina]

95. ... then we'd better start worrying about alternatives to water, too

:(

[Catherina]

105. Thank you Dennis. Always representing the little people n/t

[shireen]

106. Don't worry, Dennis, the gusher will stop

when the reservoir runs out of oil.

:mad:

[Nite Owl]

107. He speaks the unspeakable

few would even say that what if.
What I can't understand is why other wells operated by BP of the same type are still allowed to continue drilling. At what point do we learn that their risk is too great.

[Enthusiast]

163. "He speaks the unspeakable"

This is what visionaries do.

[fascisthunter]

108. NOW THAT is what a leader should be asking it's people to do...

prepare for the worst.

[branders seine]

110. Gasp! Someone is actually looking forward

instead of being a reactionary?

How uncharacteristic of the Obama Era.

[grahamhgreen]

114. Then we need to get the president to come out AGAINST drill baby drill.

And stop offshore drilling forever

[sam sarrha]

118. the North Atlantic will go Septic ,the bacteria that eats the oil will suck the O2 out of the water.

compounded by the Methane, 40% of the well's ejectant, will suffocate all marine life. it could trip a Sulfide bacteria bloom and poison not only the Atlantic but the earths atmosphere...:shrug:

[northernlights]

171. you forgot that the ocean provides 2/3s of our oxygen

so when they ocean dies, we'll all with with her....but other than that, what's to worry about?

[defendandprotect]

205. Wow -- no one knows how this capitalistic attack on Nature will compound . . .

from Global Warming -- and this new 40% Methane -- to the destruction they've

already caused!!

Nor can anyone say for certain that this well can be stopped --

and the Atlantis is 7,000 feet down!!

[Uncle Joe]

119. I believe it's a perfect question.

1. When your home or a building is on fire, it's time to be "alarmist," whether all the previous fires have been put out or not. If you live in an adjacent building it may be wise to consider getting your shit out, whole neighborhoods have burned down before. Being "alarmist" allows you to make plans and alter course, sitting in comfortable denial won't change anything as it takes energy; created by survival instinct motivation to move inertia.

2. Just because previous leaks or gushers have been stopped at some point, sometimes after many months, doesn't guarantee that we will always be able to do so, particularly drilling this far below the surface of the ocean. If you invest in the stock market, they tell you "Past performance isn't a guarantee of future results," for a good logical reason; because it's not.

3. And for those people believing Kucinich to be a Cassandra, Cassandra could see the future and was always right, but nobody believed her, that was the curse.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[sulphurdunn]

120. There are an estimated billion

or more barrels of oil gushing out of that hole. At its current rate it could spew away for twenty years. That is not a worst case scenario. It's a doomsday scenario.

[wordpix]

121. this guy keeps wowing---he's right---it may have to just blow out on its own

[femrap]

123. I'm going to believe

that these relief wells will work...they have in the past.

But I keep remembering the words of that Petro Engineer a couple days after the blast....this oil/gas deposit goes underground up to central Alabama.

Shit.

However, after reading the following, I have grabbed my
:tinfoilhat:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/6088220/why-did-obama-turn-down-offers-of-help.thtml

click on 'effective method' within the article.

[suzie]

231. So, you'll quote the right-wingers as long as it bashes Obama?

And you'd like to have us believe that having the supertankers, which haven't been modified to do the skimming, interfere with the ships operating the ROVs and those drilling the relief well is a good thing because the right wing talking points say so?

Nice.

[femrap]

233. I don't

think suzie knows her right from her left nor her up from her down.

There's enough willful ignorance around so I'll just add another one to my list.

buh bye.

[suzie]

234. You've chosen to repeat the assertions of someone who isn't a petroleum engineer, but a creationist

You've repeated those assertions in various places, even though you were informed that they were the words of a creationist, not a scientist.

And you want to accuse me of willful ignorance when I repeat the explanation from Thad Allen as to why it isn't advisable to have supertankers interfering with the ROV ships and the Relief Well drilling ships?

I guess I can see why you'd want to ignore me, just as you've ignored those who revealed the truth about the "petroleum engineer".

[Child_Of_Isis]

124. unclouded by greed or partisan advantage

Corporate greed & polticians dependance on corp money for elections is the bigger culprit.

[LaurenG]

125. He's asking the right questions.

When we came close to going to war in the 60's, when we were about to annihilate each other the government had a plan. It may have been worthless, I mean hiding under chairs or against a wall in "the position" wouldn't have helped unless the bombs were far away, but in any case there was a plan. I am with Dennis on this, what should we do to insure the survival of as many people and creatures as possible should the well spew for years instead of months. Information and education can't hurt anyone.

I think the spewing will be slowed and then controlled and then stopped and it won't take years but what if it does, it seems to me that we should all know what to do and how to help each other.

[Overseas]

126. Excellent. K&R. His answer was my answer when I read the question.

Edited grammar.

And I would think that we ARE doing such things.

President Obama acknowledged that we need to stop talking about it and take action on freeing ourselves from being overly dependent on fossil fuels.

We will need fossil fuels for a long time to come, so we should treat them more like precious resources and supplement them vigorously with solar, wind and conservation technologies.

I think mass transit systems should be part of our national defense budget. Funding given to CITIES and states around the country to fund a broad range of mass transit vehicles and systems. We used to be told that military spending and NASA funding help us all because they develop new technologies for all of us. Well, let's keep going and expand that to mass transit. Try out electric vehicles and other technologies there, with defense dollars.

[customerserviceguy]

130. It is stoppable

it's just a matter of when the right thing is tried. I would expect more relief wells if the current two fail, perhaps they will do three or four at the same time in the next round. Ultimately, the nuclear option is out there, and will be used if the next round of relief wells is ineffective.

[OneGrassRoot]

137. BAM

“We should be challenging our fellow citizens and ourselves to take part in charting a new course for our nation towards creating an America that has unlimited energy because it has unlimited vision, unclouded by greed or partisan advantage.”

:applause:

K&R

[Radical Activist]

140. His call to action is similar to Obama's.

Time to get off fossil fuels.

[ProSense]

148. Yeah, except the President is

doing something about it and Kucinich voted against the House climate change bill.

[treestar]

141. Of course it can be stopped

But why does it have to be unstoppable to justify looking into alternative energy?

[ProSense]

143. Because otherwise

Kucinich would have nothing to say.

[elias7]

184. you've posted half a dozen posts in here and say the same thing

why don't you present something useful, like a factual basis for why you are so certain this can be stopped. You're anti-Kucinich bias is overwhelming your ability to be open minded.

[ProSense]

193. Sorry, are there facts in the OP to be refuted?

I see a hypothetical.

[northernlights]

170. um, there is nothing that says this can be stopped by anything other than

enough oil and gas having spewed to relieve the pressure.

There is no "of course it can be stopped."

There is no guarantee the relief wells will work. They are not fail-safe, anymore than the BOP was. And there is no guarantee they'll be done before any number of unthinkables happens.

[treestar]

208. the relief wells will probably work

There's never been an unstoppable leak before.

It it never stopped that would have undermined the concept we are running out of oil.

[ShamelessHussy]

224. "There's never been an unstoppable leak before."- However, there's never been a gusher at this depth

and there have been wild-cats that required unconventional means to halt, even on land, so I wouldn't be so confident in this conventional method.

BTW: Folks are not talking about infinite oil, just the gusher not stopping UNTIL the field is empty, or all the pressure released. just an fyi.

[femrap]

239. I just got this link

from Spirit of Ma'at

http://www.youtube.com/user/celtickev999#p/u/0/pZCvMQhbH-8

If this oil volcano 'burps,' FL is gone.

[northernlights]

240. actually there are several unstoppable above ground leaks right now

in other parts of the world. One has been burning uncontrollably for decades.

[ShamelessHussy]

223. how do you know? they keep telling us they've never done this kinda thing before at this depth, so

so what gives u so much FAITH in their abilities? :shrug:

and to answer your question... HEADLINES.

you get more attention by going with the extreme possibility, vs the mundane... the old "man bites dog vs. dog bites man" media truism.

:hi:

[Enthusiast]

144. Dennis is on to something.

And Dennis is far from the only one.

Our open water drilling operations should be regulated with a worst case scenario in mind. The gulf disaster is reason enough to regulate in this manner.

Had there been strict adherence to comprehensive regulation all along the drilling process the blow-out need not have happened at all. Still, if someone proposed a more strict regulation regime oil friend legislators would have squealed like the little stuck piggies they are.

But I agree with Dennis completely. We must have massive mobilization toward development of every feasible energy alternative while focusing strongly on efficiency. Let's give these 'oil men' something to really squeal about.

Of course there is no will to do this as long as our legislature is subject to outright bribery. There is no question that we find ourselves in this precarious situation as a direct result of oil money influence on the legislative process.

[NightOwwl]

172. About F*cking Time

someone asked this question.

[Duval]

182. Good question, DK!!

[laylah]

186. No One will listen to him because he is

short, old, and out of date. Dennis it THE best, but many do NOT want the best. They want to ignore, placate, fantisize about that which IS!

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOO wish our President would listen to us; however, he is yet another puppet. Shame on you, Obama, SHAME ON YOU!

[defendandprotect]

194. Was wondering where Kucinich was . . . and a sadly important question -- !!!

[Rex]

201. Then life as we know it will end and a new world order

really will take shape. One that doesn't have humans as the apex predator.

[Cleita]

204. I see this has turned into another bash Dennis Kucinich thread from

the Libertarian wing of DU. However, if anyone bothers to look at what he has said to sound alarms over the years, he's been right all along.

[kgnu_fan]

213. The most sane question that BP never asked before they drilled

[kgnu_fan]

214. And regulators never considered this very question

[Angry Dragon]

215. Just to put my 2 cents in

It is a fair question he asked. It is something that needs to be asked ever time a well is drilled.
I have heard of some reports that say the oil deposits could stretch all the way under Alabama. No one knows

I sat and read almost all of the posts and not one of you said anything about the dispersant that they are using could be worse than the oil that they are trying to stop. This could kill more wildlife and humans than the oil. It could affect the gulf states further inland if the storms pick it up. Think about that for awhile.

I am angry and sad. Nothing I say or do will change the outcome of this ECOCIDE to the gulf and we will all have to listen to all the finger pointing on who to blame. The taxpayers will pick up the tab and this country can not stand that price. I think what you may see is the collapse of the American economy and then a world wide depression.

[Slit Skirt]

218. I agree and it seems like they are moving very slowly

progress is ridiculously slow. They are blaming it on this, that, the coast guard, trying to get tankers in..but I do not believe it takes this long to mobilize.

there are 3rd party contractors just waiting to help, but no one is responding to them. I think
BP is just trying to get the oil for themselves..

Our gulf is dying and the people in that area are dying too...a very slow death...and it seems that BP and the oil is a bigger priority

Do you know right now that Cuba is mobilizing and their friends in South America are joining in to help them...
This reminds me of the response for katrina and 9/11...I mean are we really this incompetent????

[suzie]

241. The "all the way under Alabama" person is a creationist.

Do we now take the word of creationists because that benefits Dennis Kucinich?

[Slit Skirt]

216. this very well may be the scenario

you have to ask....
why is bp controling the media
why is bp controling the cleanup
why is bp not protecting the workers they have hired
why is bp not allowing anyone else to help with the cleanup?

Why is this government acting like this is BP's Gulf of Mexico?

Why aren't we in charge..or are we in charge hiding behind BP?

[kgnu_fan]

229. kick back up

[pitohui]

236. why if people stopped using our pain to create hysteria?

sheesh ten minutes ago it was peak oil and the end of civilization

now suddenly there is no end to the quantity of oil that can pour from the earth

hysteria and fear-mongering are not helpful, what if people would stop and think before inserting foot in mouth for a change?

[Fumesucker]

243. What if people would stop destroying our environment for a slight extra profit?

Do you live on the Gulf Coast?

Somehow I doubt it.