The executioners all volunteered for the job

[WileEcoyote]

Something wrong with all of them. Five executioners all volunteering for the nasty job. Hope they all get neuroses after wards.

Well yeah I know, its Utah and all of that dumb redneck shit. But this is a very negative emotion: The desire to cap some dumb son of a bitch. Just to put a notch in the sadist's belt.

The executioners were all certified police officers who volunteered for the task and remain anonymous. They stood about 25 feet from Gardner, behind a wall cut with a gunport, and were armed with a matching set of .30-caliber Winchester rifles. One was loaded with a blank so no one knows who fired the fatal shot. Sandbags stacked behind Gardner's chair kept the bullets from ricocheting around the cinderblock room.

Moments before the shooting, Gardner was asked if he wanted to say anything. "I do not, no," he responded.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100618/ap_on_re_us/us_utah_firing_squad



At least ways it seems that Utah won't be sending any more felons to the firing squad. Lethal injection from now on.

So the business of death can be carried out by doctors. You know, the people who work to save lives.

Ugly.

[Luminous Animal]

1. Sick fucks. No better than the man they are murdering.

[Xenotime]

21. Agreed. They got to satify thier bloodlust.

[Ken Burch]

80. The only people worse are the ones who show up outside the prison

And hold cook-outs to celebrate the executions. Those folks are pretty much a straight throwback to the Old West, or maybe even ancient Rome.

[madokie]

86. Exactly what my Stepson said last evening

That was murder clear and simple, no if and or buts about it.

[liquid diamond]

94. Your stepson is mistaken. Murder is a legal conclusion. It is

the UNLAWFUL taking of a life. Key word being UNLAWFUL. This was a legal execution. You don't have to like it, but you don't get to make up your own definitions of legal terms.

[Prometheus Bound]

2. Isn't that a mortal sin?

Won't they still burn in Hell for eternity?

[GreenStormCloud]

41. Depends upon the religion.

For most Protestant Christians, the answer would be, "No."

[nemo137]

78. Mormonism has some ideas about "blood atonement.'

It's part of the reason Utah kept the firing squad for so long.

[Ken Burch]

81. It may have been the only way they could stop music critics from wasting the Osmonds

:sarcasm:

[depakid]

3. I suppose better than being assigned to an odious task that one doesn't believe in

[Abq_Sarah]

35. I'm pretty sure

All executioners are "volunteers".

[Bluerthanblue]

37. and yet they are paid in cash for their action.

:shrug:
and given a commemorative coin.

[Ken Burch]

82. Wonder if any of those coins have ever turned up

in the Las Vegas pawnshops?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

4. Plenty of DUers would volunteer ...

... given a grave enough crime. Sexual assault on children (especially by priests) would be one such crime. Talking on a cell phone at Olive Garden, another.

Each of the five knows whether he shot a bullet or a blank. The difference in recoil is very pronounced.

[Fumesucker]

5. +1

[Fla_Democrat]

13. or the right person

I don't even think a crime would be necessary, certainly haven't been convicted, except in their own minds. :smoke:

[cliffordu]

14. Hey - Don't gang up on those priests.

That fucking cell phone deal, though??

I'M IN!!!!! FULL METAL JACKET!!!!!!!!

Some asshole had one go off THREE TIMES at an AA meeting the other night.

To be fair, one time it was the GPS function telling him he was where he was supposed to be.....

[Paladin]

23. In A Situation Like That, You Don't Notice The Recoil. (n/t)

[WolverineDG]

24. Hell, just saying that someone did that would be enough for those DUers

No need to waste tax payer's money with the whole silly "innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt" bullshit. Just shoot 'em because the mere accusation is the only proof needed.

:sarcasm: (added for the sarcasm-impaired)

dg

[951-Riverside]

31. I have no problem doing it.

And no I don't support killing people for sex crimes unless they knowingly passed along a life threating disease in the process. I find it funny that people get all up in arms over executions but treat a military members/vets with the highest respect.

Killing is killing and death is death. If any of you honestly believed in your views you would treat those serving in the Military very different. Remember John Kerry has 20 kills.

[Bluerthanblue]

34. killing in a war is still killing-

and I am anti-war as well as anti-death penalty.

This man was strapped to a chair, hooded, had a target pinned over his heart and was intentionally killed by his fellow human beings, NOT because he had a gun pointed back at them, not in a fit of passion, or in self-defense. The VAST difference between what the condemned man did and what those 'executioners' did was that they knew exactly what their goal was when they pulled the trigger. They has a CLEAR choice to NOT pull the trigger, or even be in the situation. They, (supposedly) were of sound mind, and not under any duress or responding in an irrational manner to the situation.
The Gardner killed trying to escape. He had other opportunities to kill during the escape, and didn't. I don't excuse or approve of his violent, criminal actions, BUT neither do I excuse or approve the premeditated, intentional murder of a human being under the guise of "justice" and with the blessing of our 'society'.

[stray cat]

6. Its compassion if you know you are the best marksman

do you want people who can't shoot having to repeat the job

[michreject]

39. For those who are interested

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2010/06/18/news/doc4c1bbc579a755971509221.txt

[spanone]

7. thou shalt not kill....no asteriks

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. As I understand it is more along the line of "murder" not kill

[Bluerthanblue]

25. actually, the hebrew word "Ratsach" to intentionally kill,

(as opposed to 'manslaughter' or kill accidentally )

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H7523&t=KJV

for those who hold to the "christ"ian perspective, Christ has many passages where he requires people to offer mercy instead of vengence.

(this is a personal pet-peeve of mine, many people see it as you have described. :hi:)

[spanone]

45. so killing is okie dokie? i can kill you but i can't murder you...alriiiiight

[951-Riverside]

29. The bible never specifies what you shall not kill

...think about that the next time you kill that ant crawling up your leg :)

[spanone]

46. i do

[Dark]

32. Yea, god really lived up to that commandment, didn't he?

Not only did he dole out death penalties for stupid shit (talking back to your parents), but he also killed around 2-3 million people himself.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. ah but, did 'he' really? the very first murder in the bible-

Cain's murder of his brother Abel should have brought 'the death penalty'- instead, 'god' banished Cain from his homeland and put a mark on him, so that anyone who thought of 'killing' him, would be warned, and declared that if anyone DID kill Cain they would suffer the same 7 times over.

:shrug:

[Hugabear]

107. Yep, god told his people to slaughter men, women, and children - leaving NOBODY alive

The Old Testament god was all into complete and utter genocide.

[Wildewolfe]

42. As I recall

The correct translation is thou shalt not commit murder.

Killing people in ways that do not constitute murder is not prohibited by that verse. Capitol punishment and wars to be specific.

That doesn't make capitol punishment or war any less horrific, it just makes it "legal" under that set of scripture.

[spanone]

47. you very funny

so i can kill just can't murder...i love religions :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[Wildewolfe]

50. Here are the references

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nokilling.html

http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?file=article&name=News&sid=225

Note, I do not support capitol punishment. I think it's far too common for an innocent person to be sentanced to death, and I support the quote "Better a hundred guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be falsely convicted".

I don't follow the Christian faith, but the above is core belief being taught, at least it was where I was raised.

That's why the abortionish killer thinks he didn't commit murder.

That's why we can fight wars

That's why we can execute criminals

That's why we can kill in self defense

In other words, like with much of the bible (and this being the old testiment it's applicable to 2 other religions I believe as well), it's open to some interpretation.

That, however doesn't make me an apologist for the act done. Just stating what the current biblical interpretation is generally considered.

With every capitol punishment that's carried out another person, who might not be guilty, will never get a chance to prove thier innocence. Now I don't know whether this guy was guilty, innocent, crazy, etc. But now he's Silent forever.

[Obamanaut]

52. But this commandment from the OT is only valid if one believes in the

stuff in the OT. Otherwise, it is mythology to many/most others.

BTW, there is a lot of killing in the very same OT, often ordered by the same author of the 'thou shalt not...' business. But, hey, consistency is not important.

[The Straight Story]

63. There are *'s, even in buddhism, when it comes to killing (nt)

[Styxiv]

118. Read further

Ya heard that one already BUT try reading the next chapter. God says "and eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth a life for a life etc" So PLEASE don't just read passages you like READ THE ENTIRE thing.

[Bluerthanblue]

8. and were given "commemorative coins" for their 'service'....

:shrug:

I heard this on the news last night, and just couldn't believe my ears.

But apparently it is true.

And then there are the pins that represent participation in the execution of a condemned man.

But no pin will be issued to commemorate Ronnie Lee Gardner's execution, which is scheduled to occur June 18.

Instead, Corrections spokesman Steve Gehrke said, officials will create a special coin that will be presented to staff members who play any role in carrying out the execution.

"The staff preferred something a little more modern than the ribbons," Gehrke said. "Since people don't walk around displaying those anyway, we're switching to a coin."

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700027698/Corrections-creating-commemorative-coin-for-Ronnie-Lee-Gardner-execution.html

:shrug:

[MattBaggins]

10. Volunteered... Commerative Coins...

These folks have the same sadist gene that the individual they are killing had.

Executioners are cut from the same cloth as the prisoners they murder.

[lpbk2713]

19. So that they won't carve notches in the stock of the rifles.

That would be mutilating government property.


:sarcasm:

[Brickbat]

9. It makes a lot more sense to me to have tools of the state do it instead of doctors.

Although the doctors are employed by the state as well, I guess.

It doesn't surprise me that there were many who volunteered, and I can understand how someone might feel like they wanted to be a part of it. I'm against the death penalty in all cases, but I am familiar with and able to confront my very human yearning for vengeance, and understand where it comes from.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Did they draw straws to see who gets to put the head on their wall?

[LynneSin]

15. BTW, if you read the article - Gardner asked for firing squad over lethal injection

The execution process was set in motion in March when the U.S. Supreme Court rejected a request from Gardner's attorney to review the case. On April 23, state court Judge Robin Reese signed a warrant ordering the state to carry out the death sentence.

At that hearing, Gardner politely declared, "I would like the firing squad, please."

He told his lawyer he did it because he preferred to die that way. Gardner was allowed to choose between the firing squad and lethal injection because he was sentenced to death before Utah eliminated the firing squad as an option in 2004. State officials did not like the negative publicity fire squad executions generated.

[Withywindle]

70. Yeah, that's the thing: He requested this method.

If we're going to put people to death, I really don't have a problem with them getting to choose the method. It's the least we can do.

Every time there's an execution, someone has to do it. Electric chair? Someone has to pull the switch. Lethal injection? Someone has to give the shot. At least with a firing squad, there are so many people involved it will never be known for sure whose bullet was the last fatal one.

I do not have a problem with condemned criminals getting to choose their method, sorry. Even if it makes people of our day clutch their pearls. We are not very far removed from the days when all executions were public (hangings, beheadings) and people turned out to watch like it was a spectator sport. We don't get to decide that any one method of choice is, "too bloody, too violent." Execution is bloody and violent.

[WeDidIt]

109. IF I had a choice, I'd rather have the firing squad than lethal injection

The first drug in the lethal injection paralyzes you, so nobody knows if there is horrible pain from the killing drugs or not. It simply looks humane.

I'd rather get four slugs in the heart.

[hunter]

16. I wouldn't want to live in the same house with any of them.

Hell, I wouldn't want to live in the same neighborhood with any of them.

[WileEcoyote]

17. When ya think about it its almost better that some dumb cops shot the bastard

Better than having medical professionals do it.

I don't want any doctor working on me who intentionally killed his last patient.

[salguine]

76. Why "dumb"? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[edbermac]

18. Yeah, those sick bastards killing that poor innocent man.

"Gardner was sentenced to death after being convicted of murder in 1985 for the fatal courthouse shooting of attorney Michael Burdell during a failed escape attempt. Gardner was at the Salt Lake City court facing a 1984 murder charge in the shooting death of a bartender, Melvyn Otterstrom when he took a gun smuggled into him and he shot Burdell in the face as the attorney hid behind a door in the chaotic courthouse."

[Bill McBlueState]

22. He wasn't innocent.

Those sick bastards killed a guilty man. I wish there were a registry (like the sex offender registry) for people who volunteer to participate in executions. I wouldn't want any of them within 100 miles of my daughter.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. no one says what Gardner did is ok- but doing the same thing

under the guise of "justice" is hypocritical at best.

If something is WRONG (in the way intentionally taking the life of another is) it's WRONG.

The family of the slain attorney understood this, they petitioned to have the sentence reduced to life without parole.

[Ilsa]

38. That bastard Gardner was so violent he had to be kept segregated

in prison. I am generally against the death penalty, but would make an exception in this case. That man is pure evil.

As for the executioners, I'm glad I don't live anywhere near them. But I'm glad someone was willing to execute Gardner the way he chose. I consider it a dirty job, but there is no reason to glorify it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. I suppose the alternative is "Hey you!" duty

:shrug:

If it has always been and always will be voluntary I guess I don't have to worry about MY name being picked.

[KansDem]

27. It's their once-in-a-lifetime chance to hunt the "Ultimate Animal."

Just think about it...they can "hunt" a human and kill him without fearing legal repercussions.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KonaKane]

30. You're forgetting this is Utah.

The state with that gave the most votes to GWB per capita, in the nation. Brimming with idiots anxious to shoot somebody. I wouldnt be surprised if there was a line around a five block area to take a shot at this guy.

[jmowreader]

44. You're also forgetting the man they shot

Ronnie Lee Gardner isn't Cameron Todd Willingham.

Willingham, as we remember, was the Corsicana, Texas, man who lost his daughters when their home burned down. The state used discredited investigative theories and an Iron Maiden poster on Willingham's wall to "prove" Willingham killed his daughters because they were interfering with his beer drinking and dart throwing (the exact words the prosecutors used), and he was put to sleep in 2004. Later we found Willingham was completely innocent, as he always claimed. The state of Texas hasn't admitted it yet, but they might.

Ronnie Lee Gardner murdered someone and got thrown in jail. While in jail he shanked another prisoner. He convinced an accomplice to cache a pistol in the courthouse where Gardner was going to stand another trial. Gardner murdered an attorney by shooting him in the face and non-fatally shot a couple other people--at least one later died from his injuries.

Some people just need shootin', and Ronnie Lee Gardner is at the top of the list.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. "some people just need shootin'"

:shrug:

You know a little about who Gardner was, however, look at his life from birth- look at how he was "raised", and you might have some understanding of how he got to be where he was. That doesn't change the facts of what he did, but it explains why he made some of the choices he did. What excuse do people who are 'rational' have for choosing to intentionally end the life of another human being?

Until we come to the realization that killing people to teach people that killing people is wrong, we are doomed to this downward spiral of violence and murder. If it is wrong to intentionally take another persons life, it's especially wrong to do so while claiming "justice" or "doing what is right".

(at least four of the jurors who voted for Gardner to receive the DP said that if life without parole had been an option at the time, they would have opted for that. It was not an option Utah in '92)

[Raineyb]

72. "Some peoople just need shootin'"

No. They don't.

[KonaKane]

102. I know well who Mr Gardner was. I was a Utah resident when all that happened.

And if I believed in the death penalty, I would agree with your post.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

33. That is VERY disturbing.

(but not surprising)

[GreenStormCloud]

40. Having a blank fools no one. Too many people get their gun info from movies.

A blank does have any recoil, a live round does. Further, unless the gun is equiped with a BFA (Blank Firing Adapter)the blank doesn't even make a loud noise. So each person who fired a shot knows what they fired.

[sir pball]

56. I don't recall where I heard it, but

It's supposedly a wax bullet, not a blank - you get the same feel as firing a live round but it's no more lethal than a paintball.

[GreenStormCloud]

65. A wax bullet wouldn't work as it is much lighter than lead, so much less recoil.

Law of physics.

[Paladin]

87. You're Wrong.

Anyone who's ever done any hunting has experienced this well-known phenomenon: When you pull the trigger on a living target, be it a deer or a human being, the recoil and even the muzzle blast don't register with the shooter to any appreciable degree. Too many other emotions at play. Nobody in that firing squad is aware of who had the blank round....

[GreenStormCloud]

108. Shooting in a firing squad would be markedly different.

I grew up hunting, and I know that when I shot a hunting shot I was not aware of recoil, unless I was in an extremely unusual position. But in hunting there are many other factors going on in the mind that are involved in taking game. Those factors are abscent in a Utah firing squad. If this firing squad was done like the last one, the shooter does not see the person. They are aiming through a box at a spot on a curtain. They don't see the person. They don't have the mental things going on that would be present in hunting, or even in trap shooting. It would more resemble firing on a range at a piece of paper, than hunting.

Further, I am confident that they rehearse it a few time to make sure everything goes correctly.

I stand by my belief that I would know if I had shot a blank or a live round.

[Paladin]

116. And I Stand By My Belief That You're Wrong.

Just because the shooters' full view of the human target might be restricted doesn't make it just another day at the rifle range. Far from it. "They don't have the mental things going on..."? Not bloody likely....

[AnArmyVeteran]

43. We know who the Gulf of Mexico's executioners are. But the paid prison killers are anonymous.

[Rex]

49. We must kill in the name of murder.

Let he who is without sin, fire the first bullet.

[Bluerthanblue]

51. or

"forgive us our sins, as (in like measure) we forgive others who sin against us."

Pretty condeming request for most people to make if they are really honest, unless they understand what 'mercy' and 'forgiveness' is all about.

"Christ" spoke quite a bit about how people should respond to wrongs done against them. Very little (if any) advocated *giving back as good as you got*.

:hi:

[Rex]

55. Mercy and forgiveness require higher brain functions

not so sure we have those anymore.

[frustrated_lefty]

69. Poppycock.

Explain to me how a pedophile deserves a second chance. No, take that back. Explain to the victims of child rape just how important it is that their rapist run free.

[ironic name]

53. The American dream is to kill some random person legally

[jmowreader]

106. But there was nothing random about killing Mr. Gardner

I think the death penalty should be reserved for people whose guilt is absolutely certain. If that was applied fairly, there would be almost no executions.

This Gardner schmuck meets the criteria--the fucking guy had a gun smuggled in and cached; when he got it he started a firefight and shot a lawyer in the face while attempting to escape. There is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind he did it. It's possible to argue his upbringing led him to do it, or whatever, but this man went out of his way to have the tools needed to kill people--he even set up a conspiracy to ensure a gun was within his reach.

[frustrated_lefty]

54. I'm in the minority, but some crimes warrant the death penalty.

And, this guy asked for a firing squad. I think that's fair. If you're condemned to die, it's right, in my mind, that you get to choose the method of said death, and, that you have the opportunity to choose a last meal.

I'm just a dumb redneck, though...btw, someone earlier commented on the rednecks in Utah. Rednecks are from the south, son. Pick a different name for inbred mid-westerners. Rednecks may seem odd to some of you people, but we can't hold a candle to the weird things coming out of the mid-west.

[Bluerthanblue]

57. Gardner asked not to be killed, but

if he was to be killed he asked that it be by firing squad, saying that there aren't any 'mistakes'.

I'm not so sure you are in the "minority" given that we still have the DP here in the US. I believe that until we stop killing to punish killing we are forever condemned to this ongoing cycle.

I don't see this as a "redneck" or any other 'regional' issue. People from all over the US hold views that I strongly disagree with. That doesn't make them any less human, rational, or credible than me- or anyone.

I DO think that it's too easy for people to support the DP based in part on the fact that it's done by "them" usually in a highly scripted manner, to people we are conditioned to see as other than 'human'.

You'll have to search for the facts on this guy Gardner, but if you do, you might be troubled by the un-told story of how he ended up where he was. I'm not saying that anything justified the murders he committed (he didn't try to cry 'victim' ever- his history is very sad)- but doing wrong to 'right' a wrong is still WRONG. It's far to easy for the 'public' to support the killing of another human, when the media sets up the perception.

You aren't a 'dumb redneck'- you are a person with a different perspective than me. Maybe someday we'll learn not to stereotype and marginalize people simply because they're exactly 'like us'.

:hi:
peace~

[frustrated_lefty]

58. You are a very polite person.

That's very cool.

I'm going to suggest a novel idea...I think we need to create a country where people don't have to, or desire to, perform crimes which warrant the death penalty.

The death penalty sucks, and it's barbaric. The US leads the world in barbaric crimes, though.

In all honesty, this is my measuring stick: how would I feel if said crime were perpetrated against my daughter? Not being a hyper-protective dad, or anything, but that's my yard-stick. Somebody somewhere else is a dad or a mom, and I look out for their interests just like I hope they look out for mine.

The thing, I think, that we have to fix is not the punishment, but the drive to perform the crime. Until we do that....we're going to live in an ugly world. :(

[pipi_k]

60. I hate to admit this, but...

as much as I don't like the death penalty, there are times when I am so outraged that I would probably kill the person myself.

Especially people who kill or abuse innocent animals and children.


Yes. In a fit of anger, I would probably be likely to beat someone to death who had done something to a kid or animal.

[liquid diamond]

95. It amazes me that some people here believe that NO crime

warrants the death penalty. What a world we live in.

[Bill McBlueState]

61. In 15 states, NO crimes warrant the death penalty

And those are mostly blue states in the progressive northeast and upper midwest. Things are just fine in those places.

[frustrated_lefty]

67. If you think things are just fine in Philly or Cambridge,

maybe you aren't getting around a lot?

[Raineyb]

73. If you think the death penalty will fix what's wrong with those places then I'd say YOU are the one

who isn't getting around a lot.

[Bill McBlueState]

84. ooh, so snarky. n/t

[pipi_k]

59. It would be better not to have a death penalty, yes, but...

it exists in the state of Utah.

What's supposed to happen? People who don't want to shoot somebody are going to be forced to do it?


I personally would not want to be traumatized that way. Yeah, I could probably tell myself the rest of my days that MY gun wasn't the one that killed another human being, but I don't think that would work. I know I would suffer nightmares and damaging guilt. Probably forever.

It's bad enough that a person has to be executed, but why make 4 people suffer the rest of their days wondering if they had killed someone if they really didn't want to?

Yeah, the DP sucks. But if there must be a death penalty, I think it's better that the person/people who carry it out volunteer, and aren't being forced to do it.

[frustrated_lefty]

68. They volunteered.

[Raineyb]

74. So we have sick fucks shooting another sick fuck but without sanction.

Yeah that makes a hell of a lot of sense.

:eyes:

[frustrated_lefty]

77. Without sanction?

You might want to read the law a little more closely before you start spouting off.

[Raineyb]

91. That's why late night posting is bad. I meant with sanction.

No punishment for this group of murderers.

[pipi_k]

90. They're sanctioned by the state. n/t

[pipi_k]

89. Yes, they did

Some people will do that.

But until the law is changed and there isn't a death penalty, what should happen?

People who DON'T want to shoot somebody should be forced to do it?

[Pithlet]

98. That's the only solution if no one volunteered? Force? Really?

And how would they force them? Threaten them with the death penalty? Hold a gun to their head? No. Probably not. If no one volunteers, there's no death penalty. But that's not going to happen is it? The reason there's a death penalty is there's always someone who's willing to do the job. That's what makes them murderers.

[flvegan]

62. And they're responsible for ending his punishment and suffering.

Shame on them.

[scrubthedata]

64. It's all sick. n/t

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ken Burch]

83. You pity executioners?

now THAT's pitiful.

[proteus_lives]

93. Embrace the stereotypes if you will.

Some of us have moved beyond that.

[Ken Burch]

97. I still don't get it

Why would you feel empathy for people who volunteer to kill somebody?

[proteus_lives]

99. I still don't get it.

Why would you feel empathy for a person who committed murder and is being put to death for their crimes?

[Ken Burch]

100. I get it that a murderer did a terrible thing and deserves punishment

Life in prison without the possibility of parole is punishment enough in such cases.

But my own belief(and that of a lot of other people)is that it's simply wrong for the state to kill people.

Nothing in THAT belief equates to having a soft spot for killers.

Plus, sometimes they do execute the innocent, you know. Like Ethel Rosenberg.

Why would you NOT think there's something warped in a person volunteering to help kill another person?

[proteus_lives]

101. "Plus, sometimes they do execute the innocent"

That's why there has to be intensive review per case.

"Life in prison without the possibility of parole is punishment enough in such cases."

Why? What is the purpose of keeping them around? Why give them the chance to hurt more people?

"But my own belief(and that of a lot of other people)is that it's simply wrong for the state to kill people."

My own belief (and that of a lot of other people) is that justified for the state to execute certain criminals.

"Why would you NOT think there's something warped in a person volunteering to help kill another person?"

Speculation. I'd have to see an interview with one of the guards or speak to them before I know whither they are warped or not.

[Ken Burch]

103. Apparently you believe in the death penalty.

I'm not going to debate that with you.

I was speaking specifically about the idea of VOLUNTEERING to inflict it. I really have to wonder about the humanity of a person who would volunteer.

(and no, I'm not talking about, say, the Bielski brothers wasting Nazi troops they'd encountered. I'm talking about the American criminal justice system.)

[proteus_lives]

104. " was speaking specifically about the idea of VOLUNTEERING to inflict it"

"Inflict it"

Such framing.

It's legitimate to wonder. If you ever cross paths with one of them, ask them about it.

I doubt they frame in their minds the same way you (or I) do.

[Ken Burch]

105. Saying "inflict it" doesn't mean negating the crime that resulted in the death sentence

It's simply the choice of words I made in that particular sentence.

Those who oppose the death penalty are just as repelled by the act of murder or any other form of violence as are those who support it.

Opposing the death penalty and wondering about the mindset about those who agree to, let's say, carry it out, is not the same thing as saying "it's no big deal that the guy killed that family".

And there is little evidence that executions actually heal the wounds of those who lost a loved one to the violence of someone else.

This country is not at all good with dealing with the pain of crime victims, and procecutors have little actual concern about such pain. They only pretend to to get re-elected or to move up the political ladder(following the cynical "crusading prosecutor" model that has become such a stock character in American film).

We need a better solution to this, one that goes deeper into the values of this society and how they've commodified and degraded all of us.

As a point of interest, was someone you know murdered?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

114. And some places don't have the death penalty.

They consistently tend to be better places than the ones that have it.

The reasons for that correlation are left as an exercise for the reader.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

112. Empty insults are empty.

:eyes:

[Lucian]

71. Sick fucks indeed. n/t

[salguine]

75. i've always been baffled by the whole "one rifle has a

blank cartridge in it" procedure. If you've done any firing of guns at all, from the shooter's standpoint, it's glaringly obvious whether a rifle has a blank cartridge or a live round in it. When you pull that trigger, you're gonna know which you had. I have no idea why they maintain that charade.

[nemo137]

79. Families of the executioners? Human capacity for self-deception?

I mean, if you can say "well, maybe Dad/my son/my husband/etc had the gun with the blank," you can sleep a little easier? That's about all I can think of.

[Bluerthanblue]

96. I believe it began as a way to ensure "reasonable doubt"

in case of future prosecution. But I can't recall where I heard that.

[madokie]

85. According to the article in our mornings paper, Tulsa World.

they were all police officers. Give that some thought for a bit. I say and have been saying for years that a large percent of our police officers should never be allowed to be police officers as this clearly shows.

[jennijohnson]

88. I hope they have nightmares about what they have done.

I hope they feel the burden for taking another life or else they are no different from Gardner.

[pipi_k]

92. Well they probably won't, seeing as how they volunteered.

If they hadn't volunteered...if they had been forced to do it, then yes...they would probably have nightmares the rest of their lives.

Bad enough it had to be done...why traumatize four people who didn't want any part of it at all?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

111. In this case they don't HAVE nightmares, they ARE nightmares.

If I knew an acquaintance of mine did such a thing, I'd work very hard to keep the greatest possible distance between him and me.

[pipi_k]

121. That's OK as long as you're aware of the fact that...

you could be coming into contact with people on a daily basis who have killed others in a similar manner.

People who go into the service. They might have to shoot and kill someone who isn't even posing an immediate threat. Or drop a bomb that kills many people.

Police officers who might have to discharge their weapons into a suspect...again, maybe not even someone who's an imminent threat.

Both groups know what they might be called upon to do. You don't shoot to wound...you shoot to kill, and that's that.


Even though I don't really like the death penalty, I have less trouble feeling anger and disgust toward those guys who volunteer to carry out an execution of a murderer than I do for people who kill or seriously wound children or animals for no good reason.

[WeDidIt]

110. In this particular case? I could have easily volunteered

Would have gone home after and slept like a baby, too.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

113. We know it. -nt

[Paladin]

117. I'm Glad I'm Not You. (n/t)

[apocalypsehow]

115. "Utah and all of that dumb redneck shit." - Nice. I've known a lot of good folks from Utah.

"At least ways it seems that Utah won't be sending any more felons to the firing squad. Lethal injection from now on.

So the business of death can be carried out by doctors. You know, the people who work to save lives."

The AMA specifically prohibits Doctor's from participating in executions. Same with the largest Nurse's association that has guidelines governing them.

[hlthe2b]

119. makes my skin crawl...

But, I don't know of a state where physicians carry out lethal injection... AMA ethics rules does not allow and that has come up before even in just advising on drugs, etc. However, they do conduct the post exam to declare death. They try to thrust the responsibility for conducting onto nurses (or technical staff that may far less training)... Is it any wonder they have managed to botch placing the iv catheters and had the drugs infiltrate the veins?

[Styxiv]

120. Actually no so

I believe there are still four people who can still pick that option. Firing squad was done away with for FUTURE criminals that option is no longer available, but older inmates could still choose it (as I said I think there are about four who could choose it. Also it wasn't done away with totally it's still an option IF say lethal injection were to be made illegal if so then firing squad would become again the method used.

[MrSlayer]

122. No different than setting a rat trap.

This guy deserved exactly what he got. I see no reason to lose sleep over it.