8 yr old boy's hat banned from school because toy soldiers had guns.

[madfloridian]

And it violated the school's ban on having guns at school.

Where has our common sense gone?

R.I. Boy's Hat Banned by School


This image made from video provided by WPRI on Thursday, June 17, 2010 shows David Morales wearing a cap he created to honor American troops to fulfill an assignment to decorate a hat in his second-grade class at Tiogue School in Coventry, R.I. School officials told him he could not wear the cap he decorated, saying it violated the district's no-weapons policy because the toy soldiers were carrying tiny weapons. (AP Photo/WPRI)

Christan Morales said her son just wanted to honor American troops when he wore a hat to school decorated with an American flag and small plastic Army figures.

But the school banned the hat because it ran afoul of the district's zero-tolerance weapons policy. Why? The toy soldiers were carrying tiny guns.

"His teacher called and said it wasn't appropriate," Morales said.

Morales' 8-year-old son, David, had been assigned to make a hat for the day when his second-grade class would meet their pen pals from another school. She and her son came up with an idea to add patriotic decorations to a camouflage hat. Earlier this week, after the hat was banned, the principal at the Tiogue School in Coventry told the family that the hat would be fine if David replaced the Army men holding weapons with ones that didn't have any, according to Superintendent Kenneth R. Di Pietro.

Note to principal. Soldiers do carry guns, real ones. I don't think the zero tolerance idea was meant to be carried this far.

[krispos42]

1. Well, those soldiers are carrying military-style assault weapons.

And we know that the 0.0762mm round those guns shoot can knock down airliners and pierce body armor.

Won't somebody think of the children?

[Grey]

2. Good, Dumb Kid, Dumber mother.

Should Dumber be spelled with 2bs, or not?

[madfloridian]

3. I taught that age group. I see nothing dumb about it.

He was proud to be honoring soldiers.

[The Straight Story]

14. Dumb is a 4 letter word that, in this case, starts with a G

;)

[TexasObserver]

18. Yes. Thankfully, there was a teacher with some sense.

[bluestateguy]

4. The dumbest people I have ever met are public school administrators

Nothing but professional bureaucrats obsesses with rules and policies.

[proteus_lives]

9. +1

[LARED]

11. Yep, +1 nt

[harry_pothead]

13. I'm going into teaching, and let me tell you sir!......

...that it's totally true.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

16. the one word that comes to mind when I think of public school admins...

Vogons...

sP

[One_Life_To_Give]

35. lol nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

71. EGG-zactly!

I was thinking the very same thing.

Principal Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz.

[rucky]

17. This is why teachers need unions.

Imagine being micromanaged by one of these "vogons"

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Don't most public school administrators start out as public school teachers?

[Javaman]

46. no. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. +1 n/t

[Art_from_Ark]

5. Second Grade-- during the Vietnam War era

Someone brought a GI Joe to show-and-tell to explain about his brother. Joe had a little toy gun. Nobody thought anything of it.

[TexasObserver]

20. That was a couple hundred years before Columbine, etc.

This is the year 2010, when kids bringing guns to school and shooting other kids is a real problem.

In the 1960s, we carried shotguns in our car trunks, and had them on campus every day. That isn't allowed any more, and for good reason. Times change.

[benEzra]

32. I wasn't aware that Columbine involved 1" plastic weapons in the hands of toy soldiers.

Silly me, I thought they used a sawed-off side-by-side 12-gauge, a sawed-off pump 12-gauge, a 9mm carbine, and a 9mm pistol.

To me, if a school administrator can't tell the difference between this:



and these:



then they are in the wrong profession.




Are history books allowed in class? There are dangerous HALFTONE INK GUNS on those pages!!!!

[TexasObserver]

34. Disingenuous. Columbine and other school shootings have caused changes.

If you want to pretend they haven't, you're free to do so, but this is 2010, not 1965.

Many, many parents, teachers and administrators have a serious objection to those toys you find innocuous, and they don't want them anywhere near other children. School districts are run by locally elected, democratically elected, boards, which set policy for the district. Don't like the district rules? Home school, move or send your kids to private school. Ignoring the rules is not an option.

[Art_from_Ark]

47. Have you ever seen a GI Joe toy gun?

The doll itself wasn't more than 8 inches high
The gun was much smaller than that.
It could never be mistaken for a real weapon

[TexasObserver]

48. It's about the nature of the toy, not the size.

The objection to such toys in a school environment is that they glorify war and violence, not just that they might look like a real weapon.

At home, it's up to each parent. At school, it's not.

[aikoaiko]

58. You are incorrect. It is about safety. period.

Everything else you mentioned is your own personal agenda and not a part of zero-tolerance laws or rules.

[TexasObserver]

73. More nonsense. It's about school district rules and their application.

Your agreement with the district or me is not necessary. You disagree. So what?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. Wait, now you're saying it's about glorifying war?

I thought you just said it was about Columbine. You're not moving goal posts, are you?

Oh, and the toy is completely innocuous, whether you're frightened by it or not.

[benEzra]

51. And if the overwhelming majority considers 1" plastic toy soldiers innocuous (which they do)

then you would agree on democratic principles that the school administrator overreacted, yes?

Toy soldiers are very, very mainstream in the broader culture.

[TexasObserver]

52. They can trot down to the school board and seek a rule change.

If you don't like what the democratically elected school board does, vote them out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Columbine and other school shootings have cause people to act very stupid.

But that's a reason, not an excuse.

[Raskolnik]

85. You're right. They have caused hysterical, reactionary, non-sensical rules

that do nothing to actually increase safety to become the norm.

You may be happy about that, but not everyone else is.

[SoCalDem]

6. Easy fix.. no hats

I always wonder when schools got so weird with school attire and why they cannot seem to come up with a sensible dress code, if they are too afraid to push for uniforms.

No logos
No hats
No shirts/pants/shoes/coats with "words"..except for the school-mascot or school name

simple..easy to remember, and non=controversial.

If a kid wants to wear a tea-bag hat or a soldier hat, or a unicorn hat..he/she can wear it at home or at church or at play

school is not a fashion show/political rally/church meeting/dating show.. Is it any wonder why the rest of the world is turning out scholars, and we are closing up schools & firing teachers & whining about how little our kids know?

[madfloridian]

7. Agree. But it was for "Decorate a hat" day.

But it is best not to do stuff like that. It was creative, though.

[SoCalDem]

8. The teachers should have been a bit more specific I guess..

I suppose teachers no longer help the kids make the obligatory "Father's Day ashtrays" anymore either:rofl:

[blueamy66]

38. Amen.

But this was for "Decorate A Hat" Day.

Anyway.....uniforms are the way to go these days....fixes soooo many problems.

[Obamanaut]

10. "Zero Tolerance" policies, for the most part, are ludicrous. If they

want to go to this extreme, nearly everything/anything can be a weapon.

While working as a corrections officer, I saw an inmate who had been stabbed with a pencil.

[CBR]

25. This is so true. One of my colleagues researches them.

There was a case here in Delaware where an 8 year old girl brought a plastic cake knife to cut a cake for a party her class was having. The teacher used the knife to cut the cake and then turned her in. She was suspended with a potential for expulsion. Thanks to the public outcry, she wasn't. Totally absurd.

[harry_pothead]

12. I played bang-bang games when I was in elementary school.

Like pretending to shoot with your finger and yelling "you're dead!." I shudder to think what would happen nowadays. Probably mass-suspensions, cop-cars everywhere, media circus, and a school lock-down.

[Posteritatis]

64. Kids are increasingly suspended/expelled/arrested over that now, yes

The more self-trepanned schools are starting to treat that as a death threat or something like that as often as not.

[aikoaiko]

15. No one with an ounce of critical thinking skills should have invoked zero tolerance here.

I am so glad GA recently changed it laws to move away from zero tolerance and allow principal discretion.

[TexasObserver]

19. No one with an ounce of critical thinking skills would agree with you.

[aikoaiko]

21. Really? Do you think the safety of the children was subverted in any way by that hat?

Let's hear your explanation of why zero tolerance should have been invoked, deep thinker......

[TexasObserver]

22. I think the hat was a contrivance by the kid's parents.

And I think it's appropriate for the school to tell the parents to take their hat and stick it.

Schools have adopted policies regarding kids bringing guns to school, drawing guns, or bringing toys that have guns to school. The policies are well founded in children's psychology. If you want to know why, look it up. I don't waste my time trying to educate the incurious.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. +1

[brendan120678]

30. Should we ban the Massachusetts state quarter from schools as well?

Oh noessszzz!!!

It's a GUN!!!

[TexasObserver]

33. Why don't you read the school district's standards and tell us?

I doubt their rules would be interpreted by anyone as you have.

Reductio ad absurdum is fool's gold, and that might explain your attempt to employ it.

[Raskolnik]

82. Banning a kid's hat because it had tiny toy soldiers with even tinier guns

is a pretty fine example of reductio ad absurdum.

[RamboLiberal]

31. I just love how some DU'ers just know someone's psychological

motives for everything. I've seen some here label these parent's tea partiers in a thread I started on this story yesterday.

They still sell toy soldiers and toy cowboys & indians in stores. Kids still play with them.

I played with these toys when I was a kid in the late 50's early 60's. I played with toy guns. I wonder how the hell I grew up to be a liberal.

News item. A lot of little boys & sometimes even little girls play with toy soldiers. And I'd bet a lot of their parents are not the political junkies like DU'ers, Freepers, Tea Partiers, etc. They are just busy parents trying to raise their kids the best they can.

[TexasObserver]

36. You're remembering your childhood, from over 50 years ago.

This is 2010. Different time, different set of rules.

I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, too, but I'm not confused about what year it is now. We do not have the same attitude about war toys today as we did 50 years ago.

[benEzra]

49. My kids are 11 and 9 *right now*, and the attitude is the same.

My daughter has toy guns, and toy soldiers, toy cars, toy airplanes, and toy superheroes. So does my son. A lot of the kids in our local schools are the children of real soldiers.

Where do you live that considers anything to do with the military to be evil? Any official freakout about toy militaria is certainly not broad-based. We're not talking about real guns here, or even toy guns; we are talking about little green plastic army men on a hat. The guns in the history books on the desk are more realistic.

[TexasObserver]

50. Irrelevant. School rules apply, not yours.

[benEzra]

53. I think the argument here is that the administrator went waaaaay past the spirit of the rules

into the realm of personal preference.

Would a student be allowed to bring in a copy of Time with a soldier on the cover? How about a newspaper with pictures of soldiers carrying weapons? Are they verboten too?

[Posteritatis]

68. Your goalpost-moving skills are extraordinary. (nt)

[Youkiddingme]

63. Listen...

The times may be different and the rules may be different but the people are the same. I grew up with weapons all around me, I played games all the time which depicted killing other people. I watched movies about other people being killing, watched the history channel and saw people being shot point blank in the head. When I was in high school I never once went to school and shot anyone. No why? Because my parents raised me to not be a moron, these namby pamby school teachers and administrators are going way too far with the wussification of the kids today. They try to pretend like nothing ever bad happens in the world and worry if they show the real world to the kids, all hell will break loose. Whether it be fear or lawsuits or w/e, it's wrong. Btw to all the people who say "not obeying the rules is not an option", just because it's a "rule" doesn't make it justifiable. It used to be a rule that black americans were not allowed to vote, guess we should have blindly obeyed that rule right? If you're too afraid to question rules and ask yourself and speak up about what's really right and what's just plain over the top. Then you are un-american and need to leave this country, America was formed on violence, we came here took land and killed to do so, then we killed the people who tried to come and take it. Was that the best way? Probably not, but that's the reality of it, and no matter how much any of you want to deny it, the world is full of horrible things that everyone at some point in their life will have to face. I worry about these kids and what happens when they are thrust into life and come across some real hardship, because the way they are brought up, they have no way of dealing with it. Oh and do give me the "well we will teach them to deal with it or them in a nice polite manner", well guess what some people don't care too much for politeness and are going to kick the kids face in the dirt. And it will be all your fault, all because you were too weak to show your children the world and how and how not to deal with it. There is a time and place for violence and I'm talking defense not robbing or raping. That's the parents job to teach them the difference. This kid was trying to be patriotic and the school got worried the other kids might see it as violent and do what? No I think what happened was the school became angry their policy wasn't followed to a T. I mean really, some schools don't even allow tag or jump roping, high fives, etc. It's ridiculous, you might as well hand over America to whoever wants it, because if policy continues this way for years to come, no one will be tough or brave enough to defend it or stand up for anyone's rights.

[TexasObserver]

72. Nonsense.

[RamboLiberal]

75. Some kids today have better war toys than I ever dreamed of

Ever look at the airsoft guns? Airgun or paintball war games. Or how about all the fantastic video games - many playing very graphic & futuristic shooter realities.

And you can still buy those plastic army men today.

Only time the attitude changed about war toys was for a short period in the 70's because of the pushback against the Vietnam war & the concern of violence on TV. Didn't last long.

I will admit that the kids playing with toy guns ala cap guns isn't as prevalent as it was when I grew up - but then again how many kids do you see playing on the streets or in the woods. Doesn't happen cause parents are afraid to let them play in the streets or woods so they take them to organized activities or the kids are inside at the video games - many of them shooter games.

[TexasObserver]

79. I don't share the aversion to guns that some have.

My posts are about the right of the school district to make such a policy, to enforce it, and to interpret their rules as they see fit. They're about the rationale the district uses, about the trend in districts this direction, and about the history of gun violence that has led to such changes in the way schools run.

I explain that a school district is democratically elected. The board hires a super and establishes standards within the schools based upon the law and community standards. Admins enforce those standards. Unhappy parents and citizens can petition for changes.

This district in the OP has a hard attitude about guns in school. That is this district's choice.

Why did the child bring such a decorated hat? I don't believe for a moment there was no parental involvement in that process. It appears to have been created not by the kid, but by his parents.

Whether one agrees with a policy that is harsh is a personal matter. Whether a district has and enforces a policy is up to that district, within the confines of the law. This district has made its mind up on the topic, and its admins and teachers apply the standard.

Those in the thread who argue in favor of the hat do so because they don't agree with this district's decision, to which I would respond: It's not your district, so fret about your own district. This one doesn't care for your opinion.

[Raskolnik]

84. Stupid rules are stupid rules, whether in 1950 or 2010.

[snooper2]

40. scary scary think of the chi-den! think of the chi-den!

I think we should put a ban on all water guns in parks as well...

Everyone knows one day your 7 year old is squirting a friend with water and the next day that child will want to use an Uzi :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Quack

[aikoaiko]

55. There is nothing in the psychological lit showing that possessing plastic toy soldiers is harmful

Why don't you show us this literature that you allude to?

I'll be waiting for the citation.

[aikoaiko]

56. By referring to the rules or laws, I cannot see how you justify banning the hat under zero-tolerance

The gun in this toy is not a "look-alike gun" for this


Here is the zero-tolerance policy from the Providence RI School District:

http://www.providenceschools.org/media/84014/parent%20hanbook%200910%20eng%20ed.pdf">ZERO Tolerance for Weapons and Violence
Any students found to be in possession of a weapon, or involved in an aggravated assault will immediately
be referred to the Student Affairs Office for a hearing that may result in exclusion from school from 60
days to 180 days, or for a duration in accordance with Rhode Island State Law.

If the weapon involved is a gun or look-alike gun or falls into a category covered by the federal Gun-
Free Schools Act of 1994, a mandatory one-year exclusion for a period of one hundred eighty days (180
calendar days) will be in effect after due process requirements are met. In all cases involving weapons
or aggravated assault in school or on school grounds, the local police will be contacted. School grounds
include, but are not limited to, actual property owned by the school, areas around the schools, parking
lots, school-sponsored events (whether on or off school grounds), school buses and school bus stops.

Here is the text of GFSA that the above refers to:

``PART F--GUN POSSESSION
``SEC. 14601. GUN-FREE REQUIREMENTS.

``(a) Short Title.--This section may be cited as the `Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994'.
``(b) Requirements.--

``(1) In general.--Except as provided in paragraph (3), each State receiving Federal funds under this Act shall have in effect a State law requiring local educational agencies to expel from school for a period of not less than one year a student who is determined to have brought a weapon to a school under the jurisdiction of local educational agencies in that State, except that such State law shall allow the chief administering officer of such local educational agency to modify such expulsion requirement for a student on a case-by-case basis.
``(2) Construction.--Nothing in this title shall be construed to prevent a State from allowing a local educational agency that has expelled a student from such a student's regular school setting from providing educational services to such student in an alternative setting.
``(3) Special rule.--

``(A) Any State that has a law in effect prior to the date of enactment of the Improving America's Schools Act of 1994 which is in conflict with the not less than one year expulsion requirement described in paragraph (1) shall have the period of time described in subparagraph (B) to comply with such requirement.
``(B) The period of time shall be the period beginning on the date of enactment of the Improving America's Schools Act and ending one year after such date.

``(4) Definition.--For the purpose of this section, the term `weapon' means a firearm as such term is defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code.

``(c) Special Rule.--The provisions of this section shall be construed in a manner consistent with the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act.
``(d) Report to State.--Each local educational agency requesting assistance from the State educational agency that is to be provided from funds made available to the State under this Act shall provide to the State, in the application requesting such ?assistance--

``(1) an assurance that such local educational agency is in compliance with the State law required by subsection (b); and
``(2) a description of the circumstances surrounding any expulsions imposed under the State law required by subsection (b), including--

``(A) the name of the school concerned;
``(B) the number of students expelled from such school; and
``(C) the type of weapons concerned.

``(e) Reporting.--Each State shall report the information described in subsection (c) to the Secretary on an annual basis.
``(f) Report to Congress.--Two years after the date of enactment of the Improving America's Schools Act of 1994, the Secretary shall report to Congress if any State is not in compliance with the requirements of this title.

[TexasObserver]

74. Then you must not be able to understand simple sentences.

The district interprets its rules. You don't.

Their interpretation wins. Yours isn't even considered. Besides, your conclusion is incorrect. The gun in the toy soldier qualifies under the language. That you don't think so is neither surprising nor relevant.

[Raskolnik]

83. Looks like the ACLU does not share your assessment of the situation.

Are they also devoid of critical thinking skills?

[Posteritatis]

61. Critical thinking skills are banned under zero tolerance policies. (nt)

[EdRow]

23. AAAH!! The wonderful world of "political correctness".

What BS it is.

[TexasObserver]

37. Hey, troll, Free Republic is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>

[NNN0LHI]

43. Boy that one didn't last long

[TexasObserver]

44. Fastest Tombstone Ev-er!

I had to get a post mortem lick in, just for the hell of it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

66. How does one get tombstoned after zero posts?

That's a record which will be hard to beat. :rofl:

[TexasObserver]

76. Pretty amazing, isn't it?

Doesn't seem possible, and yet, it's there.

That's the main reason I responded to it. I wanted to be able to find it later, so I could see if the post count changed.

[mod mom]

27. Good. Not appropriate for school.

[dionysus]

28. stupid rule... and stupid hat. a stupid twofer.

[MadBadger]

39. Good...that some ugly looking hat

[NNN0LHI]

41. Why do parents dress their little kids up in camouflage clothing to begin with?

I am starting to think they want them to wander off into the woods and not be found.

Don

[RamboLiberal]

77. Cause kids like camo and the clothing companies marketing

it and having it made in third world countries know that.

Why do some parents let their daughters dress provocatively?

And adults like the urban camo look as well.

Haven't you noticed how we've over-glorified the military since Gulf I?

Pendulum swung way the other way since Vietnam.

I don't think we've yet hit the healthy balance.

Respect those who serve. Pay them a decent wage. Take care of them & their families especially if hurt or killed. But don't appoint them automatic heroes. Question the damn Pentagon budget and quit being the biggest mud-stomper and cop on the planet!

[CBR]

42. I think that kid is a real danger...

:eyes:

[jp11]

45. Hardly zero tolerance, the kid is a weapon, his brain is a weapon, etc close the school down.

[madfloridian]

54. Surprised. This is about common sense.

Common sense applying rules.

Not much of that anywhere anymore.

[fascisthunter]

59. absolutely ridiculous... thanks for making us on the left look worse

because you know we will be blamed for this shit.

[NeedleCast]

62. More ludicrous zero-tolerance at work

[lumberjack_jeff]

65. Ludicrous.

All boy behavior is now pathology. This is an excellent vignette explaining why girls are 50% more likely to attend college.

Anyone who believes that his hat (created for a classroom assignment) was unsafe is an idiot.

[ItNerd4life]

69. Zero Tolerance = Zero Brains. nt

[Lucian]

70. Common sense has gone out the window long ago.

That question shouldn't even be asked anymore.

I think zero tolerance has gone way overboard. I can understand banning water guns and such. Fine. They may look like real guns. But banning a boy's hat because the army figures have plastic guns on them is well...moronic. Those guns can't be misconstrued as real guns.

[EFerrari]

78. "She and her son came up with an idea to add patriotic decorations to a camouflage hat"

So, now guns are patriotic?

Good for the school for sticking to their boundaries.

[benEzra]

80. Plastic toy soldiers. (n/t)

[benEzra]

81. Good to see the ACLU weighing in on this.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100618/ap_on_re_us/us_army_hat_banned

Also Friday, the Rhode Island chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said it sent a letter to Coventry Superintendent Kenneth DiPietro saying the school's policy was an unconstitutional violation of students' free speech. It called on the district to revise the policy.

DiPietro did not immediately return a message seeking comment.

It's good to see the ACLU weighing in on this.