PSA: If you hit a cyclist, the last thing they want to hear is: "I didn't see you"

[taterguy]

That might be acceptable if it's night and the cyclist isn't illuminated. Or if there's some obstruction that obscures vision.

But if it's broad daylight on a straight road and the cyclist is only doing 13 mph and you just back out of your driveway and clip the guy because you weren't paying attention . . . DO NOT LET THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF YOUR MOUTH BE: "I didn't see you."

Here's what the cyclist wants to hear:

"I'm sorry

Are you ok?

I am so sorry.

What can I do for you?"

Even if the cyclist is not injured and his bike isn't damaged, offer something. Anything. Just something to compensate the guy for scaring the living shit out of him.

And yes the cyclist might yell at you. That's a normal reflexive reaction to almost being killed or severely injured. Get over it and don't take it personally.

This rant may or may not be inspired by the brain-dead mini-van mama that backed out of her driveway at (ADDRESS DELETED) at 8:03 AM this morning.

Pardon the interruption.

[Fumesucker]

1. Ride in such a manner that if you were invisible you wouldn't get hit anyway..

It's true both for both bicycles and motorcycles and is the only way to survive long term on either one sharing the road with cars.

[taterguy]

3. I do that 99% of the time

It's the 1% when I slip up that's the problem.

Honestly, it's a trade-off.

I could ride down the middle of the lane at rush hour and piss people off.

But I try to be polite and stay to the right, which makes me a bit vulnerable to EXPLETIVE DELETED that pull out of their driveway without looking.

[dgibby]

25. Are you Ok?

Hope you didn't get hurt. :hug:

[taterguy]

50. No physical injuries, just scared the hell out of me

20+ plus years of cycling in traffic and first time I've made contact with an auto since I was 15 and ran a stop sign.

Self-medicating right now.

[dgibby]

53. That's good to hear.

Don't overdose! The "cure" could be worse than the disease!:rofl:

[HereSince1628]

9. Good advice, because people see what they look for

usually that's a motor vehicle with four wheels.

The search image in an auto drivers mind often excludes motorcycles, bicyclists, as well as pedestrians and preschoolers playing on the sidewalk.

Horrible things follow letting that common phenomenon hold our mind's attention. It takes diligence to develop the habits of NOTICING what is out there to be seen.

[Dappleganger]

58. Why is this expected of bikers but not cyclists??

I wonder how on earth the cyclist expects to be treated any differently than someone riding on a motorcycle. We are expected to have working lights all the time, use our horns, use turn signals. We still are to drive as if nobody else sees us and then cyclists expect the same but without giving any warning?? It's your life, you should do everything within your power to announce your presence on the road instead of acting like an elitist (and the ones in our area DO act elitist while they are on their damn cell phone and riding in a pack!).

[Fumesucker]

61. I ride and have ridden both..

I don't know where you are but here in quasi rural GA, both types of cycles are fair game for cars and there are virtually no bicycles on the road and few enough motorcycles that we still wave to each other, even the Burgman rider that passed me the other day waved..

[DailyGrind51]

Like riding in between lanes of traffic.

[taterguy]

88. If I'm in between lanes of traffic, how is someone backing out of a driveway going to hit me?

I guess they could.

If they tried hard enough.

:shrug:

[DailyGrind51]

183. Just hope that either one of the cars you are riding in between doesn't have to swerve

in your direction to avoid a pothole, or just because he had a really bad day!:evilgrin:

[Fumesucker]

109. Odd, that in the state with by far the most motorcycles lane splitting is legal..

Also in much of Europe where motorcycles are far more common than in the US lane splitting is legal.

Go to London and watch motorcycles and scooters trickle through every single traffic jam. Yes, it's frustrating sitting in your four wheeler while other people get to move by your stuck ass.

Think about what the most common accident is in heavy traffic, someone rearends another vehicle, if you are on a motorcycle you just got severely injured or killed by that impact, if you were between the lanes of cars and trucks you didn't get hit from behind.

[Codeine]

162. Lane splitting is the norm here in California.

It makes me nervous to see those guys passing side mirrors with a hair's breadth of clearance, but they seem to do just fine. Doesn't bother me.

[DailyGrind51]

193. But you can easily get side-swiped,

while a driver is attempting to avoid a pothole or something else in the road.

[sandnsea]

2. And clearly didn't see you

That's what I'd say if I hit or almost hit someone.

OMG, I didn't see you.

And then of course, I am so sorry, are you okay, can I help you in any way.

[taterguy]

4. Say "Sorry" first

Trust me.

[sandnsea]

23. I might not say it at all

I might say OMG I didn't see you, are you okay, do you need an ambulance, can I take you somewhere, do you need to come in and sit down, do you need some water, oh look you scraped your arm can I get you a band-aid,

and never get around to "I'm sorry".

People are different. As long as she didn't kick you in the nuts and tell you to ride better, I'd say you've got nothing to complain about.

[Telly Savalas]

114. "nothing to complain about...."

other than getting hit by a car, you mean?

[sandnsea]

133. In terms of dialogue n/t

[TexasObserver]

29. If the bike rider is at fault, he should apologize.

If you think anyone owes you an apology for riding in front of them, you're mistaken.

Your belief than drivers who hit bikers should automatically say "I'm sorry" before anything else is asinine and without any logical or legal basis. If the biker is blameless, an apology is in order, but not otherwise.

[sandnsea]

57. Well I'm sorry he was hurt

and I had nothing to do with the accident.

I just don't think someone should judge how another should act in a moment of trauma.

I might respond like I said above or I might swear at the person and tell them I hate bike riders and who knows what else.

Everybody is upset in the heat of a moment like that. There aren't any "rules".

[BrklynLiberal]

5. hmmm Wonder what she would have said to a small child walking in the sidewalk in front of her

driveway...

[Fumesucker]

7. Hell, people run over their *own* kids..

Happens pretty regularly.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. Sad..but true.

[hobbit709]

6. If you see someone backing out of their driveway

don't count on them seeing you.

[taterguy]

8. Six posts til the blaming the victim starts!

:toast:

[hobbit709]

11. Calling for situational awareness is not blaming the victim.

[TexasObserver]

12. They're not the victim if they're violating the law.

The driver who hits them is the victim, not the bike rider who rides between lanes of traffic and blindsides the cars.

[damntexdem]

15. OK, I'll be glad to -- if only I can figure out who the victim is.

[Arugula Latte]

22. If they ride on the wrong side of the street, they're not the victim.

[HuckleB]

70. If...?

:shrug:

[JoePhilly]

39. My wife had a cyclist swerve in front of her ... she avoided him ...

and then at the next light ... he started to bang on her passenger window.

Stupid occurs in cars and on bikes.

[TexasObserver]

10. But that is unfortunately true too often. It should be said.

When a bicyclist darts out of nowhere into traffic, they often startle drivers.

In the bike v. car battle, I see a lot more dangerous bike riders than I see dangerous drivers. It's particularly true in heavy traffic areas such as downtown.

Far too many cyclists play "King's X" with their bike status. They ride in the lanes of their traffic as per law, but when the traffic lights stops traffic, they go into "King's X" mode, and ride against the law. They don't stop. They ride between cars. They don't stop at lights, they evade them.

If you ride a bike, worry about how you ride and worry about how other bikers ride. Many bikers ride as if the law doesn't really apply to them, except to the extent they want to rely it for their right to a lane. Whether the car is wrong or not, it's your leg that will get broken, your bike that will be destroyed, so don't take unnecessary risks, ride defensively, and don't disobey the law simply because you're riding a bike.

[B Calm]

16. The #1 rule of the road, the one with the biggest wheels wins! If you

are going to share the road with bigger vehicles, then know your place and drive that bicycle like someone with a brain!

[TexasObserver]

18. The liability is on the person violating the law, whoever it is.

A bike rider who doesn't yield right of way to an 18 wheeler, who rides in front of an 18 wheeler, and who is injured by such a collision is still the liable and guilty party. His status as a bike rider doesn't alter his breach of duty and the liability that attaches to him by virtue of that act.

In fact, he's liable to the 18 wheeler.

[B Calm]

24. What good is it being in the right if your dead?

[damntexdem]

32. A halo?

;-)

[HuckleB]

92. Sorry, but, if you're actually paying attention, there are many more dangerous automobile drivers...

... try again.

[TexasObserver]

98. Perhaps where you live.

As I stated, many if not most downtown bike riders constantly violate the law and almost cause accidents with their dangerous and thoughtless riding.

[HuckleB]

100. So cyclists outnumber drivers where you live.

Wow!

[TexasObserver]

104. I've noticed you don't use logic in your approach.

That's probably why you have so many unsafe encounters with cars.

If you are having a lot of bad encounters with cars, it might be time to look at the obvious reason.

[HuckleB]

106. I'm using logic.

Apparently that confounds you.

[TexasObserver]

108. No, you're using your bias to confirm what you believe.

If you will be a safe, responsible biker, you won't have ugly encounters with cars.

I see most drivers follow the law. I don't ever see a biker who is remotely concerned with obeying the law. It's the "King's X" attitude, and its practitioners sometimes end up as a hood ornament because of that attitude.

[Fumesucker]

111. And of course you are completely unbiased in your observations..

:eyes:

I don't ever see a biker who is remotely concerned with obeying the law.

[HuckleB]

112. Look in your mirror, then make that statement.

If you do it, you will have offered provided something that resembles an accurate assessment today.

Give it a shot. Who know? You might like it.

[Ms. Toad]

146. Then explain this

>>If you will be a safe, responsible biker, you won't have ugly encounters with cars.<<

For starters, I obey traffic laws when I ride, so if I end up as a hood ornament, it will have nothing to do with lack of respect for the law.

I was riding on an organized ride, with signs posted along the route well in advance of the ride notifying residents in heavily populated areas that riders would be on the route.

I was riding in my lane, with the flow of traffic (pretty heavy bicycle traffic, as there were about 1500 riders on this particular route), going about 18 MPH when I noticed a truck pulling down to the end of its drive and slow down significantly as it approached the sidewalk. That was the last point at which I could have stopped prior to being in the driver's path out of his driveway. It appeared he was stopping and looking - and with that many bicyclists we're pretty hard to miss.

Apparently, he did. He accelerated out of his drive into me (I was behind of him at that point). I screamed as I noticed his acceleration starting and kicked his rear bumper when it came within my reach, to get his attention before he ran me over. Apparently the scream got his attention, as he managed to slam on his brakes in time not to knock me over (the kick would have been too late to accomplish that). I Locked pedals with the rider who came up behind me, but miraculously neither one of us hit the pavement.

I was being a safe, responsible biker, and that was certainly an ugly encounter with a car - and if I had become a hood (or rather trunk) ornament that day it would have been because of the driver's extreme negligence in not looking for anything other than motor vehicles before pulling into traffic - despite the numerous signs in the neighborhood in which he obviously lived warning him of the bike traffic that day (not that he should need any special warning, but his behavior is particularly egregious because it happened despite the warning).

[damntexdem]

13. I saw a cyclist hit yesterday, and it was obvious that the driver didn't see the bicyclist.

The driver obviously didn't know what had happened, but could tell he'd hit something and stopped before actually running over the bicyclist.

The driver was turning out of a driveway onto a one-way street and the bicyclist was riding the wrong way, next to the curb, and likely couldn't be seen from the driver's side of the pickup.

I stopped and gave my card to both and told both that I had had a clear view of the entire thing.

My evaluation is that both were at fault, but the bicyclist most of all.

And the pickup's driver was a cop in uniform.

[TexasObserver]

17. The sole fault was the bike rider's.

The driver has no duty to "check" for a bike or driver on a one way street, if that driver or rider is going the wrong way.

That is a zero liability case for the driver, with 100% liability on the rider.

[damntexdem]

33. There is still a need to scan where one is going.

E.g., there could be a pedestrian, including one obeying the law.

[TexasObserver]

37. Not for bike riders going the wrong way down the street.

There is simply no duty on a driver to check the other direction for cars or bikes, when backing into a one way street, or pulling onto a one way street.

If there's a sidewalk, the backing driver has a duty to look both ways for pedestrians, always, because a ONE WAY sign doesn't apply to pedestrians. It does apply to bicycles, and any biker who rides the wrong way down such a street is at fault if someone backs into him.

[Ms. Toad]

147. So you have a legal right to ignore objects

which should be visible when you check both directions (as you are obligated to do - especially if there is no sidewalk) for pedestrians?

Pedestrians, walking in the street, would have been walking on the same side as this bicyclist was (illegally) riding. I am not defending the bicyclist's actions - when I am riding, I ride with the flow of traffic - and when I am driving I make some pretty rude gestures to bicyclists who are pretending they are pedestrians in order to get them to move to the side of the road they are legally required to ride.

The point I am making, though, is that even on a one way road drivers are obligated to check both directions because pedestrians who are following the law - regardless of whether they are on the sidewalk (if available) or the street (if a sidewalk is not available) may be legally approaching the driveway from the wrong direction. That creates an obligation to check - and, when the driver is checking, he is not legally entitled to ignore things he could or should have seen.

The bicyclist was primarily at fault - but to the extent the bicyclist could have been seen if the driver had checked BOTH directions for pedestrians, the driver also bears some portion of the fault.

[TexasObserver]

152. When a biker rides the wrong way down a one way street, 100% negligence.

You don't have to like it.

[Ms. Toad]

154. You asserted the driver, in some circumstances

had no obligation to look in both directions. That is incorrect - as I have pointed out. Pedestrians may always approach from the "wrong" way, either on the sidewalk or the street - and drivers pulling into traffic are legally obligated to look for them.

Failing to look both ways when legally obligated to do so is a negligent act. If harm results from that act, in a state in which damages are awarded based on relative negligence of the parties, the driver may well be liable for some portion of the damages.

Not defending the biker - just pointing out that a driver who fails to look both directions when pulling onto a one way street IS negligent. There may or may not be financial implications to that negligence - depending on the practices that particular state has adopted with respect to contributory or comparative negligence.

[TexasObserver]

155. No, I asserted the driver has no duty to lookout for a biker riding the wrong way.

There is no duty on the part of a driver to be on the lookout for a bike going the wrong way, or a car going the wrong way, down a one way street. The driver's duty to be on the lookout for a pedestrian does not accrue to the benefit of the bike rider going the wrong way.


When a driver turns right onto a one way street, he has a duty to be on a lookout for cars and bikes coming from the direction of traffic flow, not the other direction.

[Ms. Toad]

175. You misunderstand the law of negligence

but I don't expect understanding it would have any impact on your belief so I won't bother.

[TexasObserver]

180. I've been practicing law for over 30 years. YOU don't understand negligence.

It's always amazing to me how people like you - who know absolutely nothing about negligence or law - think they can learn what takes years of real education and training by reading something they found online.

You don't know what you're talking about. If you ride the wrong way down a one way street and a driver lawfully driving on that street hits you, you're 100% at fault.

There's a reason no one pays you for your advice. Learn to take advice from people who know more than you.

[Ms. Toad]

198. Actually, they do pay for my advice.

as an attorney. Although I've only been practicing half as long as you, I think being #1 in my class, and #1 on the bar exam says I know something about the law.

[Arugula Latte]

21. I was pulling out of a gas station driveway once and almost hit two bicyclists

They were screaming furious at me. I was completely shaken up and tried to convey an apology as they zipped by. Then it dawned on me that they had been on the wrong side of the street.

[damntexdem]

34. When I was a kid, I learned to ride a bike in the direction of traffic, and otherwise obey rules.

But I have always known of bicyclists who insist on riding against the flow of traffic as "safer," including going the wrong way down one-way streets. I'm sure that some of them were taught to do it that way. But I have still never been able to understand how they could do it -- it seems so counter-intuitive to me.

[Ms. Toad]

148. Not only counter-intuitive -

but against the law, in most places. The distinction is between wheeled traffic and non-wheeled traffic. Wheeled goes with the flow; non-wheeled goes against.

[MrCoffee]

14. Heh... a cyclist said that to MrsCoffee after he ran into her while she was walking

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

20. I ride my bike on sidewalks.

I don't really care what city ordinance says... I don't want hit by a vehicle.
All I have to do be smart and observant near/crossing hidden or occluded driveways.

If there is no sidewalk or people are on it... well than I ride on the grass.
Mtn bike tires aren't wide & knobby for no good reason. :)

[Romulox]

26. Actually, cars backing up is MORE of a hazard to a cyclist on a sidewalk. nt

[hobbit709]

28. So you're admitting to breaking traffic laws

While demanding that automobile drivers follow them.

[damntexdem]

35. Well, Onetenth didn't actually demand that automobile drivers obey the rules.

Only stated that he/she broke the law by riding on sidewalks.

Of course, that brings in the hazard of bicyclists to pedestrians.

[backscatter712]

30. I play it by ear.

There are some cases where the roads are designed for bicycles - I use them whenever possible, and in those cases, I use the bike lanes, and I even encroach in traffic when the situation demands it so I don't get doored by a parked car or get clobbered by someone backing out of a driveway.

There are other roads that are not built for bikes, and riding your bike on those roads is just suicidal. In those cases, I do use the sidewalks. In some cases, the sidewalks are the designated bike path, and even have things like little tunnels under the crossroads.

But I try to avoid bike-hostile roads altogether.

The danger with using sidewalks is that it's hard for people to see when coming out of driveways & such - in those cases, it is literally safer to be riding on the road, where you're more visible. You could also be clobbered by a car turning into a driveway or sidestreet (the infamous Right Hook,) because you're less visible on the sidewalk than on the road.

[hedgehog]

67. I follow your pattern. While I generally ride in the road with traffic,

I may on the very rare occasion use the side walk under special conditions ex.: two lane bridge where I'd be holding up traffic.

[TexasObserver]

41. Then you risk being backed over and being 100% at fault.

If you get hit on a sidewalk, you're at fault. You have no legal right to be there. A car backing out has the right to be on the sidewalk for as long as it takes to cross it. The car is charged with keeping a lookout for pedestrians on the sidewalk. The car does not have to look for cyclists or other cars on the sidewalk.

If you ride on sidewalks, you'll eventually hit a pedestrian, or their dog, or a car, and you'll be 100% at fault.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

59. Versus riding on busy roads... that risk is much easier to cope with.

[MajorChode]

201. Actually the risk is greater

The vast majority of vehicle/bicycle accidents happen at intersections (which includes driveways). Vehicle drivers expect to see traffic in the roadways which is where they look for it first. Riding on the sidewalk means you are less likely to be seen and more likely to be hit. That's why riding on sidewalks is illegal just about everywhere.

[LostinVA]

42. I can ride on the sidewalks where I live, and I do

[TexasObserver]

44. Are you saying it is a legal practice, or merely that you do it?

[fishwax]

it's legal here (though not on all sidewalks)

[TexasObserver]

76. It is legal in some towns and communities.

Rarely in any big city, however, which is where the rub seems to be.

Most big cities don't allow bikes to ride on sidewalks.

[fishwax]

82. in many cities it depends on whether it's a business or residential district

[TexasObserver]

84. Yes. The more cars, the less friendly to bikes.

We all expect bikes in residential areas. But not freeways, not super highways, not toll roads.

[LostinVA]

77. It is on ALL the sidewalks here

I even emailed the PD to make sure after I read the Code, and didn't see anything saying I couldn't (in VA, it's legal unless the town or city has a specific law saying you can't). You just have to obey traffic flow and traffic signals.

[TexasObserver]

83. Thank you. I'm glad you found out and it is legal.

Each community has its standards, and it's important to know and follow those standards. I've lived in very biker friendly areas, and others that were not friendly at all. A biker who is accustomed to the practices around the university should not think such practices will be observed in the bedroom community 15 miles west of downtown.

Driving downtown is hectic as it is. Bike messengers dart out of every blind spot, against traffic, against lights, in between lanes, etc. Those are the bikers who create so much antipathy toward bikers. But even among "good" riders, there's often an attitude that they can pretend they're not subject to the stop sign or the light, since they're on a bike.

Most drivers give bikers as wide a berth as possible, but it doesn't take very many drivers with attitude to make the life of bikers miserable. You bike slower than most traffic, so you'll have hundreds of cars pass you. Some won't be as safe as others. They might be your average cell phone addict, with no intent to single out bikers. They may be oblivious to everyone.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

27. I'd rather hear "Wanna beer?"

[damntexdem]

36. In heaven there is no beer.

That's why we drink it here.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

138. WHAT!!??!! That's it! I'm atheist now!

"Ah, but a man's reach should grasp his beer, or what's a heaven for?"

Browning, sorta.

[taterguy]

48. Ordinarily I'd agree but the incident in question took place at 8:03 AM

Of course if the person in question had one speck of decency she would have gotten my address and left a cooler full of the stuff on my front porch waiting for me when I got home from work.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

[Gidney N Cloyd]

68. Scotch?

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. I have a better one: "My mom is going to kill me".

The rider who was removing his helmet and still brushing off road grime might have told the young lady that she had "a more immediate problem", at which point she locked herself in her truck until police arrived.

Allegedly.

[Prometheus Bound]

38. How do you respond to "I didn't see you."

1. Oh, well, that's okay then.
2. Thank God. You didn't do it on purpose then.
3. You mean you didn't do it on purpose then?
4. Well, duh!
5. What the fuck does that mean?
6. Are you fucking blind?
7. Speechless!

[taterguy]

49. I think my response was: "Well, did you look?"

[Prometheus Bound]

51. Sensible response.

[lumberjack_jeff]

99. CAN YOU SEE ME NOW???

that's how I do it.

[eShirl]

40. better than "I saw you but decided to hit you anyway"

[Nikia]

150. My cousin recently died in an accident where the driver is quoted saying something like that

It seems that my cousin was at fault in the accident where he was driving a scooter. The driver of the other vehicle said that he would have risked going into the ditch to avoid hitting him so he hit him instead. Driving a large vehicle, he must have felt fairly secure that he could hit my cousin without much risk of injury to himself and with less damage to his vehicle than if he went off the road. While I know that it was my cousin who didn't obey traffic laws at that moment, the driver's attitude bothers me.

[Jennicut]

43. My brother, the diehard 60 miles a day cyclist, has had a lot of close calls.

He is very visible, wears bright red or yellow racing suits. Remember to really watch before you back out your cars.

[LostinVA]

46. And open car doors, and make a right turn, and a dozen other things

[Jennicut]

123. Yes. It can get dangerous for cyclists sometimes.

He is real careful about how he rides and is at a semi-professional level, doing races a couple times a month.

[kentauros]

172. Yes, the "Door Prize",

the "Right Hook" and the "Right Cross"

http://bicyclesafe.com

Once I get back on my bike again, I should print that site up to hand out to drivers and cyclists.

[LostinVA]

45. I walk or ride my bike to work every day, and almost get hit every day

At least several times, and I 100% follow the rules of the road (as I do when I drive my car). Why? Because many, many drivers do NOT care about anything but making that light, making that right turn before the light changes, no matter if there's a pedestrian in the crosswalk and they have the white walking man. Tonight, I almost got hit SEVEN TIMES. Walking. In less than two miles.

These threads ALWAYS have scads of rants against careless cyclists. Ha. Put down that stone you're about to cast. My observation and experience sees something much different.

I am the new Taterguy. I only drive my car once a week.

[HuckleB]

89. +1,000,000,000,000,000,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[unblock]

47. notwithstanding what the cyclist wants to hear, you should never apologize at the scene

by all means, you should try to mitigate damage and be helpful.

"are you ok?"
"do you need help?"
"would you like me to call an ambulance?"

these are all fine and appropriate.

apologizing does the cyclist a very small amount of emotional good in that moment, but it seriously undermines your legal case. as others have noted, it's entirely possible that the blame and liability and guilt was not yours, or was only partially yours. apologizing goes a long way toward accepting more than your fair share of responsibility.

in the heat of the moment, you're unlikely to notice whether or not the cyclist was operating completely legally, or whether the collision was a result of negligence or gross negligence by the cyclist or by you; a dangerous intersection; or just dumb luck.

maybe the cyclist was texting and not looking.


the time for apologies is AFTER THE DUST HAS SETTLED and it's clear who's going to pay for what.

[TexasObserver]

62. "Oh, I'm sorry! Did I break your concentration?!" - Pulp Fiction

Yes, saying one is sorry at any accident is a really bad idea. You're exactly right.

The first words one should utter: "are you ok?"

Not "I'm sorry." Never "I'm sorry."

[Xithras]

113. Yep, I know a guy who lost a mint because of that.

He was driving down a busy road and looked down at his radio for just a moment to change the station. Had he not, he might have seen the guy who pulled out of the shopping mall parking lot without looking or stopping. Because he had, he braked a moment too late and hit the guy. Mall Guy's unbelted six year old son was hurled through one of the cars side windows as the impact spun his car. He was injured pretty badly, but recovered with no lasting damage.

The first thing Radio Guy did was hop out of his car and apologize, admitting that he'd glanced away from the road for a moment. Two witnesses heard him. When Mall Guy later sued Radio Guy for damages (the hospital bills exceeded his insurance coverage), the two witnesses verified that he'd admitted partial fault. The judge split the damages 60/40 (with Mall Guy taking the majority of the fault), which stuck Radio Guy with more than $10k in damages (CT scans and emergency neurosurgery are quite expensive).

Had he kept his mouth shut, fault would have been assigned 100% to Mall Guy because he pulled out of the parking lot without stopping or looking. Radio Guy's big mouth, and the witnesses who heard it and repeated it in court, were the only things that sunk him.

"I didn't see you" is an admission of partial guilt. Even if the rider was riding illegally and caused the accident entirely by their own stupidity, in many states that admission is sufficient to stick you with at least partial damages.

[PM Martin]

129. Very true. Never admit guilt.

[cbdo2007]

52. I see way more cyclists acting stupid on the roadways than drivers around cyclists.

Like why do cyclists not think they need to stop at 4 way stop signs? And if there is a group of cyclists and a short break in between them, the laggers need to also stop at the 4 way stop because cars do not intuitively know there are other cyclists behind the ones we can see. Also, we can't see them before 6:00am and after 9:00pm so please don't cycle during this time.

[HuckleB]

72. So there aren't very my automobiles where you live.

Interesting.

[LostinVA]

91. hehehe

[pitohui]

54. then don't dart out and try obeying traffic laws for a change

my friend was traumatized by hitting and seriously injuring a biker, even tho it was proven that the biker was at fault and the biker got the ticket -- it's still damn stressful to have caused serious harm to someone w. yr car when all you meant to do was drive to the store

i have only a small taste of what he feels, because one time a kid on a bike suddenly darted out and FELL DOWN right in the road in front of me as i was driving down the street, a few seconds more and i might have killed that kid thru no fault of my own

bikes don't belong on the same streets as cars, and bikers need to follow the traffic laws and take some responsibility for the fact that they are smaller, less visible, and have a tendency to believe the law applies to everybody but them

"i'm sorry" is words you'll never hear at the scene, esp. when it's unknown who is at fault or when it's likely YOU were at fault, we live in a litigous society, it will be up to police/courts to decide who is sorry, not the biker or the driver

[HuckleB]

101. Of course, no one has ever hit and injured another automobile and driver who was at fault.

And even when that does happen, there is no trauma for the driver who is not at fault, right?

[Ms. Toad]

149. Whether you believe it or not -

>>bikes don't belong on the same streets as cars<<

Whether you believe it or not, in most jurisdictions they do. That is where bikes are legally required to ride. There are some places where bikes are permitted on sidewalks, but they are the minority.

[Dappleganger]

55. There are cyclists who are talking on their cell phones in our area!

They regularly cross over from the bike lane into the driving lane, even while riding in a pack.

I kid you not!

[Dems to Win]

56. Were you wearing BRIGHT yellow or orange clothing?

If you ride a bike, please wear the brightest, most obnoxious colors in the palette. I occasionally get scared in my car, when I suddenly notice a biker nearby who I didn't notice earlier, because they are wearing black.

I will ALWAYS give a bicyclist a wide berth, when I see them. They need to do their part to make themselves visible.

[taterguy]

65. Is your car BRIGHT yellow or orange?

I was wearing black pants but due to the bright sunlight I think the contrast would make me more visible.

If the person in question was fucking paying attention.

[hedgehog]

69. I think more cars should be bright yellow or orange. I think the gray,

dark blue and black cars tend to blend into the background. I'm checking for cars going 40 to 55 down my road as I go across to the mail box. Sometimes that little smudge on the horizon turns into a car really fast!

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

117. All cars have lights on all four corners.

modern cars have daytime running lights that are on at all times.

[LostinVA]

145. And bikes have to legally have a certain amount of reflectors

And lights at night.

[treestar]

74. Thank you. One time, at NIGHT, a bunch of kids in dark clothing

on dark unlit bicycles crossed the street right in front of me. They could have seen my headlights, but just obliviously crossed the street without even caring! And there were other cars around too.

[HuckleB]

93. Did they ride on your lawn, too?

[treestar]

96. No, they were in the middle of the street, in the DARK

I nearly had a heart attack and slammed the brakes.

I still remember those ghostly figures.

[HuckleB]

103. "Ghostly."

But you said they were dark.

Hmmmmm.

[treestar]

130. I can't believe you are defending this

the right of bicyclists to wear dark, have no lights, and cross the street at night, without looking?

Really?

It's one thing to urge people to look out for them. But you're calling me wrong in this?

Whatever I read said if you are bicycling at night, have a light and wear very bright clothing. And of course follow the rules - rather than just cutting across the street at night.

[HuckleB]

132. What am I defending?

Your story, which you can't even keep straight?

Try again.

:rofl:

[aikoaiko]

60. How about, "hey, I was just checking your defensive riding skills - you suck"

;)

[county worker]

63. You do wonders for the popularity of bicycle rides here at DU!

Get the hell over yourself!

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[county worker]

66. I ride a bicycle, a motorcycle, a car and I walk.

Neither makes me anything special nor does it for you.

You know, that elitist attitude really sucks!

[LostinVA]

79. I think it DOES make you "special" if you can walk or bike to work and do

I have coworkers who live a mile and a half from work and drive. It's disgusting. I actually think it's rather immoral, espcially when you take a look at the Gulf.

[county worker]

81. I am 70 miles from work one way. I can ride a bus if I want.

[Posteritatis]

71. Cyclists have popularity here?

About one hundred and fifty percent of bike-related threads here tend to turn into "the car is never wrong" wankfests.

[county worker]

78. Let me guess, you don't have a clue as to why that is.

[LostinVA]

80. +1

[HuckleB]

87. +1

[treestar]

73. Just because the cyclist got hit does not mean they are 0% at fault

for the accident. That depends on the facts.

When I'm the one on the cycle, I'm extra careful - but that's just me. I'd certainly pay enough attention to see people backing out of driveways. Hell, I do that when driving a CAR.

[TexasObserver]

75. They can and often are 100% at fault.

If they are going the wrong way down a one way street (which happens a lot in downtown traffic), and someone turning legally onto the one way street hits them while properly turning onto the one way street (which happens a lot in downtown traffic), the rider is 100% at fault. They are not allowed to be going that direction, so there is no duty to look out for them.

[taterguy]

85. When in this thread is it stated I was going the wrong way?

Maybe if I was drunk, but I don't do that anymore.

What possible actual information do you have to indicate that the cyclist in question (me) was breaking the law?

Or do you just feel like injecting your bias into any thread, regardless of the actual facts?

[TexasObserver]

97. Where in my post do I mention or allude to you?

It's not always about you. I was replying to the other poster, and I made clear a circumstance in which a biker is 100% at fault.

I don't know if you were at fault in your accident, but I certainly don't take as the gospel your version of what happened. Your attitude about drivers owing you a duty to speak as you would have them is indicative of your likely road demeanor. Thoughtless bike riders catch a lot of hell from drivers for a good reason.

[treestar]

94. And mere self preservation says if you are smaller and less visible

and going the wrong way down a one way street, you're the one who should look out! I'd do it out of mere self preservation, that's what amazes me about bikes and motorcyclists who get hit. Why rely on the non-negligence of others?

I used to work on accident cases and whenever a motorist hit a bike/motorcycle or kid, they'd feel so bad, even if they had no fault in the occurrence of the accident. But most of the time, it was the other party at fault - bikes or kids coming out without even looking at traffic.

[TexasObserver]

102. It's almost always the bike's fault when there's a bike-auto collision.

The bike rider is riding on a road that doesn't allow bike traffic. The biker doesn't obey the stop sign or the traffic light. The biker rides between traffic. The biker darts out of a blind spot into traffic. The biker rides on the wrong side of the road. The biker rides the wrong way on a one way street. The biker cuts across five lanes of traffic without having time to make it.

[HuckleB]

127. A wee bit of reality is good for everyone.

http://www.portlandpersonalinjuryaccidentlawyer.com/library/carbicycle-collisions-whos-at-fault-portland-injury-attorneys.html

[treestar]

131. Or riding on the sidewalk, which actually is illegal in some states

Bikes have to follow the traffic rules - cars can't drive on the sidewalk, so bikes can't ride there.

Causes a lot of accidents when they are on the sidewalk.

[HuckleB]

86. As a frequent pedestrian and cyclist, I get it.

At the same time, I do think that we have to be honest about the state of the mind once such an incident has occurred. Yes, the driver may very well be at fault, but they are now in a very emotional, frightened state, and to expect them to offer up the exact manners that we would like is probably not realistic.

[nonconformist]

90. Years ago I was walking through a parking lot when a car backed out and hit me

It was an older couple, and he just suddenly bolted out of his parking space into me. All they said was "Oops, didn't see you. Sorry." and went on their merry way.

My arm was pretty bruised up and I was shaken, but otherwise unhurt.

Funny thing is, I have always wondered why they didn't ask me if I was ok. I think I would have preferred them asking that rather than saying sorry. I guess maybe they assumed I was ok because I wasn't twisted on the ground in a bloody heap, but still. It just seems polite to me. Sorry can be rather meaningless.

[petronius]

95. Don't say "I'm sorry" either - unless you want to get smacked by your

insurance agent... :)

I'll say things like "Are you OK?" or "May I assist you?", but nothing to admit fault. At least, I would say those things if I was such a poor driver as to run over a cyclist in broad daylight...

Glad you're OK!

[taterguy]

115. Don't say "I'm sorry" unless you have a speck of human decency

Time to get over this lawyer-phobia.

I wasn't injured.

And the person in question could tell because I was still upright, and not in a bloody heap.

Damage to my bike was questionable, even then it was probably less than an average deductible, and certainly less than what I'd take the trouble to sue over.

All I wanted was a little kindness after a traumatic event.

Is that too much to ask?

Apparently it is according to some of the heartless bastards in this thread.

[petronius]

116. The kindness would be in asking if you're OK and offering to help

Not admitting fault has to do with the overly-common jackasses who think every bump or scrape is a jackpot - it's good advice and I stand by it (despite the somewhat flippant intent of my first post).

By the way, I said in my other post that I was glad you're OK, and even though you've now implied that I'm a heartless bastard without a speck of human decency I've decided not to retract that sentiment...

[JVS]

143. Exactly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Glad to see you are ok

our issue here is the YMCA parking lot. They are coming out to a major road and most drivers FORGET that the bike lane goes BOTH WAYS.

Shall we say I always slow down when approaching those three drive ways when going to the coffee shop and also coming back? Too many close calls and yes they have hit a bike or two... and in this case the bikes HAVE right of way... they are the ones on the MAIN ROAD.

Now coming out of my apartment, bike riders go through reds regularly.

[JerseygirlCT]

107. Well, I nearly hit one a couple of weeks ago.

Of course, he was riding on the wrong side of the road, turning onto the road I was making a right turn out of... Luckily I did see him. But if I hadn't...

It happens more often than I like to see - some riders don't seem to understand that they, too, need to follow the rules of the road.

All that said, in your case, minivan mama most certainly should have been looking.

[IDemo]

110. A dental appointment may have saved my life

I was driving the truck to the dentist's office on the same route I normally bike-commuted on my last job. Ahead of me, a heavily distracted woman swerved into the center turn lane and twice all the way into the bike lane, nearly striking the curb once.

:banghead:

[lbrtbell]

118. Cyclists need to pay attention, too

They don't understand that much of the time, we can't see them. Especially with the way newer cars are built, with the thicker panels between the windshield and front doors. I'm always careful to look both ways twice, because those panels have caused me not to see SUV's! If an SUV can be obscured, imagine a little bicycle. :(

I used to ride a bike, and I was appalled by how other bikers think that everyone sees them. My rule of the road was simple: Ride as if the driver can't see you. I'd stop for people backing out of driveways, and let them go first. I'd obey the rules of the road--it's astounding how many cyclists think stop signs don't apply to them! For the record, riding 13 mph while a minivan is backing out is asking for trouble. Try driving a minivan, and you'd see how many blind spots there are. Do what I always did: Get on the sidewalk (if there is one) and STOP so the driver can see where you are.

I realize that there are a lot of horribly careless drivers who are often at fault for accidents. That's all the more reason that cyclists have to take responsibility for their own safety.

You also have to understand that the driver is often scared to death--nobody wants to be responsible for hitting someone on a bike. They're shocked and frightened, and it's only natural to think, my God, I didn't even see that person!

In a perfect world, drivers would always be able to see pedestrians and cyclists, and properly yield the right of way, but this isn't a perfect world. So when we get out of the car and hit the road on bike or on foot, we have to be doubly defensive. Even if we have the right of way, it's not worth proving your point, because it takes a lot more time to recuperate from an accident, than it does just to let the car go first. And I say this as someone who literally once had a foot run over by a car turning a corner far too closely. :(

[HuckleB]

125. Most cyclists pay far more attention than your average motorist.

That's my assessment. Period. End of story.

[Better Believe It]

119. And if I hit a cyclist who is violating basic safety rules and traffic laws I should say ....

"Hey asshole, are you trying to commit suicide" or "are you a total fricken idiot?"

Help me out on this.

Thanks.

[Better Believe It]

120. What about skateboarders who like changing lanes on the freeway?

Can I hit them without getting into trouble?

Just asking.

:)

[951-Riverside]

121. The first words out of my mouth would be "Stay still. Don't move." ...

we can worry about the rest later in Court.

[Earth_First]

122. So when do you come out in support of traffic tickets for cyclists not obeying traffic laws?

I see this countless, COUNTLESS times on a daily basis. I see left of red, coasting through intersections on red. I see cylists riding two, three wide. I see cyclists riding against traffic. I see cyclists run up the center of two lanes of stopped cars at intersections. I see cyclists with earbuds in their ears. I see it all, yet most times this goes without attention by law enforcement officials. However, when any one of these situations comes into play when a cyclist is hit, it often times at fault of the driver who was obviously, not paying attention.

I'm all for sharing the road, however it would be nice for a cyclist education program which involves the proper attention to the laws that also govern cyclists...

[HuckleB]

124. Cyclists get busted just like motorists.

End of story.

[Better Believe It]

160. Only if they get hit by a car.

[11 Bravo]

173. Horseshit. I drive in D.C. a lot, and couriers or Lance Armstrong wannabes ...

violate the law with impunity all the fucking time. In all the years I have lived here, I have never seen a cyclist cited for a violation. Does that mean it doesn't happen? Nope. But any claim that the ratio of cyclists vs motor vehicle operators busted in relation to the number of offenses committed is a load of crap.

[LostinVA]

135. I hope you forgot the sarcasm smiley

Cyclists get tickets all the time. I bet way more than motorists, proportionally. Around here, anyway.

[bluesbassman]

126. What would you rather have heard? "Crap, you're still alive? I missed!"

Look man, I have been riding one kind of a two wheeler or another for going on 50 years and I still don't always see bikes whether it be pedal powered or a full dress Harley, and I'm looking for 'em. So guess what? If I had been that driver I would have said the same thing and it would have been the truth.

Knowing that, when I ride, I assume nobody sees me. Ever. So when somebody drifts into my lane, or pulls in front of me, I just think about the times I did it because "I didn't see you".

[taterguy]

134. I stated what I would like to hear in the 5th line of my OP

Maybe you didn't read that far.

:shrug:

[PM Martin]

128. UNREC.

Cyclists should not be taking up the entire lane as they do all too often.
They also need to obey the traffic rules like everyone else, which they and their motorcycle cousins do not.

[LostinVA]

136. Cyclists are LEGALLY ALLOWED to take up the whole lane

Oh, I didn't know drivers always followed traffic laws. Who knew?

[JVS]

142. What I hate is the chucklefuck bikers who pass me on the right hand side while I'm ...

at a stop sign that they're blowing through and starting up my right turn. Bikers are entitled to take a whole lane but they are not the only ones entitled to take up a whole lane. They should remember that when they feel the urge to start passing stopped vehicles.

[LostinVA]

144. In some states that's legal

It isn't in Virginia, bit I do know they are allowed to move to the front of a lane of stopped vehicles, though they are supposed to stop. I know some cyclists don't, because that way they get a "head start" and won't slow down cars.

[county worker]

163. In CA if a bike lane is blocked then the cyclist has the right of way in the lane he/she has to get

into. It's the law and I am not a everyday cyclist but I give them the right of way when ever I can since my car or motorcycle is more powerful and the could get the worst of a collision with me.

[taterguy]

137. This thread wouldn't be here if I had been taking up the whole lane

I was trying to be polite and riding on the right side of the road, so I wouldn't block traffic.

Seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Ms. Toad]

153. Cyclists are legally bentitled to the entire lane -

just like every other vehicle on the road, and I do obey the traffic rules when I am biking on it.

I ride at least 3 feet from the right edge, line of potholes, or cars because I need to be able to safely (i.e. with my bike under control) pull to the right on a solid surface when driver decides to see how close they can get to my right elbow, and if there are parked vehicles there is always a risk of doors opening.

If I rode right on the right edge, and a driver underestimated how wide their car was - accidentally or deliberately, without that safety margin I would be at risk of losing control of my bike when my tires hit the gravel/grass/pavement drop off and I might land under the car.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

139. I'm glad you're ok. Next, how's the bike?

I hate relacing wheels. Tedium.

:hi:

It's not easy to back up a minivan while swatting a loud kid, talking on the phone, and applying makeup. Cut her some slack.

[taterguy]

156. Bike seems to be ok but I'm taking it to the shop tomorrow

Thanks for asking

[JVS]

140. "What the fuck did you dart out like that for? You Asshole!" is much better.

[Jamastiene]

141. You should know better than to cycle close to Midlo.

You know she's bound to hit you. She's probably still in war mode from last year.

:rofl:

She's gonna kill me for this post. Hey, Midlo! :hi:

:hide:

[leeroysphitz]

151. When I hit a cyclist the last thing I want to hear is that it's ALL my fault.

I'm not the only one with eyes and ears. (I ride my bikes everyday BTW)

[alarimer]

157. Well if they run a stoplight (as I see cyclists do ALL THE TIME)

They are responsible for the accident, not the driver.

[Codeine]

159. And they'll defend their right to roll stoplights and stops signs

to the death! If you're too lazy to pedal that toy back up to speed after a full stop then you probably shouldn't be riding one.

[county worker]

161. But don't you like the Halloween costumes they wear?

Fucking spandex city! And those helmets! Give me a fucking break. Take a head dive with one of those and you're still dead! I must admit I was into buying the lightest bike with the best Italian and French equipment, but I moved up to motorcycles.

[Codeine]

158. And people say vegans are self-righteous? Damn, get over yourself.

If I'm obviously at fault I'll apologize, but if the cyclist is in the road where he belongs I'll see him and there won't be an incident.

If he's on the sidewalk it's his own damned fault, and my insurance company will be pursuing him to pay for the damage he's done to my car. This situation is PRECISELY why people aren't supposed to ride on sidewalks. If he's in the street, even way over to his right, I'll know he's there.

If it ain't my fault I won't apologize, and I couldn't care less if he gets butthurt over my apparent lack of fake contrition. :shrug:

[taterguy]

164. Where does it say in this thread that I was in the sidewalk?

Did I miss something?

[Codeine]

165. Nowhere, and that's why I wouldn't have hit you.

You were in the road, so you'd have been fine. If I hit a cyclist it's because he or she has done something stupid and it's not my fault, ergo no apology will be forthcoming.

Reading back over it it's clear my reply wasn't well-worded; sorry! :hi:

[taterguy]

166. "Sorry", that's the word I wanted to hear yesterday

A simple acknowledgment that someone did something that caused another person pain and/or aggravation.

Why is that word so hard to say?

:toast:

[JNelson6563]

167. "Sure I saw you! Aimed right for ya!"

Would this be a good or bad thing to say in the situation you describe?

Julie

[taterguy]

174. It would be a bad thing

As would making some snarktastic reply in a thread I started after a traumatic event.

Thank you for your concern.

An increasingly annoyed Taterguy

[Dark]

168. Pro tip: If you're in an accident, NEVER SAY "I'm sorry." Ask if everyone's ok, etc., but not sorry

In many states, that's considered a confession of guilt and means the accident will be considered your fault.

That goes for cyclists and drivers.

Sad that it's that way, but we do live in a litigious society.

[cliffordu]

169. I just assume they are all trying to kill me.

Been brushed once, doored once and hit once.

And cut off a hundred times if it's happened once

[Skittles]

170. you cyclists have guts

there are so many fucking idiots on the road (example: I saw a teenage gal texting, using her elbows on the steering wheel, going 70 mph on the Dallas Tollway). Not that there are cyclists on the tollway but you get my point. :o

[AtomicKitten]

171. I transcribed an ER report about a bicyclist that was hit by a truck on Highway 1

and dragged about a half-mile. The truck driver had NO CLUE what he had done.

:scared:

[Taitertots]

176. PSA: If you get hit by a car, they probably didn't see you

You are riding fast on a tiny silent bike. Are you the type of person who rides around all the time and when something like this happens you go "How could this happen"?

Didn't you see the reverse lights when you rode behind them?

[taterguy]

181. I was doing 13 mph. I'm 6'3", weigh about 250. Not exactly fast and tiny

I saw that the car back to the end of the driveway. It stopped. I thought it stopped because it saw me. I was wrong. It backed up right as I was going by and it hit me.

So yeah, I saw the reverse lights, just in time to realize that I had no way to avoid them.

ps: First time something like that has happened in over 20 years of road riding.

[Taitertots]

185. Sounds fairly tiny compared to anything else on the road

13 mpg isn't parked, it is about as fast as most people can run.

You should accept that if you want to ride a difficult to see method of transportation that people are not going to be able to see you.

[taterguy]

186. You have trouble seeing a 250 pound man?

You should get your eyes checked out.

[Taitertots]

187. If you are riding around all fast and silently then I can't

It should be obvious that people are not going to be able to see you.

[taterguy]

188. Dude. Stop driving now.

You obviously don't have the necessary skills to safely operate a deadly piece of machinery.

Can you see hybrids?

They don't make much noise and they're even faster than a bike.

[Taitertots]

190. No chance of that happening

Are you even close to the size of a hybrid? Obviously not.

Hey, if you want to ride a silent, tiny, and fast bike then don't be surprised when people can't see you. If you want to ride you are accepting the dangers, which include the fact that cars will not see you.

[taterguy]

191. The only people that can't see me are the people that don't look

Like the asshole that hit me

[Taitertots]

192. Just keep telling yourself that

I'm sure all drivers have 100% 360 awareness all the time. :sarcasm:

Probably best if you give up the delusion that everyone can/should be able to see you all the time.

[taterguy]

194. Let's review the incident in question one more time

Broad daylight.

No vision obstructions.

No threats in front of her. No legal threats to her left.

All I'm expecting is that she look carefully to her right before entering the street.

And for the record, it's a busy street with lots of pedestrian traffic.

If there were any extenuating circumstances I'd be willing to cut them a little slack.

Obviously I wouldn't be here if I had the delusion that I'm visible at all times.

I would have been killed several thousand miles ago.

:toast:

[Taitertots]

195. Person backs to the end of the driveway and didn't see the small, silent, fast moving object

Why don't you cut them some slack because to is obvious that you are difficult to see? Why bemoan people who don't see you when you are well aware that you are difficult to see?

[taterguy]

196. Because it is not difficult to see someone my size

I'm taller than any car.

My width is about 2/3 that of a car.

There's no degree of difficulty here.

And once again, 13 mph is not fast, unless you're really stretching in a feeble attempt to win an argument.

[Taitertots]

197. Just keep telling yourself that

At least one person didn't see you. How about the people who would have killed you thousands of miles ago, didn't they see you? Seems quite obvious that a great deal of people have had difficulty seeing you.

Don't let the fact that a bunch of people didn't see you from stop you from being convinced that you are not difficult to see.

[taterguy]

200. Are you seriously suggesting that it's difficult to see someone in the situation I described?

I hope your insurance agent doesn't stumble onto this thread.

[MajorChode]

202. Yes, it is

Motorcycles are difficult to see for the same reason. Since I ride on the street I look for such things, but many people don't. That's just reality. Most auto drivers are looking for other autos. Motorcycles, bicycles, dogs, pedestrians and kids they just don't see. That's why in order to mitigate your risk, there are several techniques you can use to make yourself more visible and to see and avoid hazards before they happen. If you don't use those techniques and simply rely on drivers' constant vigilance to always yield the right of way where required by law, you are raising your risk of having an accident.

There's plenty of drivers out there who just simply do not give a shit about anyone but themselves. The talk on cell phones, text, eat, put on makeup, and finger fuck themselves while driving. If they hit you, yes it may be their fault, but you could still be 100% in the right and still just as dead.

[kestrel91316]

177. [phone]. Ditto for us frequent pedestrians. I HATE

when drivers nearly flatten me as I cross in the crosswalk WITH the signal, and their response is a cute little wave.

[kestrel91316]

178. I am beginning to think that DU has far more bike haters than even FR.

Pathetic.

:puke:

[depakid]

179. The more radical cyclists call them "cagers"

:rofl:

And many do indeed have some irrational "thoughts" about cyclists.

[MajorChode]

203. That term is also frequently used by motorcyclists

..and if I were to guess, they probably coined the term first.

[Katya Mullethov]

204. Easyrider magazine circa 1970's

Before they went PC discarding Miraculous Mutha , paraphernalia ads , beaver shots , and my business .

[Vattel]

182. OK I think I got it.

Wrong: "I didn't see you. I'm sorry."

Right: "I'm sorry. I didn't see you."

[taterguy]

184. Bzzzt

Not even close.

[tranche]

189. I really hope the assholeishness of this thread is in response to your percieved tone.

Otherwise, from reading the attitudes of our local DUers towards bicyclists I'm scared as shit. I usually take the "centrist" argument on this site, but reading the bike bashing here has me a little concerned.

[Hekate]

199. Are you okay?!

That's what I said to the bicyclist who rear-ended my car while I was at a stop sign.

I was definitely shook up, but he assured me he was fine, and in fact he talked so fast and all that I never went all the way around my car to look at the back end until I got home.... where I discovered that the left rear light had been broken on my brand new Honda. Took $200 to fix it, because it had to be taken out and replaced as a unit.

Well, that makes him a jerk and it's his bad karma.

I still wouldn't change my initial response -- cars are a lot bigger and heavier than bikes, and I always keep a sharp eye out for you bicyclists.

You take care, taterguy.

Hekate

[taterguy]

205. Asking if I was ok would have been acceptable and I am ok

It just jolted the hell out of me when it happened.