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Mother Jones: Is the BP well Unstoppable?

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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:16 PM
Original message
Mother Jones: Is the BP well Unstoppable?
http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/06/worst-already-true-BP-well-now-unstoppable

You can read the comment in its entirety here, complete with useful links, as well as all the comments (some of which dissent from dougr's claims) made in response. Sharon notes, to the inevitable question of why pass along an anonymous comment: "This one passes my smell test, which is usually pretty good - that doesn't mean I claim commenter Doug R is right - it means I think his information is interesting enough to be worth exposing to a wider audience for clarification or correction." As the Oil Drum staff explains to it's own readers regarding this post: "Were the US government and BP more forthcoming with information and details, the situation would not be giving rise to so much speculation about what is actually going on in the Gulf. This should be run more like Mission Control at NASA than an exclusive country club function--it is a public matter--transparency, now!" Amen. Meanwhile, judge for yourself:

"All the actions and few tid bits of information all lead to one inescapable conclusion. The well pipes below the sea floor are broken and leaking. Now you have some real data of how BP's actions are evidence of that, as well as some murky statement from "BP officials" confirming the same.

snip

"It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot...the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?...the more it will transfer to the leaks below. Just like a leaky garden hose with a nozzle on it. When you open up the nozzle?...it doesn't leak so bad, you close the nozzle?...it leaks real bad, same dynamics. It is why they sawed the riser off...or tried to anyway...but they clipped it off, to relieve pressure on the leaks "down hole". I'm sure there was a bit of panic time after they crimp/pinched off the large riser pipe and the Diamond wire saw got stuck and failed...because that crimp diverted pressure and flow to the rupture down below.




Maybe David Letterman was right. We should just go ahead and pave the fucker.... With BP executives as a base layer
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. I asked that question on DU a while back.
I asked, when BP finally throws in the towel and admits it cannot stop the leak, then what?

What I was trying to get at, is BP can't be trusted and is making it worse. The 'what comes after BP gives up' should have been done long ago.
Sadly, I don't think there is a 'what comes after BP gives up'.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Nobody wants to think about it. What the fuck happened to this fucking country?
We have become fucking VEAL. All we are here to do is consume until they decide they can't make a profit on us anymore.....

Flabby, weak and clueless.

We let other people run our lives. We let them shove fucking SHIT down our throats and because we have the intellectual curiosity of fucking pond scum we don't question that it could be or should be different. We are so invested in protecting our little piece of shit lives that we don't speak out in fear that they will snatch that last greasy morsel from us and we will, heaven forefend, have to take care of our fucking selves with no "Daddy" to do for us.

Fucking cattle. Sheep. Mindless shit for brains consumer bullshit. I don't care as long as I've got a caffeinated drink and a video game console.


Shit.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. >We have become fucking VEAL
Elegantly put, true, and depressing as hell.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
27. True. I've heard no one here question the official "nothing can be done" line (via BP)
just a lot of bleating about the "fact" that nothing can be done. No imagination, nothing more than parroting of whatever beams out of the teevee.
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Because there is no clue, no plan
This may well be the reason that Obama does not want to assume direct control and responsibility for stopping this crude eruption until BP finally admits that they don't have a clue of what to do to stop it. Then the federal government will step in. And I think Obama and most everyone else inside the beltway knows it, they just won't say so out loud. In the meantime the devastation to the Gulf continues unabated.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. As far as any of us know BP provides the "experts" who provide the only solutions
and they've been the only ones who were allowed to attempt to fix the problem. Why not allow non BP experts a shot at evaluating the situation and offering answers?
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not only is it unstoppable, it will continue to get bigger and bigger
Read this article this morning and it put me in a huge funk:

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-top-kill-and-every-other-top-down-leak-operation-will-fail-2010-6

Well...none of what is likely to happen is good, in fact...it's about as bad as it gets. I am convinced the erosion and compromising of the entire system is accelerating and attacking more key structural areas of the well, the blow out preventer and surrounding strata holding it all up and together. This is evidenced by the tilt of the blow out preventer and the erosion which has exposed the well head connection. What eventually will happen is that the blow out preventer will literally tip over if they do not run supports to it as the currents push on it. I suspect they will run those supports as cables tied to anchors very soon, if they don't, they are inviting disaster that much sooner.

Eventually even that will be futile as the well casings cannot support the weight of the massive system above with out the cement bond to the earth and that bond is being eroded away. When enough is eroded away the casings will buckle and the BOP will collapse the well. If and when you begin to see oil and gas coming up around the well area from under the BOP? or the area around the well head connection and casing sinking more and more rapidly? ...it won't be too long after that the entire system fails. BP must be aware of this, they are mapping the sea floor sonically and that is not a mere exercise. Our Gov't must be well aware too, they just are not telling us.

All of these things lead to only one place, a fully wide open well bore directly to the oil deposit...after that, it goes into the realm of "the worst things you can think of" The well may come completely apart as the inner liners fail. There is still a very long drill string in the well, that could literally come flying out...as I said...all the worst things you can think of are a possibility, but the very least damaging outcome as bad as it is, is that we are stuck with a wide open gusher blowing out 150,000 barrels a day of raw oil or more. There isn't any "cap dome" or any other suck fixer device on earth that exists or could be built that will stop it from gushing out and doing more and more damage to the gulf. While at the same time also doing more damage to the well, making the chance of halting it with a kill from the bottom up less and less likely to work, which as it stands now?....is the only real chance we have left to stop it all.

It's a race now...a race to drill the relief wells and take our last chance at killing this monster before the whole weakened, wore out, blown out, leaking and failing system gives up it's last gasp in a horrific crescendo.

We are not even 2 months into it, barely half way by even optimistic estimates. The damage done by the leaked oil now is virtually immeasurable already and it will not get better, it can only get worse. No matter how much they can collect, there will still be thousands and thousands of gallons leaking out every minute, every hour of every day. We have 2 months left before the relief wells are even near in position and set up to take a kill shot and that is being optimistic as I said.

Over the next 2 months the mechanical situation also cannot improve, it can only get worse, getting better is an impossibility. While they may make some gains on collecting the leaked oil, the structural situation cannot heal itself. It will continue to erode and flow out more oil and eventually the inevitable collapse which cannot be stopped will happen. It is only a simple matter of who can "get there first"...us or the well.

We can only hope the race against that eventuality is one we can win, but my assessment I am sad to say is that we will not.

The system will collapse or fail substantially before we reach the finish line ahead of the well and the worst is yet to come.

Sorry to bring you that news, I know it is grim, but that is the way I see it....I sincerely hope I am wrong.

We need to prepare for the possibility of this blow out sending more oil into the gulf per week then what we already have now, because that is what a collapse of the system will cause. All the collection efforts that have captured oil will be erased in short order. The magnitude of this disaster will increase exponentially by the time we can do anything to halt it and our odds of actually even being able to halt it will go down.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yet, BP is only drilling one relief well.
The stopped the second one a while back. Relief wells rarely work on the first few attempts, we really should have more relief wells being drilled. Each attempt that fails will cost more time and more deterioration.

Add to that the likelihood that they will have to stop all work periodically when the hurricanes come.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Yeah, I read that Saturday
Very grim indeed.
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Jefferson23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Horrifying possibility. n/t
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. If BP followed best practices it could have had the best well ever.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. and gold egg laying unicorns would fly out of my butt....
and we'd all live in the magical land of "ain't life good?"

piss....
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TomCADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Exactly, Its Not Like Simply Following Protocals Would Mean That You Could Spill Oil With Impunity..
Once the oil leak started, the sad truth is that there really is no feasible way of stopping it. Heck, people are discussing using nukes for goodness sakes.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I'm pretty sure skink had his tongue firmly in his cheek....
I was just ramping up the hyperbole...

and expressing my displeasure with the subject in general
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh it's stopable - eventually all the oil will be out.
:scared:
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Not if it's an active field where oil is still being produced,
as opposed to an inactive field, which would eventually run dry.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. An interesting graphic
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks for posting the link.
I had read that, but couldn't think of the correct term, so couldn't find the link (what can I say, I'm old!).:hi:
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Oil is produced over millions of year. If the decade it takes for the field to drain
it wouldn't possibly produce anything other than a negligible amount of oil.

Also it is very unlikely there is any substantial amount of biomass in the oil pocket that could be converted to oil.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. I think I've read this previously
Edited on Wed Jun-16-10 10:57 PM by HughMoran
It keeps getting reposted in one form or another on different blogs on the internet and reposted as if it's new. Not criticizing you BTW, I just keep hoping I'm reading something new when that familiar feeling of "hey, this sounds familiar" creeps in again.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. No offense taken: I was just going by the published date on MJ: 6-16
But I can imagine that it made the rounds pretty quickly once people figured out the ramifications....
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. The other post here is just as grim
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
14. also props to one of our own DUers/teachers that I think pieced this together
Edited on Wed Jun-16-10 11:23 PM by chill_wind
really well back on June 9 (with diagram that helps some of us visualize)

The Doomsday oil scenario: a description of what could be happening (with diagrams).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8519473

Oil coming out of the seafloor:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8549020#8549975
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thanks, I'm not always on so I miss a lot of interesting threads...
much appreciated.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. What made me think of her
was the analogy used by both her and the OP of a leaky garden hose. It makes some sense.

Thank you for the OP, TalkingDog. Grim as it might possibly be. We need to try to understand what possibilities we are in for.

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Feron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
24. Dougr's post was debunked later over several Oil Drum threads.
I really hate fearmongering.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-17-10 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. What a relief...now who is going to debunk the experts and news agencies reporting the same thing?
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/bp-admits-that-if-it-tries-to-cap-leak.html

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/evidence-points-to-destruction-beneath.html

Yeah, I got no use for fear mongering...or denial ...that's why I don't just make offhand statements without providing something beside my word.....
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