Why didn't the US accept skimmers from Norway, Sweden and Japan?

[Captain Hilts]

They were offered over a month ago.

Now, the wildlife is running out of water.

[sandnsea]

1. June 1, offers were being organized

http://coastalcare.org/2010/06/us-seeks-foreign-help-for-oil-spill-equipment/

May 17 is when offers began to come in.

Somewhere in those 13 days, the decisions about long term need were made.

OMFG. As if that was going to make any difference if this gusher didn't get stopped until August.

[Captain Hilts]

4. I could just cry. nt

[sandnsea]

18. Cry at the idiots who want to lift the moratorium

And who insist on keeping 4,000 wells but expect to not lose a single bird or fish when they leak. They're your problem.

[tekisui]

6. That was two weeks ago.

Are they still not being used?

[ShamelessHussy]

63. The Dutch offered help 3 days in. As did many other countries...

"Dutch companies that manufacture the sweeping arm system first contacted BP officials April 23, three days after the Deepwater Horizon explosion, according to Mr. Huisman, who spoke by phone from his office in The Hague Tuesday. After receiving little reply, the companies turned to his department for help in reaching out to the US State Department, Huisman says."

more...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8571316&mesg_id=8572543

[dionysus]

2. someone posted today the norwegian skimmers were here or will be soon.

[Captain Hilts]

3. I hope that is true.

It's still a month late, and I think it's too late for too much wildlife, but I'll take what I can get.

[doc03]

19. Someone posted this morning that skimmers and other

equipment from numerous countries are working in the gulf or on their way. The BS about not accepting help is just another Republican BS talking point.

[Captain Hilts]

39. I'm just wondering why it has taken two months to get it here. nt

[doc03]

46. I read that some equipment had arrived here back in May. The

Bullshit about us not accepting help from other countries is just that bullshit.

[dalaigh lllama]

47. Think of the logistics involved

I'm wondering:
1) how long does it take to get a skimmer ready to sail
2) how long to sail from some foreign port to the Gulf
3) can they sail independently across the Atlantic or do they need to be taken in tow by some larger vessel
4) if there's already 2000 ships in the Gulf, how many more can navigate

This disaster is so far beyond what I can imagine, I doubt that there's enough equipment in the world to handle it.

I wish someone like Rachel would do some research and do a show on just what is needed versus what's actually available

[Captain Hilts]

58. Yes, there are logistics involved. Yet, I wish I had read that we had

accepted the offer within days of the explosion - when it was offered.

The government has made no errors of commission - but rather, errors of omission.

BP, conversely, is making errors of commission - such as the use of dispersants.

[bajamary]

5. especially Norway

As I understand, Norway has the "state of the art" skimming systems.

Their offer came into the WH a few days after the BP spill began.

I heard that the so-called protocol said that the Dept of State had to send the Norwegian offer to the offending corporation, BP.

If this is indeed true, this is another example of how mega corps are running our country.

Awful stuff.

[Captain Hilts]

7. These things should have been here a month ago. Instead, we let BP use dispersant. nt

[amborin]

51. Dutch skimmer ships WERE here a month ago but EPA said NO:

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8303895

[Child_Of_Isis]

8. Will the skimmers get rid of the dispersment?

It's driving me nuts trying to find out if all of this oil collection is even going to work. Will the animals & fish still die after the oil is cleaned?

[Captain Hilts]

17. The dispersant makes it more difficult, I know that much. nt

[awoke_in_2003]

36. the dispersents...

are making the oil sink, making the skimming job harder. BP put that stuff on the oil to hide just how big of a problem they had.

[Child_Of_Isis]

56. Thanks for the verification. n/t

[Synicus Maximus]

9. Because of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 ( Jones Law)

which requires that that all goods transported by water between U.S. ports be carried in U.S.-flag ships, constructed in the United States, owned by U.S. citizens, and crewed by U.S. citizens and U.S. permanent residents. The purpose of the law is to support the U.S. merchant marine industry. Requests for waivers of certain provisions of the act are reviewed by the United States Maritime Administration on a case-by-case basis. Waivers have been granted in cases of national emergencies or in cases of strategic interest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920

[Bluebear]

11. What "goods" would Scandinavian skimmer ships be carrying from port to port?

[Windy]

14. Norway is in the Gulf. What is wrong with you people. Waiting for someone on MSNBC to tell you so?

Google is your friend!

[Bluebear]

15. Why are you bitching at me? Or should I say "you people"?

[Turbineguy]

33. That is simply not true.

The Heritage Foundation is out to overturn the Jones Act. They are using this as an excuse. Remember when Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to attack Iraq?

Maritime Cabotage Task Force Statement, Oil Spill
Monday, June 14, 2010, 10:19 AM
On June 11, the Maritime Cabotage Task Force issued this statement regarding the Gulf oil spill and the Jones Act:

The American maritime industry supports immediate action to address the unfolding environmental disaster in the Gulf. Federal law called the Jones Act requires that American vessels be used for domestic transportation activities in the U.S., and countless American vessels are already responding in the Gulf. In addition, we know that many other American vessels are standing by ready to help.

There are well-established federal procedures for waiving the Jones Act to bring in foreign vessels in those situations were American vessels are not available. The American maritime industry has not and will not stand in the way of the use of these well-established waiver procedures to address this crisis.
http://www.marinelink.com/news/statement-cabotage334549.aspx

Use U.S. Vessels in Gulf Spill Cleanup Says OMSA
Monday, June 14, 2010, 10:17 AM
The Offshore Marine Service Association (OMSA) released a statement saying that recent news stories have been erroneously reporting that foreign skimming vessels are not able to work on the BP oil spill clean up because of the Jones Act. These reports are incorrect, the association said. The Jones Act does not apply and therefore does not prevent foreign vessels from working on oil skimming operations in waters beyond the state’s three mile limit. In fact, a number of foreign vessels have been working at the scene for some time.

For skimming activities within any state’s three mile limit, longstanding and established law says that any such work, including the skimming activity, must be performed by a U.S. vessel, if one is available. If a U.S. vessel is not available, there is a waiver process that can be used to bring in foreign vessels. We are not yet aware of any waiver request being made because a U.S. vessel is not available. The important distinction is that under the Jones Act, foreign vessels may be used only if U.S. vessels are not available.

“Once again, it appears that critics of the Jones Act are distorting the facts by claiming that the Jones Act applies in an instance when it simply doesn’t, or where it does, not being forthcoming with the law and the facts. Worse, they are taking advantage of this disastrous situation to undermine American workers for the benefit of foreign companies and foreign workers” said Ken Wells, President of the Offshore Marine Service Association (OMSA). “But even in instances where the law does not require the use of a U.S. vessel, BP should make every attempt to hire U.S. vessels and their workers. The entire Gulf Coast and surrounding areas have been hurt by the BP spill. The seafood and tourism industries have suffered. And it doesn’t make sense now to put the Gulf Coast maritime industry out of work just to give jobs to a few foreign boats.”

OMSA, on behalf of the owners and operators of U.S. flag vessels that work in the offshore energy sector, is working diligently to make sure that the spill is brought under control and cleaned up as quickly as possible. OMSA is also making sure that available American vessels are put to work and, if a waiver is necessary, that this is accomplished quickly and effectively.

“We want to make crystal clear that in no way, shape or form are we taking any action that hampers the spill cleanup effort. However, this should not become an excuse for foreign companies to take advantage of this tragic accident for their own gain or for opponents of the law to try to undercut it,” Wells said.

The Jones Act is the common name for the U.S. cabotage laws, which say that only U.S. flag vessels with coastwise endorsements may transport merchandise or passengers between points in the United States. The original cabotage laws trace back to the founding of our nation and have served to maintain a domestic shipbuilding and maritime industry throughout our history.

http://www.marinelink.com/news/vessels-cleanup-spill334547.aspx

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[caledesi]

20. But ...but...I saw it on TEEVEE. It was on Fox! LOL. nt

[Windy]

22. so sad... so sad.... but very true! nt

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[truedelphi]

12. I believe that at this point BP intends to kill off the Gulf

The six month moratorium that is now in effect for the deep water drilling rigs means those rigs will be pulled out of our country and installed somewhere else. (At least, that is what the oil execs from Conoco, Exon, Chevron, etc seemed to be hinting at yesterday during their testimony before the House Committee on Energy.)

With perhaps BP being the only one to leave their oil drilling rigs behind. The 20 Billion a year that BP is supposedly promising for its damage will be a cheap price in order to gain the right to be the only oil company to remain in the Gudf - they will consider that as more or less their franchise fee. (And who is to say that if the RW gets in office, they simply won't forget that that was once the deal. The RW would rather ahve NBP give them one billion than some ill fisherman remedial payments to cover the costs of his ailments.)

Once the Gulf is killed off, there will be no need to have any environmental restrictions etc.

[Child_Of_Isis]

31. And since the gulf is already ruined

they can be a sloppy as they want. People will not have fishing and tourism to rely on...only corporate oil. What are they going to do? Starve, or work for BP?

Hell, why even waste money building rigs? Just nuke the ocean floor & let it flow.

Lately, I have had this horrible feeling that they have an agenda now.

[JuniperLea]

40. There would be no excuse to NOT let them drill...

If it were already dead... right?

:cry:

[truedelphi]

55. My tears join yours.

I have been getting some very ominous emails tonight.

Google "Chris Landau" + BP + Trans

Landau believes that the oil is "new oil" being created as various long chain chemicals are impacted by salt water.

Think of a birthday cake that has a layer of pudding right under the crust. BP has a oil rig (birthday candle) plunged into jsut one area of that cake. But the pudding is starting to come up from everywhere. No way to stop it.

He seems a bit out there - extra terristrials etc. But some of his descriptions are very interesting.

And it would explain why Obamma spent five minutes of his speech last night being religious. What else can he say? it is the end of our military might, as we are shit out of luck (BP supplies eighty percent of its oil to the military) It is the end of the World? Presidents cannot say those things out loud to the public.

[malaise]

13. They did from both The Netherlands and

Norway. Ignore Lady Blah Blah

[Captain Hilts]

23. I was reading Eugene Robinson, actually:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/14/AR2010061404481.html

The issue isn't what Obama is feeling, it's what he's doing. Why haven't skimmers been brought in from around the world to scoop up more of the oil? Why isn't the defense of the coastline being run like a military campaign, with failure not an option? Why is the answer to every question essentially the same -- "We've repeatedly asked BP to get that done" -- when we're dealing with a crisis that has to be seen as an urgent matter of national security and the public welfare?

...

The Swedes, the Norwegians, the Japanese and most of the other would-be Samaritans are still waiting to hear from the U.S. government or BP. Last week, according to The Post, the administration did ask the European Union to help with any specialized equipment it might have. But meanwhile, oil has penetrated the marshes of southern Louisiana and is lapping onto the beaches of Alabama and Florida. The main spill is spreading, and hurricane season is upon us.

Every available piece of equipment in the world that can vacuum, skim, scoop or sop up oil ought to be in the gulf by now, deployed under a central -- probably military -- command structure. The beaches should be defended as if from a threatened enemy invasion. This is a time for overkill, for the Powell Doctrine, for "decisive force."

There's no silver bullet that can defeat this bloblike enemy, but each drop of oil that gets removed from the gulf and its shores is a victory -- and each drop that doesn't is a defeat. It's that simple. This is war.

[Windy]

27. He's an opinion journalist who doesn't have his facts straight... nt

[truedelphi]

66. In a just & fair world, we would not just be accepting material aid from countries like Norway -

We would have in place the deep water oil drilling regs and restictions that Norway follows. Then the accident would not have happened to begin with.

That regualtory arm of government ain't never gonna happen here. Big difference between Norway and the USA -we are so corrupt on such a huge level that it not believable to most European nations.

In the USA, it is all about convincing the wee little people to be environmental and walk that mile to the store. Never mind how many houses Al Gore has, or his lack of attention to the prioritizing of important matters like the deep water Oil Rig Derricks. We are bad bad bad people because we need the cars we have to get to our jobs, then the day care centers, then to the stores, etc.

When I lived in Norway, I was amazed at how the day care centers were a walking distance away from the community college, the University and the major employers. Overall, it was shocking how well planned everything was.

[emulatorloo]

16. Per Olbermann they did accept. He quoted an article from WAPO

You can't expect Palin to

-- get her fact straight
-- make any sense.

[Windy]

24. There you go folks. Keith reported it so you can all relax!!

:eyes:

[emulatorloo]

59. LOL n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Windy]

29. Eugene is just as wrong as Palin. I don't care who the pundit is... the facts are the facts.

That is the problem with tabloid journalism.

[Barack_America]

21. Here's a fact check on this.

http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2010/jun/16/george-lemieux/white-house-refused-international-oil-spill-aid-fl/

[Captain Hilts]

28. I'm not aware of a refusal, I'm wondering why they weren't accepted sooner.

Interesting link, thanks.

[chill_wind]

30. Here's a narrative from the Dutch of their experience:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8571316&mesg_id=8572543

[Catherina]

49. *Crickets* n/t

[chill_wind]

61. Yep :-)

[malaise]

34. Ding ding n/t

[emilyg]

35. Thank you.

[chill_wind]

41. Thanks for that. "Let's tie this all together".

June 16th, 2010


Let's tie this all together. The State Department has received official assistance offers from 18 countries and another four groups. Some of those offers are vague, others are specific. Most all of them are offers to sell equipment or use the equipment.

The State Department has accepted the offers of four countries -- Mexico, Norway, Netherlands and Canada -- and says it is reviewing and considering other offers.

That's in contrast to LeMieux's statement, which is that the White House has "refused" international aid.

But it's also clear the United States has either struggled to act on offers of foreign aid, or that processing the requests has been delayed. Japan, Sweden and Norway are all prepared to send resources or manpower to the Gulf should the U.S. sign off. Other countries also are willing to help, but have been kept on the sidelines. Taking that into account, we'll rate LeMieux's statement Barely True.

We know the Koseq Dutch Sweeping Arms are finally in operation as of the past few days. It sounds like some resources from Canada, Mexico and Norway are also in use--or offers been at least been accepted-- from the same link:

"The State Department also detailed what offers had been accepted.

From Mexico -- Two skimmers and 13,780 feet of boom (accepted in early May).

From Norway -- Eight skimming systems (accepted in early May).

From Netherlands -- Three sets of Koseq Rigid Sweeping Arms, which attach to the sides of ships and gather oil (accepted on May 23).

From Canada -- 9,843 feet of boom (accepted on June 4)

[lostnfound]

54. Thank you; interesting report on this question. nt

[RedRocco]

32. it is because BP is acting like a man that's dropped a sack of coins.

A sack so big he can't pick it up by himself, but he doesn't want anyone else to help because they may take a few dimes.

[flyarm]

44. this was our governments responsibilty..we need to all stop passing the buck!

[Mythbuster]

37. Ya can't skim what's not on the surface.

The oil on the surface is minimal, the vast majority has been dispersed with chemicals making it unrecoverable and conveniently not visible. There should be far more outrage about the huge plumes of oil in the Gulf at will travel far greater distances than it would have before, then there should about a few skimmers.

[Captain Hilts]

38. They have offered equipment that sucks up stuff below the surface. Not just skimmers. nt

[flyarm]

42. because they would measure how much oil they were picking up and then the cover up would have failed

This has been nothing but a cover up by BP and our government from the get go!

[Mnemosyne]

60. Word on that, fly! knr n/t

[flyarm]

43. we were told on our Fla local news of these offers almost immediately after the Explosion!

in the first couple days and we were screaming when we were also told the offers were turned down by the Obama Admin...and there were conflicting reports..that they were turned down..or told they would get back to them at a later date.

[MannyGoldstein]

45. Because BP didn't want to pay for them nt

[howaboutme]

48. Politics or faux pas?

It was a huge mistake IMHO that we didn't get whatever help we could get and forget the ego trip of our politicians who believe that the USA never needs help --- because we damn well do.

[provis99]

50. cause 'murka don't need no help from no filthy furners, y'all.

on edit: Yay, Freedom Fries! 'murka's numnber one!

[O is 44]

52. Not true, how about you go over to WH.gov and

listen to the press briefing today, this question was asked by (Faux News) and was answered by Thad Allen.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

53. I wonder if Jones Act/cabotage may have had something to do with it

though it could have been waived.

[Captain Hilts]

57. It seems as though errors of omission have been made in dealing with this issue. Time

is everything here.

No real refusal of the equipment, but too long to get it moving here.

We're TWO months into this. I think the government's heart is in the right place but their Timex is stuck on 'slow'.

[Kringle]

62. Obama actively opposes [non-federal] oil removal

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-gov-bobby-jindals-wishes-crude/story?id=10946379

Eight days ago, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal ordered barges to begin vacuuming crude oil out of his state's oil-soaked waters. Today, against the governor's wishes, those barges sat idle, even as more oil flowed toward the Louisiana shore.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

64. That is just going to make people very angry. Not a good story and one that

Jindal and the Republicans will capitalize on later.

We just need to get that gunk sucked up by anyone who's willing to help suck it up.

[chillspike]

65. Probably because those countries are whale killers (nt)