Wow Juan Cole LOVED The Speech: "Obama Launches Green Equivalent of Moon Mission"

[kpete]

Obama Launches Green Equivalent of Moon Mission
Posted on June 16, 2010 by Juan Cole

........................

The address came as scientists revised upward their estimate of how much petroleum is daily gushing into the Gulf, deciding it is between 35,000 and 60,000. Only 18,000 barrels a day is currently being captured, i.e. between a half and a fourth of what is spewing out.

In his speech, Obama pledged that BP would set up a special fund to compensate victims of the oil tsunami now assaulting the shores of the US along the Gulf of Mexico. He promised that BP and the US government efforts to clean up the oil and said he would set up a long-term Gulf Recovery program.

But beyond clean-up, Obama seized the moment to push for a fundamental reconsideration of the nation’s approach to transportation (petroleum in the US is mainly used to fuel automobiles and other vehicles). ITN has video:

Obama insisted that there is a role for government both in regulating the petroleum corporations and in being a “catalyst” for jump-starting green energy companies, as China has. Presumably he is speaking of tax breaks, ease of obtaining loans, and other incentives. He compared a government crash program to enable green energy to putting a man on the moon.

VIDEO:
http://www.juancole.com/2010/06/obama-launches-green-equivalent-of-moon-mission.html

[Oregone]

1. Yeah, and, uh, the moon mission gave us Velcro

I can't wait to see Green Age toilet paper.

[dave29]

3. little more than Velcro, but nice sentiment.

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

6. Tang and Space Food Sticks!

(j/k)

[MyNameGoesHere]

4. I always hear this

but maybe this is more accurate?

* TV Satellite Dish
* Medical Imaging (Cat Scans)
* Telescopes (that look for cancer)
* Vision Screening Systems
* Ear Thermometer
* Fire Fighter Equipment and Suits
* Smoke Detectors
* Cordless Tools
* Aerodynamic Wheels
* Thermal Gloves and Boots
* Space Pens (That write upside down)
* Shock Absorbing Helmets
* Ski Boots
* Failsafe Flashlight
* Invisible Braces for Teeth
* Joystick Controllers
* Advanced Plastics
* Enriched Baby Food
* Better Cardiac Pacemakers
* Protective Paints
* Scratch-resistant Glasses


Read more at Suite101: NASA Space Technology Inventions and Products: Space Travel, Space Flight, and Space Exploration Equals Technology http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/nasa-space-technology-inventions-and-products#ixzz0r2sXrAnO

[Oregone]

7. Meh

I always liked silver colored braces anyway.

All those "advances", and just look at where we are today. The earth is fuckn dying. We are going to advance our way into oblivion

[Warren DeMontague]

14. Er, They left out fuel cells.

But, of course, a method of generating electricity that only leaves water as a byproduct, can't see any use for that one. :shrug:

[Oregone]

16. Electricity for what?

To drive more growth, which requires more mass consumption and destruction of the earth?


Neither here nor there....but...

I was walking back from the river bank yesterday, and I passed two First Nation guys on a dock, who were spearing at salmon with quite a crude device. Him and his friend were smoking the dankest weed without regard, just chilling in the sun. I asked them how much they've caught, and one guy replied disappointingly, "just four so far". He queried me on my success, of course. There, holding my fiberglass, carbon-fiber reinforced rod and my Abu Garcia Ambassador level-line reel, spooled with my high tech-line, I replied, "I got skunked". Now, I can guarantee that I tasted much finner pot than they did that day, but it was quick and in secret. Their lives, seeing them from the outside looking in, were without worry, unburdened by complicated and unnecessary technology. And they had no big brother looking down upon them, making sure they fit into some social mold whose purpose is about being a good producer, consumer, and progresser of human technology & development. I am sometimes but a machine existing. It appeared to me, in that moment, that they were living.

Say what you will about the poverty they may experience, and other social problems, but sometimes when you have the least, you are the most free. Sometimes all these neat gizmos we are burdening ourselves with, burdening ourselves to get, and burdening ourselves to create are all just enslaving us. And we are being chained to a way of life that is killing the globe.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. If you don't see the need for electricity, preferably from non-polluting sources, I can't help you.

I'm not sure what the computer you're using runs on, though.

Beyond that, I agree with some of what you say. But many things are not black and white. I think going to the moon was a good idea, and a net gain for humanity. Your friends on the dock might very well agree with me.

[Oregone]

32. I don't see the need to propel rapid growth that devours the environment

That was my point. Power enables that.

My computer runs on hydro. Despite going green in this province for the most part, its still allowing senseless, bubbling growth and a false economy that consumes the earth's resources and pollutes. For fallout...hell...take a look at Bear and Skirt Mountain here, which are just getting torn apart in this wave to put up large houses for well paid, efficient producers of consumer shit.


"and a net gain for humanity"

We can't even measure that really. Its pretty arbitrary. Lets see where we end up.

[DonCoquixote]

20. oblivion

I hope that if you are against all these advances, you deny their use in the future. By the way, some of these advances include the very personal computer you are reading, cell phones, and a good deal of medical technology, such as the cameras and robotics used in the more delicate surgeries, like angioplasty (so don't get a heart attack). Oh, and I hope you never need glasses, because most glasses are plastic. OH, and if your mother or sister are friend gets a biopsy for breast cancer, tell her to go rough it, because that is evil space technology too. Oh, and let's chuck Solar Power, because NASA invented that too. And if Africa wants pure, clean water, tell them to go suck eggs too.

Of course, I will get accused of not providing facts, so here are some facts I know you will ignore. It's from that government the teabaggers hate so much.

http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html#health

Now, while I dislike some people like Derrick Jensen, when he talks abou killing.

http://www.nocompromise.org/issues/26jensen.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/engel08122006.html

But I can at least respect the fact that he, like his fellow fanatics, is willing to co opt from civilization. But the people who come on DU and rant about how evil tech is from the comfort of their PCs is a joke, actually, to the people getting surgery, wearing glasses, drinking clean water, it's not funny, but then again, Derrick Jensen and his fellow Luddites would think they are better off dead anyway.

[Oregone]

21. You sound like you are wound up real tight

Forgive me if I question if the improvement of the human condition has kept up pace with the advancement of technology. You respond in a tone so close to a crucification when I ask if we are really happier as a complete society. And for sure, my premise that the earth is much closer, environmentally, to destruction goes unchallenged. Is all this "progress" worth the sacrifice? Is all this growth & development worth killing off species, forests and wetlands (and people, from sickness or resource wars)?

Its worth asking.


"But the people who come on DU and rant about how evil tech is from the comfort of their PCs is a joke"

I didn't create this world. I was born into it. And within in it, with a Computer Science degree and a programming job requiring me to spend hours daily behind a computer, I can't help but wonder if this is the "best" way for the "best of all possible worlds". Why does coming to a realization within this artificial environment, rather than from outside, actually discredit the actual content of my criticism? If anything, it should bolster it, as Ive experienced both ways to live.

You can try to emote and scream me down, but there is no denying that everywhere around us is disaster caused by human growth, development, advancement & industrialization (all aided by technological innovations). To keep on living at this same growth rate, with a solar panel instead of a coal furnace, isn't going to dramatically change the course of human history. Its not going to save the forests whose resources are needed for expansion, or keep the mercury, lead & cadmium needed for electronics out of the environment. Its not going to stop corporations from instigating war to capture such resources as lithium cheaply, all to power the planned obsolete vehicles that will need them for batteries (until the next innovation can be implemented).

We are living like a locomotive captain on speed. Forgive me for suggestion to not only slow down, but perhaps to put the uppers down. We cannot coexist with the environment, and each other, on our current trajectory--technological innovations or not.

[DonCoquixote]

22. emote and scream

The point is not to scream, the point is to be realistic. Humans are are a tool making species. We do have have fur to keep us warm, or claws to fend predators off. My beef is that when people villify tech as an absolute bad, they are going against the very thing that makes us human. Let me ask you, honestly, are you prepared to die rather than have access to surgery made possible by technology. That is not an emote, because I know many here that probably would. But if you do, there is the next question: are you willing to make that decision for someone else, and if so, on what grounds? I know the Earth needs to stop being polluted, but what is to stop people from saying "these people need to die for the betterment of the Earth?", what is the stopgap that prevents people from doing atrocity based on some distorted ideology?

There are some that I have talked to that actually would want a world where we were reduced to huts, and shamans killed humans to maintain a balance. There may have even been a point in history where that was the best thing we humans could do. But we cannot go back to the womb. Nature gave us only one tool to survive, our brains, and if we are to survive, we will need to use the tolls she gave us. The Earth will go fine without us eventually, but we will not help it along if we fail to use our mind. That is not to say we must not change the way we use technology, or even the very way we think about it. Truth be told, Oil is a technology that could have been replaced in our grandfather's time with biodiesel made from soybeans, sugar, beets and hemp, but the powers that be would not allow that. It is a not a matter of locomotives on speed, but perhaps finding something better than the train track we are on.

[Oregone]

31. "Let me ask you, honestly, are you prepared to die rather than have access to surgery"

False dichotomy. You can use technology to better the human condition through medical advancements, while still embracing no-growth, low-tech-use (not to be confused with low technology), environmentalism, and sustainable living policies. You can have "middle-ground" (more to the low tech use side) here to achieve a way of living that is different from both mass consumption and living in caves. Does everyone have to own their own vehicle (or multiple), their own 44" TV (or multiple), their own 2500 SQFT home? And by everyone, Im also referring to the emerging middle-classes in rapidly developing/industrializing nations. Well if so, this earth is a goner...only 10% of the world currently really has access to this standard of living, and many of those are working poor anyway. Its already out of control with the currently minor level of demand, and ever growing.

I think people can still have and use (and develop) high technology, but all these products for every aspect of our lives are creating ridiculous levels of consumption that conflict with a healthy ecosystem.

That aside....as to the original question, *if* doing so created a higher aggregate happiness (measurable by what?), then yes. Also, if living all alternative ways required the death of the globe, it doesn't sound so bad actually.


"if we are to survive, we will need to use the tolls she gave us"

If we are to survive, we need to be intelligent, and figure out how our economies & politics need to be structured to allow us to coexist with the environment and other humans. Simply switching to "green energy" (to bring this thread full circle) without examining the concept of "growth" & "advancement", and reevaluating the way we live, is still going to spell disaster. There will always be dangerous, dwindling resources that advancement require humans to use, and there will always be environmental fallout from rapid consumption.

[DonCoquixote]

33. false dichotomy

"False dichotomy. You can use technology to better the human condition through medical advancements, while still embracing no-growth, low-tech-use (not to be confused with low technology), environmentalism, and sustainable living policies."

Well, if you look at many people, especially Jensen, you might want to tell him that. That is not humor, because there is an orthodoxy forming that what you offered is impossible.

[Oregone]

38. Extremism doesn't do anyone any good

That said, if you were to "equalize" (or average if you will) the worldwide standard of living, it would be at the low end of what we consider acceptable in the US. Even augmenting this with technology that doesn't promote growth still wouldn't be Utopia for everyone. But if we are at a tipping point, "more", spread far and wide to China and friends, surely wont be healthy

[berni_mccoy]

12. The height of idiocy at DU. Do just the least bit of research before posting next time

You'd easily find this: http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/apollo.htm

With the success of the Apollo program, NASA delivered great progress in the fields of rocketry and aeronautics, as well as the fields
of civil, mechanical, and electrical engineering. Lesser known accomplishments are some of the many spinoffs that came from the
Apollo program—partnerships created between NASA and industry to commercialize the technologies developed for the historic missions to the Moon.

Cooling Suits Provide Comfort
Cool suits, which kept Apollo astronauts comfortable during moon walks, are today worn by race car drivers, nuclear reactor technicians, shipyard workers, people with multiple sclerosis and children with a congenital disorder known as hypohidrotic ectodermal dysplasia, which restricts the body’s ability to cool itself. +Read More

Recycling Fluids for Space Missions Simplifies Kidney Dialysis
Special kidney dialysis machines were created as a result of a NASA-developed chemical process that removes toxic waste from used dialysis fluid. The process saves electricity and eliminates the need for a continuous water supply, granting the patient greater freedom. +Read More

Astronaut Conditioning Equipment Keeps People Fit
A cardiovascular conditioner developed for astronauts in space led to the invention of a physical therapy and athletic development machine used by football teams, sports clinics, and medical rehabilitation centers. +Read More

Space Suit Technology Modernizes Athletic Shoes
Athletic shoe design and manufacturing also benefited from Apollo. Space suit technology is incorporated into a shoe's external shell, and a stress-free "blow molding" process adapted from NASA space suit design is used in the shoe's fabrication. +Read More

Reflective Materials Insulate Homes
Insulating barriers made of metalized foil laid over a core of propylene or mylar, which protected astronauts and their spacecraft's delicate instruments from radiation and heat, are now found in common home insulation. Vacuum metalizing techniques also led to an extensive line of commercial products, from insulated outer garments to packaging for foods, from wall coverings to window shades, from life rafts to candy wrappings, and from reflective safety blankets to photographic reflectors.+Read More

Apollo Life Support Systems Filter Water
Water purification technology used on the Apollo spacecraft is now employed in several spinoff applications to kill bacteria, viruses and algae in community water supply systems and cooling towers. Filters mounted on faucets reduce lead in water supplies. +Read More

Freeze-Dried Foods Preserve Nutrients, Increase Shelf Life
Freeze-dried food solved the problem of what to feed an astronaut on the long-duration Apollo missions. Freeze drying foods preserves nutritional value and taste, while also reducing weight and increasing shelf life.+Read More

Apollo-era Circuitry Preserves Freshness for Large-Scale Service
A hospital food service system employs a NASA cook/chill concept for serving food. The system allows staff to prepare food well in advance, maintain heat, visual appeal, and nutritional value while reducing operating costs. +Read More

Measurement Techniques Safely Monitor Hazardous Gasses
A hollow retroreflector, a mirror-like instrument that reflects light and other radiation back to the source, is used as a sensor to detect the presence of hazardous gases in oil fields, refineries, offshore platforms, chemical plants, waste storage sites, and other locations where gases could be released into the environment. +Read More

Lubricant Process Finds Myriad Applications
A process for bonding dry lubricant to space metals led to the development of surface enhancement, or synergistic, coatings, which are used in applications from pizza making to laser manufacturing. Each coating is designed to protect a specific metal group or group of metals to solve problems encountered under operating conditions, such as resistance to corrosion and wear. +Read More

Green Buildings Employ Space Suit Textiles
The same fabric used in Apollo-era space suits has been spun off into a cost-effective, environmentally-friendly building material. Used on structures around the world, the Teflon-coated fiberglass strands create a permanent, tent-like roof. Less expensive than conventional roofing materials, the durable white fabric allows natural light to shine through, saving a significant amount of energy. +Read More

Insulation Protects Alaskan Pipeline
Metal-bonded polyurethane foam insulation developed for protecting Apollo-era spacecraft was also applied to the Alaskan pipeline, where its temperature controlling properties were in high demand. In order to maintain its fluidity, the oil needs to be kept at relatively high temperatures (180 °F), a tall order in the Arctic. The NASA-derived insulation solved this problem. +Read More

Flame-Resistant Textiles Safeguard Firefighters, Soldiers
After a fire on the Apollo launch pad which resulted in the death of three astronauts, NASA worked with private industry to develop a line of fire-resistant textiles for use in space suits and vehicles. These materials are now used in numerous firefighting, military, motor sports, and other applications. +Read More

And this: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135690/NASA_s_Apollo_technology_has_changed_history
NASA's Apollo technology has changed history

And this: NASA spin-off
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NASA_Spinoff

[Oregone]

13. Life sure is getting better with all this stuff

I can almost smell it

[berni_mccoy]

15. Water filtration, artificial limbs, flame retardent materials...

But I guess you just don't care about the people who's lives are made better by that stuff.

[Oregone]

17. It isn't that

Honestly, I just don't know for a fact that the aggregate level of happiness today is any higher than all other times in human history. I don't know that this new standard of living isn't also spearheading the absolute destruction of the globe by creating unsustainable levels of demand and production.

All these innovations have created a whole other world and society that also necessitates the development of a slew of anti-depressant drugs to allow humans to cope with the current state of being. And even those don't always work.

Different isn't always better. Progress isn't always forward.

[MineralMan]

18. I'm sorry, but that's just moronic.

I'm sure you know better than that. How could you not? What is it that you're really trying to say?

What could President Obama do that would make you stand up and cheer?

[Oregone]

19. Its less moronic than you think

Clean energy is still energy. It is easy energy that drives growth of societies and industrialization. Humans are over expanding and pushing the earth to a tipping point, carbon emissions or not. All these gizmos still require lead, cadmium, mercury, etc, just to run. The more we increase the standard of living, is the more demand we increase for consumer goods and production. That in turn increases consumption of earth's natural resources, which pollute rivers and streams during extraction. Not to mention, it spawns resource wars for such things as lithium and the like.

Who cares if we can greenly power refrigerators in sub-sahara Africa. Then someone will want more meat in their fridge. Then we will have to deforest to raise more animals (who release methane themselves). Then we need to lay roads to transport the materials while keeping them cooled and packaged, since its more efficient to raise them in certain places, etc. This will simply cause populations to increase their rates of growth.

Are we sure we want to keep living this way, advancing at this rate, just "green"-like? Or do we want to find a more habitable and sustainable way to live. One that may include green energy, but also relies upon philosophy to tell man to slow the fuck down.

[MineralMan]

23. And your lifestyle is green in what ways?

I'll be interested to hear how you're living what you preach. We can compare our lifestyles, perhaps. You're opposed to refrigerators in sub-Saharan Africa. Do you own or have access to a refrigerator? I think there may be a moral disconnect there, don't you? I can see that you own a computer. Parts made all over the world, and plugged into the grid, I assume.

How about transportation? Do you own an automobile? What is it? I may have other questions, but the one about refrigeration in Africa particularly interests me. You don't want them to have refrigeration? Why would that be?

I also understand that you're a salmon angler. How do you get to your fishing spots? It's all very curious to me. You praise the "first americans" for their fishing simplicity and their free smoking of marijuana. What brand of fishing rod and reel do you own? Where did you buy it? Why are you not using a spear?

I'll be waiting. I won't be counting on a reply, though.

[Spazito]

24. I hope you don't mind if I wait with you?

I can't wait to see the answers to your questions although, I must admit, I really, really want to see the explanation for the non-use of a spear while fishing given the poster's views on issues such as the outrage in providing refrigeration in Africa, etc.

I am well stocked in :popcorn:, thank goodness!

[MineralMan]

26. Could you pass that popcorn over this way. I don't have a microwave

so it's been some time since I've had any. :rofl:

I do wonder about that African refrigeration thing, though. Why would anyone be opposed to such a thing? Life is tough enough over there, and food storage is very difficult. It leads to lots of food-borne illnesses. You'd think a progressive would want to help people stay healthy. And why sub-Saharan Africa specifically, I wonder.

I'm really puzzled by that one. But, I'd like to know what kind of tackle the poster owns for salmon fishing. I love fishing, and I could take a hint from him, perhaps, in case I make it up to Lake Superior to catch salmon.

I do so hope the poster will respond. I wonder if he uses "crickets" for bait...I think about these things.

[Spazito]

28. LOL! I still have some left even though, given the 'wait time' without...

a response I have eaten through a lot of my supply! I am trying to live the lifestyle espoused by the previous poster so I made sure to find an old ear of corn, dry and all, and put that sucker over my campfire 'till it popped! I am looking for a fishing spear to donate as well, no luck yet!

Here ya go! :popcorn:

:rofl:

[Oregone]

37. I have a life you know

Id rather smoke some pot and enjoy the sunshine on the beach then beckon at your every call to produce copy.

[Spazito]

39. Enjoy that beach while you can....

here is what you have to look forward to, the reality of the Province you now live in as opposed to the overblown hyperbole you are trying to sell as B.C. and Canada:

B.C. Liberals set stage for offshore oil and gas drilling

The Gordon Campbell government has never hidden its support for creating an offshore oil and gas industry. Shortly after taking office in 2001, it appointed a six-member B.C. Liberal caucus subcommittee, which included future energy minister Blair Lekstrom, to seek public input on lifting a provincial moratorium on offshore drilling.

snip

In January 2002, the B.C. scientific review panel reported that although there are “gaps in knowledge”, there was no justification for a “blanket moratorium” on offshore drilling. It noted that with “continuing commitment to ongoing principles of adaptive management and sustainable development, the existing policies maintaining an ongoing moratorium on hydrocarbon exploration and development offshore British Columbia can responsibly be ended”.

In the February 2003 throne speech, the province declared that by 2010, the government “wants to have an offshore oil and gas industry that is up and running, environmentally sound and booming with job creation”. Four years later, Neufeld told the legislature that an estimated $100 billion worth of resources under the ocean could be extracted. “But we need to actually do it in a safe manner with the correct information and the correct regulatory regime,” he stated, according to Hansard.

Neufeld, now a Conservative senator, also mentioned offshore drilling along Canada’s East Coast and in the Beaufort Sea, the Great Lakes, the North Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico. He noted that thousands of people, including many B.C. residents, board cruise ships in the Gulf of Mexico, where he estimated there were 4,000 drilling platforms. “People cruise around them,” Neufeld said. “That’s where they want to go. I’ve never heard anybody come back and say, ‘That was terrible.’ ” (The irony of this given the current tragedy in the Gulf is inescapable)

http://www.straight.com/article-323593/vancouver/bc-liberals-set-stage-drilling



B.C. is a very beautiful province but it is in spite of it's governments and many of it's populace that it remains so, at least for the moment) not because of them.

Oh, and then there is this:


BP to drill controversial Rockies site

As oil continues to gush from a BP wellhead in the Gulf of Mexico, critics say the company has quietly broken ground on a controversial project in B.C.'s Rocky Mountains.

Opponents of the Mist Mountain project say they were surprised to find that BP Canada, an arm of the BP group of companies, began construction earlier this month on an exploratory well for its coalbed methane project near Fernie, B.C.

snip


"Here they are, they've been working for nearly two weeks and nobody knew anything about it," he said.

The provincial government awarded tenure to BP Canada for the Mist Mountain project last December, over the objections of conservationists and First Nations on both sides of the border, as well as the Fernie town council.

Those critics say there is not enough environmental oversight for the project, which they believe will impact water and wildlife in the Rocky Mountain ecosystem.

more

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2010/06/15/bc-bp-drilling-rocky-mountains.html


The Shangra La caricature you put forth as being Canada and British Columbia is far from the reality and I have no doubt you know that....or maybe you don't.

[Oregone]

40. You realize Campbell is on his way out, right?

[Spazito]

41. Don't count on it....

The NDP screwed up so badly when they were in power it has not yet been forgiven nor forgotten even by those who would normally vote for them. Add to that, the majority of B.C., outside of enclaves in and around Vancouver, is, unfortunately, conservative, especially Central, Northern and Eastern B.C.

The current leader of the NDP is not swaying a lot of British Columbians to change their vote.

[Oregone]

42. Cept for the HST problem

The Liberals are lagging in the polls, and the Zalm's petition could spell bad news for the Liberals

[Spazito]

43. A couple of things about that....

There will not be an election for three years given the last one was in 2009, the HST will be old news by then and the hyperbole from both sides will no longer exist.

Given B.C. was known as La La Land when Vander Zalm was Premier, he holds little sway himself and, as to the petition, the provincial government doesn't have to do a thing with it and they will not. They are counting on three years from now the HST will be nowhere on the radar of the average citizen and other issues will be in the forefront. Given the short-term memory of voters, the odds are they will be right.

[Oregone]

44. "the provincial government doesn't have to do a thing with it and they will not"

Exactly. That is the anticipated and expected action. Hang on tight.

[Spazito]

45. Having lived in B.C. for many years....

there is no need to hang on tight. The voters there, as they are nationally, very quick to anger but equally quick to move on to the next outrage and three years is an eternity when it comes to voters retaining their anger especially given B.C. is, in it's totality, conservative in nature and in it's voting patterns. When it comes to voting, the conservative voters are not unlike the repubs in the U.S., they vote for conservatives.

[MineralMan]

27. Well, the poster said, today, that he has a nice carbon fiber

rod and an "Abu Garcia Ambassador level-line reel, spooled with my high tech-line." That's some nice stuff, for sure. Much better than my garage sale tackle that I recycle for my own use. I can't afford such fishing tackle. But I do have a refrigerator.

I'm way envious of Oregone's lifestyle. He has so much more than I do. I know that envy is bad, but at least I don't get skunked when I go fishing, so I'd put it to much better use, I'm sure. I'll let him fish "First Nation" style. :rofl:

[Oregone]

36. "I think there may be a moral disconnect there, don't you"

Yes. Absolutely. But I don't advocate keeping people down, but rather, meeting in the middle (more on their end). If the earth is at a tipping point, surely we cannot keep advancing, increasing demand, and increasing the number of people demanding this level of goods. And sure, its it fair to accept people should have it all by birthright? Perpetuating disparity would directly contradict with creating a new world that cooperates to sustain itself (IOW, agrees to a level playing field for the betterment of all)


"I'll be interested to hear how you're living what you preach"

Meh. I moved to another country (such that my tax dollars will be less likely to perpetuate growth & global exploitation), to a province with 90% renewable energy, to a no-growth, sustainable community, where I can walk everywhere I want. Oh, and I recycle.

Regardless...Im just freeing up resources for some other emerging consumers. And despite it all, Im still affected by other people not conserving. This is something governments and world bodies need to tackle. Individuals cannot do it alone.


"Do you own an automobile?"

Yes, I had to drive it when I moved, but not anymore. Its a nice used Saab I grabbed with spare change.


"You don't want them to have refrigeration?"

I don't want consumption and growth to rapidly increase and consume the globe. Whatever it takes to make that happen, so be it. I hope we ALL can make sacrifices together to develop such a way to live


"How do you get to your fishing spots?"

I walk. 3 fishing rivers are within walking distance of the town core.


"What brand of fishing rod and reel do you own?"

My dad gave me a Lamiglass rod and Abu Garcia reel his sick friend gave to him.


"Why are you not using a spear?"

Same reason I don't gill net. Im not First Nation.

[aquart]

2. Well, there's an opinion I value.

[BP2]

5. High on the Hope matrix, but low on the specifics. Is the solution nuclear, solar, fusion? Who knows

[emulatorloo]

10. It was an Oval Office to the general public speech. Not a 90 min policy speech

So far it looks like it was a generalized to-do list that will now get executed.

#1. 20B of BP money to compensate gulf residents. No cap apparently

DONE.

Next?

[zipplewrath]

8. Presumably

"Presumably he is speaking of tax breaks, ease of obtaining loans, and other incentives."

I wouldn't presume too much here. It could be cadillac taxes and mandates for all we know. Depends upon what the conservadems come up with.

[emulatorloo]

9. Guess he didn't get the memo from the Beltway Press

Thanks for the link.

[WCGreen]

11. that is what I heard in the speech, the use of a tragedy to bring about

change...

Recommend...

[FrenchieCat]

25. Also, Van Jones loved the speech.

He was on Ed grinning from ear to ear.

I love that guy. He's was so articulate and to the point.

[Number23]

29. Frenchie, do you have a link to what Jones said??

I really like him. And not just because he is FINE with a big ol' capital "F!" :)

Thanks! :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

34. He was fine on Ed!

Ed's show from today may be on Youtube......most likely? :shrug:

[burrowowl]

35. Auhhhh!

The Moon Mission was a success and had emphasis on education and can do, it got America enthused, Obama's speech was weak and he backs Charter's which many times suck money from the Ed. Budget and don't do all that great. And as for enthusiasm, ...?