Raising and Dealing with the post-Baby Boom

[Still Sensible]

generations.

A lot is being made made of the slow pace at which jobs are being created in this recovering economy. Without question more can and should be done by this administration to accelerate job growth. I particularly think the necessity and opportunity to create jobs to fix America's crumbling infrastructure is the best place to move forward smartly.

That said, I feel compelled to talk about some generalizations (admittedly) I perceive in todays job seeking and job handling environment. I have been a corporate executive for the last 15 years and am now an executive in a Native American owned company (I am caucasian, 55 years old). Let me say up front that I believe much of what I am about to describe can be blamed on my Baby Boom generation and the way we, with a lot of help from the media, corporate culture and government policy, have raised the generations that have followed.

In the last 20 years particularly I have seen an incredible deterioration of the work ethic in young people. Don't get me wrong, this is not universal and there are plenty of very hard working young people, but they are not the norm and are not the subject of this post. As for the majority of those under 30, their sense of entitlement is astonishing to me. I have seen numerous recent college graduates, as well as some without degrees, expecting a $50,000 job to start and a fast track to supervisory or management positions. They want 9-5 and "make sure the job doesn't interfere with" their life. I don't want to sound too much like a old crotchety complainer, but what happened to putting effort in your work and paying your dues? As a liberal, I believe the minimum wage should be doubled to about $15 an hour and as an executive I don't post jobs that pay less than that because I believe it is the minimum any employer should be asking employees to live on.

I will not and cannot defend any small business or corporation that pays slave wages and expects employees to go "above and beyond." But it frustrates me that when you pay someone a reasonable wage the idea of working hard, putting in a little extra effort and stepping up when necessary is largely a thing of the past.

Meanwhile, my generation bought into the proliferating, keep-up-with-the-Joneses consumer society to such an extent that it seems to me that it is impossible for a single young person to manage living on one income alone. Corporate America has created a lifestyle expectation in younger generations that is not sustainable on a single entry level income... Of course, that is because that same corporate culture, with the help of a pro-business anti-labor government, fought hard to keep the wage levels from keeping up with the expectations they created. When I was starting out, a $10 - $12 entry level job would allow you to live frugally on your own. That was in the early 70s. I believe today that is impossible.

As a father of two daughters see the effects our complicity in the environment we helped create. My daughters are wonderful young people and work very hard. One simply can't make it on a single salary and the other is barely making it as a paid graduate student.

That's enough of this rant. Oh, another thing that bugs the hell out of me is the incredibly poor verbal and writing skills I encounter in younger generations... but that's another post for a later day.

[Oregone]

1. Yes, young people suck

We only had so much to work with though, speaking in terms of our role models and teachers.

[Jennicut]

2. I am 34, a Gen Xer and I know how to read, write and all that good stuff.

I am sure you know how too.

[Oregone]

4. To be honest, no. My professors and parents only taught me how to feel entitled

Im near illiterate, and simply cut and paste my way to success when sex and showing up to work does not work. How else could the following be true:

In the last 20 years particularly I have seen an incredible deterioration of the work ethic in young people. Don't get me wrong, this is not universal and there are plenty of very hard working young people, but they are not the norm and are not the subject of this post. As for the majority of those under 30, their sense of entitlement is astonishing to me. I have seen numerous recent college graduates, as well as some without degrees, expecting a $50,000 job to start and a fast track to supervisory or management positions. They want 9-5 and "make sure the job doesn't interfere with" their life. I don't want to sound too much like a old crotchety complainer, but what happened to putting effort in your work and paying your dues? As a liberal, I believe the minimum wage should be doubled to about $15 an hour and as an executive I don't post jobs that pay less than that because I believe it is the minimum any employer should be asking employees to live on.

At least Im not a smelly dirty barefoot hippy (on most days) that doesn't work hard like the good ol generation. After all, those young uns are just going to drag our society down.

[Jennicut]

12. Some older people always put down the younger people.

I have a 14 year old girl who lives next store to me who I think is intelligent and responsible and gets very good grades in school. And who loves my kids, and is great with them. I don't see a slacker teen who is on her cell phone 24/7. I really, really hate stereotypes. I don't dislike baby boomers, I just don't get the need to lambast any of us younger then them. So younger Gen Xers suck, millenials suck, teens suck, little kids suck. Sorry, but I don't feel like telling my kids that they might as well not try because some baby boomer thinks the younger generations are idiots.

[Still Sensible]

5. I am sure you do.

In fact, most of the younger generation I see posting here would not fall into the category of those I described in the OP. For one thing, your contributions here at DU indicate that you are engaged. So many I see on a daily basis don't seem to be. Admittedly, though,if you are struggling to get by on terrible wages in the economy we have allowed to evolve, a lack of engagement is understandable.

[Still Sensible]

3. Love the snarky reply to a serious subject.

In my OP I believe I attempted to lay the blame for how we have progressed largely where it belongs. That said, I simply wanted to rant based on my own observations. There have been plenty of good role models and teachers in my generation, but I believe to a large extent we have allowed the consumer society to get away from us. Just my humble opinion.

[Oregone]

6. You are welcome

Look, each generation seems more shitty to the last, but most often its based on perception and misunderstanding. In every case, they do *look* different.


"attempted to lay the blame for how we have progressed largely where it belongs"

Lay it at the feet of the owners of capital who promote lifestyles and social patterns that promote disparity. It isn't the kids, nor the parents who are the source (those who push the first domino)


"we have allowed the consumer society to get away from us"

Did you have any choice? You are all just stupid humans. You didn't create the cheap credit policies that led to massive debt that turned a generation into indentured servants. You didn't create the free trade policies that ruined so many blue collar jobs. You just lived

[Still Sensible]

7. I don't disagree with either of those assertions

and I believe I was saying much the same thing in my OP. BTW, I was one of those hippies in the 70s, too!

[Taitertots]

8. Older people just don't get it

Huge changes in price levels and market structure have taken place.


"But it frustrates me that when you pay someone a reasonable wage the idea of working hard, putting in a little extra effort and stepping up when necessary is largely a thing of the past."
No it is not. The reasonable wage has changed to well over $30 per hour if you expect that.


Expecting a living wage isn't entitlement.


Your daughters "work very hard" and all the same problems apply exactly the same to them as they do everyone else. Except when it happen to other people it is their problems not systemic failures created by the boomers.

[Oregone]

10. "Expecting a living wage isn't entitlement."

Yup. And a living wage for someone facing $100 to $200 K in educational costs and a $300K+ home is not $25K a year. Excuse us

[TexasObserver]

9. You mean like employees who think talking on their cell phone is part of work?

I'm amazed at the number of people I see in all manner of establishments who think they can gab on their cell phone while they're supposed to be working. Or who think taking off is simply a matter of telling their boss when they're not going to be there, for whatever reason.

You are correct that the work ethic among many of those under 30 is not what it was for their parents, at least not overall, on average. Certainly, there are slackers in every generation, but the expectation many under 30 have today is that they will get paid whether they work hard or not. There's not much dedication to doing things right, or to making sure the employer gets their money's worth. I don't know any employer who would rather hire someone under 30 than over 30. The lack of a solid work ethic is a problem.

And it is not just work. It's also education. My oldest teaches at a large university, and he's a fairly young man. He's appalled at the sloppy work students ten years younger than him turn in. The value of a college education is diminishing, because passing is not difficult, as it once was. Thirty years ago, students had to be able to write to pass their Freshman year. Now, they can graduate and not be able to write in complete sentences. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not.

[Taitertots]

14. Those are some nice hypotheses you got there

Do you have anything more than your assertions to support them?

You have nothing to support your claims of decreasing work ethic.
You have nothing to support your claims educational standards have decreased.

Sounds like a older person just can't take off the rose colored glasses about the past.

[TexasObserver]

15. Those are some nice hypotheses you "have" there, not "got" there.

Thanks for making my point about the poor writing skills.

[Taitertots]

16. Good to know your positions are based on nothing

I'll know to ignore your ignorant rambling in the future.

[TexasObserver]

17. You can't handle the truth.

[Taitertots]

18. The truth here is that you don't know the difference between formal language...

And internet colloquial language. I'd better not put LMAO or you will take 5 points off.

Why don't you produce some evidence to support your assertions?

[TexasObserver]

19. Of course I do.

I also know when someone is deficient in language skills. It was germane to the discussion because I had just written about the poor writing skills of college students today, and how such skills have decline from the recent past.

I don't feel any need to prove anything to you. Persuading others is not part of my goal here. I give my opinions and don't give a damn whether you like it or not.

[Taitertots]

20. Obviously you don't know the difference if you are attempting to critique...

The colloquial internet discussion we are having. You know nothing of my writing skills other than colloquial internet discussions.


Don't bother to support your ideas. At least you know they are only opinions and not supported by anything other than your age bigotry and ignorance.

[TexasObserver]

22. Good luck with your life.

If you want to improve your station in life, you'll heed my words. If you want your future to be brighter, you'd better start listening to those who have experience you lack. You're not the first person to ride his pride into the ground.

[Taitertots]

23. Good luck to you too

I'll heed your words when you support your positions. I'll listen to any person who supports their positions, regardless of age. I've got plenty of older people who actually support their positions whose experience I can learn from.


"You'd" coming from the person bemoaning the colloquial nature of my posts.

[Taverner]

11. This is the third component of our current depression

You have a trifecta, if you will, of three market crashers. By themselves, they might register a blip in the market. But the combination is bigger than the parts.

The Baby Boomers Retiring, the housing bubble (and subsequent spending bubble) bursting and the lack of good P/E ratios.

[BeyondGeography]

13. I'm 50 and my work ethic gets worse all the time

Dealing with the same (people) shit all the time...Plus, there's no logical way out of the no-growth box my industry is in. So survival is what it's all about right now. Not terribly exciting, or interesting.

I've seen a lot of hard working kids who are, of course, a little socially and professionally disaster prone, like I used to be. I definitely don't envy their situation; this economy is going to suck for awhile. Maybe they're picking up on that, I don't know. What should be obvious is they had no part in the gridlocked employment and growth situation we're in now. They're young; have fun while it lasts. Plus, we ain't getting out of the way because our retirements are fucked. (Which is another thing they may be picking up on...).

[blue neen]

21. No.

No way.

[Berry Cool]

24. The sense of entitlement is nothing new. Every generation has it.

I remember my younger sister in the late '80s. She and her friends were still in college and horrified that I, four years older, was paying my dues at a job that underpaid me. They assured me that they would never let that happen to them. They would graduate from college and immediately move into high-paying jobs in which they would do everything for which they were educated.

They didn't. Then it was their turn to laugh at the naive saps who followed them.

[SayitAintSo]

25. Ditto on all that...

I have a similar background - see the same. One bigger issue I see though (and it will take more/deserves more time than I have now to fully explain) is how we have "dumbed down" the corporate leadership in critical areas of our big corporations. We have exchanged the operational "experts" in their respective fields for the dapper MBA types that are "all fluff / no stuff". These empty suits are making or influencing the critical decisions that lead to BP Gulf catatrophes (and certainly less impactful every day poor decisions that cost corporations/employees/customers/stockholders etc. needlessly).

I truly believe there is a big story here to be told. Anyone in corporate America has seen it first hand. The old guard of operational experts have been pushed down, out, replaced by suits that only care about short term profits (for them). The suits are never around to help clean up the messes they make - just look at mean girl Fiorina ...now running for senate with her golden parachute ...

[Cresent City Kid]

26. I've seen some of what you're talking about

but I've seen it in the last few generations. I'm 45 by the way. When I go to get gas I watch people buy a bag of chips and a bottle of water and put it on their credit card. It's not the time stuck behind them that concerns me, the technolgy makes it about as quick as cash, unlike us old farts writing checks in the supermarket. What gets me about credit card use is the disconnect between the gratification of aquiring stuff, and the work it takes to make it possible.

That's just one example, I've seen half-assed work ethic, again across generations. Silly things like having someone jam the printer because they didn't take the time to load the paper neatly drive me nuts. It's not just about working harder, it's just caring.

Okay, I'm just ranting now, but I have one more: walking. It amazes me what people define as a "long" distance for walking. Everyone at the supermarket has to create a huge traffic jam near the front of the store just for the unlikey possibility that there's a parking space less than 50 feet from the door. It never occurs to them how far they walk around inside the store. This too cuts across generational lines.