Is it possible for hurricanes to lift the oil and drop it Inland?

[Sub Atomic]

This has been in the back of my mind for a few days.

Will there be oily rain storms during hurricane season?

[hedgehog]

1. I guess we'll find out.

:-(

[geckosfeet]

5. .

[daleanime]

2. With the force of the hurricanes increasing?

Shouldn't be a problem at all.:scared:

[northernlights]

3. It won't "rain oil," but

1. the tidal surges that flood inland areas will flood them with oily water, and
2. the wind that blows water spray over land will blow oily spray inland

How far inland will depend on the strength and trajectory of the hurricane.

There's a remote possibility that with a lucky trajectory, a hurricane would disperse the oil into more open areas, where it would be diluted more and could break down more quickly. Or not.

In the end, only time will tell. :(

[WeDidIt]

Correction, it *could* "rain oil"

Hurricanes spawn tornadoes.

Have you ever seen it rain frogs and fish after a tornado picks up a pond and drops it a few miles away?

I have.

[SmileyRose]

19. I've seen it literally rain cats and dogs.

Not a pretty sight.

[hedgehog]

18. Better watch out - Obama got pilloried for saying pretty much the

same thing - mentioning the possibility that a larger hurricane would be more likely to disperse the oil out to sea rather into the marshes.

[Gman]

4. You will not see brown colored rain, nor will you see

globs of oil falling from the sky. The chemistry of oil is completely different from water. They have different boiling points, and behave differently as a gas.

But one thing I don't quite understand is the oil in plumes. They are finding traces of oil (or some kind of petrochemical) in otherwise clear looking water. If somehow these organic chemicals are actually dissolved in water, that might be what falls with the rain. But I still don't understand what's going on with this.

[Sub Atomic]

8. Could those be the result of the dispersants that have been used?

I don't have television so my knowledge of what's occurred is (quite) limited to the amount of time I've spent online researching.

Are these 'plumes' new spouts of oil coming from the ocean floor or just 'clouds' of oil (or oil-like substance) floating in the ocean?

[northoftheborder]

11. plumes

They have showed underwater photos of those plumes, and they seem to be made up of fine particles of oil substance which have undergone some chemical change, because they do not float to the top of the water. Sort of cloudy looking, although some have shown larger clumps also. It's hard to know precisely which shots are taken in the plume areas. It is unbelievably sickening looking, all of it. I hate to look at it. I'm sure it's bad for one's mental health to be seeing the evidence of this devastation all day, every day. I'm alternately depressed, angry, numb.

[Sub Atomic]

13. Thanks

[SmileyRose]

21. some of the oil coming out of the well is heavier than water

because of the other materials mixed up with the oil. A density of less than 10 means it will not float on water.

http://www.fxstreet.com/education/related-markets/oil-basis-grades-of-crude-oil/2008-12-10.html



Density is measured by API gravity, a measure developed to compare the density of petroleum with water (API > 10 means the liquid floats on water) but is now widely used to compare among crude oils. API degree is inversely related to the density of crude oil. In general, crudes of API between 40-45 degrees can be sold at greatest commercial values.


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_46/b3908079.htm


Crude Lessons About Oil
Low-quality $35-a-barrel oil is plentiful -- but refineries lack the capacity to handle it

All crude oil is not created equal. No one knows that better than the world's refiners. The markets generally track a type of oil referred to as "light, sweet" crude. But while this fast-flowing, low-sulfur variety is in tight supply and goes for roughly $50 a barrel, there's a veritable ocean of thicker, lower-quality crude being pumped out by Saudi Arabia, Mexico, and others that currently sells for as little as $35 a barrel.
Click here to find out more!


The problem is that the world can't just switch from one to the other. "Heavy, sour" oil is more complex and costly to convert into useful products such as gasoline and heating oil. And much of the world's refining capacity, particularly in Asia, simply can't process it. "There's no shortage of crude oil today," says Thomas D. O'Malley, chairman of Premcor Inc. (PCO ), a refiner based in Old Greenwich, Conn. "There is a shortage of light sweet."

The result is that the price of oil -- and of products made from it -- is higher and more volatile than it might be if there were more capacity for handling the heavy, sour stuff. In the meantime, refiners that specialize in the cheaper grades -- such as Valero Energy, Premcor, and Frontier Oil (FTO ) -- are reaping rich rewards. Valero Energy Corp. (VLO ) figures that lower-cost oil, together with higher refining volumes, helped boost its third-quarter income by $480 million. "It's a way we can increase our profits, but it doesn't cost consumers a penny more," says Valero spokeswoman Mary Rose Brown.

These higher profit margins are beginning to cause refiners to switch over existing capacity to handle the growing flow of lower-cost crude. New oil coming to the market from such places as Saudi Arabia, Russia, and Canada is increasingly of this type. But upgrading existing refineries to handle low-grade crudes can cost hundreds of millions of dollars per facility and take several years. That's a tough sell in a historically low-margin, cyclical industry. Timothy M. Donohue, a principal at Booz Allen Hamilton Inc., figures the $8 to $10 per barrel discount for heavy crude would have to remain for up to seven years to justify a large-scale shift.

[northernlights]

12. the disperant molecules are polar on one end and non polar on the other end

and so they are both hydrophobic and hydrophilic. They mix on the nonpolar side with oil and the polar side with water, enabling the two to be mixed, but not actually dissolve.

[Odin2005]

20. So they are a kind of soap?

[lfairban]

30. In a word, yes.

Perhaps, detergent would be more accurate.

See: Corexit

[peekaloo]

6. I did read that it will increase the chances of acid rain within the storm.

once the oil evaporates and is sucked up.

the storm surges on the coast(s) could be (even more) devastating.

[Mika]

7. I heard a U of M scientist say that a Cat 5 could blow residue 200+ miles inland.

And if a Cat 5 crosses over Florida after the oil surrounds the state, then the entire state could be coated with a toxic mix of oil and dispersants. :(

---

[deaniac21]

22. What about a cat 5e?

[izquierdista]

9. Unlikely

The rain from a hurricane is not sea water that it picked up from the ocean. The water has to evaporate and condense in the clouds to form raindrops. Benzene or hexane or whatever else in the floating oil that evaporates is not going to condense in the clouds and make it rain gasoline. Oh sure, the rain will be contaminated, but not to the point where your rain barrel has a layer of gasoline floating on it. I wouldn't rule out the rain barrel smelling like a gas station though (human noses are pretty sensitive). As far as the ugly brown mess, that is the less volatile fraction of the crude oil and it's not going up into the atmosphere to condense and fall down far inland. The farthest it will get is from the force of the wind, maybe a couple hundred yards onshore.

One thing a hurricane will do is to spread the oil, which will make it easier for microbes in the environment to digest it. Any bacteria or fungi in Louisiana that can metabolize oil are going to do real well in the coming months.

[Bonobo]

35. So why do tadpoles get dropped on land from normal storms?

No one is suggesting it will come in the form of rain. We are talking about the shit being sucked up into the air and then dumped.

That isn't what rain is. Different mechanism.

[Bonobo]

36. *hiccup*

Excuse me.

[Scuba]

10. There are countless documented reports....

...of hurricanes sucking up fish and other sealife and dumping them many miles inland. The oil will not have to evaporate to be drawin up by a hurricane later 'rained' down inshore.

Personally, I hope an awful lot of it lands on Haley Barbor's house.

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. Ever hear of a "mud rain"?

Neither had I , till one landed on Mobile.Al . I think it was '92 or early 93.
We in Mobile woke up to find our cars covered with silt. As in completely covered, with a fine silt.
Heavier than dust.
The weather people said on the news that a storm had blown over Texas, which was having a bad drought, and carried the dirt all the way to Mobile where it rained.
The surrounding colleges made a fortune holding car washes that day.
True story.

[Skink]

16. Texas got mud rain in 09.

I thought it had finished when I went to clean the car off. Had to do it again an hour later.

[Gman]

32. Here in Texas a couple of years ago, we had reddish mud rain

from dirt and dust picked up in Mexico and blown up here.

[lunatica]

15. Hurricanes lift boats and drop them on the land

These photos are from Hurrican Andrew

[Bonobo]

34. Exactly. It doesn't take Michio Kaku to figure out that it WILL happen.

Common sense says it will happen.

People need to start relying on common sense again instead of trusting experts to everything.

[kestrel91316]

17. Oil will not evaporate like water and fall as rain. But oil in sea water near the coast

will come ashore with storm surges and be blown around from the waves catching the wind.

How big a mess will result is anyone's guess.

[jberryhill]

24. That's not the question

The question has been asked several times, and I'm surprised at how often the question is misinterpreted.

Nobody is asking whether the oil is going go evaporate, condense, and precipitate.

The question is about it being mechanically transported by the hurricane.

Storms can pick up animals from one place and drop them in another:


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raining_animals

The question is whether this can happen with globules of petroleum.

[eppur_se_muova]

33. Of course it can. It can happen with salt water.

When hurricane winds get high enough, they "plane" the tops of the waves flat -- anything not absolutely flat has enough "sail loading" to be whipped up into the wind.

It doesn't take something as severe as a hurrican either -- I once rode a bicycle through a salt water mist a couple of miles inland from the ocean. Salt condensed as the water evaporated, leaving a film of salt. Not a happy situation if you need your glasses badly.

Basically, a hurricane can lift anything it wants to. Don't doubt it.

[Donnachaidh]

23. uhh hun, ever see the photos of TREES uprooted by strong hurricane winds?

I'd have to say *you betcha* - if trees can get tossed, tar balls wouldn't be a problem.

[jberryhill]

25. I'd bet you can get people here to say

"trees cannot evaporate and condense as rain"

it's amazing how a simple question can be so misunderstood.

[Donnachaidh]

26. I was reading some of those posts in amazement

It's very very basic physics. HOW can people get so confused about this?

[obxhead]

31. That's kind of apples and oranges.

A tree being tossed by a hurricane would technically be easier to do. Less holding it in the ground while it has a lot of surface area exposed to the winds doing the work. Oil would have to be carried through evaporation, surges, or winds blowing sea water around.

While I make no claim of knowing what will happen, I think this isn't a fair comparison for prediction. Just my 2 cents, at a devalued rate on this subject ;)

[truedelphi]

27. A friend emailed my spouse that it had rained

An oily smelling rain in New Mexico about a week ago.

Anything dispersing the oil, like the Corext product, and also just the propeller action of motor boats, aerates the oil. Since there are such huge amounts of it, this is a serious problem, and it doesn't take a hurricane to get it in the atmosphere.

[cwydro]

28. A hurricane surge can sure bring it on land.

During Wilma, I was up to my chest in the ocean in my house. Had that been oil, I would be dead now.

As would everyone else who was flooded in the Keys during Wilma.

[Azooz]

29. from another DU post:

is this even possible? "It is raining oil in Florida"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8429279