I am encouraged that feminism is being strongly supported here on DU.

[CTyankee]

My view is admittedly limited, but IMO feminist concerns are being taken very seriously. In the past, I saw posts that I considered anti-feminist and wondered if this was a growing phenomenom everywhere. I now believe that things are in far better equilibrium. Some former DUers that I suspected were anti-feminists (always suddenly "appearing" on threads about abortion, for instance) have been TS'd, and more antifeminist posts have been deleted. Alerts on feminist issues are dealt with strongly and I appreciate that.

Although not everyone here might agree with me, I think we have moved in a good direction. We are certainly not perfect, but the antifeminist sentiments have been dealt with more firmly and threads discussing feminist issues have been treated with a lot of respect.

So thanks to all, mods, admin and everybody for getting the message out: feminism is humanism.

[Robb]

1. Indeed. K&R. nt

[Orrex]

2. Broads deserve to be heard just like men.

Hardy har har.


I've likewise seen what you're talking about, and I agree that it's a general move in the right direction.



K/R!

[Dennis Donovan]

3. Yeah, ya just can't keep them dames in da kitchen anymore...

:D

[CTyankee]

5. How old are you?

The reason I ask is because you seem to have this quaint way of speaking that I hear in old guys who are a little nervous about feminism...as if they don't know if they should be supportive or should just, well, revert to a kind of jokey persona, a true discomfort level. Interesting...

[Dennis Donovan]

10. 45, but I enjoy parodying the WW2 generation...

I think I got that from Conan O'Brien (who also loves parodying previous generations). :)

[CTyankee]

14. I see these guys in the supermarket with young female cashiers.

There are fewer of them now, of course, because they have died off. But sometimes their sons are affected, so there are younger (albeit not by too much) versions of the old coots. I guess it is because their dads transmitted their fears of strong women to them and it got embedded in their natures. My son is your age. He would certainly have none of this. His wife who is 38 is a boxer! Now imagine the old coots marrying a woman who puts on boxing gloves and fights! Kinda hard to imagine as my dtr in law is a pretty blonde, no stereotype there...

[Dennis Donovan]

21. Chauvinism, like racism, can span generationally...

...although, as societal values evolve, those who might mimic their parents' values are, in most cases dressed down when exhibiting offensive traits. Not all cases, mind you, but the evolution continues...;-)

[seabeyond]

23. my father and father in law say these stupid things. they think they are funny. yet

the adults, male and female just look at them. not funny. not cute.

it is their own fear in the security and confidence of female and a need to tweak it a bet to feel the superiority in their own weakness.

my friend and i have talked about it, trying to figure out why these men do it. neither would do it without an audience.

my hubby and i have talked about it. we just reduce it to, .... they are old, they think the are funny

[chillspike]

25. I think they do it to reinforce a feeling of dominance

I think it's psychologically comforting for these old school males to take these little chauvinistic jabs at women and younger men ...It makes them feel they are the dominant male...It's very reptillian brained behavior. I sometimes uncomfortably observe it in my dad and I just sense there is a lot of ego behind it and self indulgent comforting behavior at the expense of others.

Classic example: I once was in a store and as this older couple were walking by me, I accidentally dropped an item on the floor and when I went to pick it up the man felt it was okay to say out loud in an irritated voice "Pick it up" as if I was a clown and as if he had anything to do with me. Weird. It had nothing to do with the guy, he was a total stranger but he seemed to be eager to use my little mishap as a way to exercise some kind of verbal dominance over me in front of his wife or girlfriend. In my mind I was like "What the fuck was that?" but just ignored it. I don't know if age had anything to do with it or just general outlook on life but I think some guys have this weird and archaic idea of what males should act like.

[nomorenomore08]

4. Maybe the genuine assholes simply get thinned out over time.

And that applies to many, many issues, not just this particular one.

[CTyankee]

6. Good thinking! The real assholes tend to be that way on other issues as well.

It proves my point. You can't call yourself a humanist if you are antifeminist. So these assholes revealed themselves on many issues, consistent with what I am saying here.

[pinboy3niner]

11. Good expansion on the point.

Now that I think about it, it does seem that some who are obtuse on one social issue often are the same way on at least some range of other social issues.

Good post and OP--K&R!

:kick:

[blondeatlast]

16. Good point--and thank goodness for that. nt

[chillspike]

7. OMG please it's our pleasure

I don't know about other guys but it's gotten to the point for me personally where being a feminist (and liberal) is a requirement for me to be attracted to a female...I mean, who is still falling for that cliched old conservative bimbo brained "rescue me I'm a helpless female bring me flowers and a financially draining fairy tale wedding" bullshit anymore?

[CTyankee]

9. This is really old stuff. We have been here before and we're back here again.

That stereotype you recount dates further back than you may think. Time for another "wave" of feminism.

It would have been nice to get beyond the fairy tale wedding thing and move on to hard issues such as wage disparity, the growing antichoice movement in this country that is truly scary, and backlashes everywhere against strong, progressive women who take unpopular stands in conservative areas. THIS is where we should be, not talking about the wedding stuff. As for "helpless female," I guess I haven't heard that one in a LONG time. It's discouraging to hear that. As if we haven't had tough, resilient women in our midst all along...:(

[chillspike]

13. Of course you've had tough, resilent women

I was just talking about the conservative women (or unenlightened women) who use that stereotype to advance their shallowness. In no way was I generalizing all women.
I mean, come on, even Janeane Garofalo goes off on materialistic women in her stand up.

Just like there are men who "get it" and those who don't, there are women who "get it" and those who don't.

Unless you think people who indulge in their materialistic, ego driven shallowness should be given a pass? I don't. Female or male.

[CTyankee]

17. I guess it is my "world wearyness" to see these issues come roaring back.

Maybe hard financial times will knock some sense into people and both sexes will "get it".

At the same time, I am worried that the feminist message is not getting out in sufficient strength to our girls and our boys. I have 3 granddaughters who don't fully understand what the issue is that you have brought up here, even tho they do have strong women around them.

But it's all based in materialism, driven of course by the MSM...

[chillspike]

20. I think every successive generation is tabula rasa

and if they are not taught feminism and respect in schools and at home they will just naturally go through the phases of stoopid until they learn the hard way to respect everyone. So I think, without government intervention, progress is naturally slower than we expect because learning is such a cyclical thing. One generation will grow up and finally learn the lesson's of feminism and, if it's not passed down to the next generation, they will have to slowly learn it all over again (and that means making the same mistakes over again) and go through the same stoopid phases that every generation goes through. lessons have to be retaught for each generation so that's what makes it look like progress is not being made. But I think the general trend for humanity is usually forward toward increased enlightenment. You just have to look at the bigger picture over a bigger span of time, not at the temporary steps back that occur within our lifetime, to realize progress is being made.

I wouldn't let whatever stoopid things a male like me may say in one moment discourage you. I don't think those little ignorancies (my made up word) reflect the true progress that is being made. It certainly doesn't reflect my own progress. My own progress has been toward increased sensitivity. Maybe not as fast as you personally would like, but my personal trend has been toward more sensitivity and I will keep your comments in mind for the next time this topic arises and I will make the proper adjustments. So I don't think it is as bad as you fear.

[CTyankee]

24. Thank you. That's a humanist/ feminist statement!

My husband always refers to himself as a feminist, as does my son.

[RKP5637]

8. +1000 +++ n/t

[blondeatlast]

12. Indeed. If only it were such in everyday life. It's so nice to have a place

where one can discuss such issues without being mocked.

Just another reason to thank DU founders.

[LiberalLoner]

15. I agree. I've found this place to be very supportive. n/t

[CTyankee]

19. And there has been a tightening up on antifeminist garbage recently.

But we still need to be vigilant and not backslide. It's easy to just ignore the assholes and I think some women might be afraid that they'll be told they lack a "sense of humor" and told to "lighten up." Well, that ain't gonna fly any more.

If your gut instinct tells you it's an antifeminist post, hit back strongly.

"Eternal vigilence is the price of liberty."

[LiberalLoner]

26. I will :) I've been a fighter against hatred towards women my whole life. :) n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

18. Agreed. But, "eternal vigilance......"

as in so many areas.

K & R

[CTyankee]

39. And a feminist is a humanist by definition, so there can be no argument there! nt

[amandabeech]

22. I still remember the 2008 primaries here.

And elsewhere.

[The Backlash Cometh]

27. Maybe this is the right thread to ask this question.

What the hell are gams?

[Maru Kitteh]

41. Legs. I think it's a shorthand for the gastrominicus muscle that makes the curve of the lower leg

[cornermouse]

28. You apparently have no idea what real feminism is.

Unrec.

[seabeyond]

29. i would be interested if you expand on this for dialog. nt

[CTyankee]

35. OK, I'm 70 years old, worked for the ACLU in New York and Washington.

Worked in Washington at the national hq of the League of Women Voters during the ERA campaign. Remember that? I can tell you chapter and verse about that campaign and how/why it failed.

I moved to CT and worked for an independent women's clinic that provided abortions. We had to defend ourselves against a clinic invasion and with help from the strong prochoice community in New Haven who stood arm in arm in front of the clinic's front entrance, were able to deter the antichoicers and they drove off with their signage in their back seats. But there was a contingent that was in front of the clinic on days abortions were performed and I heard their rantings and harassment of women coming to the clinic from my upstairs office. I can tell you, it inspired me to write some pretty powerful fundraising letters! A few years later I worked for Planned Parenthood of CT's state office raising money for the 18 clinics across the state to provide health care (and abortions at 4 of them) and sex education to the women of our state.

Now you tell me what I DON'T know about feminism!

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cornermouse]

42. Well...

If I was allowed to not believe you, I'd say I don't believe you but since only blind belief is allowed I can't really make any reply at all now can I? How does that go? I know. Censorship!

[JerseygirlCT]

43. Nothing you've said is the least bit helpful if what you're looking

for is a dialog or understanding.

If you're just looking for a quick pot shot, though, I guess your methods might work.

[CTyankee]

44. You are welcome to question me. PM me if you wish. I can give you the dates

of my employment at those organizations and the names of my bosses and my exact titles. You should be able to track me down and verify at least some of the factual information you would need. It does go pretty far back (I started working at the ACLU in NY in 1973; I retired from PPC, now PP of Southern New England, in 2004).

[SidDithers]

89. Good reply...

much more than the single-line attack deserved.

:applause:

Sid

[LWolf]

30. I'll be encouraged

when the anti-teacher, anti-public education, and anti-union sentiments are gone.

[seabeyond]

31. +1. nt

[CTyankee]

38. It IS very sad and discouraging to find that stuff on DU.

Sadly, we have had this campaign against teachers, public education and unions far too long in our public discourse. I think the younger DUers might not be old enough to remember the days when all of these subjects were treated with a great deal of dignity and respect.

A true feminist would not take stands against them.

[intheflow]

59. Yeah, them and the oil apologists, too. n/t

[intheflow]

60. Yeah, them and the oil apologists, too. n/t

[freddie mertz]

32. The worst I saw recently was the explosion of support for the Stupak amendment.

This burst out right after it was included at the last minute in the House HCR bill, and BEFORE the president expressed his own discomfort with it.

A number of the posters in that wave walked it back a bit after that, but the whole thing left me flabbergasted.

PS. I haven't checked, but I am sure that a lot of those folks are still here, posting frequently.

[LiberalLoner]

33. Another thread that upset me was one where junior high school girls were being

forcibly groped and harasssed and so many guys posted along the lines of, "boys will be boys, nothing should be done, you women are too sensitive, get over it, men like boobies." It sickened me. It made me realize how deeply entrenched the notion of male privilege is. How most men think it really is okay to take sex from women even when women are unwilling. As long as it's not rape in a back alley with a stranger using a knife. That's wrong. But date rape, acquantance rape, groping a girl in your school? All just boys being boys and we womenfolk ought to get over it.

[CTyankee]

45. Wasn't anybody TS'd because of that?

I would wonder why, if they were going in directly the wrong direction from the platform of the Democratic Party on abortion...

[saracat]

54. But remember Stupak passed the house! How can you TS folks for

supporting what our reps voted for? I actually had to "prove" to a poster that choice was in our platform. The poster insisted true "liberals" were anti-choice. She was Pro-life and didn't believe me till I posted the section from the platform, and she was not alone in that.
I attended an event with Gloria Feldt not long ago and there were some younger women on the platform and I was astounded how little respect they had for Feminism and how little they valued the concept of choice, and yet they claimed to be Feminists.It was really quite scary. Sort of like Palin now claiming to be a Feminist. Frightening.

[CTyankee]

55. If choice is part of the Democratic Party platform then you are perfectly within the guidelines

to strongly oppose the Stupak amendment! It is a discussion within the party obviously but you are correct in upholding the official policy!

We can't be afraid to voice our opinions! We must be strong. We don't have another party to support us so we MUST win back our own party members who haven't understood the message. This must be re-inforced...

[Odin2005]

73. That REALLY pissed me off!

:grr:

[LeftyMom]

34. Since when?

I guess it's a matter of perspective: I'm regularly surprised by the depth of anti-woman sentiment here and the longevity of posters who spout it.

[CTyankee]

37. I hope you are alerting on them regularly when they pull that stuff.

One poster, who shall remain nameless, was FINALLY given the pizza when I (and others I suspect) alerted on him every time he posted antiabortion shit. He would just appear out of nowhere when an abortion thread was posted. It was his M.O. I learned to look out for him, so I was "cued" each time. It's a good strategy. Nobody can be everywhere. We all have to be part of the solution.

But I admit I haven't followed each and every thread on feminist issues. I take you at your word and will work harder to make a stand.

Again, let me stress right now that we should NOT be afraid when these people tell us we lack a sense of humor and need to lighten up. The words "lighten up" in that context are suspect in and of themselves...

[saracat]

46. I think folks try but there has been a lot of mocking on women's issues here

There was a lot of defense of Roman Polanski and there was post attack of one of his underage victims in the traditional way using the old arguments blaming the victim. There actually was one poster who doubted a woman "could be raped" and another who assured me that there were "worse things that could happen". The support for Stupak and the defense of throwing women under the bus for HCR was astounding.

Many folks think choice isn't part or shouldn't be part of the Democratic Platform and many defend anti-choice democrats. I don't consider that support for feminism.

I alert when I see them but some are just accepted as a diverse opinion, and often they are posts by women.

There are fortunately many loyal decent Feminists, both male and female on DU to help crush some of this thinking but unfortunately, no one can be everywhere and a lot of that thinking remains. I am grateful to those who continue to speak out for Feminism but sad that they should have to defend themselves even here.

[seabeyond]

47. +1. nt

[CTyankee]

50. Saracat, please keep on going on this! Alert when you see it, speak out on the the thread.

I know you do but it looks like we are in for a fight, if we didn't already know it!

Keep on, keep on. I will too!

[CTyankee]

65. On the issue of abortion we have to be careful in this way: if a woman here on DU

says "I am personally opposed to abortion for myself," then that is her choice, which is what being prochoice is all about. Bristol Palin made that choice, regardless of what we think of it. It is entirely different from the issue of whether Roe should be overturned or watered down. The inroads on a constitutional right must be vigorously opposed, even if the "right" (in tattered form) still exists.

Men who say they are personally opposed to abortion must be asked what that means. If they mean Roe must go, then that is one thing. If they say it is a personal opinion but they will not go against the woman's right, ultimately, then that is another. A bright line must be drawn.

[saracat]

66. The difference is whether someone like Bristol palin ought to be allowed to force her choice on

others.The same situation exists with her Mom. I am fine with any choice a woman makes but not with having them force other women to make the same choice.

[CTyankee]

67. You are absolutely right! Bristol got her choice. How is it she gets to choose

somebody else's? Same for Sarah.

[riderinthestorm]

94. There are posters on DU right now who believe anyone who gets an abortion is a murderer

and should be prosecuted as such. One in particular is a long time poster. I've alerted on her but the mods do nothing.

[musette_sf]

70. + 1 nt

[saltpoint]

48. A kick and a rec not only for the sentiment and points expressed but

also because the messenger walks the walk.

You rock, CTyankee.

:thumbsup:

[CTyankee]

51. Thank you, Saltpoint. You are so encouraging to this noble cause!

And you, sir, rock as well...:loveya:

[McCamy Taylor]

49. Lot of lip service given to feminism at DU, and yet....

Two years ago it was considered the height of political correctness here at DU to call a major female candidate for president a "bitch", a "witch"...and worse. Remember how Randi Rhodes called her a "fucking whore"? And DU cheered. I am amazed that DU can pat itself on the back over this. I would cite examples, but the moderators would consider that impolite.

Impolite. Yeah. Right. From the folks who brought you "fucking whore" as political discourse.

[saracat]

52. I remember that. I was stunned. I have refused to listen to Randi since then.

[Mimosa]

91. ^ Me too ^

I supported Obama early on but the hatred directed towards Hillary was just plain WRONG.

[CTyankee]

53. We can't give up. It isn't hopeless. We can change things here.

Let's start again...

[BoWanZi]

56. Kind of an observation but I really don't consider abortion a feminist issue but rather a core issue

It stands alone like gun issues, unions, gay rights, etc. Feminist issues to me are ones like equal pay, non-discrimination for hiring issues, etc. Abortion is too important to me to be pushed under the encompassing umbrella of feminist issues.

[CTyankee]

57. In my long life it has been THE feminist issue, a first among many.

Without choice, women are constrained and cannot make real decisions in their life choices. It is basic. It also goes to the moral agency of women to make up their OWN minds about the abortion question. It is of primary importance to the feminist cause because it goes to the core of our existence.

[BoWanZi]

58. Agreed but that is why it should stand alone as well. Just too far important.

[CTyankee]

64. Abortion rights simply must be at the core of feminism. Feminism is dead without

it. The two are inexorably linked. Why? Because both are inexorably issues of the moral agency of women. If women don't have the basic right not to have the government decide when and whether they will have children, we can't expect other advances in the area of employment, for example, or any other economic or legal issue. If you sign onto support of a woman's right to choose, you have automatically signed on to support feminism.

[lumberjack_jeff]

69. Agree. Privacy and reproductive choice should be a human right.

Choice and privacy are core issues.

[petronius]

61. I'm not a feminist, but

- OK, actually I am, just thought that would be funny. :)

[William Z. Foster]

62. I disagree strongly

The overt misogyny has been eliminated, yes, but the pervasive undercurrent of male bullying and male domination persists in a less obvious, but therefore more corrosive and destructive form.

Sexism, like racism, is rarely discussed here at all in any depth. I don't think silence about a social problem means that it has been solved or has disappeared, especially since it is an enforced silence.

Sexism, racism, and homophobic bigotry are as pervasive here as they are anywhere else in society, they just are well disguised. Upper class people, and people who identify with the upper class, are good at disguising their bigotry as part of conforming to the manners and decorum of gentile society. As liberalism and the party become more and more gentrified, we are seeing this effect more.

[CTyankee]

63. All the more reason to push forward on exactly the issue you cite.

It isn't just sexism, either. There has been plenty of anti-semitism, anti union and anti teacher sentiments that have been "disguised,"

This puts the burden on us,,,you and me...to stand firmly against such bigotry, doesn't it? We can't fold our arms and sit back and decry this. Action is required on our part.

I look forward to a DU where there are active voices that continue to point out bigotry where it is found...and having those voices prevail!

[lukasahero]

68. Most of the people I know who considered themselves feminists are gone

They were TS'd.

While I agree there have been several tombstones recently of people who were rabidly anti-feminist, they were TS'd for other reasons, not their views on women.

I appreciate your post but I don't believe DU is more supportive of women's issues than in the past. We just speak less of them now.

[musette_sf]

71. and others have left of their own volition,

being tired of the battle.

[CTyankee]

74. It's disappointing to fight the same gd battles year after year. but

then I remember that Jefferson said "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." So I guess this whole thing IS eternal...

I think we need to stand and fight, tho, and not give up. What better a place than at DU? I don't know of another Dem website that holds the array that DU offers, plus the chance to engage on feminist issues and perhaps change some minds. I don't believe in just giving up. At least we have some support here...

[seabeyond]

78. rabidly anti-feminist, they were TS'd for other reasons, not their views on women

this is the bottomline of it. you are right

[Odin2005]

72. Sadly, there are a few posters here that think date rape is OK.

:puke:

[CTyankee]

75. Have people alerted on them?

It's worked for me in the past...even got one TS'd (tho not by myself I am sure).

[Odin2005]

79. I'm sure they were.

Though most of them are still around.

[CTyankee]

81. Speaking from my own experience with one particular poster who eventually got TS'd

and it was over an abortion rights thread, it takes a while and some dedicated effort to spot them. They can be very clever...not showing too much "leg" and taking their shots very carefully. However, eventually they trip up. Our job is to be eternally vigilant and not let them squirm away. If you notice their M.O. you can pretty much predict their next move and get on top of it...

[Silent3]

77. Are you talking about genuine approval of date rape...

...or a difference of opinion over what constitutes date rape? A difference of opinion about relative responsibility in situations where both a man and a woman are being irresponsible, and both are under the influence of alcohol and/or other drugs?

[Odin2005]

80. It was people saying it is OK to rape a passed out drunk woman and similar....

...situations.

[Silent3]

76. OK, I guess I can't resist stirring up a little trouble...

...in a thread where everyone is congratulating everyone else posting here, and decrying unnamed others not making a peep in the thread, unnamed others who keep DU from being absolute feminist heaven.

In pursuit of the laudable goal of gender equality and support for women's issues, I do think some people on DU occasionally err on the male-bashing side of things. Yes, there is a real thing called male bashing.

Just saying that, however, I can already hear the angry retorts that I would even dare mention such a thing. There seems to be a distorted logic that just because men typically have it better than women in our society (and they do, overall) that this means men should just shut the fuck up about anything anti-male, as if men are obligated to quietly endure any anti-male issue until such a time ever comes when all men could claim an overall state of oppression.

Post a news story where a woman uses physical violence against a man, and there will be a lot of "You go girl!" cheering for the woman "standing up" to the man, almost without regard to the specific details of the story. Cutting off male genitalia is always good for a laugh, for instance.

One woman assaulting one man is one woman standing up for all women.

Post a news story where a man uses physical violence against a woman, and not only is the reaction that this is the most heinous thing possible (perhaps short of child abuse), but no matter how specific the reasons for the one man in the hypothetical news story leading to the attack of one specific woman, the story will be interpreted by many DUers as men, in general, repressing all women, in general. The idea that the man could possibly have been justified, or at least understandably pushed over the edge when he ideally should have been more controlled, would hardly ever be considered, no matter the details of the story.

One man assaulting one woman is all men assaulting all women.

I remember one specific DUer (finally tombstoned after quite a while) for whom practically every issue in the world was a matter of power and dominance. Agree with her, and you were her wondeful, enlightened friend. Disagree, and you were The Oppressor, almost certainly a white male Oppressor, and her attitude and language toward you became immediately venomous. I haven't seen too many as bad as her in a while, but shades of that attitude do occur with other people who post here.

[CTyankee]

82. Why don't we ALL simply publicly renounce the use of criminal assault?

As far as I'm concerned, that would be just fine...

As for speaking up/not speaking up, when do you win if you don't speak up against bigotry? And if I and others encourage feminists to speak up, how is that bad, in your scheme of things? How has
being silent gotten women the vote, legal contraception, reproductive choice, wage equality, equal treatment under the law, etc? Follow you own logic here and you will see the fallacy of it.

[Silent3]

83. Did I say anything you did was bad?

That you shouldn't speak up? Was there anything in what I posted that recommended anyone "being silent"?

[CTyankee]

84. Well, you were the one who said you wanted to "stir up a little trouble."

What trouble did you have in mind?

[Silent3]

85. My point was that sometimes "feminism is supported"...

...translates to male bashing being encouraged. Which has nothing to do with shutting anyone up, just criticizing some things that are sometimes said, a bias toward casting woman as victims and men as perpetrators, where striving for equality for women pushes some people too far in the opposite direction.

The internet seems to promote a huge, stupid confusion between criticizing what people say and trying to silence the people whose words are being criticized.

Person A: I believe in X.
Person B: I think X is stupid.
Person A: Why are you trying to silence me!?

Stupid, but sadly predictable.

[CTyankee]

86. You have constructed a straw man argument.

Nowhere in this thread did anyone say what you have fabricated. If you detect such unfair male bashing, I hope you will speak up. Otherwise, just "stirring up trouble" on this thread is, well, just trying to "stir up trouble." Please feel free to start your own thread about unfair male bashing and all its ramifications and please go over my thesis here, and the responses to it, carefully for any "suspect" characterizations of men.

[Silent3]

87. My first post was certainly related to the topic of the OP.

Since your post was about general conditions on DU regarding feminism, and my post was also on that topic, bringing up a negative side to the phenomenon you were praising, that's certainly on topic.

Your response to my post contained the strange but common weird refrain about someone, me in this case, trying to silence someone or something when nothing of the sort was being done.

My response to that post of yours addressed the general phenomena of the confusing between criticism and censorship. That's certainly a bit off topic from the OP, but reasonable in the flow of conversation starting from your post, unless you think people shouldn't defend themselves if that defense requires addressing an attack which is also off topic.

Where's your problem? Do you think an OP establishes an inviolable narrow universe of discussion, and that no one can bring up even closely related phenomena without specific examples occurring within the particular thread that follows from the OP?

I will start my own thread if I feel like. Similarly, so long as I am acting with DU guidelines, I will also respond to existing threads, as I see fit, if I feel like.

Do you have a problem with that? Do you have any criticism of anything I have posted thus far that makes any logical sense whatsoever, and that doesn't come from weird ideas about the limitations of thread discussion or from your own imagination about what I'm saying or intending?

[CTyankee]

88. Well, you can say what you please and I can too.

You prefaced your concern by stating you were trying to "stir up trouble." Your words, not mine. I take you at your word and as I say, if your real purpose is to stimulate a thorough discussion of "male bashing" and support for criminal assault in the name of feminism, you need to develop your thesis more fully and present it for discussion. If you deem it so important, then it would seem logical that you would start a new discussion thread on it.

[Silent3]

90. "support for criminal assault in the name of feminism"

Huh? Where, except from your ass, did you pull that out from?

The "stirring up a little trouble" bit, which seems to have grabbed your focus so completely, was just a bit of flippant verbiage -- my way of acknowledging that there are posters on DU, like on most of the Internet, who could start a feud over "have a nice day", much less anything that almost certainly bound to rub a few people the wrong way. You do seem determined, however, to construct a mountain based on that mole hill.

[CTyankee]

92. Well the following is a quote that came from within you, not me.

"Post a news story where a woman uses physical violence against a man, and there will be a lot of "You go girl!" cheering for the woman "standing up" to the man, almost without regard to the specific details of the story. Cutting off male genitalia is always good for a laugh, for instance."

Gee, I don't know. If that's not criminal assault, what is it?

As for my making something out of your words about stirring up trouble, your telling me that you meant it only in jest and you were not serious would be helpful. I would then put it in the perspective of a joke on your part...

[Silent3]

93. Violence is mentioned there, yes...

...but where the hell is the SUPPORT for it?

I suppose I should thank you, however. You are living up to my expectations for overreaction, black-and-white thinking, and poor reading comprehension. Well done.

Edit: I forgot to mention stunning illogic.

[CTyankee]

95. I think your complaint was that women were supporting such violence and

when called on it would turn and accuse their accuser of being an anti-feminist. My response was a pushback on that notion.

I started this thread on a positive note and some people supported my contention and others did not. Fine. Fair enough. Not everyone has to agree with me. But only you took it to this place and while you are perfectly within your rights to do so, I was commenting on it and I don't think it is what you wanted to hear, hence your discomfort.

As for my reading comprehension skills, perhaps I'll take another look at that Honors status on my Master's Degree in Liberal Studies to see if it was a mistake...

:rofl:

[Silent3]

96. Your credentials don't impress me in this instance.

Quite smart people still get blinded by preconceptions and do stupid things. Besides, a degree in Liberal Studies can often be a reward for fuzzy thinking. ;)

[CTyankee]

97. MALS degrees differ with different schools.

What you might call fuzzy is actually a pursuit of elements in the finest tradition of the Humanities. Thus, my studies included the arts, philosophy, religion, economics, political science, sociology, creative writing and history. If gaining perspectives outside the realm of the "practical" Master's degree studies makes for fuzziness, well that's your loss of keenmindedness, not mine.