Economic recovery isn't going as smooth as we were led to believe

[MadHound]

Numbers are out for May retail sales, and they are down, down, down:
"The 1.2 percent plunge in retail sales was the largest drop in eight months."
<http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Retail-sales-drop-12-percent-apf-1435105020.html?x=0&.v=8>

Not to mention that overall unemployment is still running at 16.6% and people are desperate for jobs.

The current crop of college graduates are hitting the labor force and there is nothing, nothing out there for them. I just got my teaching degree, and there are no teaching jobs available for me within a thirty mile radius. I was speaking with another graduate who just got their MBA, and can't find a thing. Her 29 year old college educated fiance is seriously contemplating going into the Navy in order to provide for his family. That's just sad.

Meanwhile the Gulf fishing industry has collapsed, and Gulf oil industry might soon follow.

Our so called recovery is a jobless one, and frankly it is starting to look more and more like we're going to get a double dip recession instead.

When you don't have plentiful jobs, our consumer based economy doesn't run right. People don't spend, they hunker down instead, and a vicious circle takes hold of the economy and savages it for years to come.

This is looking more and more like it is going to be a lost decade unless Obama and Congress do something more to create jobs besides hiring census workers and encouraging the jobless to join the military. What we need is something more on the scale of the WPA and other Roosevelt era jobs programs, rather than stimulus bills that contained ever more tax cuts.

[sakabatou]

1. This just in, water is wet

[BeFree]

2. Tradeoff

We will seize all of the money we can from BP and distribute it to millions of unemployed.

BPs billions, once freed up and spread out, will help the economy in many ways.

[MadHound]

3. I truly hope that you aren't serious about that plan

Because somehow I don't think it's going to come through.

[BeFree]

6. It's only money

We spent more than that propping up the banks... and for what?

Redistribute all assets and future income from BP assets to the people of the Gulf Coast harmed by BP and it might work out.

But BP may not be worth what needs to be payed out, eh?

[notesdev]

4. If we liquidate the whole company and get full price

that works out to maybe $300 per person. On the order of the first "tax rebate" stimulus under the Bush regime.

In hindsight, how much did that help us?

[BeFree]

5. Right, not nearly enough

We may have to seize more than that.

Would $10,000 per person SAVE AMERICA?

[Statistical]

7. Have you thought that through?.

You can't generate wealth by seizing assets. I mean if you could then we could all just be robbers and steal from each other and everyone gets rich. You steal from me, I still from Skinner, Skinner steals from you. Round and round and ???? somehow we all end up as millionaires.

If you seize BP assets you are simply moving wealth. One person gains, one person loses. Net-Net nothing has changed. Actually the net effect is a reduction in overall because of loss in asset values in the chaos.

So you get $300 but a pension fund loses $2 billion (their stolen BP stock) and has to cut payments to retirees by an equal amount. You can spend a little more, but retiree can spend a little less. Net-net nothing has changed.

Of course like you said $300 per person wouldn't be nearly enough so now you just want to seize assets left and right from dozens of companies. :rofl:

[BeFree]

9. They call it taxing

It happens all the time.

And only those at the top of the pyramid become millionaires. That is the reality.

Now what we do is take BP for its assets. And use those assets to produce oil.
Actually, since we own the Gulf oil, it's gonna be even more profit for us.

Damn, why didn't someone think of this sooner?
Could have saved us from invading the Middle East and all that death over there.
And now, here.

Here, because, if it wasn't for profits, this well may have never blown out.

[Statistical]

11. Pensioners are not at the top of the pyramid.

Pension funds own the majority of BP stock, thus pensioners will be the ones most affected by your stupid scheme.

Making money by stealing someone else's money. :rofl:
In related news Obama signs the BeFree Stimulus bill with goal of increasing robberies 5000% to boost economic output.

[BeFree]

12. Heh

The shareholders are hurt, badly, already. Hopefully, they took my advice and sold out long ago?

Besides, the shares owned by others, are not assets of BP. So we wouldn't seize those, even tho we could.

What's beautiful is that once we own BP, stock value will go up, just like GM.

And we can profit off our oil that BP is stealing (under contract, of course) from the US.

This really looks like a great business plan for the US. A great deal of $$ could be ours.

[Statistical]

13. Are you high?

If you seize without compensation roughly 1/3 of BP assets the value of the company will go up? On what planet does that happen.

"Besides, the shares owned by others, are not assets of BP. So we wouldn't seize those, even tho we could."
The shares are worth money based on the underlying assets. It would be like me burning your house down and saying don't worry you still have the paper deed so it won't go down in value.

The stock value will go up like GM

Shareholders lost everything when GM collapsed. The "old GM" is a penny stock now. Only reason it isn't 0 is because some people like to gamble day trade.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MTLQQ.PK

[BeFree]

14. No

But I want blood from BP. Not really blood, but all of it's money.

BP deserves to die. It is a murderous company, and it must die a corporate death.

My advice is sell, sell, sell, if what you say has any value.

But sell anyway!!

[Statistical]

15. Corporations aren't alive they can't die or be hurt.

They simple are a mechanism of ownership.

If BP is seized (and it will NEVER happen) it would simple mean massive losses at hundreds of pension funds and tens of thousands of pensioners would get a letter advising them their benefits will go down next year a reduction income that many can neither control (pensioner can't sell BP) nor afford.

That is all. You will never see BP bleed, however you might get to see a pensioner take out a life insurance policy and put a bullet in his brain so his wife has enough money for dignity in her final years.

YAY!!!!!

[BeFree]

17. You have quite an imagination

The pensioners whole lives depend upon BPs share price? OMFG!!

What damned world do you live on? You can have it. I'll take the earth. Earth First!!

[Statistical]

18. BP makes up 1 in 6 dollars paid to pensioner in UK.

How many Americans do you think could handle a 1/6th reduction in their pension benefits?

[BeFree]

20. That's the tradeoff... risks

BP destroyed a fair portion of the 'pension' of our Gulf.

What price do you put on that death and destruction? Can you even begin to establish a price?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

21. "What will we tell the Pensioners!?!"

What will we tell the Pensioner's Grandchildren?

:think:

[BeFree]

23. I know what we tell them...

...BP made a promise!!!

[femrap]

8. Someday we will look

back on these days and realize they were the beginning of The Greater Depression.

The banks pushed all of their toxic investments onto the Sovereign Nations. There is nowhere else to place them. All of the Accounting Rules were placed on hold so no one could see how bad the balance sheets are.

Five banks control 90% of the Derivatives....which have never been brought under control.

If you can't eat it or clean with it, people aren't buying it.

It's going to get much worse.

Grow a garden.

The party's over.

[glitch]

10. The system doesn't need a patch or even a reinstall.

We need to switch to a different operating system.

[femrap]

24. Yep!

I wouldn't mind living like Sweden.

[LoKnLoD]

22. except

Except over 2 million people dropped over $500 for an Ipad in the last few months. Consumerism is still alive and well.

[femrap]

25. And we have 300

billion people. And many of those who did buy one just got hacked....bummer.

I don't think 2 million is that many. I bet Corporations bought many of those for their precious little VP who say BAAAAAAAAAA!

[flyarm]

16. What?? I thought there were numerous posts here today telling us all how great the economy was ??

Were they all wrong?? lol..or were they talking points?..likely..I am sure..

Seriously , I feel so sorry for young people today..they got fed a bunch of hope and changey crap..only to find their future not anywhere to be found.

I am seeing my friends kids graduating college with no jobs and moving back home with mommy and daddy..and mommy and daddy have to keep supporting them..if they can..with no relief in sight.

I know through my life there have been good times and bad..this time it is particularly bad..but what do I know..I am one of those "OLD" people no one wanted to listen to a couple years ago!! So my sympathy has it's limits.

[blindpig]

19. The capitalists are trapped by the contradictions of Capitalism

Their own success dooms them, they have been so successful at manufacturing that there is insufficient profits in it so they cast about for new money makers, S&Ls, housing, tech, exotic finance devices and now education. Then the run those into the ground, yet they are so wealthy none of this really affects them, we are another story that is none of their concern. They will run the biosphere into the ground too if we wait around too long.

[Subdivisions]

26. Nice how this was reported only after the markets closed for the weekend. n/t

[MadHound]

27. Actually I heard this news this morning,

But you know the markets, a little bad news about real world finances isn't going to stop them from trying and pump up that bubble a bit more.